- This topic has 461 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
Hi Ed J,
YOU: The problem is you attempt to force Joseph into the story, when the bible is clear
Joseph was not Jesus father.YOU: so far here are things we do agree upon…
Joseph’s genealogy is given in Matthew 1:2-16 (Abraham to Joseph)
and
Mary’s father’s genealogy is given in Luke 3:23-38
(going all the way back to Adam, son of God)
At least I believe you agree with this.ME:
You are changing the meaning of a word to fit your own narrative here, trying to make generations/ancestory/genealogy/family line/family history/GENESIS into meaning adoption.
Please address this and stop ignoring it.
Matthew 1:1-2 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham begat Isaac……….
WHY does Matthew tell us this is the BOOK OF the generation of Jesus Christ the son of Abraham and then go on to give us then the book of Abraham’s descendants?
You honestly want me to believe that Jesus being called the son of Abraham and then we go directly to Abraham’s descendants, all the while being told we are being given the book of Jesus’ GENESIS, is telling us Jesus was ADOPTED?
That’s just crazy!
Matthew is giving us who Jesus’s descendants are saying he IS a son of Abraham and then he goes in directly to show us exactly how he is a son of Abraham by going through Abraham’s descendants.
17:So (oun/therfore) all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
Ed J, this is the SAME book of generations given from verse 2-16, it begins with Abraham and it includes Joseph and ends with Christ.
Generations is true from Abraham to David and from David to Joseph, but it goes from Joseph to Christ it’s a lie? Or you just prefer to CHANGE the definition of GENEA when it only relates to Christ?
Hi All,
Ed J wants to change the actual meaning of words, take GENESIS and make it into ADOPTION, and then CHANGE GENEA to ADOPTION only when it relates to Christ.
I ask people to consider the following,
As the Greek has NO PUNCTUATION I have left it out below,
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.
A few interesting things,
the word “born” is the same original word used throughout this chapter rendered as “begat”/if I swap born for begat I am not changing any meaning from the original word.
In the original text there is no “was”/so if I leave out “was” I am not changing anything from the original text.
Matthew has told us that we are being given the BOOK OF the GENESIS of Jesus, knowing that this IS the book of the actual GENESIS of Jesus, I have added comas to express pause as to how Matthew would have read the passage so to keep what he previously and just afterwards states REMAINS TRUE.
16 And Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom begat Jesus, who is called Christ.
16-17 And Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom begat Jesus, who is called Christ. THEREFORE all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
This is the SAME BOOK in verse 17 from that of 2-16, that led to the begetting of Joseph and it ends with Christ.
All God needed was to give Mary just one specific kind of cell from Joseph and the above becomes true.
Jodi
Joseph IS the Jesus earthly’s Father
But God IS His Divine Father
Jesuss saithu her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
[31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
[32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
[33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
[34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.You Jodi
“All God needed was to give Mary just a specific type of Joseph’s cell and the above becomes true.”
Me
Joseph did not contribute in any way to the formation of the physical body of Jesus; it was the Holy Spirit of God who engendered and formed the physical body of Jesus in the womb of Mary.
About Jesus speaking to God in Hebrews 10: 5:
Wherefore when he cometh into the world (Jesus), he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Berean…..Remember exactly what Jesus said as to his relationship to God applies to us also, “I am going to my Father “and” your father, my GOD “AND” your God.” , now tell us, how Jesus saying that, makes Jesus any different in his relationship with God the Father then us?
Berean, all thing came from heaven, and proceeded from one God even our heavenly Father, ” call “no” man your Father upon the earth , for “one” is you Father who is in heaven.
So can we not pray, “our” Father who art in Heaven, hollowed be thy name, ” as Jesus did?
Berean, Jesus never tried to make himself appear different then the rest of humanity, only “false” teachers do that, Jesus was and is a 1005 pure human being , always was and always will be.
The false Jesus crsated by the apostasy, “fallen Christanity” , under the sway of Satan , has created the “image” of a false Christ . A “lie” about who Jesus really is, 2ths2.
Jesus is and always was a human being , who came into his “only existence” when he was bon on this earth around two thousand years ago.
