- This topic has 520 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
Hi Gene,
Exactly right brother!
I was just reading John 15 at it speaks directly against what TC and Carmel try and teach.
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17 These things I command you, that ye love one another. 18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. 23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. 25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
Jesus is a man who did works that no other man did, as Jesus was the only man to have God’s Spirit come down and abode upon him without measure, thus being a man directly sent from heaven, FROM God, SENT to speak God’s word and FULFILL God’s word, thus fulfill all of God’s will.
The words that Jesus spoke are to abide in us, they are God’s words, not his, and if they abide in us then Jesus abides in us and the Father also.
All things that Jesus heard from the Father Jesus made known!!
WE ARE CLEAN through God’s word that Jesus spoke to us!
The Comforter is God’s Spirit which proceedeth from the Father.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Luke 12: 11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: 12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
Jesus spoke God’s word BECAUSE God’s Spirit rested upon him, Jesus spoke that which the Father taught him to speak. Likewise the apostles spoke God’s word through the Comforter, the Holy Spirit. That Spirit would cause them to remember and believe in the words Jesus spoke. These are words of wisdom, and God’s words of Wisdom are a Tree of Life to those who take hold of them. These are words concerning the Son of Man, and we take those words into our heart and thus we take Jesus into our heart and Jesus abides in us through God’s word.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life.
The words Jesus spoke were words of God’s Spirit, God’s wisdom and God’s wisdom is a Tree of Life.
Hence why Jesus says that the words that he spoke, which were the words of the Spirit of God, make us clean.
There are some on this forum who deny the truth clearly written they CHANGE the word of God,
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
1Thes 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: 6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: 7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
The Gospel was of a promise spoken prior by the prophets! The Gospel is not secrets Jesus nor the apostles spoke in code, they spoke so the truth of God’s determined purpose could be made known. The Son of God was made FROM/OUT of the SEED of David, and was a Son ACCORDING to God’s Spirit.
The Gospel, the good news that Paul teaches is that we are JOINT heirs with Christ being heirs of God. Christ IS the seed of David who God raised up according to the flesh to sit on an eternal throne, being given authority and made to be a father unto the people. Christ IS the seed of Abraham who through him according to God’s mercy, all nations would be blessed.
The gospel that Paul preaches is that we are to be made in the image of his Son and that Son IS the firstborn of many. He is a Son and we are to be Sons, and we are said to be a Son of God through being LED by God’s Spirit, as the Spirit is a witness to our spirit that we are children of God. How perfect that God’s word is that the Spirit descended upon Jesus and abode upon him and God declared at that moment, “this is my beloved Son”. He is then said to have left the Jordan being FILLED with the Spirit and LED by the Spirit. Jesus was a Son according to the Spirit and the same is true for us, it is by the Spirit being a witness to our spirit that we too are Sons. We take the word of God revealed to us and place it in our hearts. Jesus left the Jordan river being LED by the Spirit and he did not fail, he fulfilled all of God’s will, just as God had promised unto David, that of his seed God would raise up a savior unto the house of Israel, a man who would fulfill all His will.
How perfect that the gospel spoken by Isaiah was that God would call a human to righteousness and direct all his ways, and we read Jesus saying that he had to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness. How perfect is God’s word that not only did He promise to David concerning David’s son that he would be a Father to him, but also that He would MAKE David’s son into His firstborn. David spoke of the gospel, where he saw his son become his master, a king of kings and a lord of lords. By the Spirit of God David was anointed and spoke of the gospel and he believed in the WORD of God that he received and it was counted for him as his righteousness and he saw himself also rising from the dead.
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
God knew from the beginning that by one man sin and death would come, and by another man righteousness and life, one has to believe in the word of God for it is Spirit and life.
We are not saved by believing Jesus pre-existed or that Jesus is God, we are saved by believing that God called a human to righteousness and directed all his ways so that he could condemn sin in his flesh. We are to believe in the operation of God, that Jesus is to us proof of the work of God’s Spirit, that God’s Spirit brings forth a PERFECT MAN, a NEW MAN, a SECOND ADAM, the Adam (HUMAN) God MADE into His image.
Hi TC,
1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together….29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
TC the LAMB is the Son of Man that the LORD was mindful of and visited, the son of Jesse, the son of David who God CALLED to RIGHTEOUSNESS and held his hand and kept him without spot or blemish, directing all his ways so that he could be for a LIGHT to all people. He received the Spirit of Knowledge and Fear of the LORD, and by such he had faith to walk in the direction God commanded him to go, which was to the cross, where by his obedience he is said to have been MADE perfect becoming our source for eternal salvation.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government (authority)shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
TC you are totally UNLEARNED of scripture, the child born that was promised to come is the son of Jesse, the son of David, and the son of Abraham, God said He would give a HUMAN dominion/authority over all the works of His hands. God said He would rest His Spirit of Council and Might upon him, which would make him a Wonderful Councilor and a Mighty One. God also promised him eternal life and that the one who He gives authority to would be a father unto the people. God likewise promised this HUMAN of the seed of Abraham that through him all nations would be blessed, that he would reconcile the world, that he would not judge but his own eyes and ears but would be a righteous judge through God’s righteousness, a Prince of Peace.
Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
“when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”
Jesus is the firstborn of MANY, he was raised from the dead in power, glory, incorruptible. When he returns we shall be changed, we shall be like him, a Second Adam (HUMAN) who has eternal life. We shall see him as he is for we will BE LIKE him.
The saying, once I was blind, but now I see, is that just a matter of eyesight/vision, just literal meaning, NO, it represents being ignorant of something to now knowing.
We will see him, we will know the truth of his being, for we likewise will be as he is, our bodies will change from weakness to power, dishonor to glory, and corruptible to incorruptible.
