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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2013,09:38) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 20 2013,14:19) “Logos” by definition is not a person, but are the sayings of God which embody God's plan for humanity and reveal to humanity His Character.
The same as in English, “word” is by definition not normally a person. But if a spokesman is called by the title “the word of the king”, it does refer to a person.In Revelation, Jesus is called “the Word of God”. Does “logos” refer to a person in that verse?
No, Mike:The Word of God says about Jesus in Revelation 19 that “his name shall be called “the Word of God”, and not that “he is the Word of God”, and that is the problem with you is that you keep adding a little twist here and there. This is the scripture:
Quote
Rev 19:13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
But even so, he is not called this his ministry.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (2besee @ Oct. 20 2013,16:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2013,11:47) Quote (2besee @ Oct. 20 2013,16:10) But you know what I believe, Mike. And I know what you believe.
Who do you think the “US” is in Gen 1:26, 2B? I wonder who Irenaeus thought the “US” was.
God and his spirit, and his spoken word.
Your use of the word “AND” tells us that the Holy Spirit and the Word are not actually God Himself. (Otherwise you couldn't say “God AND so and so……”)Quote (942767 @ Oct. 20 2013,17:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2013,09:38) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 20 2013,14:19) “Logos” by definition is not a person, but are the sayings of God which embody God's plan for humanity and reveal to humanity His Character.
The same as in English, “word” is by definition not normally a person. But if a spokesman is called by the title “the word of the king”, it does refer to a person.In Revelation, Jesus is called “the Word of God”. Does “logos” refer to a person in that verse?
No, Mike:The Word of God says about Jesus in Revelation 19 that “his name shall be called “the Word of God”, and not that “he is the Word of God”, and that is the problem with you is that you keep adding a little twist here and there. This is the scripture:
Quote
Rev 19:13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
But even so, he is not called this his ministry.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty, WHOSE name is called “The Word of God” in that verse?Quote (942767 @ Oct. 21 2013,04:23) Hi Pierre: I have looked at this scripture, and let us look at it again:
Quote Hbr 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hbr 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
It states “by whom He(God) has made the worlds, and the “by whom” refers to the Son that He (God has spoken to humanity in these last days”)
God did not speak to humanity through Jesus until he came in His ministry, but God created everything that He created knowing that He would send Jesus forth into the world at this time to fulfill his purpose for this world and for humanity, and that is what is meant that God created every thing that he created every thing that he created by him and for him. God knew of this event from the beginning. Jesus was foreordained.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martyif the WORD was a word or words then we would not called it whom ,but “it” or “thing ” or “orders” or “wills” or “desires” but definitely NOT A WHOM ,WHAT IT ALWAYS REFERS TO A PERSON
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2013,12:43) Quote (2besee @ Oct. 20 2013,16:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2013,11:47) Quote (2besee @ Oct. 20 2013,16:10) But you know what I believe, Mike. And I know what you believe.
Who do you think the “US” is in Gen 1:26, 2B? I wonder who Irenaeus thought the “US” was.
God and his spirit, and his spoken word.
Your use of the word “AND” tells us that the Holy Spirit and the Word are not actually God Himself. (Otherwise you couldn't say “God AND so and so……”)
Mike,
You consist of your mind, and your spirit, and your word, and your flesh. All of those things are a part of you. They are not something else.
If they are something else, then who are they?Man was made in God's IMAGE.
The only thing different was the flesh body.
Correct?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 20 2013,21:27) Kerwin, I'm not sure anymore what we're even talking about. I thought I was showing you that the earth was already there when God said, “Let there be light”, and that the angels must have also been there since they shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth.
I can't make heads or tails out of your recent comments concerning this topic. But I haven't seen anything in your posts that would change my mind – or change the fact that my understanding is clearly spelled out in the scriptures.
Mike,The angels were celebrating the setting of the capstone, which also a cornerstone, of the foundation just as the Jews celebrated the laying of the capstone of the foundation of the second temple. That is why they shouted and sang when it was laid into place.
There is nothing to say the angels were there before heaven and earth were created or before God said let there be light.