Remember what Jesus said, ”many” will come in my name saying I am Christ, and shall decieve “many”. That “many” is FALLEN CHRISTANITY, that exists today. “narrow is the way “FEW” there be that find it. ” never was a truer statement made then that.
All who move Jesus away from his humanity are false teachers, doing exactly what Satan wants them to do, to make Jesus appear different then we are, to destroy our “Faith” we need in God , which is the exact same Faith Jesus had in him. Satan wants us all to believe Jesus was and is completely Different them we are , that was what he was driving at from the start of the Church, that is exactly what Paul was explaining in 2ths2.
That is exactly what John was trying to show us about those Antichrists which were the Gnostic’s of the early Church. Who preached Jesus as a God, who did not need to be anointed, that’s what “anti-christos” or against the anointing means. you see those who preach Jesus as a God or preexisting Being also preach, that he did not “have to” be Anointed by God to do the thing he did , because they preached him as a God already. Get it, Satan was the source that produced the “lie” about Jesus , a human being, being a God, for the purpose of making him appear different then we are, so we could not identify with him on our level, and make us think Jesus’ relationship with God the Father was not the “exact” same as our is, he did that by changing the “image” of Jesus in the minds of people. Causing them to not have the “exact” same Faith in God the Father as he had, by making him appear as different then we are. 2THS2. Explains it for those who have eyes to see.
Peace and love to you and yours …………gene
Gene
You say
“Berean, everything came from heaven, and proceeds from one God, even our heavenly Father, “do not call” any “man your Father on earth, for” one “is you Father who is in heaven.”
Me
no, not all things come from heaven …. read
John 3:31
He that cometh from above is above all (Jesus): he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.Good Morning Berean,
YOU:
Joseph IS the Jesus earthly’s Father
But God IS His Divine Father
Jesuss saithu her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
ME:
Not sure what you are trying to prove here from this verse, Jesus asked her to not cling to him but rather go tell others he had not ascended yet to his Father and our Father, so that his brethren would know that they could see him before he did ascend.
If you are trying to say Jesus didn’t want her to touch him because he was DIVINE and such was not allowed or something, that’s totally ridiculous, as Jesus specifically asked shortly thereafter to be touched to prove to his brethren that he was still a HUMAN BEING of FLESH not a spirit, he further told them to bring him some meat to eat.
Hi Berean,
If you could think on the below passages and respond to my points that come FROM those passages, that would be much appreciated.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us)
The Spirit came upon Jesus, an anointing, for the purpose that he be SENT to PREACH. (Isaiah 11, 42, 61, Luke 4)
Jesus preached the WORD of life, he spoke of his resurrection and our resurrection unto eternal life.
The WORD of eternal life that was from the Beginning, that was WITH the Father was manifested through preaching, Jesus preached the WORD of eternal life.
When Jesus was raised from the dead given eternal life, the Word that was from the beginning, that was WITH God and IS God, was made true in the flesh.
The WORD of LIFE that was WITH God from the beginning was manifested, the people looked upon it and handled it, as “it” was Jesus raised from the dead with his flesh not having seen decay but rather given GLORY, power, made incorruptible.
Jesus IS a human being of FLESH, a son of David who is God’s first begotten Son from the dead, a Son of God according to the Spirit, for those who are LED by the Spirit of God and thus caused to walk in all of God’s ways, are the Sons of God. (Romans 1, 8, Ezekiel 36, Revelation 1)
Jodi
Jesus has God for first Father and Joseph for second father. a divine and a human.
God for the first Father because he was directly begotten of the Father in the days of eternity (Micah 5: 2)
Joseph as a second father, because he was made flesh (like ours) and he needed an earthly father like all humans
We first have an earthly father who begot us and then by faith, God as Father.He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. (John 3:31)
Jesus comes from Heaven
He was with the Father in the beginning …
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. (John 6:38)Reminder
Joseph did not contribute in any way to the formation of the physical body of Jesus; it was the Holy Spirit of God who engendered and formed the physical body of Jesus in the womb of Mary.
Il say
“Joseph as a second father, because he was made flesh (like ours) and he needed an earthly father like all humans
We first have an earthly father who begot us and then by faith, God as Father.”
Jésus needed an earthly Father,not to be formed physicaly in the womb of Mary But for global éducation with thé helping of Mary.
