JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[Jodi]

Hi Lightenup,

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

The child’s father is David, and this child SHALL BE great and he SHALL BE called the Son of the Highest. 

1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will establish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

Mark 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. 10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased….28 And immediately his fame spread abroad throughout all the region round about Galilee.

Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased…Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,.. 14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

Jesus wasn’t GREAT until he was begotten by God of God’s Spirit where at that moment God declared that THIS man, Jesus of Nazareth the son of David, was His Son. This Jesus, the only begotten mortal man to receive of God’s Spirit in full measure, was then SENT out into the world beginning in Galilee where his fame spread because of all his words and deeds he did through God by God’s Spirit upon him.

Jesus tells you himself when he was anointed and sent in Luke 4, and his anointing is him having God’s Spirit abode upon him without measure. No other mortal man received of God’s Spirit without measure.

God sent JESUS, the Son of Man to save that which was lost AFTER God placed His Spirit upon him in fullness.

Luke 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty (forgiveness/pardon) them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Matthew 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,..28 Even as the Son of man CAME not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This isn’t just any Son of Man, this is the son of David of prophecy who God promised He would be a Father to. This isn’t just any Son of Man, this is the son of Jesse who would receive of God’s Spirit in fullness, the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD for the purpose TO BE SENT out TO bring forth liberty- pay the penalty for the world’s sins. 

Lightenup, hear the prophecy fulfilled in Jesus, the son of David promised to be made into God’s Son, Jesus had God’s Spirit upon him so that he would be SENT TO pay the penalty for the world’s sins. JESUS was God’s only Son who received of God’s Spirit not by measure for the purpose of being SENT to pay the penalty for the world’s sins. 

Jesus WAS the only mortal man begotten of God to fulfill all of God’s will, being of the seed of David and according to a promise God raised him up to be a savior. NOW Jesus IS the first begotten of the dead, where upon rising from the dead he was begotten of God as a firstborn of many brethren, and is a Son of God according to the Spirit of which he received according to a promise when he rose from the dead. 

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead

Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 

Jesus is a Son of God ACCORDING to a promise which was spoken by the prophets, he is not a Son according to pre-existing as a son. The Son of Man exalted, sitting at God’s right hand in heaven right now, was raised from the dead receiving the promised Holy Spirit, where on that day of his resurrection he was begotten of God becoming God’s eternal Son. 

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 

 

 

 

[Berean]

John.1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

BY HIM

HIM  SIGNIFIES A PERSON

BY

 

1223
dia
dia
dee-ah’
a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal, or occasional):–after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) … fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through(-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general importance.

note: strong places first:” a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal, or occasional”

EXAMPLES

1:17 For the law was given by(dia) Moses, [but] grace and truth came by(dia) Jesus Christ.

others means but not “dia”

John.6
[18] And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew.

18
h te qalassa anemou megalou pneontoV dihgeireto
6:18 And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew.

dihgeireto:

1326
diegeirw
diegeiro
dee-eg-i’-ro
from dia – dia 1223 and egeirw – egeiro 1453; to wake fully; i.e. arouse (literally or figuratively):–arise, awake, raise, stir up.

here  “dia”
John.12

11
oti polloi di auton uphgon twn ioudaiwn kai episteuon eiV ton ihsoun
12:11 Because that by reason(dia) of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.

 

10
kai gar oude dedoxastai to dedoxasmenon en toutw tw merei eneken thV uperballoushV doxhV
3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

Note/here this not the word “dia” but ” eneken”

 

1752
eneka
heneka

or heneken hen’-ek-en or heineken hi’-nek-en of uncertain affinity; on account of:–because, for (cause, sake), (where-)fore, by reason of, that.

 

one last

same grec word:” eneken”

10
makarioi oi dediwgmenoi eneken dikaiosunhV oti autwn estin h basileia twn ouranwn
5:10 Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

 

to follow

God bless

 

[Berean]

[9] And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

EPHESIANS 3

 

[Berean]

[9] And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
EPHESIANS 3

WHY THE BEST TRADUCTION OF THE BIBLE TRANSLATE ” BY JESUS CHRIST” AND not “FOR THE SAKE OF JESUS CHRIST” ????????

