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Thank you for your response.
Do you realize that pronouns in Greek are written in a way to show if they refer to a female or a male? That word “whom” refers to a female, so, it does not refer to Joseph, it refers to Mary. See the “RelPro-GFS” under “whom” below in Matthew 1:16? That “F” stands for “female.” If it meant Joseph, it would be written in a different way even though the Strong’s number (#3739) is the same and it would have a “M” under “whom” for “masculine” as you can see it does in the second example in Matthew 11:10 where it has “RelPro-GMS.”
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/1-16.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/11-10.htm
The “whom” in Matthew 1:16 is clearly not referring to Joseph.
I hope that helps,
LU
Hi Berean,
YOU:
why do you want to ignore what Jesus was before he was born on earth?
the bible testifies that he existed before his birth on earth.
He was “The Word of God” who was with God and who was God. This is how John calls it.ME:
Any passage that you give me that you say teaches pre-existence, I can show directly through scripture, surrounding text of that passage, as well as other passages that are to be directly applied to it, that such an idea is totally false. Not only that but it brings in so many contradictions as well as making other passages into lies.
Berean, Jesus was certainly given the title of “The Word of God” among many titles like “The Lamb of God”, but to force that title to mean he existed as someone else’s spoken words, is one of the most absurd totally nonsensical ideas I have ever heard. Does Jesus literally exist as a LAMB because he was given the title “The Lamb of God”? of course not, and that is just as nonsensical as saying he literally exists as someone else’s spoken words.
Meanwhile, we are given scripture that God’s WORD that He spoke to the prophet Isaiah concerning a son of Jesse being anointed with the Spirit and sent out into the world, was made true in the FLESH of the man Jesus of Nazareth, and people witnessed his glory as he had been begotten of God’s Spirit without measure filled with grace and truth to do the great works of God our heavenly Father.
Meanwhile, we are given scripture that he who was sent, this anointed Jesus of Nazareth, speaks God’s word to us BECAUSE he had received that Spirit without measure.
Meanwhile, we are given that Jesus was raised first begotten of the dead, a beginning a firstborn overall creation, raised in GLORY, power, made incorruptible with ETERNAL LIFE, thus the exact fulfillment again of God’s WORD made true in the flesh.
The WORD “ETERNAL LIFE” we are told was WITH God , spoken by Him, given as a promise, FROM THE BEGINNING, even before the world began. This God Himself is eternal life, the source of all life.
Berean, we are likewise directly told that from the beginning God declared this END, where a man would come an execute God’s purpose for creating heaven and earth in the first place , which God had said He had created ALONE, BY HIMSELF, so that all flesh could come to worship Him, so that He could be all in all, where He gives mankind a new heart of flesh and places His Spirit upon them causing them to walk in all His ways.
Jesus is a son of David and is a Son of God ACCORDING to The SPIRIT by his resurrection from the dead, where he sits on his father David’s throne ACCORDING to the FLESH.
Berean, it is biblical fact that just as the WORD of God of ETERNAL LIFE was WITH the Father from the beginning, also WITH the Father from the beginning was the WORD of the man Jesus who would make that word true, him being the first to receive that word, and him being responsible through God to bring it forth for all. Nothing would have been made that was made without him.
Hi Lu,
YOU: Do you realize that pronouns in Greek are written in a way to show if they refer to a female or a male? That word “whom” refers to a female, so, it does not refer to Joseph, it refers to Mary.
ME:
LU, thank you for pointing this out, but unfortunately for you that doesn’t change the context of what Matthew is directly telling us.
So let’s go over it again,
In Matthew we are given the SAME genealogical book twice, long version 2-16, and short version of the SAME lineage in verse 17.
Matthew tells us that this IS the BOOK OF the GENESIS/ORIGIN/LINEAGE of Jesus stating that he is a son/offspring OF Abraham.
Fact, this same lineage the first time given goes from Abraham and leads to Joseph.
Fact, the second time this same lineage is given it goes from Abraham to Christ.
Therefore also total FACT is that in the book of the lineage of Jesus Christ that Matthew gives us, Jesus is the offspring of Abraham through being the offspring of Joseph, who was the husband of Mary to whom begat Jesus.
HOW PERFECT IS THIS TRULY!!!
Thanks Lu!
For we see that Matthew from verses 1-17 establishes for us EXACTLY who Jesus is the offspring of according to both mother and father, where then also established through his father we are given how he is the offspring of David and Abraham.
Hi Jodi,
YOU:Any passage that you give me that you say teaches pre-existence, I can show directly through scripture, surrounding text of that passage, as well as other passages that are to be directly applied to it, that such an idea is totally false.
Read hereunder Jodi,
John1:9 That was the true light,
which enlightens
every man (PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE)
that COMES into this world.