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 20 2013,22:12) kerwin Quote Conversely, Thomas B. Talbott points to “God is Love” (1 John 4:8 and 1 John 4:16), meaning not merely that God “happens to love,” but rather that love is an essential aspect of God. Talbott uses this to defend Universalism because God must be loving in all God's acts, precluding eternal damnation. 2 This mere man agrees with me about what the statement “God is love” means. I used the scriptural pattern from it and on the statement “the word was God” and then voiced my conclusion that God is an aspect of the word.
the expression that “GOD IS LOVE ” MEANS ACCORDING TO MY UNDERSTANDING IN THE SCRIPTURES ;THAT ALL WHAT GOD DOES IS DONE OUT OF LOVE FOR THE BEINGS HE HAS CREATED ,AND NOT FOR THEIR DOOM,LOVE BEING ONLY ONE OF GOD'S QUALITIES,RIGHTEOUSNESS BEING ANOTHER ONE ,SO IS FAITHFUL AND MANY MORE ,
T,Even when God judges a person as doomed to destruction it is done out of love.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 21 2013,11:13) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 20 2013,22:12) kerwin Quote Conversely, Thomas B. Talbott points to “God is Love” (1 John 4:8 and 1 John 4:16), meaning not merely that God “happens to love,” but rather that love is an essential aspect of God. Talbott uses this to defend Universalism because God must be loving in all God's acts, precluding eternal damnation. 2 This mere man agrees with me about what the statement “God is love” means. I used the scriptural pattern from it and on the statement “the word was God” and then voiced my conclusion that God is an aspect of the word.
the expression that “GOD IS LOVE ” MEANS ACCORDING TO MY UNDERSTANDING IN THE SCRIPTURES ;THAT ALL WHAT GOD DOES IS DONE OUT OF LOVE FOR THE BEINGS HE HAS CREATED ,AND NOT FOR THEIR DOOM,LOVE BEING ONLY ONE OF GOD'S QUALITIES,RIGHTEOUSNESS BEING ANOTHER ONE ,SO IS FAITHFUL AND MANY MORE ,
T,Even when God judges a person as doomed to destruction it is done out of love.
Kbut you have to add justice and righteousness as well
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 21 2013,02:18) Quote (jammin @ Oct. 20 2013,12:16) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 20 2013,01:41) Jammin, Quote what??? GOD is an aspect of the WORD? where did you get that??
that is not written in greek bible.
make your own bible and revised john 1.1 LOLI obtained it in the way I said I did.
Since you missed it, I will go over it in more detail.
1 John 4:8 & 16 both state “God is love” but it is not to be understood literal as you in part understand the statement “the word is God”. Instead is declaring love is an aspect of God.
Applying the same scriptural pattern obtained from these two passages to the clause the word is God we come to understand that God is an aspect of his word.
To test this I asked is God an aspect of his word and the answer is yes as it is his word.
then give me a greek bible that says in john 1.1 that God is an aspect of the Word.ill give you 1million year to find one
Jammin,I pointed out how the AKJV does and you chose to disbelieve without giving a logical reason, or any reason at all.
But you have already revealed you choose to put your faith in mere men and what and there translations and interpretations. Let us point to one these mere men that is a Trinitarian and with whose teachings I disagree.
His credentials by the education establishment's criteria.
Quote Thomas Talbott is Professor Emeritus of Philosophy at Willamette University, Salem, Oregon. He is best known for his advocacy of Trinitarian Universalism. 1 His claim about the statement God is love.
Quote Conversely, Thomas B. Talbott points to “God is Love” (1 John 4:8 and 1 John 4:16), meaning not merely that God “happens to love,” but rather that love is an essential aspect of God. Talbott uses this to defend Universalism because God must be loving in all God's acts, precluding eternal damnation. 2 This mere man agrees with me about what the statement “God is love” means. I used the scriptural pattern from it and on the statement “the word was God” and then voiced my conclusion that God is an aspect of the word.
Quote Translations by James Moffatt, Hugh J. Schonfield and Edgar Goodspeed render part of the verse as “…and the Word was divine.”3 Quote James Moffatt (1870-1944) was a theologian and graduate of Glasgow University. Moffatt trained at the Free Church College, Glasgow, and was a practising minister before becoming Professor of Greek and New Testament Exegesis at Mansfield College, Oxford in 1911. 4 Quote Hugh Joseph Schonfield (London, 17 May 1901 – January 24, 1988, London) was a British Bible scholar specializing in the New Testament and the early development of the Christian religion and church. 5 1) Thomas Talbott
2) Talbott quote is from Fire in the Bones blog
3) Quote about John 1:1 translations.
