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The same strawman argument. Yes he was a man. Move on. This argument is missing the target everytime. It is why I do not read your posts because it is an essay with the same message, “Jesus was a man”. Get over it. No one disagrees. Lol.
But do you believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh?
Do you believe that he is the Word of God?
Do you believe that the Word became flesh?
I do not think you do.
You say his name is Jesus and the Word of God, yet you say he is Jesus, but NOT the Word of God.
More holes than a sieve.
Proclaimer
You
Berean, again you are doing exactly what Satan wants you to do, preach a Jesus that is “different” then we are.
Strawman argument. Berean, myself, and others are not denying that he came in the flesh, lived as a man, was of the seed of David, etc.
If this is your counter argument, then you guys have lost.
Of course you didn’t just lose now, but years ago when you started attacking the truth and scriptures regarding the origin of the man from Nazareth.
Me
I don’t Know why You speak to me like That ???
Berean, in not talking to you like that. I was talking to Gene and Co. Maybe you are aiming your above reply at Gene?
Yes, He had the nature of God as opposed to being THE GOD Because there onely ONE true Living God, AND THIS IS THE FATHER.
Wow great. I believe that too. This is an important truth that the Father reveals.
Proclaimer, this is not a strawman argument because you not only believe Jesus came in the flesh , but you believe he can from another existence as whatever, you have never told us what that was, because you have no scripture support for your theology. Our argument is not about Jesus just comming in the flesh, it is about he never preexist as “anything” else, before his birth on this earth. You seem to have missed that part, which is at the heart of what we are saying. We are saying Jesus created “NOTHING” not only in the past but did no miracles “himself” while on this earth either.
We are saying Satan want’s people like you and others here to believe Jesus preexisted his birth on this earth , and in doing so they ““SEPERATE THEMSELVES FROM HIS EXACTNESS”, By seening Jesus as not just a ordinary human being like the rest of humanity, but a preexisting God, Angel, or in your case a “whatever”. We are saying he is not the “word” of God, mentioned in John 1, but the fulfillment of the word of God, he was God’s word comming into fulfillment, we are also saying when Jesus said the words he was telling us was “not his words” , but the words of him who sent him”, he actually meant what he said, something you people deny.
The Jesus you people preach is not the Jesus of scripture, the Jesus of scripture was a “man” who came into his “only” existence , as a second Adam (a real human being), exactly as we are in not just “some” way but in “every way”. You people have taken Satan’s bait, hook line and sinker.
So please don’t give us this “strawman” argument crap. This is far from a strawman argument, it is about the very heart of Satan’s, doctrines of Seperation. GO READ 2THS2, and this time try to think about it, because you are also turning a man into something else besides just a true human being, who has been perfected by God the Father, as a example of what God the Father can do for us all.
You like they Proclaimer have turned “the image” of the “man” Jesus as something other then just a real human being, by adding all kinds of false teaching about who he was and is just as they do.
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Jodi
“He was made in the likeness of man, for even though he knew no sin, God made him to be sin for us.
He was found in fashion as a man when he was numbered with transgressors.”
Words OF Jodi but not words OF God
The Words OF God:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:1-In the form OF God(v.6)….see John 1:2
2- The kenosis(v.7a) He emptied himself
3- made in likeness OF men(v.7b) (see ALSO John1: 7)
Hi Jodi,
YOU: As said, Paul does not speak in Colossians 1 of separate instances.
Let’s read hereunder
THE VERY FIRST INSTANT!
John1:1IN the beginning was the Word, (THE SON OF MAN TO BE AS A SPIRIT) and
the Word was with God,(THE SON OF MAN TO BE, ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE FATHER Hebrews1:3)
and the Word was God. ( THE SON OF MAN TO BE, THE FIRST PHYSICAL EMBODIMENT OF GOD, IN JESUS CHRIST BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.) Well clear in
John 17:24 Father, I will that where
I AM, (SINCE THE VERY FIRST INSTANT IN JESUS CHRIST)
they also whom THOU HAST GIVEN me may be with me;
that they may see MY GLORY WHICH (SINCE IN THE VERY FIRST INSTANT)
THOU HAST GIVEN ME, (AS GOD’S EMBODIMENT IN JESUS CHRIST)
because thou hast loved me (ONE SUBSTANCE WITH YOU AND YOUR EMBODIMENT)
BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD.
