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T8…..Did you miss the part that say “and the word “was GOD”? GOD AND HIS WORD ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING, WHY STILL THE Glory that belongs to the Father and give it to JESUS CHRIST? YOU MUST ALSO HAVE MISSED WHERE MOSES said the LORD, would raise up “FROM THEM A PROPHET, “LIKE” HIM. SO YOU BELIEVEJesus was not ACTUALLY like him right?, but was completely different and GOD DID not raise him up from A tribe of ISREAL, but instead morphed him from one state of existence, into a human being. But not so much as a singl scriptureeven hints at that.
As i have said you have come part way out for false teachings, but not all the way out, on the one hand you say JESUS WAS NOT A GOD,BUT ON THE OTHER YOU PORTRAY HIM AS A GOD, NOT A “real” HUMAN BEING LIKE WE ARE. So if Jesus was not truly a human being exactly like the rest of humanity, then his death could not apply to the human race either, that is because to you he was not a human, like we are at all. You are moving JESUS AWAY FROM HIS BROTHERS AND SISTERS BY YOUR false assumptions. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
t8,
Please explain how and why the Word was WITH God.
Look at these poetic words of Isaiah where he speaks of the word departing from God to do their task(s).
Isaiah 55:11Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
11
so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.Scripture tells us the word is both with him when he speaks it and will return to him after it has accomplished the his desires.
John’s words sound poetic but so do Isaiah’s and other writers.
t8,
Please explain how the world was made through him yet did not recognise him when he appeared to them.
Scripture teaches us that.
Hebrews 11:3Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
t8,
Please explain why he is called “The Word of God” yet wasn’t that particular Word of God that was WITH God in the beginning (even though we are told that Jesus too was in the beginning).
I assume you are addressing the words of a passage in Revelations that states:
Revelation 19:13Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
the short definition of Strong’s 3686 is ” name, character, reputation” according to biblehub.com.
His name is Jesus;given to Mary by an angel. His character is the word of God.
t8,
Please explain why it is written that God made all things through him and for him with no reference to the Word in those particular verses.
You are speaking of the passage from Colossians 1 that speaks of the word that is flesh. At that time Paul is address the union that contains both the human Jesus and the word of God.
Considering that it is reasonable to conclude God made all things through the word part of the union and either for the union of Jesus Christ and the Word.
The fact Paul does not mention the word of God only means he assumes his readers will understand it is there just like you assume Son means Jesus Christ.
T8…..ANOTHER POINT BROTHER IS THIS Luk 2:52… “And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.”
If he preexisted how could he increase in wisdom and favor with GOD. IF God created EVERYTHING THROUGH him, how could he increase in favor with GOD, how could you get in more favor WITH GOD, IF HE CREATED EVERY THING THROUGH YOU?
Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
This scripture explains your concerns.
He existed in the form of God and emptied himself and was made in the likeness of men.
So he was born like us in the respect that he was a baby who had to grow up and learn like us. He had to learn to walk, talk, and understand the scriptures too. It took time, but he increased in wisdom and stature and found favour with God, just as we can. He came in the flesh and lived among us as one of us. He did this so he could save us because death came into the world through one man, so God gave life through one man, the man Christ Jesus.
I did answer it by pointing out every human being comes in the flesh. The word took on the characteristic of humanity. In short both came in the flesh. Jesus Christ embodies the word that comes out of God mouth. For the same reason he is also called the power and wisdom of God. (1 Corinthians 1:24)
Please explain which of these is actually Jesus:
- Jesus is the union/combination of flesh and word;
- Jesus is the flesh and the word was in him;
- Jesus was the word that was with God, but came in the flesh for our sake;
- None of the above.
T8…..Did you miss the part that say “and the word “was GOD”?
Did you really think I missed that?
The Word was theos. We have all debated this one too many times for me to bring it up here. But whatever the view, none of them back your stance that Jesus is but a man who was created 2000 or so years ago. Because God made all things through the son of God and for him and the same thing is said of the Word.
The Word was theos can be read as the Word was divine, due to the lack of definite article. We already know that Jesus existed in the form of God and EMPTIED himself right, and came in the flesh. But let’s take the view that the Word was actually God himself.
So the beginning spoken of is when the Word was WITH God. We know that God has no beginning. He is eternal. So previous to the beginning when the Word was WITH God, the Word was actually God. Thus God had the word within himself, and the beginning spoken of here is when the Word was brought forth from God so that the Word was WITH God.
To you, Jesus is a 2000 year old man. To me, he is the Word of God who was with God and then came in the flesh. He is even called ‘The Word of God’ in case there was any confusion.
Have you answered this yet?
The Word was with God right. Please explain.
JESUS WAS NOT A GOD,BUT ON THE OTHER YOU PORTRAY HIM AS A GOD, NOT A “real” HUMAN BEING LIKE WE ARE.
No. He was the Word that became flesh. He existed in the form of God, emptied himself, came in the flesh, died for our sins, rose from the dead, and is seated at the right-hand of the Father in the glory he had with him before the Cosmos.
See that Gene. I do not say he is a god/God, he is the Word of God who came in the flesh. God made all things through him and for him.
He came to his own and even though all things were created through him, they did not recognise him.
You do not recognise Jesus as the one whom God created the cosmos through.
