JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[terraricca]

Mike

good point ,and it all pointing to that Christ the son is not his father or no part of his father ,

[Wakeup]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 05 2013,14:26)

Mike, was Jesus begotten (born of God) then partook of flesh or was he created then begotten afterward? I see it as the reverse of us. He was begotten in the beginning, then he partook of flesh, and now he is back in the glory he had with God. And for us, we were created, and some of us are begotten to be like him afterward. So for us, the physical then the spiritual. In other words, he became a little lower than the angels for our sake. Now if being begotten is being created, then are we created twice?

Deuteronomy 28:41 Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity.

wakeup.

[jammin]

not yet done??
the Word is Christ. that is not very hard to understand.

[GeneBalthrop]

Jammin……….Scripture say the word “WAS” GOD, Jesus is not a GOD,

1cor 8:4…> we know that here are no idols in the world and that there is “NO” God but “ONE”.

so who is that “ONE” God of yours jammin, is it the same God Jesus said was His GOD and Our GOD?

peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 07 2013,20:22)

Jammin……….Scripture say the word “WAS” GOD, Jesus is not a GOD, 1cor 8:4…> we know that here are no idols in the world and that there is “NO” God but “ONE”. so who is that “ONE” God of your jammin, is it the same God Jesus said was His GOD and Our GOD? peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene

g

theos

yeov theos

Pronunciation:theh'-os
Origin:of uncertain affinity a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity
Reference:–
PrtSpch:n m
In Greek:yee 2, yeoi 5, yeoiv 1, yeon 147, yeou 686, yeouv 2, yeou] 3, yeov 304, yeov] 3, yew 157, yew] 1, [yeou] 1
In NET:God 1079, God's 98, of God 74, to God 11, gods 8, god 5, Lord 4, God-fearing 3, for God 2, God's interests 2, God's standards 1, God's sight 1, God's image 1, God he 1, God's will 1, God's servants 1, a god 1, of God's 1, of a god 1, one 1, godly 1, goddess 1, with God 1, by God 1, Son-of-God-in-power 1
In AV:God 1320, god 13, godly 3, God-ward + 4214 2, misc 5
Count:1343
Definition:1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2) the Godhead, trinity
2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
3) spoken of the only and true God
3a) refers to the things of God
3b) his counsels, interests, things due to him
4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in
any way
4a) God's representative or viceregent
4a1) of magistrates and judges
of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme
Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:-X exceeding,
God, god(-ly, -ward).
see GREEK for 3588
Variations
in Bible:God (KJV, TEV)

you should investigate deeper if you are challenged ,

no one lives with his words ,words are not listen to if not spoken , and they have no value if you cannot do what you say,

but many are not interested in seeking God only accepting men's view ,

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 05 2013,18:31)

Mike good point ,and it all pointing to that Christ the son is not his father or no part of his father ,

Yes Pierre.  

A person's son is not “a part of him” – but an individual and separate entity who was BROUGHT FORTH by that person.

And BROUGHT FORTH is actually what the Hebrew word “yalad” means in the first place.  It is the word often translated as “beget” and “begot” in the OT.

So when we read, “Cain was begotten by Adam” in the KJV or other English Bible, the Hebrew words say, “Cain was brought forth by Adam”.

And the “bringing forth” of someone can be worded in English as either “begetting” or “creating”.  The two are NOT in contrast to each other.

It has never been a case of if you are begotten you weren't created, or if you were created, you weren't begotten.  And I challenge anyone out there to show me a case where a person who was begotten wasn't also a creation of God.

If you cannot find one, then to say Jesus is the ONLY case of this is without merit or support.

[GeneBalthrop]

Terricca……….Throwing out all kind of irrelevant information is nothing but pure gibberish.  I simple quoted a solid scripture in most all bibles and i counted over thirteen that had it the same way. Now do you believe it, would be the proper question, Yes or NO? As Mike says , even though he has failed to even address it himself.  Do you believe this Pierre…> we know that here is no idol in the world, and that there is “NO” God , but “ONE” . Yes or No please, and quite flopping around like a live fish on dry ground.

peace and love…………………….gene

[mikeboll64]

1 Corinthians 8
5 For even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father…….

Gene, do you believe there ARE many gods and many lords, in heaven and on earth, like Paul said?   YES or NO?

Do you believe that although there do INDEED exist many gods and many lords, for US, there is but one God, the Father?

See Gene?  For ME there is but one God, the Father.  But that doesn't mean all those other gods who are clearly described all throughout scripture don't exist.

So go back to Pierre's post with the “irrelevant information” and read definition #1 of the Greek word “theos”.  I believe it says, Definition: 1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities.