4) James Moffatt
5) Hugh J. Schonfield
im not putting my belief to those men. what im saying is they KNOW what they are doing. they translated greek to english not will all small letters but those words need capitalization, they capitalize the letter.you told me that you cant find big letters in greek. can you give me english bible that is written in all small letters?
you told me that God is an aspect of the WORD.
can you read that in john 1.1?:you are telling me lies kerwin. you are the one who wants doctrine from men.you are preaching doctrines from men and not from God.
you should make your own bible so that you can support your imagination. do you understand?
bible versions will not agree with you. commentaries wont also agree with you.
the best way for you to support your imagination is you create your own bible.
that is your only option.kerwin,
about the translation the Word was divine, you can check what moffat said. he said the Word was divine.
he did not say the word but Word. it is capital W. do you know the reason behind it why they translated is as Word ant not word?? bec that is a title or name of Christ.
rev 19.13now let me give a version of james moffat
here is what he said
john 1.1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
you know what, you need to study hard.
im sorry boy but your belief cant be supported by the bible. you should make your ownQuote (jammin @ Oct. 21 2013,23:08) kerwin, about the translation the Word was divine, you can check what moffat said. he said the Word was divine.
he did not say the word but Word. it is capital W. do you know the reason behind it why they translated is as Word ant not word?? bec that is a title or name of Christ.
rev 19.13now let me give a version of james moffat
here is what he said
john 1.1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
you know what, you need to study hard.
im sorry boy but your belief cant be supported by the bible. you should make your own
Jamminin……….ALL original Greek text are in Capitals of upper case lettering, the lower case Greek did not start until around 900 AD. Check it out. So all lettering in the original Greek was upper case. So who gave the right for the change (the Trinitarian) translators and Preexistence-rs did> They slant scriptures to meet their own “beliefs” by using Upper case and Lower case texts, that was not the case originally.peace and love………………….gene
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 21 2013,11:12) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 21 2013,04:23) Hi Pierre: I have looked at this scripture, and let us look at it again:
Quote Hbr 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hbr 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
It states “by whom He(God) has made the worlds, and the “by whom” refers to the Son that He (God has spoken to humanity in these last days”)
God did not speak to humanity through Jesus until he came in His ministry, but God created everything that He created knowing that He would send Jesus forth into the world at this time to fulfill his purpose for this world and for humanity, and that is what is meant that God created every thing that he created every thing that he created by him and for him. God knew of this event from the beginning. Jesus was foreordained.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martyif the WORD was a word or words then we would not called it whom ,but “it” or “thing ” or “orders” or “wills” or “desires” but definitely NOT A WHOM ,WHAT IT ALWAYS REFERS TO A PERSON
The Word in John 1 pertains to Jesus, but he was foreordained, and he did not exist as a sentient person until he was born into this world of the virgin Mary, and God did not speak to humanity through him until his ministry on earth.If you will check the OT tell me how many scriptures either prophetic or symbolic relate to his coming.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2013,10:44) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 20 2013,17:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2013,09:38) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 20 2013,14:19) “Logos” by definition is not a person, but are the sayings of God which embody God's plan for humanity and reveal to humanity His Character.
The same as in English, “word” is by definition not normally a person. But if a spokesman is called by the title “the word of the king”, it does refer to a person.In Revelation, Jesus is called “the Word of God”. Does “logos” refer to a person in that verse?
No, Mike:The Word of God says about Jesus in Revelation 19 that “his name shall be called “the Word of God”, and not that “he is the Word of God”, and that is the problem with you is that you keep adding a little twist here and there. This is the scripture:
Quote
Rev 19:13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
But even so, he is not called this his ministry.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty, WHOSE name is called “The Word of God” in that verse?
