JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

Participant

Quote (carmel @ Sep. 23 2013,00:07)

Wakeup,Sep. wrote:

[/quote]

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The last man Adam was made a *QUICKENING SPIRIT*

Wakeup,

a quickening spirit means: A LIFE GIVING SPIRIT!

THAT MEANS THAT JESUS FLESH BODY IS NOT LIKE OURS A DEAD SUBSTANCE BUT ALIVE SINCE HIS ORIGIN IS FROM THE ETERNAL FATHER, EVEN IF AFTER HE DIED HIS DEATH!

HE CONFIRMED THIS FIRST WHEN HE SAID:

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself, so he hath given THE SON ALSO TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF:

SO TO CLARIFY, IT MEANS THAT AS THE FATHER, SINCE HE IS A SPIRIT HAS LIFE IN HIMSELF,

THE SON ALTHOUGH HE IS A FLESH BODY, HAS ALSO LIFE IN HIMSELF, SO HIS FLESH BODY CAN NEVER REALLY DIE LIKE OURS! BUT WOULD MAINTAIN ITS LIFE THROUGH DEATH ITSELF!

HE CONFIRMED THIS WHEN HE SAID :

DESTROY THIS TEMPLE, REFERRING TO HIS FLESH BODY, AND I WILL RAISE IT UP IN THREE DAYS

HE DIDN'T SAY MY FATHER RAISE IT UP BUT I TO MAKE US AWARE THAT HIS FLESH BODY HAS LIFE IN ITSELF, AND TRANSFORMED ITSELF INTO A SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY!

NOW Explain:

Luke 24:38 And he said to them: Why are you troubled, and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 SEE MY HANS AND FEET, THAT IT IS I MYSELF; HANDLE, AND SEE: FOR A SPIRIT HAS NO FLESH AND BONES

SO JESUS HAS NO BLOOD NOW, BUT FLESH AND BONES!

JESUS POSSESS BOTH FLESH AND SPIRIT ATTRIBUTES AS ONE ENTITY! AND HE CAN MANIFEST HIMSELF IN ANY WAY HE WANTS!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

Carmel.

There is the **terrestrial** and the **celestial** body.
Quickening spirit; meaning a spirit is quick/fast.
We will be like christ; exactly.
He is our holy brother.

You have no evidence that angels are of different kinds of flesh; This doctrine is someting that came out of the pit.

Regarding Jesus appearing in the flesh.
He materialised himself to show/proof to his brethren that he *IS* truly Jesus crucified. For they can not feel nor see a spirit body.

Dont let this put you off track. You said it yourself; he can
manifest himself into anything he likes.God can even make the stones glorify him.

Jesus did not raise himself from the dead,but his *REDEEMER* did. If he did raise himself: that would be telling us that he did not really die. The sriptures are clear: Jesus *DIED* for our sins. Let no one tell you otherwise.

(THUS SAID THE *KING OF IS REAL*;AND *HIS REDEEMER* THE LORD OF HOST.IS.44:6).

I will see what post of yours I have missed.

wakeup.

September 22, 2013 at 11:45 pm#358449

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 23 2013,02:01)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,02:52)

You told Carmel that there is no spiritual flesh in Scripture and yet Scripture speaks of a natural body and a spiritual body. That is to say a natural flesh and a spiritual flesh.

Kerwin,

Listen to Wakeup. There is no such thing as “spiritual flesh” mentioned in ANY scripture.

There are flesh bodies, and spirit bodies.

Mike,

There is no spirit body mentioned in any passage of Scripture. When Scripture states body in the context of a living creature they are always talking about a flesh body.

I cannot even say whether angels are an exception but I do know spirits cannot eat or be touched while angels can be touched and eat.

The human body was not destined to return to the ground until God pronounced that judgement on them, just as it is written:

Genesis 3:19
King James Version (KJV)

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Before this time Adam's flesh was Spiritual and did not return to earth and after this time it became natural and returned to the earth.

September 23, 2013 at 12:02 am#358452

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 22 2013,21:29)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,14:52)

Wakeup,

You told Carmel that there is no spiritual flesh in Scripture and yet Scripture speaks of a natural body and a spiritual body. That is to say a natural flesh and a spiritual flesh. Don't you believe all flesh is not the same and that:

That some man will say, How was Jesus raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that flesh that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: but God giveth it a flesh as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own flesh.

All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

There is no spirit body in Scripture, it is a teaching of men.