Hi Berean,
As I have recently been saying, Jesus is not a Son of God because of what kind or type of “being” he is, but rather because the “being” that he is has been begotten by God.
Jesus was raised you are told having received the PROMISED Holy Spirit and the mercies of David. He was a dead body of human flesh who then God quickened and begat with His Spirit, a body no longer able to return to corruption, made immortal.
The very fact that it is,
the Son of Man who sits at God’s right hand,
that it is a Son of Man who is returning in our Father’s glory,
that it is a man ordained of God to judge the quick and the dead,
that it is the son of Jesse with God’s Spirit upon him who will judge not by his own eyes and ears,
that it is this son of Jesse that will destroy all enemies,
that it is a son of David who will sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh being a king of kings and a lord of lords.
Doesn’t make you think twice about your doctrine?
God’s WORD that was WITH the Father from the beginning was the GLORY of eternal life unto mankind, likewise the WORD that was WITH the Father from the beginning was this Son of Man, this son of David, this son of Jesse, would bring forth this WORD through his own blood.
Jesus was faithful unto God unto his death, he was tested going to the cross and did not fail, he was perfected, for this reason he could not be held to the penalty of death so God quickened him. We see through Jesus that when YHVH is mindful of a man and visits him, begets him of His Spirit causing him to walk in all of God’s ways he is deserving of honor and glory, he is deserving of eternal life.
Jesus tells us his baptism is our baptism, that we are to drink of the cup he drinks of, and that cup is the ONE SPIRIT, to which Jesus had received again when he rose from the dead, as was promised from the beginning, being begotten on that day of God’s Spirit caused to walk in all of God’s ways forevermore.
For YHVH when He made all things He says BY HIMSELF, He did so that this Son of Man could have dominion over it. YHVH said that He did not make earth in vain but for it to be inhabited. He made humans in His own image, and the Son of Man with God’s Spirit upon him thus returns to us in our Father’s glory/YHVH’s image, to then make his brethren joint heirs of God’s Spirit with him. For those who are LED by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God, and the Spirit bears witness to our spirit that we are children of God.
Hi Berean,
Whatever kind of being you think Jesus existed before as, he most certainly did not RETURN to, unless you believe he pre-existed as a son of David, a human being with eternal life?
Hi Berean,
Can you agree that the WORD of eternal life was WITH the Father from the beginning?
That Jesus being slain shedding his blood was according to our Father’s determined purpose and foreknowledge?
That our Father declared the End from the beginning and a man would come and execute our Father’s WORD that our Father declared, which was righteousness and salvation for Israel and also Gentiles?
Can you agree that man is Jesus of Nazareth who was anointed with the Spirit sent to execute our Father’s purpose?
Can you agree then that the WORD of the glory of Jesus was WITH the Father from the beginning?
That without our Father’s WORD of eternal life and the WORD of the glory of Jesus executing it, nothing would have been made that was made?
Berean…….what Jodi and I am telling you is the truth.
What I did was quote to you what Jesus said, not me Berean , and you said no, it was Jesus who said the we should call no man on earth but one is your Father, who is in heaven, not me, I simply quoted it. And even if something came from what is on the earth it still ultimately came from God rught ? No matter what it is, Didn’t God say he alone and by himself created the world and spread the earth everything in it?
Isa 44:24 “Thus says the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed you from the womb, I AM THE LORD, that makes “all” things; that stretches forth the heavens “alone”: that spreads abroad the earth by “myself”.
What Paul was referencing to was i believe was about the knowledge we have , it can be from above or from below, like being carnel minded or spiritual minded, one is from below and the other is from above. If you are worldly minded the world hears you, but if you are spritual minded the worldly minded won’t hear you.
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Gene and Jodi
For me you weren’t preaching the right truth about WHO REALLY IS JESUS OF NAZARETH
You work on the side of antiChristJodi,
You said:
16 And Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom begat Jesus, who is called Christ.
16-17 And Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom begat Jesus, who is called Christ. THEREFORE all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
This is the SAME BOOK in verse 17 from that of 2-16, that led to the begetting of Joseph and it ends with Christ.
All God needed was to give Mary just one specific kind of cell from Joseph and the above becomes true.