Hi Mike:Listen to this video, and pay close attention to what it means when a scripture such as this one states “his name is called” or “his name shall be called” or the one in Isaiah which states “his name shall be called: “wonderful, counselor, prince of peace, mighty God.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….=942767
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Oct. 22 2013,00:31) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 21 2013,11:12) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 21 2013,04:23) Hi Pierre: I have looked at this scripture, and let us look at it again:
Quote Hbr 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hbr 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
It states “by whom He(God) has made the worlds, and the “by whom” refers to the Son that He (God has spoken to humanity in these last days”)
God did not speak to humanity through Jesus until he came in His ministry, but God created everything that He created knowing that He would send Jesus forth into the world at this time to fulfill his purpose for this world and for humanity, and that is what is meant that God created every thing that he created every thing that he created by him and for him. God knew of this event from the beginning. Jesus was foreordained.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martyif the WORD was a word or words then we would not called it whom ,but “it” or “thing ” or “orders” or “wills” or “desires” but definitely NOT A WHOM ,WHAT IT ALWAYS REFERS TO A PERSON
The Word in John 1 pertains to Jesus, but he was foreordained, and he did not exist as a sentient person until he was born into this world of the virgin Mary, and God did not speak to humanity through him until his ministry on earth.If you will check the OT tell me how many scriptures either prophetic or symbolic relate to his coming.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyGe 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
Mt 21:33 “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey.
Mt 21:34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
Mt 21:35 “The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.
Mt 21:36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way.
Mt 21:37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.
Mt 21:38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’
Mt 21:39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
Mt 21:40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
Mt 21:41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”
Mt 21:42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“ ‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstonePs 118:19 Open for me the gates of righteousness;
I will enter and give thanks to the LORD.
Ps 118:20 This is the gate of the LORD
through which the righteous may enter.
Ps 118:21 I will give you thanks, for you answered me;
you have become my salvation.Ps 118:22 The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone;
Ps 118:23 the LORD has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes.
Ps 118:24 This is the day the LORD has made;
let us rejoice and be glad in it.this is spoken about Christ coming just as Jesus spoke in his parable ,
if you do not believe the scriptures as they are written ,no one can help you in this life may be in the second resurrection God will ,
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2013,09:04) Mt 21:33 “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey.
Mt 21:34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
Mt 21:35 “The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.
Mt 21:36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way.
Mt 21:37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.
Mt 21:38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’
Mt 21:39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
Mt 21:40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
Mt 21:41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”
Mt 21:42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“ ‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstonethis is spoken about Christ coming just as Jesus spoke in his parable ,
if you do not believe the scriptures as they are written ,no one can help you in this life may be in the second resurrection God will ,
The shepherd of hermas parable of the vineyard.
I shall unfold to you
the meaning of the similitudes of the field,
and of all the others that follow, that you
may make them known to every one.
Hear now,” he said, “and understand them.
The field is this world; and the Lord of the
field is He who created, and perfected, and
strengthened all things; and the son is the
Holy Spirit; and the slave is the Son of God;
and the vines are this people, whom He
Himself planted; and the stakes are the holy
angels of the Lord, who keep His people
together; and the weeds that were plucked
out of the vineyard are the iniquities of
God's servants; and the dishes which He sent
Him from His able are the commandments
which He gave His people through His Son;
and the friends and fellow-councillors are
the holy angels who were first created; and
the Master's absence from home is the time
that remains until His appearing.”
I said to him, “Sir, all these are great, and
marvellous, and glorious things. Could I,
therefore,” I continued, “understand them?
No, nor could any other man, even if
exceedingly wise. Moreover,” I added,
“explain to me what I am about to ask you.”
“Say what you wish,” he replied.
“Why, sir,” I asked, “is the Son of God in the
parable in the form of a slave?”CHAPTER 6.
82. “Hear,” he answered: “the Son of God is
not in the form of a slave, but in great
power and might.”
“How so, sir?” I said; “I do not understand.”
“Because,” he answered, “God planted the
vineyard, that is to say, He created the
people, and gave them to His Son; and the
Son appointed His angels over them to keep
them; and He Himself purged away their sins,
having suffered many trials and undergone
many labours, for no one is able to dig
without labour and toil.
He Himself, then, having purged away the
sins of the people, showed them the paths of
life by giving them the law which He
received from His Father. [You see,” he said,
“that He is the Lord of the people, having
received all authority from His Father. ] And
why the Lord took His Son as councillor, and
the glorious angels, regarding the heirship of
the slave, listen. The holy, pre-existent Spirit,
that created every creature, God made to
dwell in flesh, which He chose. This flesh,
accordingly, in which the Holy Spirit dwelt,
was nobly subject to that Spirit, walking
religiously and chastely, in no respect
defiling the Spirit; and accordingly, after
living excellently and purely, and after
labouring and co-operating with the Spirit,
and having in everything acted vigorously and
courageously along with the Holy Spirit, He
assumed it as a partner with it.