What it will FEEL like to no longer have a body that was in all our lifetimes subject to BONDAGE because of the fear of death, we won’t see, as in know, until we are changed, and then we will see, as in know, Jesus for who he is, the Second Adam. Death will be swallowed up into victory, we will be set free from a body that was weak, a body that hungered that then told our mind we must eat in order to live. We will be given a body that no longer has to be served in order to live, we will be set free from temptation and can live by every word that proceeds out of our Heavenly Father’s mouth, walking righteously in all His ways.
YOU:
The father in heaven expressed himself fully in the spirit mind Christ here on earth.
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
God consists of the divinity of the father and the humanity of Christ. God is the father and his son.
ME: The Father in heaven rested His Spirit upon a man, calling that man to righteousness, directing all his ways so that he would learn obedience. As Jesus said, he could do nothing himself, that which he did was through being taught by God. God shared the fruits of His Spirit, God gave Jesus the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD. Jesus was one of the people that God had made and gave a spirit to walk therein, and God elected Jesus from out of the people and called him to righeousness. Man on his own can do nothing himself, just as Jesus claimed of himself. Man needs to be taught by God, just as Jesus claimed. The Spirit was a witness to Jesus’s human spirit that he was a Son of God, for those that are LED by the Spirit are the Sons of God.
Our heavenly Father anointed Jesus of Nazareth to preach His Gospel and to fulfill all of His will, as God had promised to David that his seed would come and do just that. Why Jesus said he did not follow his own will, but that of God’s, why Jesus said the works that he did were not his, but God’s. God’s Spirit was resting upon a man without measure, where God was able to then direct all his ways. A HUMAN was set apart by God, chosen from out of the people to be God’s messenger to fulfill all of God’s will.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
17 Jesus saith unto her,Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
TC Jesus did the will of God, he was to make his God and our God known unto us and what God’s will is. Jesus tells us,
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Jesus gave us the commandments to love God, to love each other, to believe that God sent him out into the world to teach us God’s Gospel, what was God’s determined purpose before the world even was. That purpose was God making Adam (human beings) in His own image, that Adam is JESUS, known as a NEW MAN, known as the Second Adam, who is promised to be a firstborn of many brothers and sister.
Hi Jodi,
YOU: 17 Jesus saith unto her,Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I
ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
NOT ASCEND UNTO, BUT
ASCEND TO
DRB. Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me: for I am not yet
ascended to ( in the power of )my Father.
In the above, Jesus made clear that when He resurrected, FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME,
HE WAS AN ORDINARY MAN!
THE MAN BORN AGAIN, born from the dead BY
THE NEW POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST GLORIFIED ON JESUS DEATH AS
JESUS CHRIST, GODMAN!
JESUS RESURRECTED in His own spirit originally slain like a lamb from the beginning of the world,
ENGRAFTED IN ALL SOULS! ETERNAL LIFE! PREEXISTED!
Luke 23:46 And Jesus crying with a loud voice, said: Father,
into thy hands I commend MY SPIRIT. (originally IN ALL SOULS, ETERNAL LIFE)
And saying this, he gave up
the ghost. ( the Holy Ghost in Jesus’soul!
In that instant the Holy Ghost owned
JESUS’ BODY, GOD BECAME MAN in the Holy Ghost)
Jesus resurrected as MAN and NOT YET PERFECT! ONLY GOD IS PERFECT! The angel moved the stone in order for Him to come out, He disturbed His burial clothes. Also, ONLY IN THIS PIECE OF SCRIPTURE, precisely after He resurrected,
JESUS HIMSELF DECLARED THAT
HE WAS OUR BRETHREN!
THE NEW ADAM! THE MAN BORN AGAIN FROM THE DEAD!
SPIRITUALLY DEAD! BOTH IN HELL AND ON EARTH! FROM THE ENTIRE SOULS.
NOT YET PERFECT! NOT YET UNITED WITH THE HOLY GHOST GLORIFIED ON JESUS’ DEATH AS
JESUS CHRIST.
GODMAN.
the fact that He said to Mary NOT TO TOUCH HIM, THEN HE SAID:
But go to my brethren and say to them:
I ascend to ( in the power of ) my Father and your Father, to my God, and to your God
In the above, Jesus ASSERTED that EVENTUALLY, He WOULD GLORIFY IN THE POWER OF HIS FATHER and OF HIS GOD!
WHICH HE DID AFTER 6 IN THE EVENING OF THAT SAME DAY!
THE FACT THAT HE ENTERED AS A SPIRIT THROUGH WALLS, RETURNED INTO HIS FLESH AND SAT IN THE MIDST OF HIS DISCIPLES.
JESUS CHRIST IS UNIQUE and possesses both
THE POWER AND ATTRIBUTES OF GOD, IN THE HOLY GHOST, in Jesus’SOUL
AND THE ATTRIBUTES OF MAN, IN”THE WORD” in Jesus’FLESH plus that
THE NEW MAN BORN AGAIN, THE NEW ADAM, THE AUTHENTIC MAN, BECAME ONE SUBSTANCE WITH JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN.
ORDINARY HUMANS and JESUS CHRIST ARE NOT TWO ANY MORE, BUT
TWO IN ONE FLESH!
DIVNEHUMAN! IN ONE SAME BLOOD, ONE SAME FATHER, ONE SAME GOD!
JESUS CHRIST
GOD OF ALL FLESH
Ephesians 4:3
Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4One body and one Spirit: as you are called in one hope of your calling.
5One Lord, one faith, one baptism. 6One God and Father of all,
who is above all, and through all, and in us all.
7But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of
the giving of Christ.
8Wherefore he saith: Ascending on high, he led captivity captive:
he gave gifts to men.