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You told Carmel that there is no spiritual flesh in Scripture and yet Scripture speaks of a natural body and a spiritual body. That is to say a natural flesh and a spiritual flesh.

that is stretching the scriptures to the extreme ,it does not say that or mean that at all

I am not the one that changes the meaning of body to mean a non-flesh body when in reference to a living creature. I am the one that goes by Scripture and believes Jesus' natural body was buried and rose a Spiritual body, the pioneer of the resurrection.

September 23, 2013 at 12:12 am#358454

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,17:45)

Mike,

There is no spirit body mentioned in any passage of Scripture. When Scripture states body in the context of a living creature they are always talking about a flesh body.

Angels have bodies, Kerwin. They have wings, and some of them have multiple faces. They have hands and feet. And they dwell in heaven, which means they are NOT made of flesh.

Spiritual bodies ARE mentioned in scriptures. And one of the definitions of “spiritual” is “of things belonging to a spirit”. So a “spiritual body” is a body that belongs to a spirit being……. ie: a spirit body.

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,17:45)

I cannot even say whether angels are an exception but I do know spirits cannot eat or be touched while angels can be touched and eat.

Angels are ministering SPIRITS, Kerwin. Get it? Angels are SPIRITS/SPIRIT BEINGS.

There is no scripture in the Bible that says spirit beings cannot be touched or eat. These are things you've made up in your own mind.

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,17:45)

Before this time Adam's flesh was Spiritual and did not return to earth………

Another thing you've made up in your own head.

These kinds of made up things don't deserve any more attention from me, Kerwin. I just popped in to support Wakeup.

September 23, 2013 at 12:32 am#358458

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 23 2013,02:04)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,00:41)

In English Jesus took on the form of a servant and God made him in the form of a human.

In English, Jesus first EMPTIED HIMSELF…………. and then was made in the form of a human.

One cannot EMPTY HIMSELF before he exists. Therefore, Jesus existed BEFORE he was made in the form of a human.

Mike,

For that to be clear there would need to be a then in the statement. As it is “made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men” all appear to have happened at approximately the same time. Nothing indicating time is mentioned except to the extent that that “made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant” is an action he took instead of seeing himself as equal to God. The hint it may be a result of him not seeing himself as equal with God is that according to the KJV being made in the likeness of man is listed with those actions even though it is not an action he took.

September 23, 2013 at 12:47 am#358460

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 23 2013,06:12)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,17:45)

Mike,

There is no spirit body mentioned in any passage of Scripture. When Scripture states body in the context of a living creature they are always talking about a flesh body.

Angels have bodies, Kerwin. They have wings, and some of them have multiple faces. They have hands and feet. And they dwell in heaven, which means they are NOT made of flesh.

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,17:45)

I cannot even say whether angels are an exception but I do know spirits cannot eat or be touched while angels can be touched and eat.

Angels are ministering SPIRITS, Kerwin. Get it? Angels are SPIRITS/SPIRIT BEINGS.

There is no scripture in the Bible that says spirit beings cannot be touched or eat. These are things you've made up in your own mind.

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,17:45)

Before this time Adam's flesh was Spiritual and did not return to earth………

Another thing you've made up in your own head.

These kinds of made up things don't deserve any more attention from me, Kerwin. I just popped in to support Wakeup.

Mike,

None of what you say contradicts the fact Jesus proposed two tests to demonstrate he was not a spirit. The first was touching and the second was eating.

The angels that visited Lot did both things demonstrating they are not spirit beings.

So do you believe Jesus' tests revealed he was not a spirit?

There are two ways of interpretation.
1) Touching reveals that the one being touched is flesh and bone.
2) Touching reveal that the one being touched is not a spirit.

I go with the second as I can touch other things than flesh and bone.

September 23, 2013 at 1:11 am#358463

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 22 2013,15:50)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,19:52)

Wakeup,

All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

There is no spirit body in Scripture, it is a teaching of men.

Kerwin.

If you are speaking of physical flesh,yes there are many differnt kinds of flesh.
One of them is human flesh.
But all spirit bodies are one; there is no flesh/spirit body.

The last man Adam was made a *QUICKENING SPIRIT*

And we will be like him; a quickening spirit.
The flesh; any flesh perishes.
You can not name any angel,
that has different flesh, but spirit.

wakeup.

Wakeup,

This is what is written:

1 Corinthians 15:38-40
King James Version (KJV)

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

There is no mention of a spirit body and the only mention of a body of a living creature is flesh. The rest are physical bodies of non living objects.

The last Adam is the Spiritual Adam, while the first Adam is the natural Adam. Both are Adam.

September 23, 2013 at 2:05 am#358468

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 23 2013,06:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 22 2013,21:29)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,14:52)

Wakeup,

All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

There is no spirit body in Scripture, it is a teaching of men.

