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Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 16 2013,07:10) Before the WORD was made flesh; all the angels worshipped *GOD* and his command(HIS WORD). When the Word was made flesh(a person).(human).
All the angels were to worship him,
for he is the anointed,and the creator of all that is
created.
He was resurrected,and made so much better than the angels.(The man was made better than the angels).Hebrews 1:9 **Thou hast loved righteousness**, and hated iniquity; therefore *God, even thy God*, hath *anointed thee* with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Hebrews 1:10 ****And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth****; and the heavens are the works of thine hands***.
***
Is there a God beside me? No there is none.
Beside me there is no saviour. Confusing?
Not so,for Gods Word is within God.John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that ***I CAME OUT FROM GOD***. (beamed out).
John 16:28 ***I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER***, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.(GODS WORD CAME OUT FROM INSIDE GOD OUTWARD).
The Word can appear as an angels if GOD wanted to.
Which he did appear to Abraham,as an angel.wakeup.
PLEASE REVIEW YOUR SCRIPTURES ;BAD COMBINATION ;
Mike,
Quote Kerwin, I am not asking about compound words like “firstborn”. I am asking you to show a SCRIPTURAL example (or any example, really) where the word “born” (BY ITSELF) does NOT refer to the beginning of someone or something. Born does not mean the start of a child, conceived does.
Born may be a synonym of conceived in some cases.
If you are not speaking of either first born or firstborn then I believe those are the only two general meaning in Scripture. I just browsed them so I can be wrong.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 16 2013,09:36) Mike, Quote Kerwin, I am not asking about compound words like “firstborn”. I am asking you to show a SCRIPTURAL example (or any example, really) where the word “born” (BY ITSELF) does NOT refer to the beginning of someone or something. Born does not mean the start of a child, conceived does.
Born may be a synonym of conceived in some cases.
If you are not speaking of either first born or firstborn then I believe those are the only two general meaning in Scripture. I just browsed them so I can be wrong.
What about the scripture that says ;Can a nation be born in one day
Mike,
Quote Well, I must admit you are getting closer than any of the other non-preexisters on this site. 
You have already opined that Phil 2:6-8 could easily be teaching that a pre-existent Jesus emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being ( just like the passage actually, exactly, and clearly states.) And now, you say you aren't prepared to say “Jesus is NOT a preexistent soul”. You are making great strides, my friend.
But you didn't really address the fact that Elijah was CONCEIVED for a SECOND time in the womb of Elizabeth, did you?
You have two issues here: My intent is to point out that Philippians 2 hints at the preexistence of Christ if the elements are taken as chronological events. The should not be taken in such a way.
As for it being clear evidence, even you admit “took upon him the form of a servant” should not be taken literally; I disagree. Translators disagree on the translation of one part with some translating it “But made himself of no reputation” and others translating it ” but emptied Himself”. Even the NASB that agrees with what you like to quote makes the comment “I.e. laid aside His privileges”.
It is not a change in body but a change in privilege according to the NASB. The KJV on the other hand favors a change in reputation. I don't even as a change but rather that “took on the form of a servant” is a primary fruit of being in very form God.
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 16 2013,09:56) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 16 2013,09:36) Mike, Quote Kerwin, I am not asking about compound words like “firstborn”. I am asking you to show a SCRIPTURAL example (or any example, really) where the word “born” (BY ITSELF) does NOT refer to the beginning of someone or something. Born does not mean the start of a child, conceived does.
Born may be a synonym of conceived in some cases.
If you are not speaking of either first born or firstborn then I believe those are the only two general meaning in Scripture. I just browsed them so I can be wrong.
What about the scripture that says ;Can a nation be born in one day
T,I believe that use of born means revealed.
Mike,
Quote Well, I must admit you are getting closer than any of the other non-preexisters on this site. You have already opined that Phil 2:6-8 could easily be teaching that a pre-existent Jesus emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being ( just like the passage actually, exactly, and clearly states.) And now, you say you aren't prepared to say “Jesus is NOT a preexistent soul”. You are making great strides, my friend.
But you didn't really address the fact that Elijah was CONCEIVED for a SECOND time in the womb of Elizabeth, did you?