John 17: 10 And all my things are thine, and thine are mine:
and I am glorified in them.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Carmel
You quoted the scripture I gave as one example that shows us that Jesus is not God: 17 Jesus saith unto her,Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
You then reply ignoring how it is an example that Jesus is not God but OUR BROTHER and go on to give your own definition to words so that a passage can fit your antichrist doctrine.
YOU: NOT ASCEND UNTO, BUT
ASCEND TO
DRB. Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me: for I am not yet ascended to ( in the power of )my Father.
ME: The words translated “to” and “unto” are the same Greek word “pro”. Yes Jesus ascends to or unto the Father. Pros is translated as “unto” 340 times, and “to” 203 time and it means,
to the advantage of
at, near, by
to, towards, with, with regard toYou say “to” means “in the power of”
You say in regards to that passage: In the above, Jesus made clear that when He resurrected, FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME,
HE WAS AN ORDINARY MAN!
THE MAN BORN AGAIN, born from the dead BY
THE NEW POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST GLORIFIED ON JESUS DEATH AS
JESUS CHRIST, GODMAN!ME: Carmel you speak stuff, say it is clear, but yet what you say is NOT scripture but you changing it and taking a word and apply your own definitions to fit your doctrine.
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
That SAME Jesus returns, and he does so in like manner as he ascended. Jesus does not change into a different kind of being when he ascends. The Son of man (HUMAN) who was resurrected from the dead WAS resurrected in glory, power, incorruptible, he appeared and made certain to disciples that he was flesh and bones, and as they say THIS Jesus ascend to heaven, to the Father, they will see this SAME Jesus, a Son of Man descend.
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him,Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Luke 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
Acts 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Carmel, WHY does the Son of man stand on the right hand of God?
BECAUSE the Son of man spoken of in this passage is Jesus the son of David, and in Jesus God fulfilled His promise that He gave unto David concerning his son. A HUMAN would be CALLED to righteousness and God would direct all his ways so that he would not fail according to all things God asked him to do. God made all things ALONE, by himself He says, and He did it through him and for him, the one who God knew He would choose among the people. Him being led by the Spirit he was a Son. The Son of Man sits at God’s right hand because of the power/influence that God’s Spirit has upon a human spirit when God’s Spirit is given in full measure.
Carmel, God promised to be mindful of a HUMAN, visit him, crown him with glory and honor, give this human dominon over all the works of His hands. YOU treat God’s determined purpose, His WORD as if it were spoken in vein. God did not make humans in vein. God’s promise to David that He would make his son into His firstborn son was not spoken in vein.
Hi Carmel,
YOU take passages and say they are saying something that they don’t actually say at all, and what you say the passage means is directly AGAINST scripture.
Same goes for TC, you both IGNORE how the passage relates to prophecy, God’s word given prior, to that which would occur according to God’s determined purpose, His will.
You ignore God’s word, prophecy fulfilled, instead of apply it you instead invent something different entirely.
READ ACTS 2,
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 THIS JESUS hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath MADE that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
The people were witnesses to the Jesus who was resurrected, the Jesus raised up that would sit on an eternal throne. They were not witnesses to a temporary body, they were witnesses to a body that was raised IN POWER, IN GLORY, INCORRUPTIBLE.
The Christ would sit on an eternal throne ACCORDING to the FLESH, as that FLESH was not allowed to see decay instead it was quickened, brought to life IN POWER, IN GLORY, INCORRUPTIBLE.
Jesus was a HUMAN and he was raised a HUMAN, he was not, is not, and never will be a GODMAN. He is the fulfillment of God’s words spoken in Genesis, an Adam (HUMAN) who God MADE in His own image.
The one who shed his blood according to Paul is he who exists in the invisible image of God, and before God created all things God by His foreknowledge and purpose knew that He would call Jesus to righteousness and direct all his ways, meaning that God’s Spirit would be a witness to Jesus’s human spirit that he is a Son of God, for Paul says that those who are LED by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.
The Son of Man who God set apart by directing all His ways, shed his blood BECAUSE he was being LED fully by God’s Spirit. Paul says though he were a Son, yet he learned obedience through suffering and having been MADE PERFECT he BECAME our source for eternal salvation.
Some pre-existing spirit didn’t need to come down from heaven and be transformed into a man so that we could be saved, NO SCRIPTURE speaks of that.
God’s Spirit needed to come down and rest upon a man, meaning God’s Spirit was WITH Jesus leading him, directing all his ways, TEACHING him, so that he could fulfill God’s will. When that Spirit came down and abode upon Jesus God SENT him out to do God’s work, speak God’s words, fulfill God’s will, Jesus was not coming forth from the world, he was SENT coming directly from heaven, from God.
You are directly told Carmel that the Son of God IS the firstborn of the dead of many brethren. That IS WHO the Son of God IS, he is ONE of MANY, and out of that MANY he is a king of kings and a lord of lords. The kings and the lords that he rules over are also chosen out of the MANY, and they were as the man Jesus was, also predestined, also foreordained by the foreknowledge and determined purpose of the One True God.
Hi Carmel,
Since one man brought sin and death into the world, all of mankind have lived since then in BONDAGE to the FEAR of DEATH. Mankind serves their flesh, they live by bread. Throughout history man has feared death, and when he has hungered his fear brought forth evil thoughts and evil deeds in order to stay alive. Man will steal, lie, cheat, and even kill for bread in order to live, breaking God’s word, His commandments.
Jesus was a man who at all points was tempted just as we are tempted, but he remained without sin. He feared DEATH, he even asked God to “take this cup” from him, but he said “not as I will but as you will Father.”
