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charles
Quote WRONG! MAN WAS CREATED IN THE IMAGE GOD , NOT LIKE ALL MAMMALS
HE NEVER HAD FLESH AND BLOOD!
SIN TRANSFORMED HIM INTO A FLESH AND BLOOD MAMMAL! SATAN’S ABODE! AND BECAME THE WORST, AND THE MOST FILTHY MAMMAL FROM BIRTH!
Ge 1:25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
Ge 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
Ge 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
Ge 1:29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earthGe 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.
in verse 26 who are the “OUR”
I know you have your own understanding beside the scriptures ,
Quote (carmel @ Nov. 21 2013,22:09) terraricca,Nov. wrote:[/quote]
Quote all those questions are totally irrelevant to know or to understand for the truth of God being understood Terraricca,
THERE'S ONLY ONE WAY OUT!
CHANGE YOUR PERSPECTIVE REGARDING JESUS CHRIST!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
charlesno,I am telling you that your view is not according to the scriptures ;
if they would be I would accept them ,but until you change to believe the scriptures as they are written ,you are on your own turf
Hi Pierre:
Quote now you think that the words that where said by the prophets is less important than the words that Christ said right 
your are wrong ,you have mist the truth ,and I getting tire to say and show the scriptures to the truth of God ,over and over again ,it seems you do not understand the meaning of them
Quit putting words in my mouth. I did not say any thing about what Word of God was more or less important.
But no other prophet obeyed the Word of God without sin unto death on the cross.
And so if you are tired of my giving you my understanding of the scriptures, then quit responding to my posts.
Have you ever considered that it might just be you that is wrong?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (david @ Nov. 20 2013,20:16) Quote Kerwin, What if it said, “and the Word was Abraham Lincoln”?
Would you believe that the Word actually WAS Abraham Lincoln – as was clearly stated? Or would you pretend that the words, and the Word WAS Abraham Lincoln” only meant that the word “wore a top hat like Abraham Lincoln”?
I think for this analogy it would be better to replace Abraham Lincoln with “man.”
And, to imagine a scenario where there is on man who is the manliest man one very way, the very definition of man, so much that he is president of the world. So, we have the man. And we also have other men.
So if we now say: the word was man, or even the word was a man, either way, it's not tremendously clear that the word was “the” man.
Yeah,I've used Adam and Cain before. In the beginning was Cain, and Cain was with THE Adam, and Cain was adam.
That means Cain was a man. It doesn't mean Cain was THE man he was with.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 19 2013,22:40) The hypothesis I was working on is that saying the word is God is similar to saying that God is love with the difference being that instead of meaning God is the attribute of the word, it means God and the word share the same attribute; that of being divine.
Okay. I can see where that might work with an abstract thing like “love”.But does your hypothesis hold water when you change the abstract “love” to a physical “person”?
In other words, will it work if we say “the Word was with Bill, and the word was Bill”? Would that mean that the Word WAS the very “Bill” he was WITH? Or would it be nonsensical to think such a thing?
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 22 2013,04:22) Hi Pierre: Quote now you think that the words that where said by the prophets is less important than the words that Christ said right your are wrong ,you have mist the truth ,and I getting tire to say and show the scriptures to the truth of God ,over and over again ,it seems you do not understand the meaning of them
Quit putting words in my mouth. I did not say any thing about what Word of God was more or less important.
But no other prophet obeyed the Word of God without sin unto death on the cross.
And so if you are tired of my giving you my understanding of the scriptures, then quit responding to my posts.
Have you ever considered that it might just be you that is wrong?
