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Wakeup,
Quote This is because you still believe that Jesus
is still in the flesh.Denying clear scriptures.
The appearing of Jesus to his apostles is your *stumbling* block. Not understanding,that he *has* to appear in the flesh
to show them his wounds and touch.That it is not just a dream, or a vision,or some other deceiving spirit.No, Scripture states he acted in that way to teach us he is alive after his death.
Acts 1:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)3 to whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Ghosts are spirits and can neither be touched nor eat.
Angels are not spirits and can both be touched and eat.Quote This is because you still believe that Jesus
is still in the flesh.Denying clear scriptures.Is:
Matthew 24:22
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
one clear passage you claim I am denying by claiming flesh will be saved? Rather you are the one that claims no flesh will be saved whether or not God shortens those days.
I am of the opinion that you neither comprehend the use of language in Scripture nor do you seek to learn to understand it at this time.
Quote At the coming,every eye shall see,they must see him coming
He can do it at will. Does not mean that He is flesh,for he is made a quickening spirit; a life giving spirit.He will descend like he ascended, Acts 1:11, and he ascended in the flesh. He will be the Son of mankind when he comes in the clouds, Matthew 24:30.
There is nowhere it is written Jesus is made a life giving spirit, it is written he was made a man. Hebrews 2:6-9.
I only have a limited time and I see nothing added by directly responding to your other points. I both quoted and referenced passages in Scripture to let you know where I am coming from.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 03 2013,15:07) Wakeup, Quote This is because you still believe that Jesus
is still in the flesh.Denying clear scriptures.
The appearing of Jesus to his apostles is your *stumbling* block. Not understanding,that he *has* to appear in the flesh
to show them his wounds and touch.That it is not just a dream, or a vision,or some other deceiving spirit.No, Scripture states he acted in that way to teach us he is alive after his death.
Acts 1:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)3 to whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Ghosts are spirits and can neither be touched nor eat.
Angels are not spirits and can both be touched and eat.Quote This is because you still believe that Jesus
is still in the flesh.Denying clear scriptures.Is:
Matthew 24:22
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
one clear passage you claim I am denying by claiming flesh will be saved? Rather you are the one that claims no flesh will be saved whether or not God shortens those days.
I am of the opinion that you neither comprehend the use of language in Scripture nor do you seek to learn to understand it at this time.
Quote At the coming,every eye shall see,they must see him coming
He can do it at will. Does not mean that He is flesh,for he is made a quickening spirit; a life giving spirit.He will descend like he ascended, Acts 1:11, and he ascended in the flesh. He will be the Son of mankind when he comes in the clouds, Matthew 24:30.
There is nowhere it is written Jesus is made a life giving spirit, it is written he was made a man. Hebrews 2:6-9.
I only have a limited time and I see nothing added by directly responding to your other points. I both quoted and referenced passages in Scripture to let you know where I am coming from.
No, Scripture states he acted in that way to teach us he is alive after his death.(UNQUOTE).
THERE ARE NO SCRIPTURE EITHER THAT SAYS THE DEAD
WILL BE RAISED IN THE FLESH.
SO WE NEED TO USE DISCERNMENT.NEED TO KNOW HOW TO DECERN SCRIPTURES.(QUOTE)
Acts 1:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 to whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
(UNQUOTE):THE WORD *SHOWED* TELLS US THAT HE CAN ALSO *NOT* SHOW HIMSELF. BE INVISIBLE.
(QUOTE).
Ghosts are spirits and can neither be touched nor eat.
Angels are not spirits and can both be touched and eat.
(UNQUOTE).ARE ANGELS NOT SPIRIT? HAVE YOU AVER SEEN
FALLEN ANGELS IN THE FLESH? HAVE YOU, OR ANYONE EVER SEEN SATAN IN THE FLESH?(QUOTE).
Matthew 24:22
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.(UNQUOTE).WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME HERE?
YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT WE ARE ALL FLESH,UNTILL
THE CHANGE. FROM FLESH TO SPIRIT.(QUOTE).
one clear passage you claim I am denying by claiming flesh will be saved? Rather you are the one that claims no flesh will be saved whether or not God shortens those days.
