JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2013,05:58)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 25 2013,12:32) The Word made the human body in the same way the device made the vessel. No Kerwin. The word was nothing but a word.  God is who made the human body. And the device is nothing more than a device.  The human who used the device is the one who made the vessel. Devices don't have minds and wills of their own, so that they can go and create vessels all by themselves when told to do so. Nor do the words that God speaks have minds and wills of their own, so that they can go and create human bodies all by themselves after being told to do so. You are applying magical abilities to devices and words – but devices and words don't really have those abilities. Can you understand that?

Mike,

John told Sam, “my hammer built this house”.

Sam replied, no the carpenter did.

John answered, No carpenter build this house without my hammer.

The hammer build the house. Whether a carpenter wielded it or other tools such as a saw, measuring tape, are not mentioned one way or another though I would say they are implied.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 29 2013,06:17)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 29 2013,06:05) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 28 2013,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 28 2013,06:58) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2013,06:32) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 26 2013,00:23) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2013,12:12) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 25 2013,08:10) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2013,07:22) Kerwin this is Chinese to me ,so give me some examples please poetic and regular T, Poetically though written as a riddle. He is the sound that is not a sound. He is embodied in different media, including that of sound.   He created the Sun and the Moon.  He gathered the waters in one place.  He created light and all its rules. Who is he? kERWIN Colossians 1:15 Click this icon to open a printer friendly page Context NET © 1 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn 2  over all creation, 3 NIV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. NASB © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. NLT © Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation. MSG © We look at this Son and see the God who cannot be seen. We look at this Son and see God's original purpose in everything created. BBE © Who is the image of the unseen God coming into existence before all living things; NRSV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; NKJV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. is this poetic or plain words spoken by paul to the congregation of Colosse T, Poetic. K Which of the statements Paul says makes an allusion to some thing that is hidden in Paul,s words If nothing then they are plain words,,right??? T, God speaks in parables without telling his audience in order to test their heart.  God used Jesus to speak to the woman at the well using a poetic form of speech and she did not understand him at first.  He also spoke to the Jews and even his disciples in a like manner. kERWIN you avoiding to answer my question so here it is again ; Which of the statements Paul says makes an allusion to some thing that is hidden in Paul,s words If nothing then they are plain words,,right??? please answer directly and honestly ; T, “first born of the dead” is a poetic form of speech.   “who hath delivered us from the power of darkness:, “partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light” You may have even have puzzled out the meaning of some of them.[/quote] Kerwin you answer the question again ;i was talking about this part ; NIV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

T,

What I used come from the same sentence and/or paragraph.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 28 2013,18:35)

Mike, John told Sam, “my hammer built this house”.

“My hammer built this house”!

Okay Kerwin,

Let me know when you return from the funny farm and want to be serious.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 28 2013,08:45)

jammin …….. Again you avoid the question , here it is again for you , point one, was John so stupid that if he wanted us to believe he was referring to Jesus he would not have written Jesus' name there instead of the word, word?

And again, since YOU avoided it the last time:

Did John write the name “Jesus” in Revelation 19:13?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 29 2013,06:44)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 28 2013,18:35) Mike, John told Sam, “my hammer built this house”.       “My hammer built this house”!   Okay Kerwin, Let me know when you return from the funny farm and want to be serious.

Mike,

So you have been owned and resort to insults.

All things that have been created have created by the Word of God.

Hebrews 11:3

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

What framed the “worlds” according to this passage?