For this conduct of the flesh pleased Him,
because it was not defiled on the earth while
having the Holy Spirit.
He took, therefore, as fellow-councillors His
Son and the glorious angels, in order that
this flesh, which had been subject to the
body without a fault, might have some place
of tabernacle, and that it might not appear
that the reward [of its servitude had been
lost], for the flesh that has been found
without spot or defilement, in which the Holy
Spirit dwelt, [will receive a reward].
You have now the explanation of this parable
also.”CHAPTER 7.
83. “I rejoice, sir,” I said, “to hear this
explanation.”
“Hear,” again he replied: “Keep this flesh
pure and stainless, that the Spirit which
inhabits it may bear witness to it, and your
flesh may be justified.
See that the thought never arise in your
mind that this flesh of yours is corruptible,
and you misuse it by any act of defilement.
If you defile your flesh, you will also defile
the Holy Spirit; and if you defile your flesh
[and spirit], you will not live.“
“And if any one, sir,” I said, “has been
hitherto ignorant, before he heard these
words, how can such man be saved who has
defiled his flesh?”
“Respecting former sins of ignorance,” he
said, “God alone is able to heal them, for to
Him belongs all power. [But be On your
guard now, and the all-powerful and
compassionate God will heal former
transgressions], if for the time to come you
defile not your body nor your spirit; for both
are common, and cannot be defiled, the one
without the other: keep both therefore pure,
and you will live unto God”Quote (2besee @ Oct. 22 2013,02:39) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2013,09:04) Mt 21:33 “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey.
Mt 21:34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
Mt 21:35 “The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.
Mt 21:36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way.
Mt 21:37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.
Mt 21:38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’
Mt 21:39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
Mt 21:40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
Mt 21:41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”
Mt 21:42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“ ‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstonethis is spoken about Christ coming just as Jesus spoke in his parable ,
if you do not believe the scriptures as they are written ,no one can help you in this life may be in the second resurrection God will ,
The shepherd of hermas parable of the vineyard.
I shall unfold to you
the meaning of the similitudes of the field,
and of all the others that follow, that you
may make them known to every one.
Hear now,” he said, “and understand them.
The field is this world; and the Lord of the
field is He who created, and perfected, and
strengthened all things; and the son is the
Holy Spirit; and the slave is the Son of God;
and the vines are this people, whom He
Himself planted; and the stakes are the holy
angels of the Lord, who keep His people
together; and the weeds that were plucked
out of the vineyard are the iniquities of
God's servants; and the dishes which He sent
Him from His able are the commandments
which He gave His people through His Son;
and the friends and fellow-councillors are
the holy angels who were first created; and
the Master's absence from home is the time
that remains until His appearing.”
I said to him, “Sir, all these are great, and
marvellous, and glorious things. Could I,
therefore,” I continued, “understand them?
No, nor could any other man, even if
exceedingly wise. Moreover,” I added,
“explain to me what I am about to ask you.”
“Say what you wish,” he replied.
“Why, sir,” I asked, “is the Son of God in the
parable in the form of a slave?”CHAPTER 6.
82. “Hear,” he answered: “the Son of God is
not in the form of a slave, but in great
power and might.”
“How so, sir?” I said; “I do not understand.”
“Because,” he answered, “God planted the
vineyard, that is to say, He created the
people, and gave them to His Son; and the
Son appointed His angels over them to keep
them; and He Himself purged away their sins,
having suffered many trials and undergone
many labours, for no one is able to dig
without labour and toil.
He Himself, then, having purged away the
sins of the people, showed them the paths of
life by giving them the law which He
received from His Father. [You see,” he said,
“that He is the Lord of the people, having
received all authority from His Father. ] And
why the Lord took His Son as councillor, and
the glorious angels, regarding the heirship of
the slave, listen. The holy, pre-existent Spirit,
that created every creature, God made to
dwell in flesh, which He chose. This flesh,
accordingly, in which the Holy Spirit dwelt,
was nobly subject to that Spirit, walking
religiously and chastely, in no respect
defiling the Spirit; and accordingly, after
living excellently and purely, and after
labouring and co-operating with the Spirit,
and having in everything acted vigorously and
courageously along with the Holy Spirit, He
assumed it as a partner with it.
