JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

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October 28, 2013 at 10:37 pm#360423

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 27 2013,14:00)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

BUT THE EARTH REMAINED IN DARKNESS, DESPITE ALL THESE THINGS, UNTIL THE FOURTH DAY?

There was no night and day on earth and no source of light I know of until the fourth night and day of creation. God worked on the earth on both the second and third day but nothing except the primary creation of it is mentioned is mentioned on the first day.

Kerwin, why didn't you quote the rest of what I said?

1. The earth was there and dark, right? YES or NO?

2. Then God said, “Let there be light”, right? YES or NO?

3. Then there WAS light, right? YES or NO?

4. Then God saw that the light was good, right? YES or NO?

A normal person would understand that the earth was dark UNTIL God said, “Let there be light”………. and at that time, the earth was no longer in darkness.

But you seem to think there is no connection between the dark earth and God letting there be light. You believe that the earth remained in darkness despite the fact that God said, “Let there be light”, and despite the fact that there WAS light, and despite the fact that God saw that the light was good. Hmmm……………..

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 27 2013,14:00)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

2. a stone representing the nominal starting place in the construction of a monumental building, usually carved with the date and laid with appropriate ceremonies (“Appropriate ceremonies” like morning stars singing and angels shouting for joy, perhaps?

)

The children of Israelites of that age are not Americans of this age. I am going by Ezra 3:10.

Ezra 3:10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

10 And when the builders laid the foundation of the temple of the Lord, they set the priests in their apparel with trumpets, and the Levites the sons of Asaph with cymbals, to praise the Lord, after the ordinance of David king of Israel.

Psalm 118:22
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

22 The stone which the builders refused
is become the head stone of the corner.

The verses you quoted also concern the “nominal starting place”, or “foundation” of something. Neither verse refers to a “capstone” that is the last thing to be laid.

So the angels shouted for joy when God laid the FOUNDATIONS of the earth, ie: the cornerstone.

October 28, 2013 at 10:41 pm#360424

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 28 2013,09:43)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2013,10:45)

marty

Quote

Job 1:6 is speaking about angels, not men who have been born again, and have the power to become the sons of God through Jesus.

look at the HEBREW ORIGINAL it says ” SONS OF GOD” I believe the original Hebrew version ;

KJV
Now there was a day
when the sons
of God
came
(8799) to present
(8692) themselves before the LORD
_, and Satan

Hi Pierre:

I don't know what dictionary or other reference that you are using to get your understanding.

03117 is not the number that Strong's concordance uses for this definition.

Love in Christ,
Marty

I'm not sure who's claiming what here, but the “sons of God” in Job 1:6 and 2:1 are spirit sons of God, ie: angels.

October 28, 2013 at 10:48 pm#360425

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 28 2013,09:58)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 28 2013,04:09)

Okay Marty. But did you notice that EVERYTHING said about “the Word” in John 1 is also said in scripture about “Jesus”? Because that is what I thought you would see from my post.

Marty, consider the last words of 1:14……. “full of grace and truth”. Now consider the exact moment in John 1 where John stops calling this person “the Word” and starts calling him “Jesus”. (Follow the words “grace” and “truth”):

16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace……..

At this point, “the Word” is still the subject of the teaching, and the name “Jesus” has not yet been written. So at this point, we know that grace came to us through “the Word”.

DO YOU AGREE SO FAR? YES or NO?

Now watch:

17 ……grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Do you agree that verse 16 says grace came from “the Word”? YES or NO?

And do you agree that verse 17 says grace came from “Jesus Christ”? YES or NO?

Now look back to verse 14: We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Verse 14 is written about the one that had so far only been identified as “the Word”. Do you agree? And this “Word” came FROM the Father, full of grace and truth. Do you agree?

1. Is the Word actually the Father Himself? Or did the Word come FROM the Father? Which one?

2. Are you able to see that “grace and truth” came from the Word? And are you able to see that “grace and truth” came from Jesus Christ?

Hi Mike:

Jesus was born into this world a man child and the scriptures state:

I agree 100% that Jesus was born into this world as a “man child” (by which strange language I assume you mean “human child”).

So we both agree on that, and therefore it never needs to be brought up again in one of our discussions, right? (Because it is a diversion, and not any kind of ANSWER to all the points I made in the above post.)

So let's go more slowly:

John 1:14
The Word ~~became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father,~~ full of grace and truth.

Forget all the other words for a minute, and focus only on the big ones. Can you and I agree that “the Word” came to us “full of grace and truth”?

