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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2013,11:30) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 14 2013,14:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2013,12:31)
1. Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God were both with God and were God in the beginning?2. Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God actually became a flesh and blood man, who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?
3. Are you telling me that it is the SAYINGS of God who will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes?
Mike:Number 1, the sayings of God were with Him as a plan for His creation, and it is through this plan which was to give us His only begotten Son to be the propitiation for our sins, and to reconcile us unto Himself, He manifests His character. God is love.
#2, The prophetic sayings of God relative to Jesus became a reality when Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, and born into this world of the virgin Mary.
#3: Jesus has been Lord and Christ, and it is through the Word of God that he will make war and judge humanity.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Okay Marty. The following is “the word of God”:“Let there be light.”
Are you saying that the aforementioned “saying of God” could “become flesh, and dwell on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son”?
yesHi Wakeup:
The scriptures state plainly how Jesus was made flesh, and no, I do not believe that Michael is Jesus in a pre-incarnate state, nor do I believe that Jesus existed as a sentient person prior to his birth into this world. He existed in the heart of God, and was manifest to the world at a particular point in time.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (kerwin @ Oct. 16 2013,04:23) Quote (jammin @ Oct. 15 2013,12:59) Therefore you cnt give me any single version or cmentary that say that the word in jn1:1 i rs the hs. Be true to yourself kerwin. How cn u say that your belief is the truth if you cnt supsupport it with docs? Does it make sense?
Jammin,I am not claiming that the word is the holy spirit. I am claiming the the word is God's Law, Promises, Plans, and whatever else is of the like. The context determines the details.
There are three elements recorded in Genesis as being at the creation and they are God; his word, defined as above; and the holy spirit. The Christ is not there.
Hebrews 11:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
John 1:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Both verses are essentially saying the same thing as they wax poetic. The accounts of creation in Genesis also state the same.
word is not the same as Word.
do you understand that boy?JOHN 1.1 is about the Word and not word.
heb 11.3 is talking about word and not Word.do you understand that?
or maybe you need to go back to school.The Word in john 1.1 is not GOd's plan or promises or GOd's law etc. that is only your opinion!
the verse said the Word was GOD.
do you know the meaning of that? that cant be a plan of God or promises or GOd's law because THE WORD WAS GOD john said.
if you know how to read english then you should understand that.the greek bible said
εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογοςdo you see that in greek?
ill repeat
και θεος ην ο λογοςthat was not a plan of GOD. no version would say that.
at the end of the sentence it says the WORD WAS GOD.Jammin,
Quote word is not the same as Word.
do you understand that boy?That is not written in Scripture so where are you getting you information from?
Quote JOHN 1.1 is about the Word and not word.
heb 11.3 is talking about word and not Word.John 1:1-14 is about the logos and Hebrews 11:3 is about the rhema but they both translate to word in English. Neither are ever capitalized in Koine Greek. In both case God's word is treated like a person even though it is not.
Quote The Word in john 1.1 is not GOd's plan or promises or GOd's law etc. that is only your opinion! That is your opinion and like an earlier one has no real basis in Scripture.
Quote the verse said the Word was GOD.
do you know the meaning of that? that cant be a plan of God or promises or God's law because THE WORD WAS GODSince God is love means love is an aspect of God then the Word was God may mean God is an aspect of the Word. It is God's Word so that is a given in more than one way.
Quote the greek bible said
εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογοςdo you see that in greek?
ill repeat
και θεος ην ο λογοςI see there are no capital letters.
kerwin,Oct. wrote:[/quote]
Quote There are three elements recorded in Genesis as being at the creation and they are God; his word, defined as above; and the holy spirit. The Christ is not there. Kerwin,
Christ is the WORD MADE FLESH
NOW THE WORD MADE FLESH IS:
THE FATHER CHRIST'S SPIRIT
THE SON CHRIST'S FLESH BODY
AND THE HOLY SPIRIT CHRIST'S SOUL
SO CHRIST IS THE GODHEAD IN FLESH!