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyMT 23:35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
LK 11:51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generationI do not put words in your mouth ,but your logic of explaining things brings you to that version of events,
THE WORDS SPOKEN BY GOD ARE ALL OF EQUAL POWER ,THE ONE THAT SAYS THEM BECOMES IRRELEVANT TO WHAT IS SPOKEN,BUT IN THE CASE OF CHRIST IT WAS NOT THE WORDS ONLY THAT HE SPOOKED BECAUSE THE WORDS HE SPOOKED WHERE ALREADY WRITTEN AND RECORDED BY PREVIOUS PROPHETS ,BUT IT IS HIS SPECIAL ACTION THAT HE DID ,;FOR THAT IS WHY HE WAS SEND DOWN FROM THE FATHER TO FULFILL THOSE ACTIONS IN THE NAME OF HIS TRUE FATHER AND GOD,SO THAT “THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD IS COMPLETE WITH THE ACTIONS THAT WAS WRITTEN IN IT ;SO THAT GOD'S GLORY WOULD BECOME COMPLETE ,”Quote your are wrong ,you have mist the truth ,and I getting tire to say and show the scriptures to the truth of God ,over and over again ,it seems you do not understand the meaning of them I LET YOU WITH YOUR OWN MIND TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG ;
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 20 2013,20:59) David, I found this quote on a forum and if a true quote then those scholars are not really saying anything different than can be derived by the translations of some.
Quote “We propose that the best way to take the indefinite article in John 1:1c is as an attempt by the Copts to interpret the anarthrous θε?ς descriptively/qualitatively. As a result, they interpreted and translated John 1.1c to mean that ‘the Word' possesses the same qualities as ‘the God of the Bible'.” My source: Jehovah-Witness.net
Two points, Kerwin:First, do you realize that “possessing the same qualities AS the God of the Bible” would eliminate the Word from actually BEING “the God of the Bible”?
That would make “the Word was God” a bad translation – since the Word actually WASN'T “the God of the Bible”.
Secondly, do you realize that if one is “qualitatively man”, that one is, by necessity, “a man”? And therefore, if one is “qualitatively god”, that one is “a god”.
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 21 2013,09:05) The scripture states that “the Word was made flesh”, and so now it is not “the Word” but the flesh or the human being that dwells among us at that point.
Yes. That's much nearer to clearer, Marty. Well done.So you realize that the spirit “Word” actually BECAME the flesh human being known as Jesus Christ, right?
Quote (david @ Nov. 21 2013,10:24) Both DEUT and Malachi are places where it's understandable to have an “a” in Coptic or Even English. I fail to see the point of mentioning that the Coptic has an indefinite article in these two places.
Good point!Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 22 2013,10:30) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 20 2013,20:59) David, I found this quote on a forum and if a true quote then those scholars are not really saying anything different than can be derived by the translations of some.
Quote “We propose that the best way to take the indefinite article in John 1:1c is as an attempt by the Copts to interpret the anarthrous θε?ς descriptively/qualitatively. As a result, they interpreted and translated John 1.1c to mean that ‘the Word' possesses the same qualities as ‘the God of the Bible'.” My source: Jehovah-Witness.net
Two points, Kerwin:First, do you realize that “possessing the same qualities AS the God of the Bible” would eliminate the Word from actually BEING “the God of the Bible”?
That would make “the Word was God” a bad translation – since the Word actually WASN'T “the God of the Bible”.
Secondly, do you realize that if one is “qualitatively man”, that one is, by necessity, “a man”? And therefore, if one is “qualitatively god”, that one is “a god”.
MikeB.All this is getting into a knot,and its getting tighter
and tighter.
This can not be solved by human precept.wakeup.
I believe God gave us brains and logic and reasoning and wisdom for a reason, Wakeup. We are meant to use them.
Some of us aren't comfortable saying, “The Holy Spirit told me God is a rabbit, and therefore I don't need to read the scriptures because the Holy Spirit already told me the truth”.
I want to read it with my own eyes, and understand it (to the best of my ability) with my own brain.
Saying that it's “too hard for humans” is poppycock, because it was for human brains that the scriptures were recorded in the first place.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 22 2013,05:24) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 19 2013,22:40) The hypothesis I was working on is that saying the word is God is similar to saying that God is love with the difference being that instead of meaning God is the attribute of the word, it means God and the word share the same attribute; that of being divine.
Okay. I can see where that might work with an abstract thing like “love”.But does your hypothesis hold water when you change the abstract “love” to a physical “person”?
In other words, will it work if we say “the Word was with Bill, and the word was Bill”? Would that mean that the Word WAS the very “Bill” he was WITH? Or would it be nonsensical to think such a thing?
Mike,It is a hypothesis that has only circumstantial support that I found. It happens to work with God's utterance but that may well be coincidences. If the hypothesis is true then it would take more evidence to reveal whether or not it also works a person.