I am of the opinion that you neither comprehend the use of language in Scripture nor do you seek to learn to understand it at this time.(UNQUOTE).I ALWAYS CLAIM WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS. IF THOSE DAYS ARE NOT SHORTENED,
NO FLESH WILL BE SAVED.(QUOTE).
He will descend like he ascended, Acts 1:11, and he ascended in the flesh. He will be the Son of mankind when he comes in the clouds, Matthew 24:30.(UNQUOTE).SCRIPTURE SAYS EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM COMING.
AND YOU ARE USING **YOUR UNDERSTANDING** THINKING THAT HE *MUST BE* FLESH. SO; ARE ANGELS FLESH SATAN IS ALSO FLESH. ONLY GOD IS SPIRIT?YET NO ONE IN 4000YRS HAS EVER SEEN SATAN IN THE FLESH.
JESUS REBUKED SATAN, TRYING TO MAKE THE APOSTLE SAY THE WRONG THINGS,WITH NO ONE EVER SEEING HIM.
THE APOSTLES HAVE NEVER SEEN SATAN.(QUOTE).
There is nowhere it is written Jesus is made a life giving spirit, it is written he was made a man. Hebrews 2:6-9.
(UNQUOTE).THIS VERSE MUST BE MISSING IN YOUR BIBLE.
John 5:26 For as the Father hath *life in himself*; so hath he given to the Son to ***have life in himself***;
BTW: HE ALSO CREATED ALL LIFE IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH.(QUOTE).
I only have a limited time and I see nothing added by directly responding to your other points. I both quoted and referenced passages in Scripture to let you know where I am
coming from.[UNQUOTE].I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM.
AS I SAY YOUR STUMBLING BLOCK IS THE APPEARING OF JESUS IN THE FLESH,AND THINKING THAT HE MUST BE FLESH. NOT KNOWING THAT THE SPIRIT CAN APPEAR AS FLESH,AND DISAPPEAR.
IF SATAN IS FLESH,THAN SOME MUST HAVE SEEN HIM
DURING THE 4000YRS. AND ALSO THE FALLEN ANGELS.wakeup.
Hi:
This might help to give understanding:
Quote International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia Word:
wurd: The commonest term in the Old Testament for “word” is dabhar (also “matter” “thing”); in the New Testament logos (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); but also frequently rhema. Rhema is a “word” in itself considered; logos is a spoken word, with reference generally to that which is in the speaker's mind
In Hebrew the equivalent of Logos is Dabar.
Quote
Part of Speechmasculine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From דָּבַר (H1696)
Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 399a
Outline of Biblical Usage
I.
speech, word, speaking, thing
A.
speechB.
saying, utteranceC.
word, wordsD.
business, occupation, acts, matter, case, something, manner (by extension)Love in Christ,
MartyWakeup,
Quote THERE ARE NO SCRIPTURE EITHER THAT SAYS THE DEAD
WILL BE RAISED IN THE FLESH.
SO WE NEED TO USE DISCERNMENT.NEED TO KNOW HOW TO DECERN SCRIPTURES.It is assumed by certain Scriptures and not explicitly written.
Yes, a man has to use the discernment given by the Spirit to know Spiritual things.
Quote Quote
Acts 1:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 to whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:THE WORD *SHOWED* TELLS US THAT HE CAN ALSO *NOT* SHOW HIMSELF. BE INVISIBLE.
No, It tells us that he could have instead chosen not to show himself alive after his passion.
Quote ARE ANGELS NOT SPIRIT? HAVE YOU AVER SEEN
FALLEN ANGELS IN THE FLESH? HAVE YOU, OR ANYONE EVER SEEN SATAN IN THE FLESH?People have treated angels unknowingly so I would not know unless I was informed or the angel(s) chose to tip there hand(s).
God reveals what he chooses to me and hides what he chooses from me. There could be a legion of angels in a field and I would not see a one.
Angels have miraculous powers but that does not make them spirits.
You are supporting the idea that spirits can be both touched and eat without considering the ramifications to Jesus' case that laid out to his students to prove he was not a spirit.