[jammin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 29 2013,01:45)

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 27 2013,21:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 24 2013,03:04) Jammin…………..Was John so stupid , that if he wanted us to believe the WORD was JESUS , he couldn't just have written Jesus' name there? Why do you have to force the text to say what in fact it does not say, do you people know more then The Apostle John did, so you can freely just change the text to meet your dogmas. that is one of the reasons there is so much confusion in religion, people say all kind of things the scriptures are not saying. That is why we have so many different bible translations, Trinitarians and Preexistence preachers make their own translations of scripture to fit their false teachings. IMO Peace and love…………………………gene it is written in rev 19.13 Revelation 19:13 American Standard Version (ASV) 13 And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God. john knows that the Word in john 1.1 is Christ. rev 19.13 supports jn 1.1. jammin …….. Again you avoid the question , here it is again for you , point one, was John so stupid that if he wanted us to believe he was referring to Jesus he would not have written Jesus' name there instead of the word,  word? Point two, there is much debate concerning who wrote the Gospel of John, many scholars believe it was not John who even wrote the epistle of John, as I recall. Point three, why do you people have to change meanings of the written words used in the text to even meet your false dogmas anyway. Point four show us ONE SCRIPTURE ! where Jesus ever said He was a GOD of any kind . In fact Jesus said He had a GOD, Telling us he was going to his God and OUR GOD His FatherAnd OUR FATHER. It's ONLY false teachers who twist the truth of GOD, and force texts to say what in fact they do not say,  who TRY SO DESPERATELY to make, our BROTHER JESUS different then WE ARE. These false teacher deny the work of God “IN” Jesus Christ our LORD and MORE our BROTHER, in the house hold of GOD. Do you not think people who Even Preach Their Doctrines  of   SEPARATION   of Jesus' identity with us, are not under a curse? , THEY ARE, IMO Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

so you want the name of Christ in john 1.1?

let me post again the verse
John 1:1

Contemporary English Version (CEV)
The Word of Life

1 In the beginning was the one
who is called the Word.
The Word was with God
and was truly God.

as you can see, the verse says the one who is called the word. now who is that Word?

let me post again john 1.1
John 1:1

Living Bible (TLB)

1 1-2 Before anything else existed, there was Christ, with God. He has always been alive and is himself God.

do you see that?

now you can read rev19.13
Revelation 19:13

Expanded Bible (EXB)

13 He is dressed in a ·robe [garment] dipped in blood [C indicating judgment; Is. 63:1–3], and his name is the Word of God [John 1:1].

[jammin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 29 2013,01:45)

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 27 2013,21:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 24 2013,03:04) Jammin…………..Was John so stupid , that if he wanted us to believe the WORD was JESUS , he couldn't just have written Jesus' name there? Why do you have to force the text to say what in fact it does not say, do you people know more then The Apostle John did, so you can freely just change the text to meet your dogmas. that is one of the reasons there is so much confusion in religion, people say all kind of things the scriptures are not saying. That is why we have so many different bible translations, Trinitarians and Preexistence preachers make their own translations of scripture to fit their false teachings. IMO Peace and love…………………………gene it is written in rev 19.13 Revelation 19:13 American Standard Version (ASV) 13 And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God. john knows that the Word in john 1.1 is Christ. rev 19.13 supports jn 1.1. jammin …….. Again you avoid the question , here it is again for you , point one, was John so stupid that if he wanted us to believe he was referring to Jesus he would not have written Jesus' name there instead of the word,  word? Point two, there is much debate concerning who wrote the Gospel of John, many scholars believe it was not John who even wrote the epistle of John, as I recall. Point three, why do you people have to change meanings of the written words used in the text to even meet your false dogmas anyway. Point four show us ONE SCRIPTURE ! where Jesus ever said He was a GOD of any kind . In fact Jesus said He had a GOD, Telling us he was going to his God and OUR GOD His FatherAnd OUR FATHER. It's ONLY false teachers who twist the truth of GOD, and force texts to say what in fact they do not say,  who TRY SO DESPERATELY to make, our BROTHER JESUS different then WE ARE. These false teacher deny the work of God “IN” Jesus Christ our LORD and MORE our BROTHER, in the house hold of GOD. Do you not think people who Even Preach Their Doctrines  of   SEPARATION   of Jesus' identity with us, are not under a curse? , THEY ARE, IMO Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

you want me to show you a verse that jesus said he is God?
why do i need to give you verse like that if the apostles teach that Jesus is God (not the father but the son).

the apostles teach us that the son is like his father. the son is also God by nature.
he haS the form of God.
he was God said by john in john 1.1
thomas said my Lord and my God. john 20.28

now give me verse that jesus said I AM NOT GOD

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 28 2013,18:52)

Mike, So you have been owned and resort to insults.

