JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[kerwin]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2014,05:51)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 16 2014,05:01) kerwin, divine nature is not the ONLY nature of God. do you understand? if you say you have the nature of God, then you should be almighty, eternal, you are everywhere, all knowing, etc. go back to school boy Jammin, Thank you for answering my question. Do your think “image of God” and “form of God” mean the same thing?

Jammin,

I bumped this because somehow my words got confused and I corrected them. Please answer. Thank you.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
We ask questions of you to clarify where you are coming from.
Preconceptions can cause you to refuse to listen

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2014,16:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2014,23:26) Nick, jammin, Gene, and all: We all seem to agree that the “God” in John 1:1b (the Word was with “God”) is “the Father”. But is the “God” in 1:1c (the Word was “God”) also “the Father”? YES or NO? Mike, If John 1:1 was translated even more literally than it is then it would go “the word is with the god and the word is god”.  Even without the capitalization it is clear “the god” is Jehovah but the missing “the”  tells us the word is god(divine) in nature. If John wanted to make the point the word was the God he would have simply added “the” in John 1:1c. So the answer is no.

Well done, Kerwin!

jammin, did you notice that Kerwin said the same thing your Mr. Wallace said? If John wanted anyone to think that the word was the god he was with, John would have said, “and the word was the god”.

How about you, Nick? Gene? jammin? Wakeup? It is understood that the Word was with “the Father”.

But I want to know if you guys think the Word WAS “the Father”. Do you? YES or NO?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Scripture says the Word was with God.
But we have no deep conception of the heavenly ways of God so we should not try to force them into human concepts

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2014,18:28)

Hi MB, We ask questions of you to clarify where you are coming from. Preconceptions can cause you to refuse to listen

Yes Nick………

That's also why I ask questions of YOU. Is it fair that I answer yours, but you don't answer mine?

Quote

Is the Holy Spirit of God?

Yes Nick. Why, do you suppose the Holy Spirit OF the Father actually IS the Father?

Quote

Is the Father the Son?

No Nick.

Quote

Is God in you?

God is METAPHORICALLY “in me”. But NO, the entirety of Jehovah God Almighty does not dwell inside of me.

Now, I've answered all yours. When will you answer my ONE question?

The Word was with the Father. But was the Word the Father? YES or NO?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2014,19:02)

Hi MB, Scripture says the Word was with God. But we have no deep conception of the heavenly ways of God so we should not try to force them into human concepts

Can we humanly conceive that Jehovah our God is one? If so, can Jehovah God be WITH Jehovah God?

Why do you buck and rail so hard against answering simple questions, Nick? What are you afraid of?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You have had many answers from me but none have come back from you. Why is this?

How can God be with God is not for human reasoning to solve.
Study scripture

Jesus said he was in the Father and the Father was in him so how does this fit with your separate person idea?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
“Can we humanly conceive..”
is the wrong way to approach spiritual things

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 17 2014,07:19)

Hi MB, “Can we humanly conceive..” is the wrong way to approach spiritual things

Nick

what would you say

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Acts 5 3-5
To lie to the Spirit is to lie to God.

Is God at work in you to will and to do?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2014,19:13)

Hi MB, 1.  You have had many answers from me but none have come back from you. Why is this? 2.  How can God be with God is not for human reasoning to solve. Study scripture 3.  Jesus said he was in the Father and the Father was in him so how does this fit with your separate person idea?

1.  I have?  All I ever see is you running away from my questions.  I'm still waiting for you to tell me if the Word was “the Father” in the beginning.

2.  Study scripture with WHAT?  You try to prohibit us from using our God-given brains, logic, reasoning, and common sense.  What is there left to study scripture WITH?  

Your statement, “How can God be with God is not for human reasoning to solve” is just your way of saying that you KNOW it makes no God-given sense for Jehovah God to have been WITH Jehovah God.

You KNOW that your understanding goes against logic, reasoning, and common sense – things that God Himself gave to us.

I have offered you a viable and SENSIBLE alternative to Jehovah God being WITH Jehovah God.  I have offered you the scriptures that SUPPORT that alternative.

But you don't like that alternative, because you have a PERSONAL WISH for Jesus to have been nothing more than you are right now.  That understanding makes you feel more empowered to accomplish the things Jesus accomplished.  And you LIKE that feeling of empowerment.

So because of that, you will opt for the NONSENSICAL understanding, and settle for making quips about how God gave us all such TERRIBLE reasoning abilities that there is no way any of us can “figure out” how Jehovah God could have been WITH Jehovah God.  How lame.

3.  Well, if God can be IN Jesus, then it's ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that God ISN'T Jesus.  If Jesus can be IN God, then it's ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that Jesus ISN'T God.

The same can be said when the word WITH is used.  If God can be WITH Nick, then it's clear that God ISN'T Nick.

If Mike can be WITH Jesus, then Mike ISN'T Jesus.

And if the Word can be WITH Jehovah God, then the Word ISN'T Jehovah God.