2The same was in the beginning with God. (IN THE SECOND INSTANT)
3All things(physically in the Son of Man as a spirit, ETERNAL LIFE,) were made by him: (the Son of Man to be, SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev.13:8
and without him (the Son of Man as a spirit, eternal life)
was made nothing that was made. (PHYSICALLY! well asserted in
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over ALL FLESH, that he (THE SON OF MAN) may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.)
Confirmed in John6:27 Labour not for the meat (PHYSICAL FOOD) which perisheth, but for that which endureth unto life everlasting, which the SON OF MAN will give you.
For him (THE SON OF MAN AS A SPIRIT) hath God, the Father, sealed. (AS ETERNAL LIFE OF THE PHYSICAL CREATION)
NOW, HEREUNDER JODI, PAUL SIMPLY CONFIRMED THAT JESUS, THE SON OF MAN WAS
IN MORE THAN ONE INSTANT
Colossians 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
IN THE ABOVE HE IS ALIGNED WITH John 1:1
THE VERY FIRST INSTANT,
AS THE PHYSICAL EMBODIMENT OF GOD.
PRECISELY THE KINGDOM OF THE SON ALL IN JESUS CHRIST BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
THE FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE.
16For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him. 17And he is before all, and by him all things consist.
IN THE ABOVE, Jodi, Paul IS ALIGNED WITH
John1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
AND CONFIRMED THAT JESUS WAS IN THE SECOND INSTANT
Now to
18And he is THE HEAD (THE SPIRIT) of the body, the church,
WHO IS THE BEGINNING( OF ALL BEGINNINGS)
the firstborn from the dead; (ORIGINALLY SPIRITUALLY DEAD,
ALIVE ALL IN HIM, the man born again on his resurrection. John3:3)
that in ALL THINGS he may hold the primacy:
(THE FIRST OF ALL THE FIRSTS)
19Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father,
that all fullness should dwell;
20And through him(THE SON OF MAN)
to reconcile ALL THINGS unto himself, ( JESUS CHRIST GOD AND FATHER OF ALL THE PHYSICAL CREATION, John17:2, Ephesians 4:6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.)
making peace through
the blood of his cross,(OF WHICH THE FATHER COULD NOT ACHIEVE BY HIMSELF EXCEPT IN”THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN)
both as to the things that are on earth, and
the things that are in heaven.
Jodi in the above Paul simply declared that “THE WORD” Jesus the Son of Man commenced
HIS THIRD INSTANT
OF HIS OWN KINGDOM FOR THE LOVE AND PLEASURE OF
GOD THE FATHER.
Now the third INSTANT is well confirmed in
John 5:19 Then Jesus answered, and said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you,
the Son cannot do anything of himself, (THUS, CREATION/REDEMPTION, IT IS NOT A PROCESS OF ONE ENTITY,
ONLY IN “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN,
DESPITE HE OFFERED HIMSELF AS THE ONLY RANSOM AND DIED IN EXCHANGE FOR
THE HUMAN RACE, BUT IT IS A PROCESS IN FULL HARMONY WITH
THE FATHER; SPIRIT OF CREATION,
THE WORD; FLESH OF CREATION, and
THE HOLY GHOST; SOUL OF CREATION! ASSERTED IN
1 John 5:7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.
(IN JESUS CHRIST) 8And there are three that give testimony on earth:
the spirit, (OF THE FATHER) and the water, (OF THE HOLY GHOST) and the blood:(OF “THE WORD”) and these three are one.
(IN JESUS CHRIST)
Cont: John 5:19 …..
but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doth, (HENCE:
THE FIRST INSTANT, John1:1, THE SECOND INSTANT, John1;2,3 and THE THIRD INSTANT Colossians1:15-20)
these the Son also doth in like manner. (in full harmony with God)
HERE IT COMES Jodi,
20For the Father loveth the Son,
and sheweth him all things which himself doth: (THROUGH HIM/”THE WORD” JESUS) and greater works than these will he shew him,(EMBODIED IN HIM)
that you may wonder. 21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and giveth life:
so the Son also giveth life to whom HE WILL.