Carmel, Jesus was a man who was going to DIE, as a man he feared death, but his fear did not overpower his FAITH in God, Jesus believed God’s word, Jesus believed God’s Gospel, Jesus believed he was the son of David of prophecy and he would live not on bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of God’s mouth. He believed God would raise him up, he believed in the words of God that he himself preached.
When Jesus cried with a loud voice and said “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit”, he was professing his FAITH to God, he was breaking the bondage, where fear did not lead him to disobey God, but instead his act of FAITH over the power of his weak flesh PERFECTED him.
THEN Jesus DIED, as the breath of God left him and he was no longer LIVING, he ceased to exist. When a body dies it will decay, but God had sworn and oath to David concerning his son that He would not allow his flesh to see decay. God raised up Jesus to LIFE, quickened his spirit, gave him the breath of life again in his body and God changed that body from weakness to power, from dishonor to glory, from corruptible to incorruptible.
Carmel you take a passage that is so meaningful and insert your own doctrine bringing destruction to the true understanding of scripture.
Jesus was an example, Jesus told his disciples likewise not to fear, as they would also be persecuted, tortured and killed, and if they overcame and stood in their FAITH Jesus promised them a crown of life.
Jesus had the power to take himself down from the cross at any moment, he had the power to save himself from death, but he was willing to give his life, commend his spirit to God, he was willing because he had FAITH in God and God’s Gospel which was for our sake. How powerful, an amazing example of a HUMAN having PERFECT FAITH in God!!
Jesus overcame!! A human overcame the bondage, as God’s Spirit upon a man without measure truly directs a man in all his ways!!
Hi Jodi,
Strong’s Concordance
pros: advantageous for, at (denotes local proximity), toward (denotes motion toward a place)
Original Word: πρός
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: pros
Phonetic Spelling: (pros)
Definition: advantageous for, at (denotes local proximity), toward (denotes motion toward a place)
Usage: to, towards, with.HELPS Word-studies4314 prós (a preposition) – properly, motion towards to
“interface with”
(literally, moving toward
A GOAL or destination).
free dictionary.com
interface with
interface with someone or something
to develop a connection orinteraction with someone or something.
Synonyms for interfacing
accommodate
assimilate
blend
combine
conform
consolidate
coordinate
desegregate
fuse
harmonize
incorporate
join
link
mesh
organize
unify
unite
amalgamate
arrange
articulate
associate
attune
coalesce
compact
concatenate
concentrate
conjoin
embody
intermix
knit
orchestrate
proportion
reconcile
symphonize
synthesize
systematize
tune
wed
come together
get together
interface
meld with
reconciliate
throw in togetherIn the above you have enough to
CHEW
and discern the TRUTH!
YOU: You say “to” means “in the power of”
No, Jodi, I didn’t define the word “to’
I simply made clear what Jesus meant with that PARTICULAR :
ASCEND TO!
Peace and Love in Jesus Christ
Carmel….. you couldn’t be more wrong even if you tried, Jodi is apsolutely right as to what those scriptures are saying. She is being lead by the holy spirit of God,that is obvious to me, you on the other hand are being led by your decieved mind, thats got decieved a long time ago and remains with you to this very day. Repent and ask God the Father to show you the real truth about Who Jesus really is, and you might be suprised what you find out.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Jodi,
YOU: Some pre-existing spirit didn’t need to come down from heaven and be transformed into a man so that we could be saved, NO SCRIPTURE speaks of that
John6:26Jesus answered them and said: Amen, amen, I say to you, you seek me, not because you have seen miracles, but because you did eat of the loaves and were filled.
FILLED WITH JESUS’ SPIRIT!
THE BREAD WHICH CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN! ETERNAL WITH THE FATHER:
THE SPIRIT SUBSTANCE OF THE FATHER PRE-EXISTED
Hebrews 1:Who being the brightness of his (FATHER’S) glory and the figure of his(FATHER’S) substance and upholding all things by the word of his (FATHER’S) power,
27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that which endureth unto life everlasting, which the Son of man will give you. For him hath God, the Father, sealed.
SEALED ETERNALLY IN THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF CREATION: ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM, and ALL FOR HIM!
A PRE-EXISTED SPIRIT!
28They said therefore unto him: What shall we do, that we may work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said to them:
This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he hath sent. 30They said therefore to him: What sign therefore dost thou shew that we may see and may believe thee? What dost thou work? 31Our fathers did eat manna in the desert, as it is written: He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you; Moses gave you not bread from heaven, but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is that
which cometh down from heaven
and giveth life to the world. 34They said therefore unto him: Lord, give us always this bread.
35And Jesus said to them: I am the bread of life. He that cometh to me shall not hunger: and he that believeth in me shall never thirst. 36But I said unto you that you also have seen me, and you believe not. 37All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me: and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
38Because I came down from heaven, ( AGAIN PRE-EXISTED)
not to do my own will but the will of him that sent me. 39Now this is the will of the Father who sent me: (THE FATHER AS A SPIRIT, COULD DO NOTHING ALL BY HIMSELF, SO HE SENT HIS SON TO DO ALL FOR HIM AS A HUMAN SACRIFICE)
that of all that he hath given me,
(THE ENTIRE PHYSICAL IN JESUS’ DIVINE FLESH, THE FACT THAT IT IS THE FATHER’S SUBSTANCE)
I should lose nothing; but should raise it up again in the last day. ( HIS FIRST RESURRECTION, and on the last day of the Lord HIS SECOND RESURRECTION IN THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE )
40And this is the will of my Father that sent me:
that every one who seeth the Son and believeth in him ( A PRE-EXISTED SPIRIT SUBSTANCE OF THE FATHER) may have life everlasting.