In your religion, who was the first to be with God? Michael? Gabriel?
Scripture teaches us that.
Hebrews 11:3Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.John 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.Kerwin. Who is HE in this verse?
And so, t8, what was that that was spoken through him, if as you say “he was the Word of God that was made flesh”? He stated that:
John 12:
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
And he stated in John 6:
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
He was in the form of God in his ministry on earth and is as the head of the church as God’s Christ.
John 5:
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
And after his resurrection he stated:
Matthew 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
You have just explained why he is called the Word of God. He chooses to speak that which the Father says, and does not speak for himself.
At the cross he asked God to remove the cup from him, but not his will but the Father’s will. So he also chooses to do the will of God.
He existed in the form of God, emptied himself, came in the flesh, was obedient until death, rose from the dead, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.
t8,
Unless the “he” in John 1:10 is John the Baptist then their is no evidence beyond the opinion of a number of translators that the correct English pronoun is he. There is no actual Koine Greek pronoun behind the “he” and the one that is behind the “him” in “created by him” does not go with the noun “light” in verse 9 as the Koine word behind “light” is a neuter gendered noun and the word behind the “him” is a masculine gendered pronoun.
Assuming John is not speaking of John the Baptist whose name is a masculine noun it follows that John has began speaking of the word once more. The fact he mentioned “the world was created by him” in verse and “All things were created by him” in verse 3 is the context that confirms the word has one more become the subject of John’s writing.
I think it is poor pronoun use in English but John did not write in English. In English Light is the noun that would be substituted for by the “him” but that does not work in Koine Greek.
I am not sure why you ask who the “he” is except to reveal that English and Koine Greek grammar are quite different.
t8,
1) Jesus is the union/combination of flesh and word;
2) Jesus is the flesh and the word was in him;
3) Jesus was the word that was with God, but came in the flesh for our sake;
4) None of the above.I am sorry but I do understand your question correctly as 1,2, and 3 sound paraphrases of one another.
Jesus is the human being but he is also flesh and word since God’s Word took on the characteristics of humanity by uniting with him. He is also the word that united with flesh for our sake.
In Jewish thought, a name is not merely an arbitrary designation, a random combination of sounds. The name conveys the nature and essence of the thing named. It represents the history and reputation of the being named. (Tracey R Rich, “Name of G_d“)
The nature and essence of the Word of God took on the characteristics of the nature and essence of humanity, aka flesh.
In short the two become one.
Another way to say it referencing the words of Jeremiah 31:31 is that God put his word in Jesus and wrote it on his heart and mind.
The word was with God before he placed it in Jesus. He did that and wrote it on Jesus’ mind and heart for our sake.
Unless the “he” in John 1:10 is John the Baptist then their is no evidence beyond the opinion of a number of translators that the correct English pronoun is he.
Besides the context being about Jesus, lets imagine that Jesus is not the Word of God and make a list of attributes of the Word and Jesus.
John 1 is clearly a chapter about Jesus. In fact the whole book of John is about Jesus.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Now in case you haven’t noticed, all that is spoken here of as the Word is also spoken of as Jesus elsewhere in scripture.
The Word: With God in the beginning
Through him, all things were made
In him is life
Is the true light
Was in the world
The world was made through himJesus: with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
and through whom also he made the universe.
I am the way and the truth and the life
I am the light of the world
God sent his Son into the world
For in him all things were createdBelow are the scriptures from where I made the quotes under the heading ‘Jesus’, just to prove they are indeed talking specifically about Jesus and not the Word:
John 17:5
“I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.John 8:12
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”John 3:17
God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.Colossians 1:16
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.I am sorry but I do understand your question correctly as 1,2, and 3 sound paraphrases of one another.
Kerwin, I will get back to you on this one..
A quick question for now.
For you, is the Word alive or is it a force of some kind?
T8……let me paraphrase it for you, JOHN 1:1-… In the beginning was the word, the word was with GOD and was GOD, HE (GOD) was with in the beginning. Through HIM (GOD) all things were made; without HIM (GOD) nothing was was made that has been made. In HIM (GOD) was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines into darkness, and the darkness does not overcome it.
There was a man who was sent from GOD his name was John. He came as a witness to testify of that light, so that through him all might believe, he himself was not that light, he came only as a witness to the light.
The true light that gives light to everyone was comming into the world, HE (GOD THE FATHER) WAS IN THE WORLD, AND THOUGH THE WORLD WAS MADE BY HIM (GOD THE FATHER) , THE WORLD DID NOT RECONIZE HIM (GOD THE FATHER).
DO “YOU”, RECONIZE, GOD THE FATHER “IN” JESUS IS THE QUESTION T8. It was God the Father who was in the world in his son and our fellow human brother JESUS.
Can you say as Thomas did , my lord (adoni) the human ruler JESUS, “AND” my GOD (adonia) THE ALMIGHTY GOD , can you see that clearly t8?
peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
@t8,
Sorry for being so slow to respond.
Hebrews 4:12New English Translation (NET Bible)
12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any double-edged sword, piercing even to the point of dividing soul from spirit, and joints from marrow; it is able to judge the desires and thoughts of the heart.
It is not a living creature though Jesus, who now gives it body, is.
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