JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 21 2013,00:02)

T, Quote Jas 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. Jas 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created I am not sure if this is speaking of the first in sequence or the best of creation.  Originally I was thinking it meant first and sequence because of what I remembered of it and the words Paul wrote in the following. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

k

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
1Co 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

THIS IS RELATED TO THE RESURRECTION i DO NOT SEE WHAT CONNECTION IT AT TO DO WITH YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION ,AND YOUR QUESTION WAS NOT CLEAR EITHER ,SO RE QUESTION THE QUESTION

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 21 2013,00:02)

T, Quote Jas 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. Jas 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created I am not sure if this is speaking of the first in sequence or the best of creation.  Originally I was thinking it meant first and sequence because of what I remembered of it and the words Paul wrote in the following. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

k

Jas 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created

THIS COULD BE THAT ALL TRUE BELIEVERS ARE CALLED FIRST FRUITS ,AND THAT DURING THE RESURRECTION THEY WILL ACT AS TEACHERS FROM ONE GENERATION DOWN TO ANOTHER ,THIS OF CAUSE IS SPECULATION ,

[jammin]

Kerwin

I read christ created new heaven and new earth in king kerwin version. Lol

[jammin]

Gene
Im not surprised if you cant accept jn 1:1 refers to christ as the Word. Do i have to read king gene version?lol

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2013,10:56)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 20 2013,10:00) Now, poor old John was so stupid he didn't know he should have written the word Jesus there  (a Person) instead of Just “word” (intelligent utterance), So along comes  Jammin, and Mike, and other Trinitarians and Preexistence's and Just straighten out  poor old stupid John's writings,  to read as they say it should. I wonder if Gene “straightens out poor old stupid John” in Revelation 19:13, where he also wrote “The Word”, but was clearly referring to Jesus.

Mike……..Why jump to some other text, when the one being discussed it at issue. But just for you info, Rev 19″13, is a future time , and the term “His Name”, is in a “figurative” sense because Jesus, Will have all seven Spirits of the Living GOD in him and he will rule and Judge and Speak GOD'S Words by the influence of those Spirits in him, so he THEN will be called the word of GOD, in a “Representative” sense, but that in no way Makes He HIMSELF Those Words he is speaking. Those words will be GOD the FATHERS WORDS Not HIS. He is Gods spokesmen. So he is called the word of God in Rev. , that has nothing to do with John 1:1 and John did not need some people to come along later and think they knew how to rewrite what He meant to say , to fit their religious Dogmas. IMO

That in no way makes the word, “word” a person , God and his word are one and the same thing, because they come from only ONE Source, and that is GOD himself, Just as you and your words come from you alone, and no matter who quotes them they still are your words.

See Mike i don't have to change text to fit my belief system because it fits it Just as it is written, and i understand it that way to. You would think you people would be just a “little” bit worried when you change text to fit your teachings though.

peace and love…………………gene

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 21 2013,22:25)

Kerwin I read christ created new heaven and new earth in king kerwin version. Lol

Jammin,

I never claimed Jesus created the new heaven and new earth what I claimed what it was created by him.

Note: Wikipedia has an article on a version of New Creation Theology.

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2013,22:01)

Mike, I already pointed out to you that Psalms is speaking of Jehovah and the old creation.

Quote

So is Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, and Heb 1:2. You know how I know?  Because the God-inspired writer of these scriptures DIDN'T include the word “NEW” before the words “things” and “ages”.

Last I knew you did not believe Jesus is God.

According to you the writer of Hebrews chose to take a quote speaking of an action that Psalms claims Jehovah performed and attribute that very same action to Jesus.

Those Jammin believes' argument is that if Psalms says the action is Jehovah then Paul quoted it and applied it to Jesus because Jesus is Jehovah.  They would go on to claim there is no evidence it is true of even the most important of angels.

I see that the writer of Hebrews is instead using the quote from Psalms as a pattern to apply to Jesus because it is true.  the same type of application of passages from  OT Scripture is done elsewhere in the NT. For example.

Matthew 2:15
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

15 and was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Matthew is speaking of Israel the nation of not of Jesus as Jesus did not sacrifice “unto Baalim”. Never the less the part Matthew quoted is true of Jesus.

Hosea 11:1-2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

11 When Israel was a child, then I loved him,
and called my son out of Egypt.
2 As they called them, so they went from them:
they sacrificed unto Baalim,
and burned incense to graven images.

The use of “new' is a choice of the writer.  The people he addressed, unlike us, were taught by the apostles first hand.