Quote

You told Carmel that there is no spiritual flesh in Scripture and yet Scripture speaks of a natural body and a spiritual body. That is to say a natural flesh and a spiritual flesh.

that is stretching the scriptures to the extreme ,it does not say that or mean that at all

well were do you pick up SPIRITUAL FLESH

NEWS TO ME

September 23, 2013 at 2:50 am#358471

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 23 2013,08:05)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 23 2013,06:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 22 2013,21:29)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,14:52)

Wakeup,

All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

There is no spirit body in Scripture, it is a teaching of men.

Quote

You told Carmel that there is no spiritual flesh in Scripture and yet Scripture speaks of a natural body and a spiritual body. That is to say a natural flesh and a spiritual flesh.

that is stretching the scriptures to the extreme ,it does not say that or mean that at all

well were do you pick up SPIRITUAL FLESH

NEWS TO ME

None of Paul's examples are spirit bodies while his very first example is flesh bodies and he makes the statement “all flesh is not the same”. In the examples the body of a living creature is a flesh body. Since the Spiritual body is the body of a living creature then by Paul's words in his examples it is a flesh body. It is spirit body that is not in Scripture.

September 23, 2013 at 3:07 am#358472

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 23 2013,08:50)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 23 2013,08:05)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 23 2013,06:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 22 2013,21:29)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,14:52)

Wakeup,

All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

There is no spirit body in Scripture, it is a teaching of men.

Quote

You told Carmel that there is no spiritual flesh in Scripture and yet Scripture speaks of a natural body and a spiritual body. That is to say a natural flesh and a spiritual flesh.

that is stretching the scriptures to the extreme ,it does not say that or mean that at all

well were do you pick up SPIRITUAL FLESH

NEWS TO ME

1Co 15:35 But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
1Co 15:36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
1Co 15:37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
1Co 15:38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.
1Co 15:40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
1Co 15:41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
1Co 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
1Co 15:43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

his the sun also flesh

your logic is in comparison ridicule ,and not covered in Paul description ,

so we can add those scriptures to those i have quoted previously ,scriptures you do not believe without your personal interpretation

September 23, 2013 at 8:27 am#358476

Participant

Quote

your logic is in comparison ridicule ,and not covered in Paul description ,

My reasoning is based on examining Paul's words about bodies and see what that tells us.

Quote

is[edit] the sun also flesh

The Sun is a non-living object. I am pointing out

1) Paul does not mention a spirit body when he gives his example
2) The living bodies Paul does mention are all flesh.

There is no evidence of a spirit body in those words of his. Instead the evidence is that at least some living bodies are flesh bodies.

Quote

1Co 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;

It is the flesh body that is sown perishable, just as was done with Jesus. It is the same body that is raised imperishable, as also was the case with Jesus. This passage only mentions one body that changes while 1 Corinthians 15:35 seems to mention two. The only change mentioned is from perishable to imperishable. There is no mention of a change from flesh content to spirit content.

September 23, 2013 at 8:49 am#358477

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2013,12:23)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,00:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2013,04:38)

But LITERALLY, nobody's words are really living entities, right?

Mike,

Correct……….

So if even God's words aren't LITERALLY living entities, who is the Word of God that became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son?

Because that doesn't seem “poetic” to me. It seems as if a literal person dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.

Mike,

It is known to be poetic and the term light, if nothing else, herald's that.

Even one of those that hold that Jesus is the Logos holds that.

Quote

In his recent treatment of the Johannine writings, R. Alan Culpepper comments that “By any standard the prologue to the Gospel of John is one of the most profound passages in the Bible. As simple as its language and phrases are, its description of Jesus as the Logos has exerted a lasting influence on Christian theology.” He concludes:

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All the prologues…serve to educate or prepare the reader for the rest of the Gospel. Important themes are signalled and the identity of Jesus is established at the very outset by means of Christological titles, divine portents or the manner of Jesus birth…All the prologues therefore are Christological affirmations, but John is the only Gospel to speak of Jesus’ pre-existence as the Logos and the only Gospel to include a poetic prologue.

Have you considered that you are used to the words of Trinitarians and those who have not yet won completely free of the influence of that erroneous teaching?

September 23, 2013 at 8:49 am#358478

Participant

Kerwin.

Still waiting for your evidence,
of angels of different flesh.

Wakeup.