The second issue is reincarnation and is is not a biblical teaching as Hebrews 9:27 contradicts that teaching.
Ignoring that fact: Reincarnation occurs when a old soul enters a new body that is conceived. That is not the same as a person's body transforming from one kind to another kind. Conceived is the start of the body.
If you want to change your position from a a preexistent being that transforms to a human being to a preexistent soul that comes in a new human body then by all means let me know and we can investigate that line of reasoning.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 16 2013,05:52) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 15 2013,16:23) It is only when Jesus is brought into the world that God instructed the angels to pay homage to him, Hebrews 1:6. They have continuously paid homage to the literal Word of God.
Actually, it is when Jesus is to be sent into the world for the SECOND TIME that the angels will pay homage to him. It is at that SECOND coming that all knees will bow to him.And in order to be sent into the world a SECOND TIME, it means that he must have been sent into the world a FIRST TIME, right?
As for your second sentence………. in which scripture can I read about angels paying homage to “the literal word of God”?
Mike,Where is it written that it is Jesus' second coming?
PS 87:5 But of Zion it shall be said, “This one and that one were born in her”;
And the Most High Himself will establish her.
PS 87:6 The LORD will count when He registers the peoples,
“This one was born there.” Selah.
PS 90:2 Before the mountains were born
Or You gave birth to the earth and the world,
Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.Isa 26:17 As a woman with child and about to give birth
writhes and cries out in her pain,
so were we in your presence, O LORD.
Isa 26:18 We were with child, we writhed in pain,
but we gave birth to wind.
We have not brought salvation to the earth;
we have not given birth to people of the world.Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 16 2013,10:11) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 16 2013,09:56) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 16 2013,09:36) Mike, Quote Kerwin, I am not asking about compound words like “firstborn”. I am asking you to show a SCRIPTURAL example (or any example, really) where the word “born” (BY ITSELF) does NOT refer to the beginning of someone or something. Born does not mean the start of a child, conceived does.
Born may be a synonym of conceived in some cases.
If you are not speaking of either first born or firstborn then I believe those are the only two general meaning in Scripture. I just browsed them so I can be wrong.
What about the scripture that says ;Can a nation be born in one day
T,I believe that use of born means revealed.
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father, gave, family, Father, nation, birth, bear, kind, produce, labor, kinds, bore, offspring, descendant, native, countrymen, conceived, race, descent, Child, stock, kindred, land, come, go, sons, brought, bring, descendants, children, himself, became, body, being, enter, present, fall, child, country, carry, arrived, delivered, pass, relatives, within, mind, border, attacked, lay, brings, bringing, cast, allotted, approach, womb, abandon, shake, lost, endure, pain, fail, parts, formed, accepted, tremble, wounded, anguish, deserted, divide, stomach, bare, arrive, attacks, bears, prosper, rot, belly, burst, shakes, arrives, associate, advanced, bearing, grieved, issue, arrival, collapse, dance, abdomen, overthrow, apply, casts, borne, inferior, allot, native-born, attain, defect, midwife, depth, danced, pregnancy, apportioned, calve, begot, [ALL]
hide content Related Greek/Hebrew:
gennao gennetos genos tikto // 'ezrach bow' beten chuwl yalad yillowd yaliyd mowledeth naphal
hide content In Dictionaries:
Born Again, First-born, First-born, Redemption of, First-born, Sanctification of the, Firstborn, Home-Born, Suborn
hide content In Illustration Topics:
Firstborn Stubborn
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Almost Wasn’t Born Born to Be Battered When Was Jesus Born? Leadership of Firstborns Stubbornness Born out of Understanding Reborn Spiritually Human Stubbornness Battles and Babies Born in 1809 born-again
(0.14 seconds)
(1.00)Job 5:7but people 1 are born 2 to trouble, as surely as the sparks 3 fly 4 upward. 5
(0.99)Joh 3:6What is born of the flesh is flesh, 1 and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(0.98)Job 1:2Seven 1 sons and three daughters were born to him. 2
(0.95)Gen 21:5(Now Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.) 1
(0.95)Pro 17:17A friend 1 loves at all times, and a relative 2 is born to help in adversity. 3
(0.91)2Sa 3:2Now sons were born to David in Hebron. His firstborn was Amnon, born to Ahinoam the Jezreelite.