None of this is rocket science, Nick.  It's ALL so simple that a child can easily understand it.  So go back in your mind to the time when you were a child, and ask 5 year old Nick if Jehovah God could be WITH Jehovah God.

What would 5 year old Nick say?  What would the Nick WITHOUT an “equality with Jesus fetish” say?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2014,20:22)

Hi MB, Acts 5 3-5 To lie to the Spirit is to lie to God.

Yes Nick.

And to lie to the EAR of God would be to lie to God.

To lie to the MESSENGER of God would be to lie to God.

Is the EAR of God “the Father”?

Is the MESSENGER of God “the Father”?

Is the HOLY SPIRIT OF THE FATHER “the Father”?

Nick, when will you answer? How many times must I keep answering YOUR questions while you refuse to answer mine?

Is that your idea of “fair”?

I want to know if you think “the Father” was WITH “the Father” in the beginning. YES or NO?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Does scripture say the WORD was the Father?
Not that I can see.

You certainly put a lot of faith in your logic but is it useful enough to study the ways of God?

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2014,04:26)

Nick, jammin, Gene, and all: We all seem to agree that the “God” in John 1:1b (the Word was with “God”) is “the Father”. But is the “God” in 1:1c (the Word was “God”) also “the Father”? YES or NO?

Mike……. GOD and his word is the same thing, just as your words and you are. Since words come from and are produced by Spirit in a person, and Jesus said GOd was a Spirit, them YES, God and his words are one from the same being.

What you are doing is like this…..IN the beginning, The heart was with the man , and the heart was someone different then the man. Now I ask you can you separate the heart and still have a man. While you can take the heart out of the man he will then cease to exist, So if you can remove God's Word from him then he would cease to exist also. Why because words come from spirits and where there is no sound word then there is no sound spirit nor sound life either.

Jesus said the “WORDS” I am speaking to you “ARE” Spirit “and “ARE” LIFE. Now put them together and what do you get, SPIRIT creates our intellects and our intellects bring forth Words, “intelligent utterances” they work together.

Jesus was saying WORDS are FROM SPIRIT  and SPIRIT is what LIFE consists off. YOUR words COME from You, from the spirits working in you and by speaking then you are showing us who you are  and how you think, and rather you like it or not that is you speaking those word and those words are you, they are not someone else, unless you are quoting some one else as Jesus was. GOD the FATHER was IN HIM and speaking HIS words THROUGH HIM by the SPIRIT OF GOD,  That dwelt “IN” him.

None of that ever made Jesus a God or DEVINE himself , nor does it make Jesus himself GOD'S WORD. GOD and His words are one , just as your heart and you are one, physically speaking , and your words and you are one and the same spiritually speaking.

Peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2014,20:46)

Hi MB, Does scripture say the WORD was the Father? Not that I can see.

Do you know of another “God” besides “the Father”? YES or NO?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
There are many gods as you quote
There is the god of this world

But for us there is one God, the Father..

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Do you really think that for you there are two Gods?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Do you think that if the WORD was with God the Word must be an entirely separate being from God or do you lack understanding of God's ways?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 16 2014,20:55)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2014,04:26) Nick, jammin, Gene, and all: We all seem to agree that the “God” in John 1:1b (the Word was with “God”) is “the Father”. But is the “God” in 1:1c (the Word was “God”) also “the Father”? YES or NO? Mike……. GOD and his word is the same thing……. YES,  God and his words are one from the same being.

I'll take that as, “YES Mike.  I believe the Word of God WAS the Father.

So then you must believe that “the Father” is the one who became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son, right?

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 16 2014,20:55)

What you are doing is like this…..IN the beginning, The heart was with the man , and the heart was someone different then  the man.

And what YOU are doing is like this:

In the beginning was the heart.  And the heart was WITH God, and the heart WAS the very God it was WITH.

Does that make sense, Gene?

How about if we used “leg”?  The leg was WITH Jehovah, and the leg WAS Jehovah.

How about “love”?  The love was WITH Jehovah, and the love WAS Jehovah.

Oh I know!  Let's use “commandment”, since the phrase “the word of God” often refers to commandments God has given.  The commandment was WITH Jehovah, and the commandment WAS Jehovah.

Do you worship a “commandment” as your God, Gene?  

Ooh, ooh!  This is even better, since God also spoke curses:  The curse was WITH Jehovah, and the curse WAS Jehovah..

How's that one, Gene?  Is God a “curse” – just because He SPOKE a curse?

Just answer the last one.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2014,21:21)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2014,20:46) Hi MB, Does scripture say the WORD was the Father? Not that I can see. Do you know of another “God” besides “the Father”?  YES or NO?

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2014,21:25)

Hi MB, There are many gods as you quote…..

And do you believe that John 1:1 speaks about one of those OTHER gods being with Jehovah God in the beginning?

If not, then tell me another God besides the Father that you think WOULD fit into John 1:1.

If there are none, then why not just come out and say that since the Father is the ONLY God mentioned in 1:1, that verse teaches us that “the Father” was WITH “the Father”?

Why the charades?  Let's just get down to it, Nick.

Nick, how many gods are mentioned in John 1:1?

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