September 23, 2013 at 8:59 am#358480

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 22 2013,14:51)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 22 2013,07:47)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 22 2013,10:37)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 22 2013,04:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 22 2013,01:13)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 21 2013,17:35)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 21 2013,16:48)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 21 2013,10:42)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 21 2013,15:12)

THE WORD = JESUS CHRIST =THE SON OF GOD ALWAYS WAS SINS HIS CREATION ,

GOD CREATED ALL THINGS THROUGH HIS SON ,THE SON WAS CREATED FROM THE DIVINE NATURE OF HIS FATHER ;ALL OTHER THINGS WERE CREATED FROM THE NATURE OF THE SON ,

THIS IS WHY THE SON WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT COULD SAVE CREATION AND MEN ;BECAUSE HE WAS THE BEGINNING OF THAT CREATION BY GOD ,AND THAT IS WHAT HE DID ,

IT IS OBVIOUS THAT BEING IN THE NATURE OF GOD THEY ARE BOTH SPIRIT BEINGS ;BUT THEIR OWN WORDS ARE NOT THEM BUT OF THEM ,AND YES WHEN THEY TALK THEY ARE MEANINGFUL WORDS ,THEY SAY

Terra.

You are close,but not on target.

**QUOTE:**
THE WORD = JESUS CHRIST =THE SON OF GOD ALWAYS WAS SINS HIS CREATION ,
GOD CREATED ALL THINGS THROUGH HIS SON ,THE SON WAS CREATED FROM THE DIVINE NATURE OF HIS FATHER ;ALL OTHER THINGS WERE CREATED FROM THE NATURE OF THE SON ,**UNQUOTE:**

1.In the beginning was the Word; not Jesus/he was not born
yet.
2.The Word was not created;but brought forth,from inside of
God out.
3.Jesus was born flesh/created.
4.The spirit Jesus went back into the bosom of his Father.
5.Is sitting next to his Father.

John saw God sitting on his throne;then he saw the Lamb
in the mids of the same throne,because they are one.
**Again the Word was with God**.

wakeup.

You playing with words ,and you thinking that I am as dum as a plank ,
The word = Jesus Christ ,you just do not understand the scriptures Col:1:15-21

You try to teach what you do not understand ,but wors you tell me that I do not know the scriptures,insulting

Terra.

Be honest,and be a man.

John1.
—-And the word was with God.
Tell me: was that Jesus with God?

wakeup.

Yes ;THE WORD ” IN HEAVEN HIS CHRIST ;THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD ;

THAT CAME TO DOWN FROM THE FATHER TO SAVE MEN ,THIS IS TOTALLY IN HARMONY WITH ALL THE SCRIPTURES EVEN REVELATION ,

Terra.

Concentrate:

In the BEGINNING was the word.(NOT YET JESUS).
And the Word(NOT YET JESUS) was *with* God.

NOT Jesus: because the *WORD* was not yet made flesh.
After the WORD was made flesh;his name is called Jesus.
After Jesus went back to heaven; his name is called
the *Word of God* once more.

wakeup.

YOU SURE YOU WANT TO SAY SOME THING

Terra.

Is there a beam lodged in your eyes?

wakeup.

no ,sliver in the eye ;but i can not see what you say ;because i told you who they are

Terra.

There a reason why you can not see,
the simple things.

wakeup.

September 23, 2013 at 10:27 am#358482

Participant

useless answer

September 23, 2013 at 10:41 am#358484

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 23 2013,14:27)

Quote

your logic is in comparison ridicule ,and not covered in Paul description ,

My reasoning is based on examining Paul's words about bodies and see what that tells us.

Quote

is[edit] the sun also flesh

The Sun is a non-living object. I am pointing out

1) Paul does not mention a spirit body when he gives his example
2) The living bodies Paul does mention are all flesh.

There is no evidence of a spirit body in those words of his. Instead the evidence is that at least some living bodies are flesh bodies.

Quote

1Co 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;

but spiritual flesh comes from your brain ,not from Paul,and

you bring it because of your false believe ,because you do not believe what Paul is teaching ,

what Paul says “different flesh ” was regarding fish,birds,mammals' and plants

you are living out of the scriptures
i am still waiting for answers to my quotes

September 23, 2013 at 10:45 am#358485

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 23 2013,08:50)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 23 2013,08:05)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 23 2013,06:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 22 2013,21:29)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 22 2013,14:52)

Wakeup,

All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

There is no spirit body in Scripture, it is a teaching of men.

Quote

You told Carmel that there is no spiritual flesh in Scripture and yet Scripture speaks of a natural body and a spiritual body. That is to say a natural flesh and a spiritual flesh.

that is stretching the scriptures to the extreme ,it does not say that or mean that at all

well were do you pick up SPIRITUAL FLESH

NEWS TO ME

Quote

It is spirit body that is not in Scripture.

1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

so you don't mind lying in plain day light

September 23, 2013 at 2:52 pm#358491