[Lightenup]

Jodi, regarding what the Jews thought about the Word in John 1:1…they likely connected that to the Memra of the OT Targums. Google Memra and John 1:1. For some reason when I post the link, my post doesn’t go through.

 

[Lightenup]

Jodi, regarding the Psalm 2:7 passage about “today I have begotten you,” I believe that refers to the begetting from the grave. He is the firstBORN from the dead.

[mikeboll64]

Lightenup:  The only difference is one cell is the begetter cell, the other is the begotten cell.

The original cell was alive before the other one ever existed, and we could consider that situation as the latter cell being created/begotten/brought forth by the former.  So the Jesus cell would still owe his very existence to the Father cell that gave him that existence.  Also, the Father has a mind and a will, unlike the cell.  He didn’t just undergo an uncontrollable cloning event, and out popped Jesus.  He chose to create another entity as His firstborn Son – not an equal clone of Himself.  Plus, the latter cell would “know” EVERYTHING the former cell knows.  That is not the case with Jesus and his and our God, Yahweh.

Kathi, on a side note, are you aware that contagious viruses don’t even exist – and never have?

[mikeboll64]

Ed: Quit trying to change what Scripture says to fit your beliefs!  …Jesus did not create nor help create in any way.

I haven’t changed a single scripture of which I’m aware.  There is one God who created the heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything in them. (Acts 4)  He did that THROUGH His holy servant Jesus.  I don’t know what “through” means though.  God created you through your parents.  You parents had no power of their own to create you, so we could honestly say that God, by Himself, created you.  But He chose to do that THROUGH your parents, and in the case of Jesus’ flesh existence, through only one parent.  So did Mary have any “hands on” involvement in the creation of Jesus as a man?  Did your parents exercise any will or have direct involvement in the creation of Ed J?  In the latter case, of course they did.  But Yahweh still – alone and by Himself – created Ed J.  He did it through your parents, but could have just as easily raised you up from rocks, right?

So I don’t know the answer, man.  All I know is that Jehovah ALONE is the creative force behind the heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything in them… and that those things were created through His only begotten Son.  I assume there was some “hands on” or at least some creative input from Jesus and God’s other spirit sons (Let US make man in OUR image), but the Bible doesn’t tell us exactly how it went down.

[mikeboll64]

Lightenup: Mike, you asked:

Can one creator have two different wills?

Yes when the two are perfectly united.

That seems counterintuitive to me.  How could there be two DIFFERENT wills, yet perfectly united as one single will?  Perfectly united implies two identical wills, therefore only one total will.  But we know Jesus has a will of his own, and willingly conforms his own will to align with his God’s will, right?

[mikeboll64]

Lightenup:  When you get stuck with the fact that the Bible said all things were made by God alone and also it says that God made all things through the Son, it really is as simple as recognizing that Jehovah God is both the God of gods (the Father) and Lord of lords (the Son) two persons.

So then…

1 Cor 8:6

for us there is but one God, Jehovah, from whom all things came, and there is but one Lord, Jehovah, through whom all things came ?

How come Jehovah God tells us that Jehovah God is his and our God?

[mikeboll64]

Berean:  HE CAN’T HAVE ORIGINALLY BEEN A CREATURE OF GOD.

But at least 4 different scriptures say he is.  And “before all things” doesn’t change that.  Your “fullness of the Godhead” scripture is a bad translation. So is “and the Word was God”.

I thought we agreed that the Father was the only Almighty God, and that He created all things.  Maybe I was misunderstanding you.  Anyway, I’m glad you realize that the Bible is chock full of dozens of different gods.  That one stumbles the majority of people due to the “monotheistic” tradition taught by men but nowhere in the Bible.

[mikeboll64]

Jodi: Hi All,

Passages that Gene and I speak of are passed over time and time again and are NOT APPLIED, they are disregarded. You are far from the truth when you refuse to apply scripture with scripture.

In all fairness, you include a LOT of scriptures in virtually every post, Jodi.  😉  That’s perfectly fine, but I personally only have a limited amount of time.  I can’t make a post that addresses all that stuff at once.  The scriptures you posted this time teach that Jesus is the Messiah that Jehovah foretold He’d raise up for Israel.  I agree with that.  But none of them indicate, even slightly, that Jesus didn’t preexist his flesh.  On the other hand, there are dozens that clearly state he did.