And I will raise him up in the last day. (THE LAST DAY WHEN A PERSON DIES, the last day on earth. the first resurrection of the SOUL )
41The Jews therefore murmured at him, because he had said:
I am the living bread which came down from heaven. 42And they said: Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How then saith he:
I came down from heaven?
43Jesus therefore answered and said to them: Murmur not among yourselves. 44No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him. And I will raise him up in the last day. 45It is written in the prophets: And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard of the Father and hath learned cometh forth me. 46Not that any man hath seen the Father:
but he who is of God, (OF THE FATHER’ S SUBSTANCE)
he hath seen the Father. (PRE-EXISTED)
47Amen, amen, I say unto you: He that believeth in me hath everlasting life. 48I am the bread of life. 49Your fathers did eat manna in the desert: and are dead.
50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven:
that if any man eat of it, he may not die.
51I am the living bread which came down from heaven.
[52] If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world.
52{53}The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53{54}Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 54{55}He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. 55{56}For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 56{57}He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me: and I in him. 57{58}As the living Father hath sent me and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me.
58{59}This is the bread that came down from heaven.
Not as your fathers did eat manna and are dead. He that eateth this bread shall live for ever.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel,
17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”
34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand
Jesus ascended to the Father so that he would sit at His right hand, as according to prophecy.
1 It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to (pros) the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.
Carmel, Jesus left the world and went to sit at his God and our God’s right hand. He sits at God’s right hand because he is the human who God perfected, the human who God had elected out of the people and CALLED to righteousness, where God directed all his ways.
Carmel you don’t believe the WORD of God which Jesus spoke, his God is our God, his Father is our Father, and he is a brother to those that do the will of OUR Father.
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him,Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Carmel you don’t believe the WORD of God spoken to David, how God would be mindful of a human, visit the human and crown that human with glory and honor and give that human dominion over the works of God’s hands.
Hi Carmel,
17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”
Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Carmel, God’s word does not say anywhere that Jesus is a GODMAN. John 20:17 tells you directly that he is our BROTHER and NOT the One True God.
God’s word DOES say, that He did’t make humans in vein, He made them to dwell on earth for an eternity in His own image. Before God our heavenly Father, ALONE by HIMSELF made mankind, He promised them eternal life. Jesus is the firstborn human with eternal life who is returning to earth to sit according to the flesh on his father David’s throne.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man (Adam -human beings) in his own image
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. 19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
Acts 13:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the PROMISE of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Psalm 89:19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people. 20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: 21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. 22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. 23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. 24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
Psalm 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Carmel, I say I believe in this word of God written, I believe in the exact Gospel that God called Paul to preach, but you turn and accuse me of being carnally minded for believing in exactly what is written.
Being carnally minded means that you are led by your own imagination. It is by your own imagination that you believe Jesus is GODMAN.
To be spiritual minded is to BELIEVE in that which is written, for our LORD said,
19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark placeof the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right….22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. 25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
Acts 13:23 Of this man’s seed hath God ACCORDING TO HIS PROMISE raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son , and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end…
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
AGAIN Psalm 89,
24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
Before Jesus’s God and my God, created all things by Himself through His power and wisdom, He KNEW that He was going to be mindful of a man, visit this man resting His Spirit upon him, He KNEW that He was going to crown this man with glory and honor and give this man dominion over all the earth as a firstborn of many humans with eternal life, and make this man higher than the kings of the earth. Jesus’s God and my God, Jesus’s Father and my Father declared the END from the beginning, He made all things through his determined purpose, He made all things by reason of and for this man, for by this man,
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:… 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Carmel, we are redeemed through God calling a HUMAN to righteousness, holding his hand and keeping him! We are redeemed because God raised up one from among the people into righteousness where He directed all his ways. We are to believe in the operation of God, that He can make a man perfect, cause a man to be obedient living without sin and thus worthy of eternal life. If we believe the operation of God unto Jesus, God says He will make us perfect as well, that He will be ALL in us, that we will be His heir, a joint heir with Christ, a Son of God being fully led by God’s Spirit.
God’s determined purpose Carmel was that He did not created earth and mankind in vein He created it to be inhabited by righteous humans with eternal life who walk in all ways according to God, for God is ALL in ALL.
Jesus WILL return and those who believe that he IS firstborn of many according to the operation of God, will likewise be made perfect and receive eternal life. They will then be witness to Jesus sitting on his father David’s throne according to the flesh ruling in Jerusalem as a king of kings and a lord of lords.
Hi Jodi,
YOU:Carmel, we are redeemed through God calling a HUMAN to righteousness, holding his hand and keeping him! We are redeemed because God raised up one from among the people into righteousness where He directed all his ways.
WE ARE REDEEMED, OR MORE APPROPRIATE:
RECREATED ANEW
BY A TOTAL DIVINE
INTERVENTION!
NOTHING OF SATANIC CURSED EARTH!
DO YOU BELIEVE THIS Jodi?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Jodi
YOU: Carmel, God’s word does not say anywhere that Jesus is a GODMAN.
Jodi, WHAT DOES THIS STATEMENT HEREUNDER BY THOMAS TELLS YOU :
John20:28 Thomas answered and said to him:
My Lord and my God.
Thomas (often referred to as doubting Thomas) proclaims that Jesus is God. This is after the resurrection and after Thomas felt the holes in Jesus’ hands. He knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that the man before Him, Jesus,
was truly, God.
MORE SCRIPTURE:
John 17:1 These things Jesus spoke: and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: the hour is come.
Glorify thy Son,
(AS GOD on earth)
that thy Son may glorify thee.