10 He was in the world,
and the world WAS MADE by him,
and the world knew him not.
THE ABOVE Jodi, IS ONE OF THE MOST GENUINE PIECE OF SCRIPTURE WHICH DECLARES
JESUS’PRE-EXISTENCE!
ANSWER: IS THE ABOVE DECLARATION
FALSE?
Now in verse 14 when it says “the Word was made flesh,” The Greek word is ginomai, which means
“to become.” It means a change of condition.
It assumes a previous existence.
The preexistence of Jesus Christ
is taught in John 1:14 when it says,
“the Word became flesh.”
Does it say that back in John 1:1 when it says, the Word was God? That He became God? No. It does not.
It says He was God, and there is a big difference.
In John 1:14, however, this Word, “became flesh,” which means that
He was in existence before He became flesh and that He was not flesh before He became so.
So what was He before He became flesh, Jodi?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel…..GOD”S “spoken” WORD , became (came to be) , the flesh man Jesus, NOT THAT JESUS HIMSELF WAS GOD’S WORD . He was the one God spoke about to us, through the Prophets, that came to “Be”. Or came into his only true existence, GET IT? God and his words is one and the same thing, just as your words and you are the same thing. No one can come into existence and be your word, nor can anyone come into existence and be God the Father word either. You are what your are , Jesus is what he is, God the Father is what he is also, and he Gives his glory to no man, Not even Jesus. He may give us Glory, but it is not his Glory, as the “only” true God” that’s for sure.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Thanks for your response. I have got to give you credit for trying but at the same time missing why Jesus is in the lineage of Abraham to Joseph (according to the flesh). It was because Jesus was born of Joseph’s wife, Mary.
If Joseph was not married to Mary, Jesus’ mother, Jesus would not be in Joseph’s lineage.
Matthew has a pattern throughout the list of generations…so and so begat so and so…UNTIL the list comes to Joseph, then the pattern stops. It does not say or imply that Joseph begat Jesus. Instead, the pattern changes and emphasizes that Joseph was married to the woman of whom Jesus was born.
Eye opening isn’t it.
Jesus was never said to be begotten of Joseph in the list within Matt 1.
LU…..JESUS clearly said this, “I am, the root and offspring of David”. SO Jesus seemed to think he was from the linage of King David right? Now we all know a women cannot of her own produce a Male, it takes male DNA to do that right? WE KNOW SHE WAS FOUND WITH CHILD BEFORE SHE HAD SEX WITH Joseph right? Do you think God could not take MALE DNA, AND apply it to the womb of Mary, because he wanted Jesus to look a certain way, as described in scripture? Isa 53:2 . In scripture all linage given come through the Male , even Eve”s linage came through Adam, and God took that DNA and altered it to form a Women.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS , that Jesus was a 100% male human being, no scripture says that God took a preexisting being and “morphed” Him into t h e womb of Mary, and that is an apsolute fact. You or anyone who believes Jesus was a God or “devine being” of somekind, have yet to produce one scriptures that says that. If our scripture give his linage from Adam to Joseph why are you people so much against that, is God unable to put in Mary DNA from the linage of Jesse and David, is that impossible for God to do. JESUS sure did not think so, saying he was exactly that saying three time he was, and the Apostle Paul saying Jesus was from the loins of King David also. Not to even mention the many others scriptures given in the old Testement, that supports that also.
So we have all these many scriptures that show his linage, you have none that show he was a live being, preexisting his birth on this earth. Not so much as one that show any activity of a preexisting being, much less a God, that was to become the human Jesus.
LU, think about this, what would Satan love you to think about Jesus, it would be that Jesus c was not truly a human being “exactly like we are” why?, because it would cause you to think you could never become “exactly” like him, that is exactly why SATAN created these “DOCUMENTS OF SEPERATION “, he dosen’t want us to think Jesus was and is “exactly” in every way like we are. Because Jesus demonstrates to all human kind who God the Father can bring us all into “perfection” exactly as he did Jesus.
LU all those who try to make Jesus appear different are doing the very work of Satan, even though they do not realize it, 2ths2.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Gene,
YOU: Do you think God could not take MALE DNA, AND apply it to the womb of Mary,
ME: DO YOU THINK GOD REQUIRED ANYTHING OF THIS SATANIC CURSED EARTH TO PRODUCE
HIS OWN SUBSTANCE AS THE FLESH OF HIS SON?
Ezekiel 37:7And I prophesied as he had commanded me:
and as I prophesied there was a noise, and behold a commotion: and the bones came together, each one to its joint.
8And I saw, and behold the sinews, and the flesh came up upon them:
and the skin was stretched out over them,
but there was NO SPIRIT in them.(OK GENE, THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE, NOT THE DNA, THE SPERM and THE OVUM.
FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO GOD AS
GOD IS SPIRIT)
9And he said to me: Prophesy to the spirit, prophesy, O son of man, and say to the spirit:
Thus saith the Lord God:
Come, spirit, from the four winds, and blow upon these slain, and let them live again.
10And I prophesied as he had commanded me:
and the spirit came into them, and
they lived:
and they stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
Gene DID GOD NEED ANY DNA, SPERM OR OVUM TO PRODUCE THE ABOVE ARMY?
ISN’T IT AS CLEAR A S CRYSTAL THAT
ONLY THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE, NOT ANY DNA, SPERM OR OVUM OF THIS WORLD.
YOU and JODI, ARE SIMPLY
STAGNATED
UNTO THE CARNAL PROCESS OF THIS SATANIC CURSED EARTH,
WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH JESUS’ FLESH UNIQUE PROCESS, THE FATHER’S SPIRIT SUBSTANCE Hebrews 1:3
CONFIRMED BY JESUS IN
John14:30 I will not now speak many things with you. For
THE PRINCE (SPRIT) OF THIS (PHYSICAL) WORLD COMES, and
IN ME (SPIRIT OF THE FATHER) he hath not anything.
Gene Isn’t
sufficient
the above scripture, written in simple plain clear English,
in order for you and Jodi to get it into your CARNAL MIND,
that Jesus/lineage is not ATTRIBUTED to the
PHYSICAL as such BUT to the
SPIRITUAL, hidden in the physical?
like a treasure hidden in a field, mentioned in Matthew 13:44.
PHYSICALLY, JESUS’ LINEAGE IN MATTHEW HAS FOUR CONTAMINATED WOMEN BUT
JESUS WAS BORN IMMACULATE, IN A UNIQUE DIVINE BLOOD OF
OF THE HOLY GHOST
NOT OF ANY HUMAN
BOTH MALE AND FEMALE SIMPLY
SO NO FLESH WOULD GLORY IN GOD’S EYES.
READ gene and discern the truth:
1Cotinthians 1: 20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world?
Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21For seeing that in the wisdom of God the world,
by wisdom, knew not God,
it pleased God, by the foolishness of our preaching, to save them that believe.
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men;
and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For see your vocation, brethren, that there are not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble: 27But the foolish things of the world hath God chosen, that
he may confound the wise;
and the weak things of the world hath God chosen,
that he may confound the strong.
28And the base things of the world, and the things that are contemptible,
hath God chosen,
and things that are not, (SPIRITUAL and HIDDEN)
that he might bring to nought things that are: (PHYSICAL and TANGIBLE)
29That no flesh should glory in his sight ( NO DNA, SPERM, or OVUM)
attention Gene and Jodi
BUT HIS SPIRIT HIDDEN IN
” THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Gene,
The bible doesn’t say Jesus was born, and later became the first Christ ???
“The bible” instead says:
“Christ was born” – whom they named “Jesus”: because he shall save his people
The bread from heaven (the spirit of Christ) was born in the house of bread (Bethlehem)
“Beauty” who’s name is “The Branch”: Jesus of Nazareth as Nazareth means: the city of branches
Gene,
Jesus, according to the flesh has one biological human parent, (Mary).
Jesus, according to the flesh has one legal but not biological human father, (Joseph).
The conception in Mary was from the Holy Spirit. Mary is a distant offspring in the line of David, therefore so is her firstborn son, Jesus. Her conception was supernatural and different than the natural way.
Blessings,
LU
Carmel……Go figure this out , Levi 17 :11, “life”, is in the blood”. if you don’t eat (take to yourself) the flesh and drink (take to yourself) the blood of Jesus the anointed one, you have “no life in you”.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
LU….. Rom 1: 3. ….”Concerning his (God’s) Son JESUS (the anointed one) our lord, which was “made” of, (from), the “seed” of David according to the flesh”; and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, (how?) , by the resurection from “the dead”.
Now who did Jesus say he was , “I am”, the root and offspring of David”.
SO in what way is he the “Son of God” then?, the exact same way we are, or haven’t you ever read, “call no man you Father upon the earth , for one is your Father who is in heaven”? There is no difference between Jesus and us, only Satan teachers go about trying desperately to make Jesus out to be different then his human brothers and sisters, Jesus and the apostles and prophet’s sure didn’t?
Bottom line , Jesus the anointed one, came into his “only ever being” from the “seed” of David, and was declared a Son of God with power , according to (by the working of) the Spirit of holiness, (how?) by the “resurection” from the dead. A fellow human being raised back to life again after he died, by the power of God, the Father of all creation.
