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Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 13 2014,19:34) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 11 2014,01:46) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 10 2014,07:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,07:28) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 09 2014,12:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2014,07:38) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 08 2014,14:33) 1. God's word commands all things that are in heaven and on earth and so does Jesus. 2. God's word is a mediator between God and man and is Jesus.
Please explain these claims, Kerwin.1. Do you believe God's word is a living being in heaven who goes about making commands to other beings in heaven and on earth?
2. Are you saying that God's spoken words are living beings who come and talk to us about things God said? And that we can ask these words some questions, and they will take our questions to God and get back to us with His answers?
Mike,I personified God's word to show its relationship to Jesus.
So what are the “YES” or “NO” answers to my questions?
Mike,Do you understand what it means when you personalize a word?
Mike,You asked questions that implied a lack of knowledge and so asked if “you know what it means when you personalize a word?”
Do you withdraw you questions or are going to answer mine to demonstrate you have the knowledge to understand the answer I already gave to your questions?
Mike,Quote
I personified God's word to show its relationship to Jesus.Is the answer to both your questions.
In other words I “representation of a thing or abstraction as a person”
Listen up Ed J Jr………. You are being purposely obstinate here, the same way Ed was being when he received his tile.I'm GUESSING from your given answer that your REAL answer is “NO” to both questions.
But I don't want to GUESS, Kerwin. Are you saying YES or NO to my questions?
I want a REAL answer because I have a follow-up question for you.
Quote (carmel @ Jan. 14 2014,13:38) SO ANSWER THIS NOW! WHAT DO YOU THINK WISDOM IS?
IS IT AN ATTRIBUTE OF GOD ONLY?
IS IT A SPIRIT BEING ONLY?
OR IS IT BOTH SPIRIT BEING AND AN ATTRIBUTE OF GOD?
Hi Charles,It depends on the context.
The word “wisdom” most often refers to an attribute of not only God, but of MANY beings.
On rare occasions, like in Proverbs 8:22-26 and 1 Corinthians 1:24, the word is used metaphorically to refer to an actual person. In both of those cases, the person is a spirit being who belongs to God.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 15 2014,12:06) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 13 2014,19:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,08:40) 1. And how about NOW? Is he the Son of God at God's right hand? Or has he somehow become the God he used to be again?
2. Also, if you say he was NOT God Himself, but the SON OF God when he was on earth, do you suppose his disciples also knew this fact? And if they did know as much as you know, and so realized Jesus WASN'T actually God Himself while he was on earth, do you suppose they really “worshiped” him on earth as if he WAS God Himself?
1.The Word of God is now next to his father.2.The apostles are well informmed,they knew Jesus was the
Son of God,not God.THOU ART THE MESSIAH;THE SON OF
GOD. *ON THIS ROCK (FOUDATION) WILL I BUILD MY
CHURCH*.
They also understood that Jesus is the Word of God in the
flesh. But this full understanding came at pentecost.
They addressed Jesus as my Lord: Many kneeled down
before him.
1. So the same Word who used to actually BE God now sits NEXT TO God?Is this your FINAL answer? That the Word is in no way God Almighty Himself?
2. I agree that none of the disciples ever thought Jesus actually WAS the very God who sent him into the world. They KNEW different, right?
Does kneeling before a man on earth automatically constitute an act of WORSHIP? Or could it simply be an act of paying homage to one you revere and adore?
MIkeb.1.Yes.the Word of God is now sitting next to God.
2.The apostles were filled with the spirit of truth at pentecost.
3.Kneeling down before a king as to honour him is fine.
But kneeling down before a spiritual leader is worship.
Kneeling down before the Dalai Lama is worship.
Kneeling down before a stone is worship.
Kneeling down before your fiance is fine.wakeup.
1. So then the Word OF God ISN'T actually God Almighty Himself?
2. That doesn't address my point, Wakeup. Do we agree that Jesus' disciples KNEW he WASN'T God Almighty Himself?
3. So kneeling down before our King Jesus isn't necessarily “worshipping” him, right? It could be just showing him honor and reverence, right?