(AS MAN in heaven)
2As thou hast given him
power
OVER ALL FLESH,
that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
John 17:10 And all my (HUMAN) things are thine, (IN THE HOLY GHOST IN JESUS’SOUL THE SON OF GOD)
and thine (IN THE HOLY GHOST IN JESUS’ SOUL ) are mine: (THE SON OF MAN “THE WORD” in JESUS’ FLESH) and
I am glorified in them.
Now Jodi,
The Holy Ghost in Jesus’ SOUL and
“THE WORD” in Jesus’ FLESH
ARE NOT TWO ANY MORE BUT
TWO IN ONE EMBODIMENT OF
JESUS CHRIST, ON JESUS’DEATH ON THE CROSS
GODMAN
Confirmed and predicted in
Isaiah 9:6 For a CHILD IS BORN to us, and
A SON IS GIVEN TO US. and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor,
God the Mighty,
the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace.
AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL:
JESUS CHRIST IS
A PARTICULAR UNIQUE
GOD and FATHER OF ALL,
ASSERTED BY JESUS TO MARY MAGDALENE!
But go to my brethren and say to them:
I ascend to ( THE UNIQUE STATE OF)
my Father and to your Father, to my God and to your God.
THE ABOVE TITLES OF
FATHER AND GOD WAS DIRECTED TO
JESUS CHRIST
GLORIFIED
GODMAN ON THE CROSS!
THE FACT THAT HE SAID:
MY(PARTICULAR UNIQUE) FATHER AND YOUR FATHER
MY(PARTICULAR UNIQUE ) GOD AND YOUR GOD.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Jodi,
I repeat:
AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL:
JESUS CHRIST IS
A PARTICULAR UNIQUE
GOD and FATHER OF ALL,
ASSERTED BY JESUS TO MARY MAGDALENE!
But go to my brethren and say to them:
I ascend to ( THE UNIQUE STATE OF)
my Father and to your Father, to my God and to your God.
THE ABOVE TITLES OF
FATHER AND GOD WAS DIRECTED TO
JESUS CHRIST
GLORIFIED
GODMAN ON THE CROSS!
THE FACT THAT HE SAID:MY
(PARTICULAR UNIQUE) FATHER AND YOUR FATHER
MY
(PARTICULAR UNIQUE ) GOD AND YOUR GOD.
JESUS’ DEAD BODY RESURRECTED BY
THE NEW UNIQUE POWER OF
JESUS CHRIST
THE NEW GOD and FATHER OF ALL ON EARTH
for the new world to come
Isaiah 9:6
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel……Jesus was simply saying that his “father and our father was the same Father and his God and our God was the same God’, anyone who reads that can easely understand what he was saying.
As far as Thomas saying “my lord and my God” , Thomas was simply acknowledging the fact that God was present “in” Jesus, by the onointing spirit that , the “man” Jesus recieved at his baptizm by John. If Thomas was meaning that Jesus was a God, he would have simply said ” my lord God” but the word “and” denotes that he was speaking of two seperate things, one was, the lord his (adoni, a human ruler) and the other was his (adonai his God) who was also present “in” the man Jesus. None of that makes Jesus himself the GOD that was “in” him.
Jesus had a God and it was not himself as this scripture among many other plainly shows
Eph 1:7….that the God “of ” our lord Jesus Christ , the Father of glory, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him.
You haven’t a single scripture where Jesus ever said he was the GOD that was “in” him, not even one. But we do have many scriptures that Jesus said the Father was “in” him.
Rom 8:9-11…..But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell “in” you. Now I’d any man have not the Spirit of Christ (the anointing spirit) , he is none of his. 10 , and if Christ (the anointing spirit) be “in” you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11, But if the Spirit of him (God the Father) that raised up (the man) Jesus from the dead dwell in you, “he” that raised up Christ (the anointed one) from the dead, shall “also” (in the same way) quicken (bring back to life) your mortal (dead) “bodies” by his Spirit that dwells “in” you.
1 Cor 3:15-16…..know you not that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells “in” you? 17, if any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destory; for the temple of God is Holy, which temple you are.
Carmel, you need to get your head out of the cloud your living in, and start seening who the real Jesus is.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Hi Carmel,
I honestly don’t know where to begin with you, as I give you scripture and you don’t address it.
I likewise see you filling in your own definitions but then I see a lack of scriptural support for those definitions, just other passages that you have added your own definitions to. Then I have proven to you by direct scripture how those definitions speak against scripture AND YOU FULLY IGNORE THEM.
Let’s look at what you did to this passage,
YOU:John 17:1 These things Jesus spoke: and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: the hour is come.
Glorify thy Son,
(AS GOD on earth)
that thy Son may glorify thee.
(AS MAN in heaven)
2As thou hast given him
power
OVER ALL FLESH,
that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
ME:
Let’s add VERSE 3,
John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said,Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Coloss 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
Psalms 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Isaiah 9:1 Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. 2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined….
Matthew 4:12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; 13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: 14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; 16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say,Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me TO preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, TO proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 TO proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; TO comfort all that mourn;
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Isaiah 22:21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. 22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. 23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father’s house.
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. …10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed…10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
AGAIN, Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
AGAIN, 1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God (EL- mighty one, god like one), The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
AGAIN, Coloss 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said,Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Acts 13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Isaiah 16:5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. …7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them,When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
John 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
AGAIN, Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
AGAIN, John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them,When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Matthew 3: 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Isaiah 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. 4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. 5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. 8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. 9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? 10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth? 11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. 12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. 13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
CARMEL, all these passages above SPEAK against your doctrine. You change who the verse is speaking of from a man God called to righteousness for to be a LIGHT, to a God, to a spirit, you add definitions, you ignore. Instead of apply God’s word to God’s word, you apply your interpretation to your interpretation.
Scriptural facts,
The One and Only True God who created all things by HIMSELF, ALONE, promised that He would be a Father to the son of David.
