JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[Lightenup]

Hi Irene,
But Nick has told me over and over that we can't be like Him if He has an advantage. If He was born without sin then He had an advantage.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Was he not born of Mary?
Jb25
4How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

5Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.

6How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

He DID not sin.
He OVERCAME sin in the flesh.
He was a man, someone real we can follow.

[Lightenup]

Quote

Scripture says he was like us in all ways..except sin. Do you disagree with scripture? It should be enough.

If He was from heaven, He wasn't like us in every way. Perhaps scripture means He was like us in every way necessary.
LU

PS I gotta sleep sometime but before I go I have to confess that I have been playing a reverse role on here tonight. I don't mean most of what I said. I was just mimicking things that some on here say alot of which I disagree with. Sorry for any confusion.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Have you matched his hair colour?
Are you as tall?

Why argue with scripture which says he was the same, except for sin?
Are you greater than scripture?

[malcolm ferris]

Hi all – my 2 cents worth
Jesus was a man – mortal – able to partake of death, able to be tempted.
GOD is not able as immortal, eternal … to die, be tempted…
SIN – GOD has no part in it, as I understand.
what is SIN?
Unbelief in GOD, as reflected in disobedience to HIS WORD.
Any sin manifest (in disobedience) begins in unbelief/doubt of what GOD said.
James tells us it is conceived in lust, lust for what? our own idea! which is manifest in our having our own way.
Now the penalty of sin is death – separation from GOD, first in the body (1st death) then in the soul (2nd death)
The transgression in the garden started the whole thing, and by Adam siding with a fallen vessel (Eve his wife) all of
mankind was dragged down. [for Adam was not deceived as the woman was].
So the curse of death was issued forth upon the rest of us through the womb and from birth.
Hence the redeemer came through the womb (the woman's seed) not as one born with the same sin nature as us, but the same
body subject to sin as us, for the body had been formed in the corruptible womb of a product of the fall (Mary).
He was truly the Lamb without spot or blemish in my opinion, a perfect sacrifice for sin which required a blameless offering.
The closest a man born of normal human procreation could hope for was shown forth in Abel who found favor with GOD, was
without blame in his death (so much so that his blood cried out from the grave) yet his death did not do it.
The uniquely begotten Son of GOD was begotten in this unique way for a very clear purpose, to be that propitiation for sin.
No man, or woman born the regular way could possibly accomplish this.
That is why in my opinion the heavenly DOVE could settle upon and remain on the earthly LAMB, there was a compatibility of
nature that had not beforehand existed in this degree, so that the fullness of GOD could dwell in him.
I believe it was his soul that was 100% compatible with the SPIRIT of GOD.
Now we can aim for that, hope for that, should dream of it, but are doomed somewhat in our attempts to achieve it due to
the fallen nature we received in our natural birth. As Paul explains very well in his letters.
Sorry it was a long one, and it is as I said just my 2 cents worth (btw it is a very brief summary of a lot of very complex things that deserve far more words) ….

[Tiffany]

Are you not glad that Christ by God's mercy came down from Heaven and did the will of His Father and our Father, so we can have eternal Life. For that I am forever thankful to God and Christ for. Believe that Christ came and died for us. For by grace we are saved, it is a free gift from God. So no one can boast.
Peace and Love Irene

[NickHassan]

Hi MF,
You say
“Now the penalty of sin is death – separation from GOD, first in the body (1st death) then in the soul (2nd death)”

We all know what the first death entails and sepatation from God is already manifest for most men
Scripture tells us the Lake of fire is the second death.

You say
“Hence the redeemer came through the womb (the woman's seed) not as one born with the same sin nature as us, but the same..”

The WOMAN in scripture is usually Israel.
Scripture tells us he overcame sin in the flesh [Rom8].

You say
“No man, or woman born the regular way could possibly accomplish this. “

In what way was his birth different?

You say
“That is why in my opinion the heavenly DOVE could settle upon and remain on the earthly LAMB, there was a compatibility of
nature that had not beforehand existed in this degree, so that the fullness of GOD could dwell in him.”

Was it his NATURE that made him a clean vessel or the fact that sin was not allowed to conceive and dwell in him?

IF HIS NATURE WAS SUPERIOR TO OURS WE CANNOT FOLLOW HIM

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 30 2008,02:53)

Hi LU, Have you matched his hair colour? Are you as tall? Why argue with scripture which says he was the same, except for sin? Are you greater than scripture?

Hi Nick,
Hmmm! Was Jesus 5'5″ and blonde? I do ask my salon artist to match my haircolor to Jesus's. She says its the new rage

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
He was like to us in every way relevant to God or scripture would not have said so.

An unblemished lamb was sacrificed by the Jews.