3a. Also, WHY is kneeling before the Dalai Lama or a stone considered “worship”?
Is it because the people kneeling before those things THINK they are kneeling before their God? Yes.
So I agree that when people kneel before ANYTHING or ANYONE they THINK is their God, it is an act of worship.
3b. The question then becomes: Did the disciples of Jesus THINK Jesus was their God? YES or NO?
3c. People kneeled before the spiritual leaders Samuel and David in the Bible. Were those people “worshipping” Samuel and David?
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 15 2014,14:49) 1.The Word of God is now next to his father. 2.The apostles are well informmed,they knew Jesus was the
Son of God,not God.THOU ART THE MESSIAH;THE SON OF
GOD. *ON THIS ROCK (FOUDATION) WILL I BUILD MY
CHURCH*.
They also understood that Jesus is the Word of God in the
flesh. But this full understanding came at pentecost.
They addressed Jesus as my Lord: Many kneeled down
before him.[/quote]
1. So the same Word who used to actually BE God now sits NEXT TO God?Is this your FINAL answer? That the Word is in no way God Almighty Himself?
2. I agree that none of the disciples ever thought Jesus actually WAS the very God who sent him into the world. They KNEW different, right?
Does kneeling before a man on earth automatically constitute an act of WORSHIP? Or could it simply be an act of paying homage to one you revere and adore?[/quote]
MIkeb.1.Yes.the Word of God is now sitting next to God.
2.The apostles were filled with the spirit of truth at pentecost.
3.Kneeling down before a king as to honour him is fine.
But kneeling down before a spiritual leader is worship.
Kneeling down before the Dalai Lama is worship.
Kneeling down before a stone is worship.
Kneeling down before your fiance is fine.wakeup.
People can kneel down or honour others for who they are. So long as they are not honoured as God. Where in scripture does it say you cannot honour anyone but God?King David was honoured. Honoured/worship/prostrate is the same word (I think).
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2014,12:49) 1. So then the Word OF God ISN'T actually God Almighty Himself? 2. That doesn't address my point, Wakeup. Do we agree that Jesus' disciples KNEW he WASN'T God Almighty Himself?
3. So kneeling down before our King Jesus isn't necessarily “worshipping” him, right? It could be just showing him honor and reverence, right?
3a. Also, WHY is kneeling before the Dalai Lama or a stone considered “worship”?
Is it because the people kneeling before those things THINK they are kneeling before their God? Yes.
So I agree that when people kneel before ANYTHING or ANYONE they THINK is their God, it is an act of worship.
3b. The question then becomes: Did the disciples of Jesus THINK Jesus was their God? YES or NO?
3c. People kneeled before the spiritual leaders Samuel and David in the Bible. Were those people “worshipping” Samuel and David?
MIke b.1.So many times I said.
The Word is the Word of God,is not God himself,but His Word.2.The dessiples knew Jesus was the Word of God.
The Son of God.
The Messiah.3.True.
3a.Yes.
3b.No.
They knew he was the Word of God made flesh.3c.No. Just kneeling down in honour.
wakeup.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 16 2014,14:45) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 15 2014,14:49) 1.The Word of God is now next to his father. 2.The apostles are well informmed,they knew Jesus was the
Son of God,not God.THOU ART THE MESSIAH;THE SON OF
GOD. *ON THIS ROCK (FOUDATION) WILL I BUILD MY
CHURCH*.
They also understood that Jesus is the Word of God in the
flesh. But this full understanding came at pentecost.
They addressed Jesus as my Lord: Many kneeled down
before him.
1. So the same Word who used to actually BE God now sits NEXT TO God?Is this your FINAL answer? That the Word is in no way God Almighty Himself?
2. I agree that none of the disciples ever thought Jesus actually WAS the very God who sent him into the world. They KNEW different, right?