Quote (david @ Nov. 21 2013,22:24) Quote
Quote
In a recent issue of The Journal of Theological Studies Brian J. Wright and Tim Ricchuiti[24] reason that the indefinite article in the Coptic translation, of John 1:1, has a qualitative meaning. Many such occurrences for qualitative nouns are identified in the Coptic New Testament, including 1 John 1:5 and 1 John 4:8. Moreover the indefinite article is used to refer to God in Deuteronomy 4:31 and Malachi 2:10.DEUT 4:31
“for Jehovah thy God is a merciful God; he will not fail thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.”Don't most bibles have an indefinite article to refer to god in DEUT 4:31? Malachi 2:10 asks: “has not one God created us?” Again, it's descriptive. Both DEUT and Malachi are places where it's understandable to have an “a” in Coptic or Even English.
I fail to see the point of mentioning that the Coptic has an indefinite article in these two places.
David,There argument is what the indefinite means. It seems to me they believer the words should be the Words was one God.
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2013,12:55) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 21 2013,12:41) T, The knowledge and wisdom of God.
KNow we know that utterance means words that are said !
And we know that the wisdom and knowledge of God the creator DO NOT HAVE TO BE SAID :
Just like you watch a chess game championship ,NO ONE TALKS NO ONE MOVES but the knowledge and wisdom of them both is active at is best ,
So no utterance there right
T,Have you considered that Jesus said his words are spirit. God's knowledge and wisdom is in what he says.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 22 2013,10:30) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 20 2013,20:59) David, I found this quote on a forum and if a true quote then those scholars are not really saying anything different than can be derived by the translations of some.
Quote “We propose that the best way to take the indefinite article in John 1:1c is as an attempt by the Copts to interpret the anarthrous θε?ς descriptively/qualitatively. As a result, they interpreted and translated John 1.1c to mean that ‘the Word' possesses the same qualities as ‘the God of the Bible'.” My source: Jehovah-Witness.net
Two points, Kerwin:First, do you realize that “possessing the same qualities AS the God of the Bible” would eliminate the Word from actually BEING “the God of the Bible”?
That would make “the Word was God” a bad translation – since the Word actually WASN'T “the God of the Bible”.
Secondly, do you realize that if one is “qualitatively man”, that one is, by necessity, “a man”? And therefore, if one is “qualitatively god”, that one is “a god”.
Kerwin.How would you respond?
Or, would you respond?
I find it so odd, that people can discuss john 1:1 literally for a decade, and care so little about the Coptic.
Regardless of what “a god” means, it doesn't seem to simply mean “the god” as the definite article could have been used at John 1:1c, but wasn't. Rather, the indefinite article was.
And yes, it could mean “a god,” “divine,” or three other things. But what it doesn't really seem to mean is: “the God.”
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 22 2013,06:39) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2013,12:55) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 21 2013,12:41) T, The knowledge and wisdom of God.
KNow we know that utterance means words that are said !
And we know that the wisdom and knowledge of God the creator DO NOT HAVE TO BE SAID :
Just like you watch a chess game championship ,NO ONE TALKS NO ONE MOVES but the knowledge and wisdom of them both is active at is best ,
So no utterance there right
T,Have you considered that Jesus said his words are spirit. God's knowledge and wisdom is in what he says.
KQuote Have you considered that Jesus said his words are spirit. the words that Jesus spooked where already written ,but the understanding of it was not known,this Jesus full of the holy spirit of truth made it known to his disciples ,and that is what he meant when he says that his words are spirits and life ;
Quote God's knowledge and wisdom is in what he says. I just told you that this is not true ;read the chess mach ;no one speaks and yet both uses their wisdom and knowledge'
words do not mean anything if they are not followed by works
same principal as our faith without works /deeds is dead ,
it would not matter what is your knowledge or wisdom,
understand this
Quote (david @ Nov. 22 2013,07:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 22 2013,10:30) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 20 2013,20:59) David, I found this quote on a forum and if a true quote then those scholars are not really saying anything different than can be derived by the translations of some.