I've “been owned” because YOU think it is normal for a house builder to say a house was built by HIS HAMMER?     Whatever.  

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 28 2013,18:52)

What framed the “worlds” according to this passage?

Hebrews 11:3
NET ©
By faith we understand that the worlds were set in order at God’s command, so that the visible has its origin in the invisible.

NIV ©
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

NLT ©
By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen.

1.  Did you know that the word used in this verse isn't even “logos” – but “rhema”?  Does that change your understanding or argument in any way?  Does it make you remember a while back when I tried to convince people that “logos” and “rhema” were simply two different Greek words for “word” – but they weren't having it?

2.  Do you accept the translations above as accurately conveying the point of the statement?

3.  What do you think this “word” that framed the worlds was?  Do you think it was an ordinary word spoken by God – as depicted in the translations above?  Or do you think this “word” was a living ENTITY that physically went and framed the worlds when God told him/it to do so?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 29 2013,06:38)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 29 2013,06:17) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 29 2013,06:05) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 28 2013,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 28 2013,06:58) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2013,06:32) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 26 2013,00:23) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2013,12:12) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 25 2013,08:10) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2013,07:22) Kerwin this is Chinese to me ,so give me some examples please poetic and regular T, Poetically though written as a riddle. He is the sound that is not a sound. He is embodied in different media, including that of sound.   He created the Sun and the Moon.  He gathered the waters in one place.  He created light and all its rules. Who is he? kERWIN Colossians 1:15 Click this icon to open a printer friendly page Context NET © 1 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn 2  over all creation, 3 NIV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. NASB © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. NLT © Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation. MSG © We look at this Son and see the God who cannot be seen. We look at this Son and see God's original purpose in everything created. BBE © Who is the image of the unseen God coming into existence before all living things; NRSV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; NKJV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. is this poetic or plain words spoken by paul to the congregation of Colosse T, Poetic. K Which of the statements Paul says makes an allusion to some thing that is hidden in Paul,s words If nothing then they are plain words,,right??? T, God speaks in parables without telling his audience in order to test their heart.  God used Jesus to speak to the woman at the well using a poetic form of speech and she did not understand him at first.  He also spoke to the Jews and even his disciples in a like manner. kERWIN you avoiding to answer my question so here it is again ; Which of the statements Paul says makes an allusion to some thing that is hidden in Paul,s words If nothing then they are plain words,,right??? please answer directly and honestly ; T, “first born of the dead” is a poetic form of speech.   “who hath delivered us from the power of darkness:, “partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light” You may have even have puzzled out the meaning of some of them. Kerwin you answer the question again ;i was talking about this part ; NIV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.[/quote] T, What I used come from the same sentence and/or paragraph.

kerwin

answer the question ;do not deviate of it ;