For this conduct of the flesh pleased Him,
because it was not defiled on the earth while
having the Holy Spirit.
He took, therefore, as fellow-councillors His
Son and the glorious angels, in order that
this flesh, which had been subject to the
body without a fault, might have some place
of tabernacle, and that it might not appear
that the reward [of its servitude had been
lost], for the flesh that has been found
without spot or defilement, in which the Holy
Spirit dwelt, [will receive a reward].
You have now the explanation of this parable
also.”CHAPTER 7.
83. “I rejoice, sir,” I said, “to hear this
explanation.”
“Hear,” again he replied: “Keep this flesh
pure and stainless, that the Spirit which
inhabits it may bear witness to it, and your
flesh may be justified.
See that the thought never arise in your
mind that this flesh of yours is corruptible,
and you misuse it by any act of defilement.
If you defile your flesh, you will also defile
the Holy Spirit; and if you defile your flesh
[and spirit], you will not live.“
“And if any one, sir,” I said, “has been
hitherto ignorant, before he heard these
words, how can such man be saved who has
defiled his flesh?”
“Respecting former sins of ignorance,” he
said, “God alone is able to heal them, for to
Him belongs all power. [But be On your
guard now, and the all-powerful and
compassionate God will heal former
transgressions], if for the time to come you
defile not your body nor your spirit; for both
are common, and cannot be defiled, the one
without the other: keep both therefore pure,
and you will live unto God”
2beescriptures do not say THAT THE SON HIS THE HOLY SPIRIT ONLY MEN DO INTERPRET IT THAT WAY ;SO I WILL STICK TO THE SCRIPTURES THE WORD OF GOD ,NOT THE WORD OF MEN
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2013,09:04) Ps 118:19 Open for me the gates of righteousness;
I will enter and give thanks to the LORD.
Ps 118:20 This is the gate of the LORD
through which the righteous may enter.
Ps 118:21 I will give you thanks, for you answered me;
you have become my salvation.Ps 118:22 The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone;
Ps 118:23 the LORD has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes.
Ps 118:24 This is the day the LORD has made;
let us rejoice and be glad in it.Shepherd of hermes on the rock and gate.
“Now, sir,” I continued, “show me why the
tower was not built upon the ground, but
upon the rock and upon the gate.”
“Are you still,” he said, “without sense and
understanding?
“I must, sir,” I said, “ask you of all things,
because I am wholly unable to understand
them; for all these things are great and
glorious, and difficult for man to
understand.” “Listen,” he said:
“The name of the Son of God is great, and
cannot be contained, and supports the whole
world. If, then, the whole creation is
supported by the Son of God, what think ye
of those who are called by Him, and bear the
name of the Son of God, and walk in His
commandments? do you see what kind of
persons He supports? Those who bear His
name with their whole heart. He Himself,
accordingly, became a foundation to them,
and supports them with joy, because they are
not ashamed to bear His name.”CHAPTER 15
115. “Explain to me, sir,” I said, “the names
of these virgins, and of those women who
were clothed in black raiment.”
“Hear,” he said, “the names of the stronger
virgins who stood at the comers.
The first is Faith, the second Continence, the
third Power, the fourth Patience. And the
others standing in the midst of these have
the following names: Simplicity, Innocence,
Purity, Cheerfulness, Truth, Understanding,
Harmony, Love.
He who bears these names and that of the
Son of God will be able to enter into the
kingdom of God.
Hear, also,” he continued, “the names of the
women who had the black garments; and of
these four are stronger than the rest.
The first is Unbelief, the second:
Incontinence, the third Disobedience, the
fourth Deceit. And their followers are called
Sorrow, Wickedness, Wantonness, Anger,
Falsehood, Folly, Backbiting, Hatred.
The servant of God who bears these names
shall see, indeed, the kingdom of God, but
shall not enter into it.”
“And the stones, sir,” I said, “which were
taken out of the pit and fitted into the
building: what are they?” “
The first,” he said, “the ten that were placed
as a foundation, are the first generation, and
the twenty-five the second generation, of
righteous men; and the thirty-five are the
prophets of God and His ministers; and the
forty are the apostles and teachers of the
preaching of the Son of God.”