WHERE YOU GET THAT MEANING
? REVEALED(1.00)Job 15:35
They conceive 1 trouble and bring forth evil; their belly 2 prepares deception.”
0.79)Jam 1:15
Then when desire conceives, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is full grown, it gives birth to death.
I STILL WAIT FOR YOUR COMMENT,ON MY QUOTE I HAVE MORE ON THIS YET
Quote Conceived is the start of the body. WELL HOW HIS THAT SO
WHAT WOULD BE THE WORD FOR THE BEGINNING OF “LIVE INSIDE A WOMEN WOMB WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A REGULAR BIRTH AND A SURROGATE MOTHER
?EVEN FROM THE BEGINNINGQuote (kerwin @ Sep. 15 2013,21:36) Mike, Quote (mikeboll @ 64) I am asking you to show a SCRIPTURAL example (or any example, really) where the word “born” (BY ITSELF) does NOT refer to the beginning of someone or something. Born does not mean the start of a child, conceived does.
Born may be a synonym of conceived in some cases.
If you are not speaking of either first born or firstborn then I believe those are the only two general meaning in Scripture. I just browsed them so I can be wrong.
Is that your way of saying that you are unable to find any example where “born” DOESN'T refer to the beginning of someone or something?Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 15 2013,22:01) Mike, Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Well, I must admit you are getting closer than any of the other non-preexisters on this site. You have already opined that Phil 2:6-8 could easily be teaching that a pre-existent Jesus emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being ( just like the passage actually, exactly, and clearly states.)My intent is to point out that Philippians 2 hints at the preexistence of Christ if the elements are taken as chronological events. They should not be taken in such a way.
The passage starts with Jesus existing in the form of God, and ends with him humbling himself to the point of death on a stake.Which came first? The existing? Or the death on a stake?
Here are the exact meanings of the Greek words, in the order Paul wrote them:
this be you minding in you which also in Christ Jesus who in form of God existing not snatching he considered the to be equal (things) to God but himself he emptied form of slave having taken in likeness of human beings having become and to fashion having been found as human being he made lowly himself having become obedient until death of death but of stake
Here's the chronological order I see:
1. Was existing in the form of God.
2. Didn't consider equality with God something to be snatched, or grasped.
3. Emptied himself.
4. Took on the form of a servant.
5. Was made in the likeness of a human being.
6. Once found in appearance as a human being, humbled himself.
7. Became obedient to death on a stake.
Aside from the fact that numbers 3, 4 and 5 are really one action that Jesus took, the whole thing is in chronological order.
But if you think that Paul, for some odd reason, wrote down these events out of order, please enlighten us about which number(s) is out of order, and why you think Paul would have written it out of order.
And can you think of any GOOD reason for someone (who DOESN'T have a personal doctrine to protect) to think these events aren't recorded chronologically? In other words, WHY do you claim “they should not be taken” in chronological order?
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 15 2013,22:24) The second issue is reincarnation and is is not a biblical teaching as Hebrews 9:27 contradicts that teaching.
Heb 9:27 is obviously a GENERAL statement, to which there are clear exceptions. Neither Enoch nor Elijah actually “died once”, but were taken to heaven while still alive. So that scripture doesn't help you in this case.Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 15 2013,22:24) Reincarnation occurs when a old soul enters a new body that is conceived. That is not the same as a person's body transforming from one kind to another kind. Conceived is the start of the body.
Kerwin, you are just saying things, without anything to back up what you say.But let's say that “conceived” IS “the start of the body”, like you claim. If that is the case, then Elijah was clearly CONCEIVED two different times. And that is SCRIPTURAL proof that a person who has already existed for some time in heaven can later be CONCEIVED in a human womb.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 15 2013,22:24) If you want to change your position from a a preexistent being that transforms to a human being to a preexistent soul that comes in a new human body then by all means let me know and we can investigate that line of reasoning.