Quote WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME HERE?
YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT WE ARE ALL FLESH,UNTILL
THE CHANGE. FROM FLESH TO SPIRIT.You cannot save flesh by changing it to something else. For example claiming I saved all the sugar in the house by baking it into a huge birthday cake does not really any of the sugar.
Sugar is only saved if it remains sugar and flesh is only saved if it remains flesh.
Quote THIS VERSE MUST BE MISSING IN YOUR BIBLE.
John 5:26 For as the Father hath *life in himself*; so hath he given to the Son to ***have life in himself***;
BTW: HE ALSO CREATED ALL LIFE IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH.I have read it and it does not say Jesus is a life giving spirit. It states both Jesus and God have life in themselves. It sounds like it has more to do with this passage.
Romans 8:2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Quote I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM.
AS I SAY YOUR STUMBLING BLOCK IS THE APPEARING OF JESUS IN THE FLESH,AND THINKING THAT HE MUST BE FLESH. NOT KNOWING THAT THE SPIRIT CAN APPEAR AS FLESH,AND DISAPPEAR.
IF SATAN IS FLESH,THAN SOME MUST HAVE SEEN HIM
DURING THE 4000YRS. AND ALSO THE FALLEN ANGELS.I have heard people claim that a spirit can appear as flesh but I have never found it written.
I have my doubts angel flesh is like the even the flesh of man before the fall as they are created of heaven and we of earth.
Jesus and those that rose with him on that day and others are another matter as their original bodies were made of earth.
Jesus said he was flesh and bone and he made the argument that that meant he was not a spirit. Your words are in conflict with his.
943676,
Quote Rhema is a “word” in itself considered Interesting use of English but rather cryptic in its meaning.
The word in itself thought of
The word in itself judged.
The word in itself respected.None of them really sound right.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 04 2013,05:32) 943676, Quote Rhema is a “word” in itself considered Interesting use of English but rather cryptic in its meaning.
The word in itself thought of
The word in itself judged.
The word in itself respected.None of them really sound right.
Hi Kerwin:I am not sure that we need to get into a discussion relative to Rehma in this thread.
We can search to see if there is another thread relative to this subject or start one, if you wish.
I was trying to emphasize the definition of the “Word” as used in John 1 in Greek and Hebrew.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Oct. 04 2013,03:36) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 04 2013,05:32) 943676, Quote Rhema is a “word” in itself considered Interesting use of English but rather cryptic in its meaning.
The word in itself thought of
The word in itself judged.
The word in itself respected.None of them really sound right.
Hi Kerwin:I am not sure that we need to get into a discussion relative to Rehma in this thread.
We can search to see if there is another thread relative to this subject or start one, if you wish.
I was trying to emphasize the definition of the “Word” in Greek and Hebrew.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,I am interesting but your source did not help me at all by using words in I cannot yet understand.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,18:02) Either this creature that you believe in was turned into flesh or he came in the flesh not both. Make up your mind.
Kerwin, if God chose to cause Michael the archangel to be conceived in the womb of a human woman tomorrow, could we later say about Michael:1. He was turned into flesh? YES or NO?
2. He became flesh? YES or NO?
3. He came in the flesh? YES or NO?
4. He came in the likeness of sinful flesh? YES or NO?
5. He partook in flesh? YES or NO?
6. He was made in the likeness of a human being? YES or NO?
7. He was transformed into flesh? YES or NO?
8. He was changed into a human being? YES or NO?
9. He had two different “beginnings”? YES or NO?
The only HONEST answer to all 9 questions is “YES”. So there is no contradiction in me believing that Jesus both “came in” and was “turned into” flesh.Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,18:02) Another is you claim sin entered the word through Adam and death through sin while you also state death was already in the world.
Did I say death was already in the world? Where and when did I say that?Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,18:02) And you again claim the body could return to the dust it came from before God cursed it to return to the dust it came from.
Not sure what you're talking about here. Have we even discussed this before? Are you saying that all things that die and return to the dust are cursed by God?Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,18:02) You also claim spirits can eat and be touched while claiming Jesus gave sound tests to prove he was not a spirit.