Note:fixed

[Wakeup]

Without HIM, was not anything made that was made.
Everything was made by the spoken Word.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2013,03:04)

Without HIM, was not anything made that was made. Everything was made by the spoken Word. wakeup.

W

Col 1:13 For he(GOD) has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he (GOD)loves,
Col 1:14 in whom (THE SON) we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Col 1:15 He(THE SON) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

according to your point of view there is either a competition from two angles that are declare THE SON

or the SON does not exist, or” THE WORD”DOES NOT EXIST ;; OR THE THE “WORD” AND THE “SON” ARE ONE AND ONLY PERSON ,THEN ALL SCRIPTURES DO NOT NEED TO BE SUPPLEMENTED BY LARGE COMMENTS THAT DO NOT MAKE SENSE ,

[kerwin]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2013,03:04)

Without HIM, was not anything made that was made. Everything was made by the spoken Word. wakeup.

Wakeup,

Yes. God spoke his word and there was light.

[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,10:20)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2013,03:04) Without HIM, was not anything made that was made. Everything was made by the spoken Word. wakeup. Wakeup, Yes. God spoke his word and there was light.

Kerwin.

yes; and that spoken Word was made flesh,
and he was called Jesus.
The spoken Word must have been alive with all the wisdom and power to create.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,08:25)

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2013,03:04) Without HIM, was not anything made that was made. Everything was made by the spoken Word. wakeup. W Col 1:13 For he(GOD) has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he (GOD)loves, Col 1:14 in whom (THE SON) we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Col 1:15 He(THE SON) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. according to your point of view there is either a competition from two angles that are declare THE SON or the SON does not exist, or” THE WORD”DOES NOT EXIST ;; OR THE THE “WORD” AND THE “SON” ARE ONE AND ONLY PERSON ,THEN ALL SCRIPTURES DO NOT NEED TO BE SUPPLEMENTED BY LARGE COMMENTS THAT DO NOT MAKE SENSE ,

T.

After all that; what is your conclusion?
1.Is the Word created or not?
2.The beginning of all creation.
This also needs your explanantion to us.

wakeup.

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2013,04:03)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 21 2013,22:25) Kerwin I read christ created new heaven and new earth in king kerwin version. Lol Jammin, I never claimed Jesus created the new heaven and new earth what I claimed what it was created by him.   Note: Wikipedia has an article on a version of New Creation Theology.

really???

let me post again what you said earlier.

kerwin said:
Jammin,
Yes,  It states the new heaven and new earth are made by Jesus as that is true.

LOL. you need medicine boy. take some meds.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 22 2013,03:28)

Gene Im not surprised if you cant accept jn 1:1 refers to christ as the Word. Do i have to read king gene version?lol

Jammin………Here is on for you to twist, There are Three that bear witness in heaven , God the Father , the “WORD” and the Holy Spirit, and these three “ARE” ONE.

But you boy say they are not “ONE” and the Same, you say Jesus is the word , but this scripture say that is not true it say God and his word “ARE” ONE.  Now go Boy and find out how to twist that up, to say God and his word and not the same thing, but his word is Jesus , like the rest of your false trinitarian and preexistence's teachers do. IMO

peace and love………………………………….gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2013,11:14)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 22 2013,08:25) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2013,03:04) Without HIM, was not anything made that was made. Everything was made by the spoken Word. wakeup. W Col 1:13 For he(GOD) has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he (GOD)loves, Col 1:14 in whom (THE SON) we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Col 1:15 He(THE SON) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. according to your point of view there is either a competition from two angles that are declare THE SON or the SON does not exist, or” THE WORD”DOES NOT EXIST ;; OR THE THE “WORD” AND THE “SON” ARE ONE AND ONLY PERSON ,THEN ALL SCRIPTURES DO NOT NEED TO BE SUPPLEMENTED BY LARGE COMMENTS THAT DO NOT MAKE SENSE , T. After all that; what is your conclusion? 1.Is the Word created or not? 2.The beginning of all creation.   This also needs your explanantion to us. wakeup.

1) the scriptures i quote answers that ,Col;1;15

2)do you have a problem with what scriptures is saying
I do not ,scriptures are clear on what it says ;

but you haven answered my questions in your logic

[tigger2]

Gene Balthrop wrote:

Quote

Jammin………Here is on[e] for you to twist, There are Three that bear witness in heaven , God the Father , the “WORD” and the Holy Spirit, and these three “ARE” ONE. But you boy say they are not “ONE” and the Same, you say Jesus is the word , but this scripture say that is not true[.] It say God and his word “ARE” ONE. Now go Boy and find out how to twist that up, to say God and his word [are] not the same thing, but his word is Jesus , like the rest of your false trinitarian and preexistence's teachers do. IMO peace and love………………………………….gene

1. There is no place in Scripture where God is described or referred to as “three” (but numerous places where he is described as “one” or “the Father”).