“Why, then, sir,” I asked, “did the virgins
carry these stones also through the gate, and
give them for the building of the tower?”
“Because,” he answered, “these were the first
who bore these spirits, and they never
departed from each other, neither the spirits
from the men nor the men from the spirits,
but the spirits remained with them until
their falling asleep. And unless they had had
these spirits with them, they would not have
been of use for the building of this tower.”CHAPTER 16
116. “Explain to me a little further, sir,” I
said.
“What is it that you desire?” he asked.
“Why, sir,” I said, “did these stones ascend
out of the pit, and be applied to the building
of the tower, after having borne these
spirits?
“They were obliged,” he answered, “to
ascend through water in order that they
might be made alive; for, unless they laid
aside the deadness of their life, they could
not in any other way enter into the kingdom
of God.
Accordingly, those also who fell asleep
received the seal of the Son of God.
For,” he continued, “before a man bears the
name of the Son of God he is dead; but when
he receives the seal he lays aside his
deadness, and obtains life.
The seal, then, is the water: they descend
into the water dead, and they arise alive.
And to them, accordingly, was this seal
preached, and they made use of it that they
might enter into the kingdom of God.”
“Why, sir,” I asked, “did the forty stones also
ascend with them out of the pit, having
already received the seal?”
“Because,” he said, “these apostles and
teachers who preached the name of the Son
of God, after falling asleep in the power and
faith of the Son of God, preached it not only
to those who were asleep, but themselves
also gave them the seal of the preaching.
Accordingly they descended with them into
the water, and again ascended. [But these
descended alive and rose up again alive;
whereas they who had previously fallen
asleep descended dead, but rose up again
alive.]
By these, then, were they quickened and
made to know the name of the Son of God.
For this reason also did they ascend with
them, and were fitted along with them into
the building of the tower, and, untouched by
the chisel, were built in along with them.
For they slept in righteousness and in great
purity, but only they had not this seal.
You have accordingly the explanation of
these also.”CHAPTER 17
117. “I understand, sir,” I replied. “Now,
sir,” I continued, “explain to me, with
respect to the mountains, why their forms
are various and diverse.”
“Listen,” he said: “these mountains are the
twelve tribes, which inhabit the whole world.
The Son of God, accordingly, was preached
unto them by the apostles.”
“But why are the mountains of various kinds,
some having one form, and others another?
Explain that to me, sir.”
“Listen,” he answered:
“These twelve tribes that inhabit the whole
world are twelve nations. And they vary in
prudence and understanding.
As numerous, then, as are the varieties of
the mountains which you saw, are also the
diversities of mind and understanding among
these nations.
And I will explain to you the actions of each
one.”
“First, sir,” I said, “explain this: why, when
the mountains are so diverse, their stones,
when placed in the building, became one
colour, shining like those also that had
ascended out of the pit.”
“Because,” he said, “all the nations that dwell
under heaven were called by hearing and
believing upon the name of the Son of God.
Having, therefore, received the seal, they had
one understanding and one mind; and their
faith became one, and their love one, and
with the name they bore also the spirits of
the virgins. On this account the building of
the tower became of one colour, bright as
the sun. But after they had entered into the
same place, and became one body, certain of
these defiled themselves, and were expelled
from the race of the righteous, and became
again what they were before, or rather
worse.”CHAPTER 18
118.”How, sir,” I said, “did they become
worse, after having known God?”
“He that does not know God,” he answered,
“and practises evil, receives a certain
chastisement for his wickedness; but he that
has known God, ought not any longer to do
evil, but to do good.
If, accordingly, when he ought to do good,
he do evil, does not he appear to do greater
evil than he who does not know God?
For this reason, they who have not known
God and do evil are condemned to death; but
they who have known God, and have se
en His
mighty works, and still continue in evil, shall
be chastised doubly, and shall die for ever.
In this way, then, will the Church of God be
purified.
For as you saw the stones rejected from the
tower, and delivered to the evil spirits, and
cast out thence, so they also shall be cast
out, and there shall be one body of the
purified; as the tower also became, as it
were, of one stone after its purification. In
like manner also shall it be with the Church
of God, after it has been purified, and has
rejected the wicked, and the hypocrites, and
the blasphemers, and the waverers, and those
who commit wickedness of different kinds.