October 28, 2013 at 11:22 pm#360427

terraricca

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2013,04:41)

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 28 2013,09:43)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2013,10:45)

marty

Quote

Job 1:6 is speaking about angels, not men who have been born again, and have the power to become the sons of God through Jesus.

look at the HEBREW ORIGINAL it says ” SONS OF GOD” I believe the original Hebrew version ;

KJV
Now there was a day
when the sons
of God
came
(8799) to present
(8692) themselves before the LORD
_, and Satan

Hi Pierre:

I don't know what dictionary or other reference that you are using to get your understanding.

03117 is not the number that Strong's concordance uses for this definition.

Love in Christ,
Marty

I'm not sure who's claiming what here, but the “sons of God” in Job 1:6 and 2:1 are spirit sons of God, ie: angels.

Mike

I wanted to point out to Marty ;that Christ is called THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD ;AND YET THEIR ARE MANY SONS OF GOD like it says in Job 1;6 and so I ask why would that claim be true ;THAT CHRIST IS THE ONLY SON OF GOD

October 28, 2013 at 11:30 pm#360429

kerwin

Participant

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 29 2013,01:49)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 25 2013,12:17)

Quote

A soul is composed of spirit but the Spirit is not the soul. The Spirit is something to be lived by and the soul does the living.

Kerwin,

ARE YOU REFERRING TO JESUS?

NOW READ AGAIN TO MAKE SURE WHAT YOU ARE CLAIMING:

JEREMIAH 32:41 And I will rejoice over them, when I shall do them good: and I will plant them in this land in truth,

WITH MY WHOLE HEART,AND WITH ALL MY SOUL. BOTH JESUS'

NOW, ARE YOU CLAIMING THAT THE FATHER'S SOUL AND HEART ARE LIKE YOURS!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

Charles,

A strange way of looking at JEREMIAH 32:41. We are to love God with all of our heart and soul but that does not mean our heart and soul are physically located with him. In the same way God's heart and soul is not physically located with us.

A soul is the essential being whether it is God's soul, an angel's soul, a human soul, or a soul of a beast. God is not one of his creations nor is a beast a human.

God's spirit is the spirit he lives by and he sends it to those that believe in Jesus' name so that it will write his word on their minds and place it in their inward self.

A person is instructed to live by God's spirit not by God's soul. Jesus is the way to obtain and live by God's spirit.

October 28, 2013 at 11:35 pm#360431

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2013,17:22)

Mike

Yes,

Jesus is definitely a son of God in a way that none other is a son of God. There is a reason that Jesus is the ONLY one to be called God's ONLY begotten Son.

October 29, 2013 at 2:05 am#360446

terraricca

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2013,05:35)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2013,17:22)

Mike

Yes,

Jesus is definitely a son of God in a way that none other is a son of God. There is a reason that Jesus is the ONLY one to be called God's ONLY begotten Son.

Mike

Yes he is surely the very first of God creation and so his only begotten son ,while all others angels or men are called sons by affiliation ;like IF FAITHFUL TO GOD ;ARE SONS OF GOD '

FAITHFUL AND SINLESS MEN ARE ALSO CALLED SONS OF MEN (THIS REDUCE THE NUMBER TO TWO BUT COULD BE EXTENDED )
Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

SATAN BEING A REBEL ANGEL AND HIS ANGELS ALSO DO NOT SEEM TO BE GOD'S SONS BUT SATANS SONS BECAUSE HIS FATHERHOOD IN SIN;

October 29, 2013 at 3:24 am#360454

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2013,10:35)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2013,17:22)

Mike

Yes,

Jesus is definitely a son of God in a way that none other is a son of God. There is a reason that Jesus is the ONLY one to be called God's ONLY begotten Son.

Mike B.

I agree:
Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.
For he was born *BY THE WILL OF GOD*.
Billions of angels are also the sons of God,but not born.
The were created spirit creatures.
Jesus was born in the flesh,*by the will of God*.
HE IS MY BELOVED SON;HEAR YE HIM.

wakeup.

October 29, 2013 at 3:51 am#360458

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 29 2013,09:24)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2013,10:35)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2013,17:22)

Mike

Yes,

Jesus is definitely a son of God in a way that none other is a son of God. There is a reason that Jesus is the ONLY one to be called God's ONLY begotten Son.

Mike B.

wakeup.

That his not the reason for Christ to be the only son of God,

Adam was the first human son of God until he sinned,

Christ was the first heavenly son of God and he never sinned ,No other being can claim that he his created to the image of God ,Col 1-15–21

October 29, 2013 at 8:17 am#360473

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 29 2013,14:51)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 29 2013,09:24)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2013,10:35)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2013,17:22)

Mike

Yes,

Jesus is definitely a son of God in a way that none other is a son of God. There is a reason that Jesus is the ONLY one to be called God's ONLY begotten Son.