2. 1 John 5:7 as found in the KJV is spurious and has no place in proper translations.  –

http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-john-57-kjv.html " class="bbcode-link"> http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-john-57-kjv.html

[Wakeup]

Quote (tigger2 @ Dec. 23 2013,08:52)

Gene Balthrop wrote: Quote Jammin………Here is on[e] for you to twist, There are Three that bear witness in heaven , God the Father , the “WORD” and the Holy Spirit, and these three “ARE” ONE. But you boy say they are not “ONE” and the Same, you say Jesus is the word , but this scripture say that is not true[.] It say God and his word “ARE” ONE. Now go Boy and find out how to twist that up, to say God and his word [are] not the same thing, but his word is Jesus , like the rest of your false trinitarian and preexistence's teachers do. IMO peace and love………………………………….gene 1. There is no place in Scripture where God is described or referred to as “three” (but numerous places where he is described as “one” or “the Father”). 2. 1 John 5:7 as found in the KJV is spurious and has no place in proper translations.  – http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-john-57-kjv.html " class="bbcode-link"> http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-john-57-kjv.html

Tigger2.

You said: 1 John 5:7 is spurious.
Spurious according to whom?

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

HER ARE THREE: WATER;BLOOD;AND SPIRIT.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

HERE ARE THREE: THE FATHER,THE WORD,AND THE HOLY GHOST/SPIRIT.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

HERE ARE THREE: SPIRIT,WATER,AND BLOOD.

ALL AGREE IN ONE.

Can you elaborate what you are trying to convey?

wakeup.

[tigger2]

Quote

Tigger2. You said: 1 John 5:7 is spurious. Spurious according to whom? 1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. HER ARE THREE: WATER;BLOOD;AND SPIRIT. 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. HERE ARE THREE: THE FATHER,THE WORD,AND THE HOLY GHOST/SPIRIT. 1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. HERE ARE THREE: SPIRIT,WATER,AND BLOOD. ALL AGREE IN ONE. Can you elaborate what you are trying to convey? wakeup.

That's exactly what the link is for.

[Wakeup]

Quote (tigger2 @ Dec. 23 2013,11:42)

Quote Tigger2. You said: 1 John 5:7 is spurious. Spurious according to whom? 1 John 5:6   This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. HER ARE THREE: WATER;BLOOD;AND SPIRIT.  1 John 5:7   For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. HERE ARE THREE: THE FATHER,THE WORD,AND THE HOLY GHOST/SPIRIT.  1 John 5:8   And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. HERE ARE THREE: SPIRIT,WATER,AND BLOOD. ALL AGREE IN ONE. Can you elaborate what you are trying to convey? wakeup. That's exactly what the link is for.

Tigger2.

For your information.
John 5:7 is not there to proof the trinity.
I dont go for the trinity myself.

It is to proof that Jesus came in the flesh.
He was born out of water and blood like all his brethren.
He was human.The water and the blood and his spirit is proof.
Not some angel posing as flesh.Jesus came out of a woman.
There are three that bear witness in heaven.
God,His Word,and the spirit of truth.
Two witnesses: The heavenly witness and the earthly witness.

wakeup.

[jammin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 23 2013,02:40)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 22 2013,03:28) Gene Im not surprised if you cant accept jn 1:1 refers to christ as the Word. Do i have to read king gene version?lol Jammin………Here is on for you to twist, There are Three that bear witness in heaven , God the Father , the “WORD” and the Holy Spirit, and these three “ARE” ONE. But you boy say they are not “ONE” and the Same, you say Jesus is the word , but this scripture say that is not true it say God and his word “ARE” ONE.  Now go Boy and find out how to twist that up, to say God and his word and not the same thing, but his word is Jesus , like the rest of your false trinitarian and preexistence's teachers do. IMO peace and love………………………………….gene

john said JESUS WAS THE WORD. as i have said, im not surprised if you cant accept that because you are a false teacher. hahaha

NLV
1 The Word (Christ) was in the beginning. The Word was with God. The Word was God.

to support the john 1.1, let us take a look at the rev 19.13
13 The coat He wears has been put in blood. His name is The Word of God.

if john was not referring to christ as the Word in john 1.1, why would rev 19.13 speaks about christ as the Word of GOd?

and if you are going to read the context of john 1.1, it says in verse 14 that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

the bible clearly tells us that the Word is christ himself. those who deny this truth do not know how to read and understand greek .

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