Does kneeling before a man on earth automatically constitute an act of WORSHIP? Or could it simply be an act of paying homage to one you revere and adore?[/quote]
MIkeb.1.Yes.the Word of God is now sitting next to God.
2.The apostles were filled with the spirit of truth at pentecost.
3.Kneeling down before a king as to honour him is fine.
But kneeling down before a spiritual leader is worship.
Kneeling down before the Dalai Lama is worship.
Kneeling down before a stone is worship.
Kneeling down before your fiance is fine.wakeup.[/quote]
People can kneel down or honour others for who they are. So long as they are not honoured as God. Where in scripture does it say you cannot honour anyone but God?King David was honoured. Honoured/worship/prostrate is the same word (I think).
Yes it is the same word, translated worship when referring to God, but translated bow ownself when referring to honoring men. How odd, the same word.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 15 2014,07:08) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 13 2014,19:30) To all, I may be slow at responding.
You're always slow, Kerwin. Oh – I'm sorry. You weren't talking about MENTALLY slow, were you?
Mike,Lately I have not been up to par mentally either but I was not speaking of mentally.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 15 2014,07:15) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 13 2014,19:34) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 11 2014,01:46) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 10 2014,07:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,07:28) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 09 2014,12:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2014,07:38) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 08 2014,14:33) 1. God's word commands all things that are in heaven and on earth and so does Jesus. 2. God's word is a mediator between God and man and is Jesus.
Please explain these claims, Kerwin.1. Do you believe God's word is a living being in heaven who goes about making commands to other beings in heaven and on earth?
2. Are you saying that God's spoken words are living beings who come and talk to us about things God said? And that we can ask these words some questions, and they will take our questions to God and get back to us with His answers?
Mike,I personified God's word to show its relationship to Jesus.
So what are the “YES” or “NO” answers to my questions?
Mike,Do you understand what it means when you personalize a word?
Mike,You asked questions that implied a lack of knowledge and so asked if “you know what it means when you personalize a word?”
Do you withdraw you questions or are going to answer mine to demonstrate you have the knowledge to understand the answer I already gave to your questions?
Mike,Quote
I personified God's word to show its relationship to Jesus.Is the answer to both your questions.
In other words I “representation of a thing or abstraction as a person”
Listen up Ed J Jr………. You are being purposely obstinate here, the same way Ed was being when he received his tile.I'm GUESSING from your given answer that your REAL answer is “NO” to both questions.
But I don't want to GUESS, Kerwin. Are you saying YES or NO to my questions?
I want a REAL answer because I have a follow-up question for you.
Mike,No is correct. I was perhaps being too easily offended,
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 15 2014,22:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2014,12:49)
3c. People kneeled before the spiritual leaders Samuel and David in the Bible. Were those people “worshipping” Samuel and David?
3c.No. Just kneeling down in honour.
Okay. It seems we agree that Jesus is NOT God Almighty, and the disciples never thought he WAS God Almighty.And since we know these things are true, there's no sensible reason to think any of those disciples actually “worshipped” Jesus as if he WAS God Almighty.
Therefore, the verses in which the KJV says Jesus was “worshiped” would be better translated as “knelt down in honour” – as you've worded it.
In my mind, the word “worship” refers ONLY to the specific homage paid ONLY to God Almighty.
All the servants OF God Almighty, Jesus included, can be “knelt down before in honour” – but not “worshiped”.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 16 2014,15:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 15 2014,07:08) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 13 2014,19:30) To all, I may be slow at responding.
You're always slow, Kerwin. Oh – I'm sorry. You weren't talking about MENTALLY slow, were you?
Mike,Lately I have not been up to par mentally either but I was not speaking of mentally.
I hope you know I was just kidding around. I have no doubts about your intellect.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 16 2014,16:00) Mike, No is correct. I was perhaps being too easily offended.
Perhaps I was too, Kerwin.The follow up question is about Revelation 19:13. In that verse, does the phrase “the Word of God” still just refer to an unnamed thing that is poetically being personified as a living being?