Mike B.

wakeup.

That his not the reason for Christ to be the only son of God,

Adam was the first human son of God until he sinned,

Christ was the first heavenly son of God and he never sinned ,No other being can claim that he his created to the image of God ,Col 1-15–21

Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON,because He is born
by the will of God. And he was the Word made flesh.
He was from *everlasting* in God.
He has *no beginning* in God.
No one can claim this, but Jesus.

The proof is in Jesus own Words.

John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that

***I came out from God***.

John 16:28 ***I came forth from the Father***,

and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

God **brought forth** his Word before creation:
***And the Word was *WITH* God***.

The word was *IN* God before creation: God alone,NONE ELSE: JUST GOD WITH HIMSELF.
***And the Word *WAS* God***.

wakeup.

October 29, 2013 at 3:40 pm#360491

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 29 2013,14:17)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 29 2013,14:51)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 29 2013,09:24)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 29 2013,10:35)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2013,17:22)

Mike

Yes,

Jesus is definitely a son of God in a way that none other is a son of God. There is a reason that Jesus is the ONLY one to be called God's ONLY begotten Son.

Mike B.

wakeup.

That his not the reason for Christ to be the only son of God,

Adam was the first human son of God until he sinned,

Christ was the first heavenly son of God and he never sinned ,No other being can claim that he his created to the image of God ,Col 1-15–21

Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON,because He is born
by the will of God. And he was the Word made flesh.
He was from *everlasting* in God.
He has *no beginning* in God.
No one can claim this, but Jesus.

The proof is in Jesus own Words.

John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that

***I came out from God***.

John 16:28 ***I came forth from the Father***,

and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

God **brought forth** his Word before creation:
***And the Word was *WITH* God***.

The word was *IN* God before creation: God alone,NONE ELSE: JUST GOD WITH HIMSELF.
***And the Word *WAS* God***.

wakeup.

you have to do better than that ;I want to see all the scriptures about “THE WORD OF GOD ” EVEN REVELATION 19'''AND COL 1;15-21 AND PROVERB 8;22–31 AND JOHN 17; AND JOHN 1 ;1-4-38 AND YOUR EXPLANATION SHOULD NOT BREAK ANY OF THOSE SCRIPTURES INCLUDING THIS ONE ;

1Jn 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

AND ALSO EXPLAIN JOHN1-1 ; WHY IT SAYS “AND WAS GOD ” AND NOT “AND WAS A GOD ” ACCORDING TO OLDER TRANSLATION,WELL EXPLAINED BY MIKE

SO LET SEE WHAT YOU KNOW ,AS AN STARTED

October 29, 2013 at 4:01 pm#360495

terraricca

Participant

HERE IS MORE ;

Here are just a few.

John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Acts 28:6 NIV
6The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead, but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happen to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god.

Acts 12:22
They shouted, “This is the voice of a god, not of a man.”

1 Corinthians 8:7
But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

While the Greeks did not use the indefinite article “a”, English translators add it in each and every time it is necessary for us to read the passage sensibly. That is………every time but one – John 1:1.

You seem to be picking and choosing here t8. When in reference to an idol, then you say the word “a” should be added, but understood it refers to “A” false god.

But when used of others besides idols, you want to leave the “A” out and call it “nature” or “a qualifyer”.

So was Herod speaking like “A” god, or did he have the nature of God Himself? Did the people on Malta think Paul was “a god”, or that he had the nature of God Himself?

And what about 1 Cor? Does it mean God is not “A” God of disorder, or that God is not “the nature of God” of disorder?

And which one makes more sense when Paul calls Satan the god of this age? Is Paul calling Satan “A” god or mighty one, or is he saying he has the “nature of God”?

The way I see it, the English translators are right to add the “A” in all of the above scriptures so they make sense to us. It just makes me wonder why the NWT seems to be the only translation that is not afraid to stick with the formula and also add it in John 1:1. Actually, it doesn't make me wonder at all – we both know that “the Word was God” makes a much more compelling case for the trinitarians.

As far as our discussion goes, if you agree that the above scriptures should have the “A” added, then why would you just assume for some reason that it SHOULDN'T also be added in John 1

THIS IS A TRANSFER FROM MIKE QUOTE IN “PREEXISTANCE OF CHRIST ” BUT PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION

October 29, 2013 at 5:29 pm#360504

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 30 2013,03:01)