FIRST you have that son of David, THEN the One True God MAKES that son into His own Son according to His Spirit, resting His Spirit upon him without measure, AN ANOINTING, a calling to righteousness where God SENDS THIS Son out into the world directing all his ways TO do the work God commanded him to do, which was TO PREACH God’s Gospel, TO perform signs and miracles, TO deliver captives out of darkness, to be a LIGHT. He would not fail according to prophecy, God would hold his hand and keep him, to fulfill the covenant God made before the world was. God would keep him from sin to be like a lamb without spot or blemish.
This Son of Man declared God to make the One True God known to us, he declared God’s Gospel, the word of God and the will of God, of which the prophets had spoken also.
Jesus was begotten of God’s Spirit at the Jordan, declared to be God’s Son at the Jordan, then this Son having God’s Spirit rest upon him, AN ANOINTING (Chrio made into the Christos) WAS SENT out to do God’s work. Beginning in Galilee after the baptism John preached the Christ was sent.
When this man was sent to die on the cross, he had finished God’s work that God anointed/set him apart to do that was spoken by Isaiah in 61 and Jesus spoke in Luke 4.
This Son of Man was raised from the dead receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit and the mercies of David, which gave the eye witnesses proof that Jesus truly was the Son of God ACCORDING to that which was spoken to the fathers by the prophets.
When Jesus was raised from the dead he taught his disciples who he was ACCORDING to PROPHECY!
Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
The man God visited, rested His Spirit upon, sent out to fulfill His will, the son of David who God promised that he would not allow his flesh to decay, was raised up as firstborn of many, also fulfilling God’s word to David, that God would make David’s son into His firstborn. This man received glory, he received as was prophesied eternal life, an eternal crown, given dominion over all the works of God hands.
Carmel you add your own imagination,
YOU:
John 17:1 These things Jesus spoke: and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: the hour is come. Glorify thy Son, (AS GOD on earth) that thy Son may glorify thee.(AS MAN in heaven) 2 As thou hast given him power OVER ALL FLESH,that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
ME: You don’t apply God’s given clear word to God’s word, keep reading what is said after.
John 17:1 These things Jesus spoke: and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: the hour is come. Glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee. 2 As thou hast given him power OVER ALL FLESH,that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with (PARA- OF) thee before the world was. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
The Son is the son of David who God made into His own Son according to His Spirit. Verse 2 is of Psalms 8, a man who God visits and brings to glory and honor, who God gives this MAN (ADAM -HUMAN BEING) dominion over all the works of His hands.
Whom God SENT is the HUMAN, the son of Jesse who God rested His Spirit upon, AN ANOINTING. The WORK God gave him to do is given to you in Isaiah 61 and Luke 4.
This Son of Man is asking for the glory that the Son of Man had OF God before the world was. Carmel, God declared the END from the beginning. Carmel after Jesus was raised from the dead he taught of himself according to prophecy.
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
The JESUS raised up is a HUMAN, he received glory that God had purposed before the world was Carmel.
When Jesus spoke in John 17, he spoke KNOWING that which God promised before the world was, eternal life to man, of which he knew from God’s promise to David we read in Psalms 89, he would be firstborn of.
Carmel, Isaiah 9 is according to Isaiah’s other prophecies. In prophecy a HUMAN SHALL BE CALLED Wonderful Councilor an EL- a MIGHTY ONE, because God rested His Spirit of Council and Might upon him (Isaiah 11). He shall be called an Everlasting Father, because God raised him from the dead giving him eternal life and authority and said he would be a father unto the house of Israel (Isaiah 22). He shall be called a Prince of Peace, because he is the human, the son of Jesse, who God calls to righteousness for to be a LIGHT (Isaiah 42).
Carmel, Jesus teaches you in John 15 that we are cleansed through the words that he speaks, the words that are not his but God’s words. If those words are IN us that means Jesus is IN us.
Do you believe in Isaiah 11 Carmel? You certainly speak as if those words of God are just vanity to you.
Carmel, there is One Spirit it is God’s Spirit, and God can share that Spirit, it is of His mercy to do so. The SAME Spirit that rested upon Jesus in fullness, the Spirit of Wisdom, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD, was also given to men but upon measure.
The Spirit in fullness rested upon Jesus. He prophesied, he healed…etc..
The Spirit by measure rested upon men, where each one was given a different measure, some to prophecy, some to heal..etc.. that together they equaled the body of Christ.
The body of Christ represents the full measure of the Spirit given. The BODY of Christ, is the body of a man of flesh who God anointed with His Spirit not by measure.
Now the church is seen as the full body of Christ, as each member has a gift of the Spirit that equates to the full measure that Jesus received himself.
Carmel, we are redeemed because of God’s Spirit at work in a man of flesh, where God directed all his ways to bring him forth into perfection so that he would become our source for eternal salvation. DIVINE INTERVENTION, is God calling a man to righteousness, God being mindful of a man and visiting him, where the result is he is made a perfect human with eternal life, a firstborn of many.
Hi Carmel,
I want to address your interpretation of John 17 in a shorter post. I hope that you read all the passages I gave in my last post, so you can see where my understanding comes from, which is directly from scripture!
YOU: John 17:1 These things Jesus spoke: and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: the hour is come. Glorify thy Son, (AS GOD on earth) that thy Son may glorify thee. (AS MAN in heaven) 2 As thou hast given him power OVER ALL FLESH,that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
ME:
John 17:1 These things Jesus spoke: and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: the hour is come. Glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee. 2 As thou hast given him power OVER ALL FLESH,that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with (PARA- OF) thee before the world was.
Carmel my understanding is that,
That there is ONLY ONE True God and it is not Jesus.