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (carmel @ Oct. 19 2013,02:14) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 16 2013,04:23) Quote There are three elements recorded in Genesis as being at the creation and they are God; his word, defined as above; and the holy spirit. The Christ is not there. Kerwin,
Christ is the WORD MADE FLESH
NOW THE WORD MADE FLESH IS:
THE FATHER CHRIST'S SPIRIT
THE SON CHRIST'S FLESH BODY
AND THE HOLY SPIRIT CHRIST'S SOUL
SO CHRIST IS THE GODHEAD IN FLESH!
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Carmel,That is where you are following a new religion that is not preached by Mosses, David, or the Prophets as there is only three testified as being present at the creation event and that is God who spoke his word, his spoken word by which all things that were created were created, and the Spirit that moved over the waters. Moses does not place anyone else there and David and the Prophets agree but your chosen teaching disagrees.
I agree Jesus is the word made flesh but he was not the word before it gained the aspect of flesh.
Another way of saying the same thing is to say the word is flesh just as God is love but unlike God who has always been love there was a time when the word became flesh.
I choose not to overload you by addressing anything else.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 18 2013,03:50) Jammin, Quote word is not the same as Word.
do you understand that boy?That is not written in Scripture so where are you getting you information from?
Quote JOHN 1.1 is about the Word and not word.
heb 11.3 is talking about word and not Word.John 1:1-14 is about the logos and Hebrews 11:3 is about the rhema but they both translate to word in English. Neither are ever capitalized in Koine Greek. In both case God's word is treated like a person even though it is not.
Quote The Word in john 1.1 is not GOd's plan or promises or GOd's law etc. that is only your opinion! That is your opinion and like an earlier one has no real basis in Scripture.
Quote the verse said the Word was GOD.
do you know the meaning of that? that cant be a plan of God or promises or God's law because THE WORD WAS GODSince God is love means love is an aspect of God then the Word was God may mean God is an aspect of the Word. It is God's Word so that is a given in more than one way.
Quote the greek bible said
εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογοςdo you see that in greek?
ill repeat
και θεος ην ο λογοςI see there are no capital letters.
what??? GOD is an aspect of the WORD? where did you get that??
that is not written in greek bible.
make your own bible and revised john 1.1 LOLthis is really obvious. you are preaching doctrines from men.
you are not even a scholar or a translator.
bible scholars and translators said Word and not word in john 1.1 although some versions say word but you can see in john 1.1 that the Word was God. the sentence tells us that this is not just a word spoken but a title. you can read rev 19.13 and commentaries/versions also support this view.there is a huge difference between the word word and Word. that is why scholars translated john 1.1 logos as Word and not word and you can see in the latter part of the sentence that the Word was God. in greek, kai theos ein ho logos.
study hard boy.
Jammin,
Quote what??? GOD is an aspect of the WORD? where did you get that??
that is not written in greek bible.
make your own bible and revised john 1.1 LOLI obtained it in the way I said I did.
Since you missed it, I will go over it in more detail.
1 John 4:8 & 16 both state “God is love” but it is not to be understood literal as you in part understand the statement “the word is God”. Instead is declaring love is an aspect of God.
Applying the same scriptural pattern obtained from these two passages to the clause the word is God we come to understand that God is an aspect of his word.
To test this I asked is God an aspect of his word and the answer is yes as it is his word.
Jammin,
Quote bible scholars and translators said Word and not word in john 1.1 although some versions say word So you choose to put your trust in those men who translate it Word vs those who translate it word despite the fact you have already quoted Koine Greek, which has no capitals.
I see a bunch of confusion, diversion, and wishful thinking in these posts. I see people who say the Word is “related to”, or “concerns” Jesus; but they won't come out and say it IS Jesus because of selfish personal desires. I see people claiming that literal words that God spoke, like “Let there be light”, actually became a flesh and blood human being.
How did this ever get so confusing for you guys?
Let's do this once again…………..
1. The Word was with God in the beginning —– Jesus had glory alongside God before the word began.
2. All things were created through the Word —– All things were created through Jesus.
3. The Word was the true light that came into the world —– Jesus was the true light that came into the world.
4. All who believed in the name of the Word were given the right to become children of God —– All who believe in the name of Jesus are given the right to become children of God.