EVEN RAISED HIMSELF UP, AFTER HE GLORIFIED AS
GODMAN ON EARTH ON HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS, AS
JESUS CHRIST, WHICH THE FATHER COULD NOT DO, CONSEQUENTLY:
22For neither doth the Father judge any man,( SINCE THE FATHER IS ONLY A SPIRIT, and NOT GODMAN YET) but hath given all(PHYSICAL) judgment to the Son.(GOD OF ALL FLESH, John17:2
MANIFESTED PHYSICALLY IN THE TRUTH ON EARTH! BY WHICH TRUTH, THE FATHER WAS KNOWN AND ACCEPTED AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST, WHOM HE HAS SENT) ATTENTION NOW:
23That all men may honour the Son, as they honour the Father.
He who honoureth not the Son,
honoureth not the Father, who hath sent him.
ASSERTED IN:
1John5:20 And we know that
the Son of God is come:
and he hath given us understanding that we may know
the true God, and may be
IN HIS TRUE SON.
This is the true God and life eternal.
NO DOUBT
JESUS CHRIST IS OUR LORD GOD AND FATHER OF
ALL THE HUMAN RACE. John 20:17
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Berean,
Sorry it’s taken me two years to reply back on this, lol!
Jodi
“He was made in the likeness of man, for even though he knew no sin, God made him to be sin for us.
He was found in fashion as a man when he was numbered with transgressors.”
Words OF Jodi but not words OF God
The Words OF God:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:1-In the form OF God(v.6)….see John 1:2
2- The kenosis(v.7a) He emptied himself
3- made in likeness OF men(v.7b) (see ALSO John1: 7)
ME:
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
What I said still stands and it comes directly from God’s word. Do we not gather scripture together for true understanding?
“He was made in the likeness of man, for even though he knew no sin, God made him to be sin for us.”
“He was found in fashion as a man when he was numbered with transgressors.”
The anointed Jesus of the Spirit without measure was he who was in the form of God. He certainly was humbling himself going to the cross as he was mocked, beaten , spit on and nailed for being declared a transgressor, being found in the fashion of sinners, made in the likeness of men, when he was not, he was the righteousness of God.
Hi Jodi
The anointed Jesus of the Spirit without measure was he who was in the form of God.
me
Do you mean that THE TIME Jesus man and anointed with the Spirit without measure IS THE TIME HE WAS IN THE FORM OF GOD?
Hi Berean,
Yes sir, that is correct.
Of course now, from upon his resurrection having received the promised Spirit, he is the invisible image of God.
Hi Jodi,
You: Of course now, from upon his resurrection having received the promised Spirit, he is the invisible image of God.
Me: Apart from your carnal mind and reasoning which are simply WRONG, may I ask you:
IS JESUS THE INVISIBLE IMAGE OF GOD ONLY? I MEAN
IS THAT ALL?
ALSO
YOU: from upon his resurrection having received the promised Spirit,
Me: Are you in a position to clarify yourself? I mean
WHEN DID JESUS RECEIVE THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT?
WHY DID JESUS THE SON OF MAN RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT?
WHAT THROUGH THIS PRECISE TASK ON JESUS’ RESURRECTION, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT JESUS RECEIVED, HUMANITY IN JESUS THE SON OF MAN
ALREADY ACQUIRED IN HEAVEN? 1 Peter 1:3-5
NOW JUST TO HELP YOU OUT TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH READ:
Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, (JESUS CHRIST) beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called, 2With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. 3Careful to keep THE UNITY OF THE SPIRIT (OF CHRIST) in the bond of PEACE. (Isaiah 9:6) 4 One body and one Spirit; (of Christ) as you are called in one hope of your calling. 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism. (IN CHRIST)
6 ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL, (THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE John17:2)
who is above all, and through all, and in us all. (till the last day of the Lord, when God would be all in all as JESUS CHRIST)
Asserted hereunder:
1 John3:2 Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know, that, when he shall appear,
we shall be like to him:
because we shall see him as HE IS. ( JESUS CHRIST)
Cont. Ephesians 4:7But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of
THE GIVING OF CHRIST!
8Wherefore he saith: Ascending on high, he led captivity captive; he gave gifts to men. 9 Now that he ascended, what is it,
but because he also descended FIRST into the lower parts of the earth?
ME: Jodi in the above it is evidently clear THAT JESUS ALREADY GLORIFIED AND HAD THE HOLY SPIRIT John13:31-32, BEFORE HE RESURRECTED.