Jesus never gave a “test”, Kerwin. He simply said that spirits don't have FLESH AND BONE, like he had at that time. There was no “test” about eating or touching. That is in your mind.Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,18:02) In addition you claim Jesus was Lord of all things in heaven and earth before he was made Lord of all things in heaven and earth.
I don't remember this discussion either. I don't know for sure that Jesus is ever called “the Lord of all things in heaven and earth”. I believe Jehovah is the only one who holds that title.Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,18:02) You claim Jesus is an angels that will rule the world to come and that angels will not rule the world to come.
Now, take the word “angel” in all the verses you are referring to, and change it to “messenger”. Let me know how you read it then.Also remember that God originally subjected all things on earth to mankind……. even though He still reigned supreme over heaven and earth, and sent angels on occasion to kick mankind's butt. So even though the world was technically subjected to man, and not to angels, mankind still remained less powerful than, and subject to, God and His spirit sons.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,18:02) You claim Jesus was both conceived in his mother's womb and that he was conceived before the heaven and earth began.
See my answer to question #1 above. Still no contradiction. Unless you believe we can't be BORN a SECOND time.Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,18:02) You claim Jesus had his inheritance before the world began and received it later.
Once more, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. What “inheritance” did Jesus receive before emptying himself and being made in the likeness of a human being? I know of none. He had glory alongside his God before the world began….. but I've never seen that glory as an “inheritance” Jesus received. But if YOU see it that way, then he did indeed have this glory/inheritance both before the world began, and again after he ascended to where he was before.Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,18:02) You seem not to look at what you are saying and how connect to other things you claim to believe.
You seem to be doing a poor job of showing me where my doctrine contradicts itself.Why not save this entire list in your word program, and let's go through each claim one at a time. Because if I truly am contradicting myself, then something's wrong with my doctrine, and I'll need to do some adjusting. But so far, I haven't seen any contradiction.
So, start with just the first point first, and show me how the phrases “turned into flesh” and “came in the flesh” cannot both be said about a spirit being who was made in the likeness of human beings.
Once we've got actual CLOSURE on that first point, you can bring up your next one. My new thing is getting CLOSURE on these arguments, so I don't have to have the same exact discussion with the same exact person over and over and over.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,18:58) Mike, Quote I've never made any such claim. You believe Adam was created as an immortal being, consisting of something called “spiritual flesh”. All I've done is tell you that if scripture is silent about it, so should you be. I see, you believe a body that does not die is mortal. Try something else as that does not wash.
I'm sorry, Kerwin. Do you know of a scripture that says Adam would have NEVER died if he didn't eat of the fruit?I have said many times to you that I believe Adam and Eve were in a position to live INDEFINITELY before they ate of the fruit. And INDEFINITELY could be forever, but doesn't necessarily have to mean forever.
Also, consider this, from the Book of Enoch:
Chapter 15
3You being spiritual, holy, and possessing a life which is eternal, have polluted yourselves with women; have begotten in carnal blood; have lusted in the blood of men; and have done as those who are flesh and blood do.4These however die and perish.
5Therefore have I given to them wives, that they might cohabit with them; that sons might be born of them; and that this might be transacted upon earth.
6But you from the beginning were made spiritual, possessing a life which is eternal, and not subject to death for ever.
7Therefore I made not wives for you, because, being spiritual, your dwelling is in heaven.
Do you notice how men perish, and therefore God made wives for them, so they could reproduce? And how angels were from the beginning possessing a life which is eternal?
Can you see the CLEAR contrast between the angels, who WERE made eternal, and mankind, who perishes? Can you see that the REASON God gave man wives is BECAUSE they perish?
So, I won't take this account of Enoch to the extreme, because I know it is not cannon. But neither can you just ASSUME that Adam would have lived eternally……… because no such thing is said in any scripture.
Neither is there any such thing as “spiritual flesh” mentioned in any scripture. Kerwin, you have concocted these things in your own mind, and now seem to INSIST that we either believe them, or suffer on as heretics. Is that really fair?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 01 2013,19:03) So according to you God did not mention such a thing to the Prophets and the Patriarchates who were expecting a human Messiah and not an angel one.