Quote “We propose that the best way to take the indefinite article in John 1:1c is as an attempt by the Copts to interpret the anarthrous θε?ς descriptively/qualitatively. As a result, they interpreted and translated John 1.1c to mean that ‘the Word' possesses the same qualities as ‘the God of the Bible'.” My source: Jehovah-Witness.net
Two points, Kerwin:First, do you realize that “possessing the same qualities AS the God of the Bible” would eliminate the Word from actually BEING “the God of the Bible”?
That would make “the Word was God” a bad translation – since the Word actually WASN'T “the God of the Bible”.
Secondly, do you realize that if one is “qualitatively man”, that one is, by necessity, “a man”? And therefore, if one is “qualitatively god”, that one is “a god”.
Kerwin.How would you respond?
Or, would you respond?
David,John 1:1 a bad translation because we use God as God's name and it is not calling God by his name. They should have left the “the”'s before God when a definite article was there.
A Forth Century translation of any manuscript is questionable as it occurred after the Council of Nicaea and the Arian controversy.
Quote Alexandria became the centre of the first great schism in the Christian world, between the Arians, named for the Alexandrian priest Arius, and their opponents, represented by Athanasius, who became Archbishop of Alexandria in 326 after the First Council of Nicaea rejected Arius's views. The Arian controversy caused years of riots and rebellions throughout most of the 4th century. Note:
Christianity in EgyptQuote (terraricca @ Nov. 22 2013,08:42) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 22 2013,06:39) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2013,12:55) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 21 2013,12:41) T, The knowledge and wisdom of God.
KNow we know that utterance means words that are said !
And we know that the wisdom and knowledge of God the creator DO NOT HAVE TO BE SAID :
Just like you watch a chess game championship ,NO ONE TALKS NO ONE MOVES but the knowledge and wisdom of them both is active at is best ,
So no utterance there right
T,Have you considered that Jesus said his words are spirit. God's knowledge and wisdom is in what he says.
KQuote Have you considered that Jesus said his words are spirit. the words that Jesus spooked where already written ,but the understanding of it was not known,this Jesus full of the holy spirit of truth made it known to his disciples ,and that is what he meant when he says that his words are spirits and life ;
Quote God's knowledge and wisdom is in what he says. I just told you that this is not true ;read the chess mach ;no one speaks and yet both uses their wisdom and knowledge'
words do not mean anything if they are not followed by works
same principal as our faith without works /deeds is dead ,
it would not matter what is your knowledge or wisdom,
understand this
T,Words too can be works, such as preaching the good news. That same good news contains the wisdom and knowledge of God.
Yes, God's other works also contain his wisdom and knowledge.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 22 2013,09:37) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 22 2013,08:42) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 22 2013,06:39) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2013,12:55) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 21 2013,12:41) T, The knowledge and wisdom of God.
KNow we know that utterance means words that are said !
And we know that the wisdom and knowledge of God the creator DO NOT HAVE TO BE SAID :
Just like you watch a chess game championship ,NO ONE TALKS NO ONE MOVES but the knowledge and wisdom of them both is active at is best ,
So no utterance there right
T,Have you considered that Jesus said his words are spirit. God's knowledge and wisdom is in what he says.
KQuote Have you considered that Jesus said his words are spirit. the words that Jesus spooked where already written ,but the understanding of it was not known,this Jesus full of the holy spirit of truth made it known to his disciples ,and that is what he meant when he says that his words are spirits and life ;
Quote God's knowledge and wisdom is in what he says. I just told you that this is not true ;read the chess mach ;no one speaks and yet both uses their wisdom and knowledge'
words do not mean anything if they are not followed by works
same principal as our faith without works /deeds is dead ,
it would not matter what is your knowledge or wisdom,
understand this
T,Words too can be works, such as preaching the good news. That same good news contains the wisdom and knowledge of God.
Yes, God's other works also contain his wisdom and knowledge.
KGods wisdom and knowledge would never be known,if it was not for the great works he did ,stop being blind my friend,so is the gospel preaching this was one of Christ works but the result of the works is the glory of the one than preaches ,so it is with the works of God so that all glory goes to the father , but many have taking part of God's great works and so they receive a glory according to their participation ,this is lay out in scriptures i believe by Paul,
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