That is the first and most common meaning of that Greek word, Gene.  And God the Father is a part of that foremost definition, because He is indeed “a god”.  It's just that He happens to also be the God OF all those other gods.  And He happens to be the MOST HIGH of all those gods.  And He happens to be the ONLY one of all those gods who created all things.

But we don't learn that Jehovah is the Most High Creator from the Greek word “theos”, Gene.  We learn it from the things ADDED TO the Greek word “theos” – the OTHER THINGS said about the particular God named Jehovah.

So think about it.  If the word “god”, IN AND OF ITSELF, already means “The Most High Creator and God of other gods”, then that same word means the same thing EVERY time a god is mentioned in scripture.  And if the word “god”, IN AND OF ITSELF, already meant that stuff, there would be no reason for anyone in scripture to tell us that Jehovah alone is the God OF gods, and the Almighty Creator of all things……… because the word “god” would have already told us these things, right?

But the writers of scripture DO tell us these OTHER THINGS about Jehovah, right?  Why?  Because the word “god”, IN AND OF ITESELF, doesn't already mean those things.

You have much to learn, Gene.

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2013,02:05)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 07 2013,20:22) Jammin……….Scripture say the word “WAS” GOD, Jesus is not a GOD, 1cor 8:4…> we know that here are no idols in the world and that there is “NO” God but “ONE”. so who is that “ONE” God of your jammin, is it the same God Jesus said was His GOD and Our GOD? peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene g theos yeov theos Pronunciation:theh'-os Origin:of uncertain affinity a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity Reference:– PrtSpch:n m In Greek:yee 2, yeoi 5, yeoiv 1, yeon 147, yeou 686, yeouv 2, yeou] 3, yeov 304, yeov] 3, yew 157, yew] 1, [yeou] 1 In NET:God 1079, God's 98, of God 74, to God 11, gods 8, god 5, Lord 4, God-fearing 3, for God 2, God's interests 2, God's standards 1, God's sight 1, God's image 1, God he 1, God's will 1, God's servants 1, a god 1, of God's 1, of a god 1, one 1, godly 1, goddess 1, with God 1, by God 1, Son-of-God-in-power 1 In AV:God 1320, god 13, godly 3, God-ward + 4214 2, misc 5 Count:1343 Definition:1) a god  or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities 2) the Godhead, trinity 2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity 2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity 2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity 3) spoken of the only and true God 3a) refers to the things of God 3b) his counsels, interests, things due to him 4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way 4a) God's representative or viceregent 4a1) of magistrates and judges of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:-X exceeding, God, god(-ly, -ward). see GREEK for 3588 Variations in Bible:God (KJV, TEV) you should investigate deeper if you are challenged , no one lives with his words ,words are not listen to if not spoken , and they have no value if you cannot do what you say, but many are not interested in seeking God only accepting men's view ,

T.

They are gods introduced by satan.(isa.10).
They are *to us* no gods at all.
They are but idols made of gold,wood, and stone.
They have no life in them.They are dead gods.

Dont be ignorant brothers,for to us there is but one true God.

wakeup.

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote

1 Corinthians 8 5 For even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father…….

The whole statement is “if” meaning two condition could exist.
1) Whether in heaven or on earth there are those called gods.
2) Whether in heaven or on earth there and not those called gods.

Paul is the stating that there a those called gods.

Then he goes on to say to us there is only one God. This this statement hints that believers are not those that call these others gods.

[mikeboll64]

Read his words in the parenthesis, Kerwin. Then tell me it is an “if” situation.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2013,00:09)

Read his words in the parenthesis, Kerwin.  Then tell me it is an “if” situation.

Mike,

I already covered that when I wrote:

Quote

Paul is the stating that there a those called gods.

[Lightenup]

Mike,
You don't seem to acknowledge that 'only' does not mean first of many. You see the term 'only' as in only begotten and then explain it as if it said 'first' begotten.

Also, I am glad to see you understand that when one is called Jehovah, they are set apart from others called gods. That is a start!

[Wakeup]

Example:

What is money,but paper.
Yet it has much power,and therefore becomes a powerful
god to the world.
Where does all that power come from?
Can anyone tell me?

wakeup.