5. The Word became flesh —– Jesus existed in the form of God before being made in the likeness of a flesh and blood human being.
6. John the Baptist said these words about the Word: He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me —— John the Baptist said these words about Jesus: He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.
7. The rider of the white horse is called The Word —– The rider of the white horse is Jesus.
How many will it take, fellas? When will sanity kick in for you guys? It gets so old reading the same “denial drivel” over and over. Some of you need to get a clue here.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2013,11:30) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 14 2013,14:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2013,12:31)
1. Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God were both with God and were God in the beginning?2. Are you telling me that the SAYINGS of God actually became a flesh and blood man, who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten?
3. Are you telling me that it is the SAYINGS of God who will ride a white horse and do battle against Satan and his hordes?
Mike:Number 1, the sayings of God were with Him as a plan for His creation, and it is through this plan which was to give us His only begotten Son to be the propitiation for our sins, and to reconcile us unto Himself, He manifests His character. God is love.
#2, The prophetic sayings of God relative to Jesus became a reality when Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, and born into this world of the virgin Mary.
#3: Jesus has been Lord and Christ, and it is through the Word of God that he will make war and judge humanity.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Okay Marty. The following is “the word of God”:“Let there be light.”
Are you saying that the aforementioned “saying of God” could “become flesh, and dwell on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son”?
Hi Mike:What I said is that:
Quote #2, The prophetic sayings of God relative to Jesus became a reality when Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, and born into this world of the virgin Mary. You asked the following question trying to be wise:
Okay Marty. The following is “the word of God”:
”Let there be light.”
Are you saying that the aforementioned “saying of God” could “become flesh, and dwell on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son”?
And I answered yes, because of the following scriptures, although you know that I was talking about the prophetic saying of God relative to Jesus and not all the saying of God.
Quote Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Jhn 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Jhn 12:46
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
The confusion comes when people like you try to add a little word like “a” or “who” to make the scriptures state what you want them to state.
Love in Christ,
MartyNo Marty,
The CONFUSION comes when you let your personal wishes override your ability to understand and believe the seven points I listed in my last post.
(BTW, I only listed seven, but there are dozens of other ones.)
How do you answer those seven, Marty? How do you show me I'm wrong in noticing that all the things said about “the Word” are also said about “Jesus”?
All you have is your fallback nonsense, “Mike, the Word PERTAINS TO Jesus, but isn't actually Jesus.”.
But it has got to be hard for you to continue this denial when the very things said about “the Word” are also said about “Jesus”. It's got to be taxing on your mind to continue to force yourself to accept that “God Almighty Himself” could have been WITH “God Almighty Himself” in the beginning.
It's too bad that you will stick with your denial, Marty. That denial causes you to miss so much of what Jesus actually sacrificed for us.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 20 2013,03:17) No Marty, The CONFUSION comes when you let your personal wishes override your ability to understand and believe the seven points I listed in my last post.
(BTW, I only listed seven, but there are dozens of other ones.)
How do you answer those seven, Marty? How do you show me I'm wrong in noticing that all the things said about “the Word” are also said about “Jesus”?
All you have is your fallback nonsense, “Mike, the Word PERTAINS TO Jesus, but isn't actually Jesus.”.
But it has got to be hard for you to continue this denial when the very things said about “the Word” are also said about “Jesus”. It's got to be taxing on your mind to continue to force yourself to accept that “God Almighty Himself” could have been WITH “God Almighty Himself” in the beginning.
It's too bad that you will stick with your denial, Marty. That denial causes you to miss so much of what Jesus actually sacrificed for us.
Hi Mike, the Greek Word translated “the Word” in John 1 is “Logos”. Look up the meaning of the that word.Love in Christ,
MartyMike,
Quote The Word was with God in the beginning That is why it is written “And God said” in the beginning but you seem to want to add to it.
Genesis 1:1-3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
There are only three mentioned.
1) God
2) God's spoken word.
3) God's SpiritTwo of those are with God and are divine.
There is no forth mentioned.