After these have been cast away, the Church
of God shall be one body, of one mind, of
one understanding, of one faith, of one love.
And then the Son of God will be exceeding
glad, and shall rejoice over them, because He
has received His people pure.”
“All these things, sir,” I said, “are great and
glorious. “Moreover, sir,” I said, “explain to
me the power and the actions of each one of
the mountains, that every soul, trusting in
the Lord, and hearing it, may glorify His
great, and marvellous, and glorious name.”
“Hear,” he said, “the diversity of the
mountains and of the twelve nations”Quote
2bee
scriptures do not say THAT THE SON HIS THE
HOLY SPIRIT ONLY MEN DO INTERPRET IT
THAT WAY ;SO I WILL STICK TO THE
SCRIPTURES THE WORD OF GOD ,NOT THE
WORD OF MENTerrarica, wrong. Shepherd was canon. They took it out at the council of nicea. But the earliest church read it out loud in church. That is a fact. Nobody had a problem with its christology!
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2013,07:04) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 22 2013,00:31) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 21 2013,11:12) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 21 2013,04:23) Hi Pierre: I have looked at this scripture, and let us look at it again:
Quote Hbr 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hbr 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
It states “by whom He(God) has made the worlds, and the “by whom” refers to the Son that He (God has spoken to humanity in these last days”)
God did not speak to humanity through Jesus until he came in His ministry, but God created everything that He created knowing that He would send Jesus forth into the world at this time to fulfill his purpose for this world and for humanity, and that is what is meant that God created every thing that he created every thing that he created by him and for him. God knew of this event from the beginning. Jesus was foreordained.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martyif the WORD was a word or words then we would not called it whom ,but “it” or “thing ” or “orders” or “wills” or “desires” but definitely NOT A WHOM ,WHAT IT ALWAYS REFERS TO A PERSON
The Word in John 1 pertains to Jesus, but he was foreordained, and he did not exist as a sentient person until he was born into this world of the virgin Mary, and God did not speak to humanity through him until his ministry on earth.If you will check the OT tell me how many scriptures either prophetic or symbolic relate to his coming.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyGe 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
Mt 21:33 “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey.
Mt 21:34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
Mt 21:35 “The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.
Mt 21:36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way.
Mt 21:37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.
Mt 21:38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’
Mt 21:39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
Mt 21:40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
Mt 21:41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”
Mt 21:42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“ ‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstonePs 118:19 Open for me the gates of righteousness;
I will enter and give thanks to the LORD.
Ps 118:20 This is the gate of the LORD
through which the righteous may enter.
Ps 118:21 I will give you thanks, for you answered me;
you have become my salvation.Ps 118:22 The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone;
Ps 118:23 the LORD has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes.
Ps 118:24 This is the day the LORD has made;
let us rejoice and be glad in it.this is spoken about Christ coming just as Jesus spoke in his parable ,
if you do not believe the scriptures as they are written ,no one can help you in this life may be in the second resurrection God will ,
So, I believe those scriptures as well as this one:Quote Gen 3:14 So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (terraricca @ Oct. 21 2013,12:04) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 21 2013,11:13) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 20 2013,22:12) kerwin Quote Conversely, Thomas B. Talbott points to “God is Love” (1 John 4:8 and 1 John 4:16), meaning not merely that God “happens to love,” but rather that love is an essential aspect of God. Talbott uses this to defend Universalism because God must be loving in all God's acts, precluding eternal damnation. 2 This mere man agrees with me about what the statement “God is love” means. I used the scriptural pattern from it and on the statement “the word was God” and then voiced my conclusion that God is an aspect of the word.
the expression that “GOD IS LOVE ” MEANS ACCORDING TO MY UNDERSTANDING IN THE SCRIPTURES ;THAT ALL WHAT GOD DOES IS DONE OUT OF LOVE FOR THE BEINGS HE HAS CREATED ,AND NOT FOR THEIR DOOM,LOVE BEING ONLY ONE OF GOD'S QUALITIES,RIGHTEOUSNESS BEING ANOTHER ONE ,SO IS FAITHFUL AND MANY MORE ,
T,Even when God judges a person as doomed to destruction it is done out of love.
Kbut you have to add justice and righteousness as well
T,Those are part, or the whole of love.
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