Proverbs 8, for one. Here is another:Micah 5:2 NIV
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times.”But just like you do with the 50+ NT scriptures we use to support the pre-existence of Jesus, you will no doubt have an alternate reading or interpretation of Micah 5:2, right?
And honestly, I've grown tired of these “alternate meaning” discussions with you, Kerwin. For over three years, I've been involved with your multiple, and vastly changing theories on the Word, and other things that have to do with the pre-existence of Jesus. I've watched you claim some of the most illogical things imaginable, just to avoid accepting a certain scripture the way it makes the most sense – according to the wording.
Heck, you're STILL not done with your thesis on “the Word”. You flip flop back and forth daily, chomping at the bit to find any little “loophole” you can.
But you know what? I don't care anymore what you believe. At first, I tried my best to bring you to the side of truth and God-given common sense. But after three years, what more is there left to say? You simply REFUSE to believe that Jesus came down from heaven to do the will He who sent him.
I, on the other hand, DO believe that Jesus not only came down from heaven, but also that many witnesses watched him ascend to WHERE HE WAS BEFORE. I DO believe Jesus was existing in the form of God BEFORE emptying himself and being made in the likeness of a human being. I DO believe Jesus is the one who bears the title “The Word of God”, and that he WAS with God in the beginning, but then became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.
I DO believe that all things, visible and invisible, in heaven and on earth, were made BY God and THROUGH His firstborn Son Jesus Christ – who is the firstborn of ALL creation, and the BEGINNING of the creation by God.
And I'm sorry, but I simply don't have the patience anymore to even CARE whether you also believe these things or not.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 02 2013,22:07) He will descend like he ascended, Acts 1:11, and he ascended in the flesh.
He ascended through the clouds. He will descend in the same way. He will come on the clouds.It has nothing to do with flesh. Your interpretation is flawed. Flesh cannot dwell in heaven.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 03 2013,03:00) SATAN IS ALSO FLESH? ONLY GOD IS SPIRIT?
What do you say, Kerwin? Are Satan and his angels flesh beings? Were the demons who possessed human beings flesh beings themselves? They were called “spirits” after all, right?Well, I guess I was wrong about the thread being locked at 1000 pages.
I was going on what t8 said at the end of the first “Trinity” thread: This discussion has been closed due to it reaching 1000 pages.
Big discussions are slow to load and for that reason, they continue in a new discussion identified as (Part2) etc.
kerwin,
can you anwwer me straight to the point? i dont need stories ok?
question
who is the Word in rev 19.13?Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 04 2013,05:22) Wakeup, Quote THERE ARE NO SCRIPTURE EITHER THAT SAYS THE DEAD
WILL BE RAISED IN THE FLESH.
SO WE NEED TO USE DISCERNMENT.NEED TO KNOW HOW TO DECERN SCRIPTURES.It is assumed by certain Scriptures and not explicitly written.
Yes, a man has to use the discernment given by the Spirit to know Spiritual things.
Quote Quote
Acts 1:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 to whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:THE WORD *SHOWED* TELLS US THAT HE CAN ALSO *NOT* SHOW HIMSELF. BE INVISIBLE.
No, It tells us that he could have instead chosen not to show himself alive after his passion.
Quote ARE ANGELS NOT SPIRIT? HAVE YOU AVER SEEN
FALLEN ANGELS IN THE FLESH? HAVE YOU, OR ANYONE EVER SEEN SATAN IN THE FLESH?People have treated angels unknowingly so I would not know unless I was informed or the angel(s) chose to tip there hand(s).
God reveals what he chooses to me and hides what he chooses from me. There could be a legion of angels in a field and I would not see a one.
Angels have miraculous powers but that does not make them spirits.
You are supporting the idea that spirits can be both touched and eat without considering the ramifications to Jesus' case that laid out to his students to prove he was not a spirit.
Quote WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME HERE?
YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT WE ARE ALL FLESH,UNTILL
THE CHANGE. FROM FLESH TO SPIRIT.You cannot save flesh by changing it to something else. For example claiming I saved all the sugar in the house by baking it into a huge birthday cake does not really any of the sugar.
Sugar is only saved if it remains sugar and flesh is only saved if it remains flesh.
Quote THIS VERSE MUST BE MISSING IN YOUR BIBLE.
John 5:26 For as the Father hath *life in himself*; so hath he given to the Son to ***have life in himself***;
BTW: HE ALSO CREATED ALL LIFE IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH.I have read it and it does not say Jesus is a life giving spirit. It states both Jesus and God have life in themselves. It sounds like it has more to do with this passage.
Romans 8:2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Quote I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM.
AS I SAY YOUR STUMBLING BLOCK IS THE APPEARING OF JESUS IN THE FLESH,AND THINKING THAT HE MUST BE FLESH. NOT KNOWING THAT THE SPIRIT CAN APPEAR AS FLESH,AND DISAPPEAR.
IF SATAN IS FLESH,THAN SOME MUST HAVE SEEN HIM
DURING THE 4000YRS. AND ALSO THE FALLEN ANGELS.I have heard people claim that a spirit can appear as flesh but I have never found it written.
I have my doubts angel flesh is like the even the flesh of man before the fall as they are created of heaven and we of earth.
Jesus and those that rose with him on that day and others are another matter as their original bodies were made of earth.
Jesus said he was flesh and bone and he made the argument that that meant he was not a spirit. Your words are in conflict with his.
As I have said.
Your stumbling block is the appearing of Jesus in the flesh.Jesus is definitely not sitting next to His father clothed in the flesh.You dont make any difference between life in heaven and life on earth.
The 24 elders and billions of angels are definitely not before the throne of God in the flesh.
You say that only evil spirits are spirit.
I say that they can also appear as flesh,but only by the
will of God.You must also know the difference between evil spirits and evil angels.
Evil spirits are the souls of them giants and their wives
and children that died in the flood.
Their souls are not accepted in heaven,so they just wonder around in the earth,and in the dry desert.There is the body;and there is the soul.
The body is material;the soul is spiritual.
The resurrection will be of the soul,not the flesh.
The flesh will just evaporate.There is the breath of life that gives life *to the flesh*.
And the soul is the essence of the persons life.
His works during his lifetime.
Either good works or bad works.Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; ***and their works do follow them***.
THEIR WORKS;GOOD WORKS OR BAD WORKS.wakeup.
Quote (jammin @ Oct. 04 2013,09:04) kerwin,
read rev 19.13
Jammin,I read it and understand it for by that time the word had been made flesh and Jesus had received the name that was above every other name for many years.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 04 2013,08:56) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 04 2013,03:36) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 04 2013,05:32) 943676, Quote Rhema is a “word” in itself considered Interesting use of English but rather cryptic in its meaning.
The word in itself thought of
The word in itself judged.
The word in itself respected.None of them really sound right.
Hi Kerwin:I am not sure that we need to get into a discussion relative to Rehma in this thread.
We can search to see if there is another thread relative to this subject or start one, if you wish.
I was trying to emphasize the definition of the “Word” in Greek and Hebrew.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,I am interesting but your source did not help me at all by using words in I cannot yet understand.
Hi Kerwin:The Greek word translated “Word” in John 1 is “Logos” and the Hebrew equivalent is “Dabar” not Rehma, and so, what I wanted to show is the definition of both of these words, and they do not mean a pre-existent Jesus.
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty,
Your point is a distraction.
Consider that the spokesman for the King of Abyssinia was called Kal Hatze – which means “the word of the king”.
This doesn't mean that the word “word” all of a sudden starts meaning “spokesman for a king”. The word “word” still continued to mean “spoken words”, or whatever.
So the claim is not that the word “logos” MEANS “pre-existent Christ”. It still means “word”. But as God's main spokesman, Christ has the TITLE “the Word of God”.
And that SPOKESMAN pre-existed his time on earth.
Your claim is the equivalent of saying Kal Hatze could not be “the word of the king” because “word” means “word” – and not “spokesman for the king”.
It is a non-point.
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