we will later see the next thing ;so answer my question

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 29 2013,12:17)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 29 2013,01:45) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 27 2013,21:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 24 2013,03:04) Jammin…………..Was John so stupid , that if he wanted us to believe the WORD was JESUS , he couldn't just have written Jesus' name there? Why do you have to force the text to say what in fact it does not say, do you people know more then The Apostle John did, so you can freely just change the text to meet your dogmas. that is one of the reasons there is so much confusion in religion, people say all kind of things the scriptures are not saying. That is why we have so many different bible translations, Trinitarians and Preexistence preachers make their own translations of scripture to fit their false teachings. IMO Peace and love…………………………gene it is written in rev 19.13 Revelation 19:13 American Standard Version (ASV) 13 And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God. john knows that the Word in john 1.1 is Christ. rev 19.13 supports jn 1.1. jammin …….. Again you avoid the question , here it is again for you , point one, was John so stupid that if he wanted us to believe he was referring to Jesus he would not have written Jesus' name there instead of the word,  word? Point two, there is much debate concerning who wrote the Gospel of John, many scholars believe it was not John who even wrote the epistle of John, as I recall. Point three, why do you people have to change meanings of the written words used in the text to even meet your false dogmas anyway. Point four show us ONE SCRIPTURE ! where Jesus ever said He was a GOD of any kind . In fact Jesus said He had a GOD, Telling us he was going to his God and OUR GOD His FatherAnd OUR FATHER. It's ONLY false teachers who twist the truth of GOD, and force texts to say what in fact they do not say,  who TRY SO DESPERATELY to make, our BROTHER JESUS different then WE ARE. These false teacher deny the work of God “IN” Jesus Christ our LORD and MORE our BROTHER, in the house hold of GOD. Do you not think people who Even Preach Their Doctrines  of   SEPARATION   of Jesus' identity with us, are not under a curse? , THEY ARE, IMO Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene you want me to show you a verse that jesus said he is God? why do i need to give you verse like that if the apostles teach that Jesus is God (not the father but the son). the apostles teach us that the son is like his father. the son is also God by nature. he haS the form of God. he was God said by john in john 1.1 thomas said my Lord and my God. john 20.28 now give me verse that jesus said I AM NOT GOD

Jammin……..So Jesus was lying when he prayed and said, For Thou (someone other then the person speaking) art the “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD.
Jesus said “ONLY”  that means there is NO OTHER “TRUE” God.

No why don't you find a different translation that changes those word of Jesus, or maybe like you like Mike believe Those words Like Gods own Words saying he look for other Gods and found none is not meant to be taken emphatically.  Seems God the father and Jesus don't understand you people believe in all kinds of “OTHER GOD'S” .

Maybe God the Father and Jesus, and the apostle Paul Just didn't know thar you people can see other Gods they can't see or for that matter never saw before. Well you can correct them when you meet then.

BUT AS FOR ME I WILL JUST BELIEVE WHAT JESUS AND GOD THE FATHER HAVE SAID concerning OTHER GODS. You can believe in all the Gods you guys want to believe are true Gods.

Peace and love…………………….gene

[jammin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 29 2013,14:22)

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 29 2013,12:17) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 29 2013,01:45) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 27 2013,21:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 24 2013,03:04) Jammin…………..Was John so stupid , that if he wanted us to believe the WORD was JESUS , he couldn't just have written Jesus' name there? Why do you have to force the text to say what in fact it does not say, do you people know more then The Apostle John did, so you can freely just change the text to meet your dogmas. that is one of the reasons there is so much confusion in religion, people say all kind of things the scriptures are not saying. That is why we have so many different bible translations, Trinitarians and Preexistence preachers make their own translations of scripture to fit their false teachings. IMO Peace and love…………………………gene it is written in rev 19.13 Revelation 19:13 American Standard Version (ASV) 13 And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God. john knows that the Word in john 1.1 is Christ. rev 19.13 supports jn 1.1. jammin …….. Again you avoid the question , here it is again for you , point one, was John so stupid that if he wanted us to believe he was referring to Jesus he would not have written Jesus' name there instead of the word,  word? Point two, there is much debate concerning who wrote the Gospel of John, many scholars believe it was not John who even wrote the epistle of John, as I recall. Point three, why do you people have to change meanings of the written words used in the text to even meet your false dogmas anyway. Point four show us ONE SCRIPTURE ! where Jesus ever said He was a GOD of any kind . In fact Jesus said He had a GOD, Telling us he was going to his God and OUR GOD His FatherAnd OUR FATHER. It's ONLY false teachers who twist the truth of GOD, and force texts to say what in fact they do not say,  who TRY SO DESPERATELY to make, our BROTHER JESUS different then WE ARE. These false teacher deny the work of God “IN” Jesus Christ our LORD and MORE our BROTHER, in the house hold of GOD. Do you not think people who Even Preach Their Doctrines  of   SEPARATION   of Jesus' identity with us, are not under a curse? , THEY ARE, IMO Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene you want me to show you a verse that jesus said he is God? why do i need to give you verse like that if the apostles teach that Jesus is God (not the father but the son). the apostles teach us that the son is like his father. the son is also God by nature. he haS the form of God. he was God said by john in john 1.1 thomas said my Lord and my God. john 20.28 now give me verse that jesus said I AM NOT GOD Jammin……..So Jesus was lying when he prayed and said,  For Thou (someone other then the person speaking) art the “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD. Jesus said “ONLY”  that means there is NO OTHER “TRUE” God. No why don't you find a different translation that changes those word of Jesus, or maybe like you like Mike believe Those words Like Gods own Words saying he look for other Gods and found none is not meant to be taken emphatically.  Seems God the father and Jesus don't understand you people believe in all kinds of “OTHER GOD'S” . Maybe God the Father and Jesus, and the apostle Paul Just didn't know thar you people can see other Gods they can't see or for that matter never saw before. Well you can correct them when you meet then. BUT AS FOR ME I WILL JUST BELIEVE WHAT JESUS AND GOD THE FATHER HAVE SAID concerning OTHER GODS. You can believe in all the Gods you guys want to believe are true Gods. Peace and love…………………….gene