Jesus IS the Son of Man from prophecy, he is the son of David who God promised He would be a Father to and set up as a king forever on his father David’s throne. God also promised David’s son that He would MAKE his son into His firstborn son.
Jesus IS the Son of Man from prophecy, he is the man (Adam-HUMAN) who God promised He would be mindful of and visit, the HUMAN who God promised He would give dominion of the works of His hands over to.
Jesus is The Christ according to Isaiah, according to Jesus’s own words quoting Isaiah, and according to Acts. The anointing was Jesus being set apart from his brethren by God’s Spirit descending and boding upon him not by measure. God then sent him out into the world, which according to scripture this occurred AFTER the baptism John preached, which makes perfect sense because after that John was a witness to God’s Spirit descending and coming to abode upon Jesus.
What also is perfect is that Jesus, the son of David, is declared God’s Son according to the Spirit by Paul, and we read from all the gospels that when the Spirit descended and came to abode on Jesus, God declared at that very moment, “This is my beloved Son.”
JESUS, the Son of Man and a Son of God according to the Spirit, is said to have been MADE perfect through suffering and because of that he BECAME our source for eternal salvation.
Carmel, if you do not recognize that the WORK God gave Jesus to do spoken of in John 17, was the very work spoken of by Isaiah in chapter 61, which Jesus quoted also, is that SAME WORK, you are totally blind!!
Jesus glorified God by saying he could do nothing of himself, he glorified God by preaching God’s Gospel, he glorified God by fulfilling all His commandments, he glorified God by showing the world the power of God’s Spirit upon a human, in that by God Jesus was able to condemn sin in the flesh and destroy the enmity.
JESUS is speaking in John 17, a MORTAL HUMAN about to DIE on the cross. What glory did God promise to humans before the world was Carmel? He promised eternal life to mankind. Jesus was asking for that glory that was OF God for man, before the world was. Carmel, the words the prophets spoke was of God’s foreknowledge, was of God’s determined purpose for He ALONE by HIMSELF created all things. When the prophet David declared that the flesh of his son would not see decay but everlasting life and would sit on a throne for eternity, this was God’s word before the world was. This word of God became true in the flesh when the flesh of Jesus was not allowed to see decay. This word of God, that was promised before time on earth began, was made true in the flesh of Jesus when God raised him from the dead. God made all things by reason of and for the Second Adam, JESUS! This is exactly why we read in Genesis that God did make humans in His own image. God knew when He promised eternal life, that it would come through a mortal human made perfect through God electing him out of his brethren to direct all his ways.
Hi Carmel,
John 17:1 These things Jesus spoke: and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: the hour is come. Glorify thy Son, (AS GOD on earth) that thy Son may glorify thee. (AS MAN in heaven) 2 As thou hast given him power OVER ALL FLESH,that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
ME: What you say is just so entirely wrong!
Psalm 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man (enowsh -mortal man), that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man (Adam -HUMAN), that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honor. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Psalms 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: 21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. 22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. 23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. 24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Jesus isn’t glorified as God on earth, he is glorified because as a human he condemned sin in the flesh and thus he as a HUMAN was not worthy of death but eternal life. He is glorified because as a human who feared death, he overcame and went to the cross being obedient to God. Jesus DIED and he slept the sleep of death with his brethren, but God before his body began to see decay He fulfilled His promise that was of His determinant purpose before the world was, God quickened his spirit raising him to life eternal, making him a firstborn of many HUMANS.
Jesus is glorified because he was a human who God perfected, and before the world was God by his determined purpose, had promised mankind a source to bring forth eternal salvation.
Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man (Adam -HUMAN) upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. 13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
Carmel, HOW is this HUMAN ABLE to let go God’s captives?
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Carmel your savior is a HUMAN according to a promise made by God, God’s word that had been with God before the world was, and then was made true in the flesh by God resting His Spirit upon a man, calling him to righteousness and directing all his ways. Your savior is a human of the seed of David who God raised up to fulfill all of God’s will.
Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Carmel, when Jesus was raised from the dead he did not teach that which you speak, FAR FROM IT, Jesus taught the disciples of the truth of God and of himself ACCORDING to the prophets and the psalms (Luke 24:44). Which is exactly what I have been doing, and you IGNORE.
Hi Jodi,
John 17:1 These things Jesus spoke: and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: the hour is come. Glorify thy Son, (AS GOD on earth) that thy Son may glorify thee. (AS MAN in heaven) 2 As thou hast given him power OVER ALL FLESH,that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
YOU: What you say is just so entirely wrong!
John13:31 Now the Son of Man is glorified:
Jodi, in this chapter “THE WORD” in Jesus’FLESH, the Son of Man, was very close to His death, more precise to His glorification, even more precise:
precisely ON HIS DEATH to become spirit,
TO RETURN TO HIS ORIGINAL STATE, BUT INTEGRATED ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST in Jesus’ Soul. GLORIFIED AS
JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN, CONFIRMED PRECISELY BY JESUS AGAIN IN
John13:31 …..and God.( in the Holy Ghost,) is glorified in him ( BECOMES MAN IN THE SON OF MAN! )
more accentuated in
32If God (IN THE HOLY GHOST) be glorified in him, ( BECOMES MAN IN THE SON OF MAN)
God also will glorify him( MAKE THE SON OF MAN) in himself: (GOD IN THE HOLY GHOST)
and immediately ( ON HIS DEATH) will he glorify him. (WILL MAKE HIM GOD)
SIMPLY THEY, THE HOLY GHOST and “THE WORD” the Son of Man, are not TWO ANYMORE but
TWO IN ONE FLESH EMBODIMENT OF
THE SON OF GOD
JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