Just for starters, how do you explain/deny that God created all things through Jesus?

[Lightenup]

Hi Mike,

I said: The only difference is one cell is the begetter cell, the other is the begotten cell.

You said:
The original cell was alive before the other one ever existed, and we could consider that situation as the latter cell being created/begotten/brought forth by the former.  So the Jesus cell would still owe his very existence to the Father cell that gave him that existence.  Also, the Father has a mind and a will, unlike the cell.  He didn’t just undergo an uncontrollable cloning event, and out popped Jesus.  He chose to create another entity as His firstborn Son – not an equal clone of Himself.  Plus, the latter cell would “know” EVERYTHING the former cell knows.  That is not the case with Jesus and his and our God, Yahweh.

The original cell’s living substance became the living substance of both resulting cells. New substance was added equally to both to complete the unzipped original DNA strands. Both resulting cells have within them the living substance that existed within the original cell. The Nucleus of the original cell, divides and half stays in one cell and half goes to the other. No new nucleus is created, it is simply divided.

You said: He chose to create another entity as His firstborn Son – not an equal clone of Himself.

Where do you get that in the Bible? He may have chosen to have a Son but this binary fission shows us that it is not a creative process but a reproductive process. Like the binary fission process, the living substance in both the Father and the Son would be as equal in age as the living substance in the original condition since it is the same living substance portioned out equally to each cell. Also, how did you know that He didn’t clone Himself?  As far as the latter cell knowing everything the former cell knows, well each cell has the same makeup to be perfect and divine and all that entails but each cell experiences a different position and relationship…one is on the right, one is on the left for instance, one is the begetter, one is the begotten. The begetter does not experience how it is to be the begotten and visa versa.

 

Here are a couple videos on the process:

DNA Replication   https://youtu.be/TNKWgcFPHqw

Binary Fission   https://youtu.be/OAcz-tFGY0Y

[Lightenup]

Mike

Mike, you asked: Can one creator have two different wills?

LU: Yes when the two are perfectly united.

Mike: That seems counterintuitive to me.  How could there be two DIFFERENT wills, yet perfectly united as one single will?  Perfectly united implies two identical wills, therefore only one total will.  But we know Jesus has a will of his own, and willingly conforms his own will to align with his God’s will, right?

I didn’t say that the two wills were perfectly united as one single will. The two wills are perfectly united to do the will of the Father acknowledging the Father as the authority. This doesn’t make the Son’s will less wise or less in anyway but demonstrates the perfect wisdom and love of the Son.

For instance, you and your father have two distinct wills. If your father was perfect in wisdom and in every way, it would behoove you to do as he wills you to do and not defy his will.

[Lightenup]

Mike,

LU: When you get stuck with the fact that the Bible said all things were made by God alone and also it says that God made all things through the Son, it really is as simple as recognizing that Jehovah God is both the God of gods (the Father) and Lord of lords (the Son) two persons.

Mike: So then…1 Cor 8:6 for us there is but one God, Jehovah, from whom all things came, and there is but one Lord, Jehovah, through whom all things came ? How come Jehovah God tells us that Jehovah God is his and our God?

My response:

The Father is the head (the God) of Christ and Christ is the head (the God) of the church, therefore the Father is God to both the Son and the church albeit indirectly to the church since He has placed Christ in the direct position to the church after the resurrection.

If you are referring to this: John 20:7

Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'”

I believe that Jesus and Mary both recognized Jehovah as God before the resurrection but the role of  “father” was new to Mary as the resurrection now made her a child of God too. That is how I understand this anyway.

These have all been good questions, Mike. I am avoiding the virus topic since I came back here to post partly to get away from the virus. Maybe you can enlighten us in the virus thread that has begun elsewhere in the forum.

Btw, don’t work so hard.

Blessings, LU

[Jodi]

Hi Lightenup,

I hope you have more to say concerning my post that begins with applying Luke 1 to Chronicles 17. 

The child to be born IS David’s son and that child will be great and will be called the Son of the Highest. First you have David’s son THEN you have God saying that He will be a Father unto this son of David.