Nothing more, nothing less! That is it , arguing over trifles is futile at best, either you believe the above or not. If what ever you teach does not line up with those scriptures, it simply is not the truth. IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Edj…..where did I ever say he was the “first christ” (anointed one) at? You never heard me say that , there are many “Christos” or anointed ones, before the man Jesus was born and after his resurection also. Jesus was anointed with the “fulness of the spirit of holiness”. AND GLORIFIED ABOVE HIS FELLOW BROTHERS AND SISTERS, because he poured out his only life for us all. Therefore God has given a higher position in the Family of God, as a fellow human being over the household of God. He is one of us human beings, who will derive our only eternal existence from God the Father, just as he did. There is no difference between Jesus and us, the only one who want you to believe that are Satan’s ministers, who teach and preach his “doctrines of Seperation “. Ask yourself Edj are you also of those who try to make Jesus alway appear different then we are? Or are you one of those true teachers who teach that we can all come unto the unity of Faith , unto to the measure and stature of “fullness” of Christ Jesus “. Where do you stand Edj?
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
Gene, I believe this:
Rom 1: 3. ….”Concerning his (God’s) Son JESUS (the anointed one) our lord, which was “made” of, (from), the “seed” of David according to the flesh”; and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, (how?) , by the resurrection from “the dead”.
Now who did Jesus say he was , “I am”, the root and offspring of David”.
He has always been the Son of God as long as his Father has been a father. He was in spirit form until he entered into the conception within Mary, during that time, while remaining a spirit, he took on flesh. He was the pre-existent Son of God in spirit form who emptied himself of whatever necessary to come to dwell inside a flesh body as a baby.
Gene, every human has been born with a spirit within their flesh, their spirit is not part of their flesh but it is within their flesh. It was the flesh that Mary biologically took part in providing him by the supernatural act of the Holy Spirit of God. Mary did not provide him with a spirit, the spirit pre-existed.
As the flesh was dying, the spirit was given to his Father. After the resurrection, the spirit was back in the resurrected body. Our spirit will be reunited to our resurrected body also. The difference between our spirit and Jesus’ spirit is ours has not existed before creation but Jesus’ has.
Since Jesus had to empty himself from whatever it was to become a human baby, he had to be given the power back and even more, this time with a resurrected body of the Messiah and this time he was given all authority in heaven and on earth. So, before the resurrection, he was the Son of God without all authority in heaven and on earth. After the resurrection, he became the Son of God with all authority in heaven and on earth.
So, before the resurrection, he was the Son of God without all authority in heaven and on earth although he was God in essence.
After the resurrection, he became the Son of God not only in essence but also with power (all authority in heaven and on earth).
Gene,
YOU: He is one of us human beings,
ME: SCRIPTURE SAYS THAT JESUS CAME
IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN NOT
ONE OF HIS BRETHREN
PRODUCE SCRIPTURE WHICH CONFIRMS
THAT JESUS IS
ONE OF US
YOU: Therefore God has given a higher position in the Family of God,
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God,
GENE JESUS IS THE IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD!
ARE YOU THE IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE OF GOD?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Gene,
YOU: There is no difference between Jesus and us,
Hebrews 1:1God, who, at sundry times and in divers manners, spoke in times past to the fathers by the prophets, last of all, 2In these days hath spoken to us by
his Son, (GENE ARE YOU BORN THE SON OF GOD?, NO FOR SURE :
YOU ARE BORN THE SON OF THE DEVIL, ONLY AS A CHRISTIAN BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS, AND IN JESUS, YOU MIGHT BE BORN OF GOD )
whom he hath appointed heir of all things,( GENE, ARE YOU APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS?)
by whom also he made the world. (DID GOD MAKE THE WORLD BY YOU GENE?)
3Who being the brightness of his(FATHER’S) glory, and (ARE YOU THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE FATHER’S GLORY?)
the figure of his(FATHER’S) substance, and (ARE YOU THE FIGURE OF THE SUBSTANCE OF THE FATHER ?)
upholding all things by the word of his(FATHER’S) power, (DO YOU BY ANY CHANCE GENE, UPHOLD ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF THE FATHER’S POWER?)
making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high. (APART THE PURGATION OF SINS, GENE, WILL YOU AT ANY TIME EVENTUALLY SITT ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE MAJESTY ON HIGH?)
4Being made so much better than the angels, ( WILL YOU ALSO GENE, EVENTUALLY, BE MADE SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE ANGELS ARE?)
as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they. ( GENE, ARE YOU LOOKING HEAD TO INHERITED A MORE EXCELLENT NAME THAN THE ANGELS?)
pEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS CHRIST
CARMEL…..Yes to all you listed, I am a son of God, in fact I call no man my Father but one, God who is in heaven,
Carmel …..read Heb 2:5-17 , and come back and tell us in what way is jesus different the we are, tell us why did it “behoved” him to be made like his “brethern”, if he were a God. how would that “behove him any? Seening he was a preexisting God as you falsely teach.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
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