10He that descended is the same also that ascended above all the heavens, that he might fill all things. (IN CHRIST Colossians 1:15-20, 2:9) 11And he gave some apostles, and some prophets, and other some evangelists, and other some pastors and doctors, 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry,
for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13Until we all meet into the unity of faith, and of the knowledge of
THE SON OF GOD
, unto a perfect man,
unto the measure of the age of THE FULNESS OF CHRIST;
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Carmel and All,
I am going to bring this back to the Thread Topic.
Matthew 1 directly says this is the GENESIS of Jesus stating he is the son of Abraham and David and then giving us Joseph’s ancestral line! Mathew not only uses GENESIS/ORIGIN at the beginning of listing sons from Abraham to David and so on, but also afterward he uses GENEA/Begotten/Fathered/Of the Same Stock, to clarify even further that Jesus is of the seed of Joseph.
My position, giving me other passages of your interpretation that then make Matthew into a liar, makes your interpretations false. I on the other hand can give clear interpretations to those other passages, that align with many other passages including keeping the truth of Matthew’s words in tact.
Please directly address Matthew 1:1-17
THIS, “Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon….. and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; And Jacob begat Joseph ” IS THE GENETIC LINE OF JESUS, making him biologically the son of Abraham and the son of David according to Matthew.
Hi Jodi,
YOU: “Abraham begat Isaac; ……..
Me: Now show me the scripture where Abraham had intercourse with Sarah please: To be more precise read:
Genesis 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife: who conceived and brought forth Cain, ……
I am waiting!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel,
Go read Genesis 17, Issac is the biological son of Abraham and according to Matthew, Jesus is a biological son of David and of Isaac and of Abraham through Joseph.
Jodi says “…according to Matthew, Jesus is a biological son of David and of Isaac and of Abraham through Joseph.”
Jodi is repeating a serious error and was shown otherwise years ago or so. Matthew says no such thing in the genealogy. Of course she may have just forgotten that it was clearly laid out to her that the pronoun “of whom” is in the feminine gender and is pertaining to Mary.
Matt 1:16And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.
Sorry Jodi but you really need to stop claiming this.
Hi LU,
Thanks for joining the conversation my dear!
Please address this specifically, I’d greatly appreciate it.
Matt 1:1 The book of the generation (GENESIS/ORIGIN) of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; 4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;..going all the way to Joseph.
You don’t read direct scripture that states your are being given THE BOOK OF Jesus’s ORIGIN declaring him to be a son of Abraham and David, that then goes through a line of their biological sons starting from Abraham and going to Joseph, and then conclude that Joseph represents an “adoptive father”. That is being delusional, completely denying the clear given text.
Matthew even reiterates Jesus’s genetic heritage through the book he just gave, by right after calculating it according to generations, starting from Abraham.
YHVH had promised that He would be a Father unto a son of David who would come from David’s sons.
Hi Jodi,
Where does Matt 1 say that Joseph begat Jesus?
You said:
YHVH had promised that He would be a Father unto a son of David who would come from David’s sons.
Mary’s father was Heli of the line of David.
Hi Jodi
Berean :Do you mean that THE TIME Jesus man and anointed with the Spirit without measure IS THE TIME HE WAS IN THE FORM OF GOD?
Jodi :
Yes sir, that is correct.
Of course now, from upon his resurrection having received the promised Spirit, he is the invisible image of God.
No Jodi, before HE WAS IN THE FORM OF A HUMAN SERVANT, HE WAS “IN THE FORM OF GOD”
👇
I)Who, being in the form of God, thought it not difficult to be equal with God:
II).[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
III).
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
TO ALL…….Jesus said (not me)……Rev 22:16……“I Jesus have sent mine angel (messenger) to testify unto you these things in the Churches. I “AM”, the root and the, OFFSPRING” OF DAVID.
Jesus seems to not have a problem with his ancestry Now does he?, You either believe what Jesus said or not! CARMEL, LU, BEREAN, all deny what Jesus himself said.
Paul tells us (not me)…..acts 2:30……“THEREFORE (David) being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of “HIS” “LOINS” according to the “FLESH” , HE (GOD) would raise up Christ (an, “anounted” one) to sit on his (David’s) throne.
verse 31…..”He (David), seening this before, spake of the resurection of Christ, that his “soul” was not left in hell, (the grave), neither did his “FLESH” , see corruption.
Question is do you people “truly”believe what is plainly written?, Trying to deny plainly written scriptures only show your own corruptions in you, IMO.
Peace and love to you all and yours……….gene
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