YOU: Jodi, regarding the Psalm 2:7 passage about “today I have begotten you,” I believe that refers to the begetting from the grave. He is the firstBORN from the dead.

ME: And who is “he”, he is the son of David who is promised to sit on his father David’s throne forever according to the flesh, and is God’s Son ACCORDING to the Spirit, where we read that when he was raised from the dead he received the promised Holy Spirit and the mercies of David.

Jesus receives promises of the LORD as he himself from the beginning was a promise from the LORD in God’s WORD, where a man would execute the LORD’S purpose, which was eternal life for humans, of which is what you are told Jesus is himself, a human. 

All things created through and for- through (by reason of) Jesus we have eternal life from the LORD as Jesus received the fullness of God’s Spirit at the river Jordan and was SENT into the world to pay the penalty for our sins, and for Jesus, as he is given eternal life himself from the LORD first, becoming a firstborn of many brethren. He then as a firstborn of many receives the inheritance of a firstborn Son, being given dominion over all the works of the LORD, where he is the man ordained of God to judge the world in righteousness (Acts 17).

 

[Lightenup]

Hi Jodi,

You seem to only accept Jehovah as the God of gods and not also the Lord of lords. That may be what keeps you from understanding the Son as both God and man. You spend many words trying to convince us that Jesus is a man. Who is debating that here? Many of us believe that Jesus existed in another manner before he was brought forth into Mary’s womb to become that man though.

Deuteronomy 10:17 “For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.

Jesus is the Lord of lords here.

[Lightenup]

Jodi,

1 Chronicles 17 is about Solomon as the son of David that builds God’s house. No doubt that the passage has implications to Christ since Christ ultimately ends up on David’s throne eternally but the passage is more directly about Solomon.

[Jodi]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for replying!

YOU: Just for starters, how do you explain/deny that God created all things through Jesus?

ME: I will make this as short as I can 😉

Well for starters on my end, I do not at all deny that God created all things through Jesus. I declare it and find it to be a most profound truth, as I know that God declared the End from the beginning, where God’s purpose for His creation would be executed through a man whom God calls (Isaiah 46), and it is Jesus who IS that man.

God says that He stretched forth the heavens alone and spreadeth abroad the earth by Himself, and as I just said, from the beginning God declared that a man would execute the purpose that God had declared for the creation that He Himself made. Hang on that for a bit. 

The PURPOSE: God tells us in Isaiah 45 that He made earth not in vain, that He made it to be inhabited, and as we are told by Titus, God promised to us, before the world, was eternal life. 

Eternal life comes to us through a man who shed his blood. Jesus is that man and he thus executed God’s purpose that God had declared from the beginning.

Eternal life does not come to us because God sent a spirit son down to earth. Eternal life comes to us because Jesus as the promised son of Jesse, had God’s Spirit descend upon him in full measure, an anointing, where he was SENT out to pay the penalty for our sins (Luke 4, which is God’s word of Isaiah 61 fulfilled in the flesh of the man Jesus).

The word through is popularly used to mean “by reason of”/”because of”

God created all things thus by reason of and for the man JESUS who would execute God’s purpose that God declared from the beginning.

JESUS is the NAME given to a human child who is said would receive the throne of his father David, and who would be great and would be called the Son of the Highest.

Look at the gospels, Jesus isn’t SENT, nor is he a witness to the people of his greatness, nor is he called the Son of God, until after the Spirit comes to rest upon him in full measure. In all the Gospels God declares Jesus who is the son of David to be His Son upon him receiving the Spirit not by measure, and THEN THIS Son we read is SENT where his fame begins to spread in Galilee as Jesus executes God’s will and purpose for His creation that He alone by Himself created.

 

[Proclaimer]

The original cell’s living substance became the living substance of both resulting cells. New substance was added equally to both to complete the unzipped original DNA strands. Both resulting cells have within them the living substance that existed within the original cell. The Nucleus of the original cell, divides and half stays in one cell and half goes to the other. No new nucleus is created, it is simply divided.

While we can make analogies like this about the Father and Son, we already know from scripture that the Father is above even the Son and much greater.

“I am the vine; you are the branches.

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.  He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes.

My point: The son is not cloned vine if you know what I mean.

[Author]

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