I would appreciate it if you would clarify who you believe the word “whom” in v. 16 is referring to. Is it referring to Joseph or Mary?
16 And Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom begat Jesus, who is called Christ.
Thanks, LU
Hi Jodi,
Luke 24:36Now whilst they were speaking these things,
Jesus stood in the midst of them, and saith to them:
Answer Jodi, FROM WHERE JESUS APPEARED ALL OF A SUDDEN IN THE MIDST OF THEM?
Peace be to you; it is I, fear not.
WHY IT WAS VITAL FOR JESUS TO SAY
FEAR NOT?
37But they being troubled and frightened,
supposed that they saw a spirit.
WHY WERE THEY TROUBLED AND FRIGHTENED, AND DESPITE
THEY SAW HIM PHYSICALLY IN FLESH AND BONES
THEY THAUGHT JESUS WAS A SPIRIT?
A SPIRIT IS INVISIBLE NO?
38And he said to them: Why are you troubled, and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39See my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle, and see:
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones,
as you see me to have. (DESPITE THE FACT THAT JESUS WAS ALSO A SPIRIT)
Genesis 19:1And the two angels came to Sodom in the evening,
and Lot was sitting in the gate of the city. And seeing them, he rose up and went to meet them: and worshipped prostrate to the ground,
Answer Jodi, WHY DIDN’T LOT AFRAID OF THESE ANGELS, IN HUMAN FLESH AND BONES, LIKE THE APOSTLES DID?
WHERE THESE ANGELS ACTUALLY HUMANS OR SPIRIT BEINGS?
2And said: I beseech you, my lords, turn in to the house of your servant, and lodge there: wash your feet, and in the morning you shall go on your way.
And they said: No, but we will abide in the street. 3He pressed them very much to turn in unto him: and when they were come in to his house,
he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread and they ate:
I REPEAT Jodi, WERE THESE ANGELS IN FLESH AND BONES SINCE THEY ATE?
4But before they went to bed, the men of the city beset the house both young and old, all the people together. 5And they called Lot, and said to him:
Where are the men
that came in to thee at night?
bring them out hither that
we may know them:
WHAT WERE THEY Jodi
SPIRITS OR HUMANS?
10: And behold the men(ANGELS) put out their hand,
and drew in Lot unto them,
and shut the door:
ANSWER, PLEASE Jodi WERE THESE ANGELS
SPIRITS, OR HUMANS?
DID THEY HAVE FLESH AND BONES SINCE THEY GRABBED LOT AND PUT HIM INSIDE AGAIN, AND SHUT THE DOOR?
DON’T YOU ACCEPT THE FACT THAT ANGELS COULD MANIFEST THEMSELVES AS HUMANS IN FLESH AND BONES, BUT
NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND, I MEAN THAT
HUMANS COULD NEVER TRANSFORM THEMSELVES AS SPIRITS.
ONLY JESUS ACHIEVED THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME ON EARTH.
HE SIMPLY DID IT
FOR OUR SAKE!
HE ESTABLISHED THE PERFECT FLESH BODY WHICH NEVER DIES, AND COULD BECOME SPIRIT AS HE FEELS FIT!
THIS IS WELL MENTIONED BY JESUS IN
John 10:9 I am the door. (to the spiritual life, eternal life)
By me, if any man enter in, (IN THE SPIRITUAL REALM) he shall be saved:
and he shall go in,(THE SPIRIT) and go out, (OF THE SPIRIT)
and shall find pastures. (GLORIFIED IN BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH)
Satan believed that he could achieve this prior to Jesus!
The fact that he eventually achieves this but only to be CRUSHED ONCE AND FOR ALL BY
THE WOMAN MARY!
BY WHICH ACT SHE WOULD BECOME
GODWOMAN on earth!
peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel …. Are you saying Mary is a God? Man this is getting crazier everytime you post. What do you do with this comandment ?
“you shall have “no other” God besides me”. Man you people are bold, having no fear of God at all. First you try to make Jesus a God and then Mary a God. Talk about screwed up , but now it makes sense, why you people change the text to say what it does not even hint at. Something has control of your mind and it is not the truth of God that is for sure. Repent while you can Carmel.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