[Lightenup]

Quote (tigger2 @ Dec. 04 2013,16:39)

Quote tigger2, Since several translations translate this Jer 33:16 as the city being called Jehovah our Righteousness, there may be something to that but other translations do not give it that translation such as the Young's Literal Translation. [[As I already noted, many translations render it as “Jehovah (or ‘LORD’) IS our Righteousness.”  What other translations do not render it as the city being called by that name?]] If it is correctly translated as the city being called Jehovah our Righteousness, that only means that the city was named after the Son, it doesn't mean that the city is the Son. For example: Gen 4:17 and Cain knoweth his wife, and she conceiveth, and beareth Enoch; and he is building a city, and he calleth the name of the city, according to the name of his son — Enoch. Remember, MANY  Bibles (most of them translated by Trinitarians) render the name as `The LORD [YHWH] IS Our Righteousness': RSV; NRSV; NEB; NJB; ESV; JPS (Margolis, ed.); Tanakh; Byington; AT; CEB; GW; LEB; NLT; The Voice; and ASV (footnote).  And even NASB has this same translation at Jer. 33:16 As for Young’s translation, I haven’t seen any other Bibles translate Jer. 33:16 with that meaning.  However, please note how the name in question is rendered by Young in both Jer. 23:6 and Jer. 33:16.   Jer. 23:6 – In his days is Judah saved, and Israel dwelleth confidently, And this his name that Jehovah proclaimeth him, `Our Righteousness.' – Young’s. 33:16 – In those days is Judah saved, And Jerusalem doth dwell confidently, And this [is] he whom Jehovah proclaimeth to her: `Our Righteousness.'] No matter how you slice it, even many Trinitarians do not agree with you.  So this Trinitarian ‘evidence’ (as with so many Trinitarian ’proofs’) is a disputed scripture and, therefore, not really proper evidence. Please read the first 7 paragraphs in my study of Names: http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2010/01/name.html " class="bbcode-link"> http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2010/01/name.html

tigger2
It doesn't matter if Jesus' name is 'Jehovah is our Righteousness' or 'Jehovah our Righteousness.'

Couldn't He be called by the name 'Jesus is our righteousness?' Also, He could be called 'Jesus our Righteousness.'

It would be unlikely that believers call Jesus by the name 'the Father is our righteousness' or 'the Father our righteousness' if by 'Jehovah' is meant 'the Father.'

Also, 'Jesus is our righteousness' doesn't sound like a 'name' but 'Jesus our righteousness' does sound like a name.

Maybe there are examples in the Bible where someone's name is called some phrase which includes the word 'is' in it. Do you know of any?

[tigger2]

Quote

It doesn't matter if Jesus' name is 'Jehovah is our Righteousness' or 'Jehovah our Righteousness.' Couldn't He be called by the name 'Jesus is our righteousness?' Also, He could be called 'Jesus our Righteousness.' It would be unlikely that believers call Jesus by the name 'the Father is our righteousness' or 'the Father our righteousness' if by 'Jehovah' is meant 'the Father.'

Obviously you have not read the first 7 short paragraphs in the link as I asked.

It would help you understand why “is” would be important in learning what this name probably meant.

[Lightenup]

tigger2
I read your paragraphs just now. Can you show me where a PERSON is named as YHWH being the first separate word of their name?

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 07 2013,14:23)

Mike, You don't seem to acknowledge that 'only' does not mean first of many. You see the term 'only' as in only begotten and then explain it as if it said 'first' begotten. Also, I am glad to see you understand that when one is called Jehovah, they are set apart from others called gods. That is a start!

It is peculiar to me, Mike, that you see the word 'only' and expect Him to be like everybody else in His begotteness. When you talk about everyone that you know that is begotten had a beginning really just shows the uniqueness of the Son being an 'only' when it comes to His not having a beginning. You inadvertently prove the point that the Son would definitely be an only begotten if He did not have a beginning since all the other 'begotten' sons did have a beginning. I hope you can see that.

[jammin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2013,01:22)

Jammin……….Scripture say the word “WAS” GOD, Jesus is not a GOD, 1cor 8:4…> we know that here are no idols in the world and that there is “NO” God but “ONE”. so who is that “ONE” God of yours jammin, is it the same God Jesus said was His GOD and Our GOD? peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene

ill give you verse.
ohn 1:1

Living Bible (TLB)

1 1-2 Before anything else existed,[a] there was Christ,* with God. He has always been alive and is himself God.

did you see that?

believe it or not, Christ was God.

you can also check what paul said in phil 2.6
Philippians 2:6

Living Bible (TLB)

6 who, though he was God, did not demand and cling to his rights as God,

try to study more about this topic. you cant win the case if you have no supporting documents

[jammin]

the orthodox belief gene is that the father is GOD by nature and also his son. they are both God by nature.
that is why barclay told in john 1.1 that the nature of the son is like his father's nature.
“and the nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God” (Barclay, W. N.T. 1968).

[Author]

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