Or does that phrase refer to an actual living person?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,09:23) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 15 2014,22:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2014,12:49)
3c. People kneeled before the spiritual leaders Samuel and David in the Bible. Were those people “worshipping” Samuel and David?
3c.No. Just kneeling down in honour.
Okay. It seems we agree that Jesus is NOT God Almighty, and the disciples never thought he WAS God Almighty.And since we know these things are true, there's no sensible reason to think any of those disciples actually “worshipped” Jesus as if he WAS God Almighty.
Therefore, the verses in which the KJV says Jesus was “worshiped” would be better translated as “knelt down in honour” – as you've worded it.
In my mind, the word “worship” refers ONLY to the specific homage paid ONLY to God Almighty.
All the servants OF God Almighty, Jesus included, can be “knelt down before in honour” – but not “worshiped”.
Mikeb.When you see the Word of God coming in clouds;
with all power and glory.
You will kneel down and worship Him.wakeup.
I will happily kneel before the one my God Jehovah set up over me as Lord and King.
But I will only worship the God OF that Lord and King.
But that doesn't address my point, Wakeup. If the disciples had yet to see Jesus coming on the clouds, why then did they “worship” him when he was only a man on earth?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,11:15) I will happily kneel before the one my God Jehovah set up over me as Lord and King. But I will only worship the God OF that Lord and King.
But that doesn't address my point, Wakeup. If the disciples had yet to see Jesus coming on the clouds, why then did they “worship” him when he was only a man on earth?
Mike b.Because of their true understanding.
They have been given knowledge.
To worship the one that have created them
never can be seen as doing the wrong thing.
Their lives depend on HIM.After all, HE is the WORD of GOD.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 16 2014,18:28) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,11:15) If the disciples had yet to see Jesus coming on the clouds, why then did they “worship” him when he was only a man on earth?
Mike b.Because of their true understanding.
They have been given knowledge.
To worship the one that have created them
never can be seen as doing the wrong thing.
So they DIDN'T think Jesus was God Almighty – but they DID think he was the one who created them?
Hmmm…………….
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,12:18) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 16 2014,18:28) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,11:15) If the disciples had yet to see Jesus coming on the clouds, why then did they “worship” him when he was only a man on earth?
Mike b.Because of their true understanding.
They have been given knowledge.
To worship the one that have created them
never can be seen as doing the wrong thing.
So they DIDN'T think Jesus was God Almighty – but they DID think he was the one who created them?Hmmm…………….
Mike b.The Word of God remains the word of God,
in what shape or form.
The Word of God is spirit form is the Word of God.
The Word of God in flesh form is still the Word of God.And He only deserve nothing more that honour
according to you.
but I say to you: when you see him coming in clouds with all power and glory; you *will* bow down and worship Him.
Every knee shall bow and worship Him,jews and gentiles.
They all will mourn and cry because of their convictions.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,04:31) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 16 2014,16:00) Mike, No is correct. I was perhaps being too easily offended.
Perhaps I was too, Kerwin.The follow up question is about Revelation 19:13. In that verse, does the phrase “the Word of God” still just refer to an unnamed thing that is poetically being personified as a living being?
Or does that phrase refer to an actual living person?
Mike,Yes it does but then it states a person is called by the same name as it why means.
Quote the name is used for everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is aroused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, i.e. for one's rank, authority, interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds etc. Jesus' surname is the Lord Saves or something like that.
Note: name
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 16 2014,21:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,04:31) The follow up question is about Revelation 19:13. In that verse, does the phrase “the Word of God” still just refer to an unnamed thing that is poetically being personified as a living being? Or does that phrase refer to an actual living person?
Mike,Yes it does but then it states a person is called by the same name as it why means.
You are wrong on that one, Kerwin. The Word of God in Revelation 19:13 is a specific person. He is the same person who is also called the Lord of lords and King of kings.The Lord of lords and King of kings is not a “thing” that is merely being personified. He is a real living person.
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