How perfect was the lamb chosen?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 01 2008,07:45)

Hi MF, You say “Now the penalty of sin is death – separation from GOD, first in the body (1st death) then in the soul (2nd death)” We all know what the first death entails and sepatation from God is already manifest for most men Scripture tells us the Lake of fire is the second death. You say “Hence the redeemer came through the womb (the woman's seed) not as one born with the same sin nature as us, but the same..” The WOMAN in scripture is usually Israel. Scripture tells us he overcame sin in the flesh [Rom8]. You say “No man, or woman born the regular way could possibly accomplish this. “ In what way was his birth different?   You say “That is why in my opinion the heavenly DOVE could settle upon and remain on the earthly LAMB, there was a compatibility of nature that had not beforehand existed in this degree, so that the fullness of GOD could dwell in him.” Was it his NATURE that made him a clean vessel or the fact that sin was not allowed to conceive and dwell in him? IF HIS NATURE WAS SUPERIOR TO OURS WE CANNOT FOLLOW HIM

NH

God's nature is superior to us! Can we follow God?

Your argument is a straw.

Yeshua is the Lamb of God who was perfect and without blemish or the stain of sin.

WJ

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 30 2008,02:49)

Hi LU, Was he not born of Mary? Jb25 4How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? 5Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. 6How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm? He DID not sin. He OVERCAME sin in the flesh. He was a man, someone real we can follow.

Hi Nick,
So what does “born holy” mean to you?

Luke 1:35

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
KJV

LU

[malcolm ferris]

I knew I put too much in that one paragraph…

Quote

Hi MF, You say “Now the penalty of sin is death – separation from GOD, first in the body (1st death) then in the soul (2nd death)” We all know what the first death entails and sepatation from God is already manifest for most men Scripture tells us the Lake of fire is the second death.

Yes that is where the soul will perish – death in the flesh does not annihilate the soul, as is evident in scripture.
Jesus went and preached to souls in prison….
Of course the destination and outcome of the souls is being decided on earth in our mortal existence.
The rewards (or punishment/wages) follow and are given according to what we did when faced with the Truth.

Quote

You say “Hence the redeemer came through the womb (the woman's seed) not as one born with the same sin nature as us, but the same..” The WOMAN in scripture is usually Israel. Scripture tells us he overcame sin in the flesh [Rom8].

Yes the woman is often portrayed as a symbolic type of Israel, also of the Church.
Sin came upon man through Adam who was not deceived
Salvation came upon man through Jesus Christ who was not deceived either.
One came by disobedience to GOD's WORD.
The other by obedience.
My point in that statement was that as the woman was instrumental in the fall and with this came a specific curse
for her.
So in the birth of Jesus a woman was instrumental in the redemption and with this came a specific blessing.
The birth of Jesus in my opinion was a direct answer to the promise in Genesis – he was the woman's seed.
Mary was the woman in question and no man had anything to do with it.
IMO

Quote

You say “No man, or woman born the regular way could possibly accomplish this. “ In what way was his birth different?

To the degree that Jesus did not need to get born again for he was born right the first time, with the right nature.
Hence his complete compatibility with the SPIRIT of GOD.
IMO

Quote

You say “That is why in my opinion the heavenly DOVE could settle upon and remain on the earthly LAMB, there was a compatibility of nature that had not beforehand existed in this degree, so that the fullness of GOD could dwell in him.” Was it his NATURE that made him a clean vessel or the fact that sin was not allowed to conceive and dwell in him?

As he said himself it is the flesh that is weak and the spirit that is willing. His spirit was willing to face even death on the cross
in order to obey GOD. As he said in the garden – not my will but your will be done.
IMO

Quote

IF HIS NATURE WAS SUPERIOR TO OURS WE CANNOT FOLLOW HIM

not without a rebirth. That is why he did not make it optional
You must be born again – how else are we to receive a change of nature, except the soul be born a new
creature by the SPIRIT of GOD?

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 01 2008,08:16)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 01 2008,07:45) Hi MF, You say “Now the penalty of sin is death – separation from GOD, first in the body (1st death) then in the soul (2nd death)” We all know what the first death entails and sepatation from God is already manifest for most men Scripture tells us the Lake of fire is the second death. You say “Hence the redeemer came through the womb (the woman's seed) not as one born with the same sin nature as us, but the same..” The WOMAN in scripture is usually Israel. Scripture tells us he overcame sin in the flesh [Rom8]. You say “No man, or woman born the regular way could possibly accomplish this. “ In what way was his birth different?   You say “That is why in my opinion the heavenly DOVE could settle upon and remain on the earthly LAMB, there was a compatibility of nature that had not beforehand existed in this degree, so that the fullness of GOD could dwell in him.” Was it his NATURE that made him a clean vessel or the fact that sin was not allowed to conceive and dwell in him? IF HIS NATURE WAS SUPERIOR TO OURS WE CANNOT FOLLOW HIM NH God's nature is superior to us! Can we follow God? Your argument is a straw. Yeshua is the Lamb of God who was perfect and without blemish or the stain of sin. WJ