Quote (942767 @ Oct. 19 2013,10:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 20 2013,03:17) No Marty, The CONFUSION comes when you let your personal wishes override your ability to understand and believe the seven points I listed in my last post.
(BTW, I only listed seven, but there are dozens of other ones.)
How do you answer those seven, Marty? How do you show me I'm wrong in noticing that all the things said about “the Word” are also said about “Jesus”?
All you have is your fallback nonsense, “Mike, the Word PERTAINS TO Jesus, but isn't actually Jesus.”.
But it has got to be hard for you to continue this denial when the very things said about “the Word” are also said about “Jesus”. It's got to be taxing on your mind to continue to force yourself to accept that “God Almighty Himself” could have been WITH “God Almighty Himself” in the beginning.
It's too bad that you will stick with your denial, Marty. That denial causes you to miss so much of what Jesus actually sacrificed for us.
Hi Mike, the Greek Word translated “the Word” in John 1 is “Logos”. Look up the meaning of the that word.Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty, the spokesman for the King of Abyssinian was called Kal Hatze – which means “the word of the king”.Does that mean Kal Hatze was literally a word that the king spoke? YES or NO?
If your answer is “NO” (as it sensibly should be), then tell me how defining the word “word” would be any kind of support for someone who is trying to convince me that Kal Hatze WAS in fact a literal word that the king spoke.
Do you understand? If it is said that God is the “head” of Jesus, would I be able to convince you that God is the literal head on Jesus' shoulders by telling you to look up the meaning of “head”? Of course not. So why then would you think your response above helps this discussion in any way – or proves your point?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 19 2013,11:08) Mike, Quote The Word was with God in the beginning That is why it is written “And God said” in the beginning but you seem to want to add to it.
Genesis 1:1-3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
There are only three mentioned.
1) God
2) God's spoken word.
3) God's SpiritTwo of those are with God and are divine.
There is no forth mentioned.
Kerwin,Which did God create first? The angels? Or the earth?
Obviously the angels, right? Since they sang for joy when he created the earth, right?
So your claim that “there is no fourth mentioned” is null and void, since we know the heavens were FILLED with others when God said “Let there be light”.
Also, once again you wax poetic as if “God's spoken word” was a separate entity that was with Him when created light to shine on the earth. Now all you have to do is eliminate that nonsensical “spoken” part, and sum up by saying God's Word was with Him when created light to shine on the earth.
How far you guys sink down the rabbit hole of Mystery Babylon just because of your own selfish, personal wishes.
Kerwin, I just listed 7 direct points for Marty a couple of posts ago. I listed these 7 plus 3 more for you in a post in a different thread a week ago. Why not, instead of waxing poetic and playing games with semantics, just address each of those direct points DIRECTLY for me – and show me where I'm WRONG about the same things that are said about “the Word” being said about “Jesus”.
Go ahead. Show me which point I've gotten WRONG, Kerwin. For God's sake, at least ADDRESS those points. Say SOMETHING about them. DEAL with them in a DIRECT manner.
Start with #1, and show me how I'm WRONG. Then we can move on to #2, and so forth.
Mike,
I tend to agree with those who claim the angels were made on the second day as light was created on the first day and the angels would have been unable to see anything without it. They are creature made in heaven so they could not have been made before heaven.
Job 38:4-12
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?
declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest?
or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?
or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 when the morning stars sang together,
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth,
as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof,
and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 and brake up for it my decreed place,
and set bars and doors,
11 and said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further:
and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days;
and caused the dayspring to know his place;That teaching may instead come from the order as they are laid down in Job 38:4-12 where the foundations are laid, measured and fashioned and the cornerstone is set before the stars shouted and the son sang. Then afterwards the waters were given borders and broken up as the clouds and darkness of space became the sky.
Kerwin,
The sons of God shouted with joy WHILE God laid the foundations of the earth:
Job 38
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?And the earth was already there, formless and void WHEN God said, “Let there be light”:
Genesis 1
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
Mike,
Quote or who laid its cornerstone—
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?It sounds like it is not the foundations but the cornerstone that is being laid as the stars sing and the sons shout.
I hope to look into it some more.
Note one source for corner stone.
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