Why would I “change my position”? Jesus WAS a pre-existent being who was later caused to be conceived in a woman's womb………… just like Elijah was a pre-existent being who was later caused to be conceived in a woman's womb.So until YOU can find a scripture that refutes my current understanding, I really have no need to change a position that aligns with every single scripture in the Bible, do I?
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 15 2013,22:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 16 2013,05:52) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 15 2013,16:23) It is only when Jesus is brought into the world that God instructed the angels to pay homage to him, Hebrews 1:6. They have continuously paid homage to the literal Word of God.
Actually, it is when Jesus is to be sent into the world for the SECOND TIME that the angels will pay homage to him. It is at that SECOND coming that all knees will bow to him.And in order to be sent into the world a SECOND TIME, it means that he must have been sent into the world a FIRST TIME, right?
As for your second sentence………. in which scripture can I read about angels paying homage to “the literal word of God”?
Mike,Where is it written that it is Jesus' second coming?
Hebrews 1:6
But when he again brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all the angels of God do obeisance to him!”Philippians 2
8 ………he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross!9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth…….1. No angel ever did obeisance to Jesus while he was on earth the first time.
2. It was AFTER he suffered death, and AFTER he was EXALTED by God, and AFTER he was given a new name that is above all other names, that he became worthy of all knees in heaven and on earth bowing before him.
So since angels didn't bow to him before, but we know that they will, it must refer to when God brings His firstborn into the world for the SECOND time.
Also, please list the scripture that teaches how the angels of God have done obeisance to the literal words that God has spoken. (This was one of your original claims. I asked you this before, but didn't get an answer.)
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 16 2013,11:43) Quote Conceived is the start of the body. WELL HOW HIS THAT SO
WHAT WOULD BE THE WORD FOR THE BEGINNING OF “LIVE INSIDE A WOMEN WOMB WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A REGULAR BIRTH AND A SURROGATE MOTHER
?EVEN FROM THE BEGINNING
T,The difference is that in the case of the surrogacy you are speaking of the child is conceive outside of the womb but in the case of a natural pregnancy the child is conceived in the womb. Scripture teaches us Jesus was conceived in his mothers womb.
Mike,
Scripture does not tell us allot about angel and how they related to Jesus during his time on earth but Jesus did say:
Matthew 26:53
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Even during his stay on this world he had to but ask God to have angels do his bidding.
As for the second coming angels are paying homage to him even now and will come with him in the clouds. They will not need to be told to pay homage to him at that time.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 17 2013,08:28) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 16 2013,11:43) Quote Conceived is the start of the body. WELL HOW HIS THAT SO
WHAT WOULD BE THE WORD FOR THE BEGINNING OF “LIVE INSIDE A WOMEN WOMB WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A REGULAR BIRTH AND A SURROGATE MOTHER
?EVEN FROM THE BEGINNING
T,The difference is that in the case of the surrogacy you are speaking of the child is conceive outside of the womb but in the case of a natural pregnancy the child is conceived in the womb. Scripture teaches us Jesus was conceived in his mothers womb.
KIS MARY AD A NORMAL PREGNANCY
IF YOU SAY YES;WERE IS HER MALE CONTRIBUTOR IF YOU SAY NO ,WELL THEN WHY ARE YOU MAKING THINGS UP JUST LIKE YOU KNOW ,AND THAT YOU WERE THERE
ALL YOUR SUPPOSITION ARE PURE SUPPOSITION ,BUT TO THE PUBLIC OF THOSE DAYS ALL WOULD HAVE SWEAR IT WAS JOSEPH CHILD IS IT
ALSO UNDERSTAND GOD KNOWS MORE ABOUT WOMEN THAN ANY WOMEN CAN EVER KNOW ;
BUT NOW LOOK FOR THE REAL REASONS THAT CHRIST BY NO MEANS COULD BE BORN OF THE FLESH ;FLESH THAT IS CURSED WITH SIN ; AND DEAD ,
MIKE EXPLAIN IT QUITE WELL
Mike,
Are angels under the authority of God's Word?
Do they obey its commands?
Isn't that paying homage?
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