Hi wJ,
WE are not asked to follow God.
We are given a human mediator to follow.
Empowered from above as we all can be if we seek.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 01 2008,08:17)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 30 2008,02:49) Hi LU, Was he not born of Mary? Jb25 4How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? 5Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. 6How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm? He DID not sin. He OVERCAME sin in the flesh. He was a man, someone real we can follow. Hi Nick, So what does “born holy” mean to you? Luke 1:35 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. KJV LU

Hi LU,
Luke 4:34
Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.

Jesus is the Holy one of God, holy like the holy angels and holy prophets and holy place and holy garments etc- all vessels chosen for service to God.

[NickHassan]

Hi MF,
You say he was not reborn of water and the Spirit at the Jordan
but we must follow him and do so?

[malcolm ferris]

Yes Nick
That would be one point of difference we have.
I do not believe Jesus needed to repent or be baptized or be reborn.
He was baptized because he represented the sacrificial lamb, which had to be washed before presentation.
He told John the Baptist to suffer it to be so, because in this way all the righteous requirements of the Law were satisfied.
John's baptism was not unto rebirth anyway it was unto repentance, which is why Paul commanded those he found at
Ephesus who had been baptized in John's baptism to be re-baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Hence John's own words –

'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'

IMO

[NickHassan]

Hi MF,
He was washed to fulfill the demands of scriptural righteousness not ignoring the one sent before.
But he was empowered for service by baptism of the Spirit of God immediately manifesting in power.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 01 2008,08:28)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 01 2008,08:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 01 2008,07:45) Hi MF, You say “Now the penalty of sin is death – separation from GOD, first in the body (1st death) then in the soul (2nd death)” We all know what the first death entails and sepatation from God is already manifest for most men Scripture tells us the Lake of fire is the second death. You say “Hence the redeemer came through the womb (the woman's seed) not as one born with the same sin nature as us, but the same..” The WOMAN in scripture is usually Israel. Scripture tells us he overcame sin in the flesh [Rom8]. You say “No man, or woman born the regular way could possibly accomplish this. “ In what way was his birth different?   You say “That is why in my opinion the heavenly DOVE could settle upon and remain on the earthly LAMB, there was a compatibility of nature that had not beforehand existed in this degree, so that the fullness of GOD could dwell in him.” Was it his NATURE that made him a clean vessel or the fact that sin was not allowed to conceive and dwell in him? IF HIS NATURE WAS SUPERIOR TO OURS WE CANNOT FOLLOW HIM NH God's nature is superior to us! Can we follow God? Your argument is a straw. Yeshua is the Lamb of God who was perfect and without blemish or the stain of sin. WJ Hi wJ, WE are not asked to follow God. We are given a human mediator to follow. Empowered from above as we all can be if we seek.

NH

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matt 5:48

Be ye therefore “followers of God”, as dear children;… Eph 5:1

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 01 2008,08:28)

WE are not asked to follow God.

So you know more than Yeshua and Paul?

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 01 2008,08:28)

We are given a human mediator to follow.

So you just follow a mere man, an arm of flesh?

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that “trusteth in man”, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jer 17:5

Yahshua says you cannot have 2 masters.

WJ

[malcolm ferris]

He was empowered for service by the Spirit of God as is any servant of GOD.
In times past principally prophets paralleled this being anointed ones or Christ's
Jesus was not merely a prophet, an anointed one but THE Christ – the one anointed not with GOD's SPIRIT in a measure
like prophets of old or saints of the new, he had the SPIRIT of GOD without measure, all the fullness of GOD dwelt in him
upon his baptism.
It is a difference between one anointed momentarily for a certain purpose and service of GOD and he who was fully
anointed not with a baptism but with the whole fountain of LIFE in him and flowing out from him.
We in our measure by the baptism of the Holy Spirit can seek to emulate this.
We can become tributaries of the great LIFE stream as we are branches from the vine…

Also we need to consider that there are differences of measure and purpose in the administration of the Spirit of GOD amongst the many membered body of Christ.
All are baptized with the Holy spirit – this is required for a rebirth.
But not all hold the same offices or have the same anointing to minister (Rom 4) yet all have the same Spirit. (1 Cor 12)
Without this deposit of faith we cannot even receive the Holy Spirit when it is ministered to us by these various means given.
IMO

[GeneBalthrop]

mf………..truly stated . It's not so much the vine as what flowing through the vine , GOD's Spirit.

peace to you and yours…………………..gene

[Author]

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