jesus is not lying. there is only one TRUE GOD THE FATHER>

i have no two God the father.
i know only one.

the problem with you is you dont understand what jesus told in john 17.1-3

you should know how to read your bible well.
why dont you study first before you talk??? does it make sense?

i give you verse and im not explaining without basis. do you understand what i mean?

believe it or not, john knows that the Word in john 1.1 is Christ himself.

do more research boy

[942767]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 29 2013,21:50)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 29 2013,14:22) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 29 2013,12:17) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 29 2013,01:45) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 27 2013,21:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 24 2013,03:04) Jammin…………..Was John so stupid , that if he wanted us to believe the WORD was JESUS , he couldn't just have written Jesus' name there? Why do you have to force the text to say what in fact it does not say, do you people know more then The Apostle John did, so you can freely just change the text to meet your dogmas. that is one of the reasons there is so much confusion in religion, people say all kind of things the scriptures are not saying. That is why we have so many different bible translations, Trinitarians and Preexistence preachers make their own translations of scripture to fit their false teachings. IMO Peace and love…………………………gene it is written in rev 19.13 Revelation 19:13 American Standard Version (ASV) 13 And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God. john knows that the Word in john 1.1 is Christ. rev 19.13 supports jn 1.1. jammin …….. Again you avoid the question , here it is again for you , point one, was John so stupid that if he wanted us to believe he was referring to Jesus he would not have written Jesus' name there instead of the word,  word? Point two, there is much debate concerning who wrote the Gospel of John, many scholars believe it was not John who even wrote the epistle of John, as I recall. Point three, why do you people have to change meanings of the written words used in the text to even meet your false dogmas anyway. Point four show us ONE SCRIPTURE ! where Jesus ever said He was a GOD of any kind . In fact Jesus said He had a GOD, Telling us he was going to his God and OUR GOD His FatherAnd OUR FATHER. It's ONLY false teachers who twist the truth of GOD, and force texts to say what in fact they do not say,  who TRY SO DESPERATELY to make, our BROTHER JESUS different then WE ARE. These false teacher deny the work of God “IN” Jesus Christ our LORD and MORE our BROTHER, in the house hold of GOD. Do you not think people who Even Preach Their Doctrines  of   SEPARATION   of Jesus' identity with us, are not under a curse? , THEY ARE, IMO Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene you want me to show you a verse that jesus said he is God? why do i need to give you verse like that if the apostles teach that Jesus is God (not the father but the son). the apostles teach us that the son is like his father. the son is also God by nature. he haS the form of God. he was God said by john in john 1.1 thomas said my Lord and my God. john 20.28 now give me verse that jesus said I AM NOT GOD Jammin……..So Jesus was lying when he prayed and said,  For Thou (someone other then the person speaking) art the “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD. Jesus said “ONLY”  that means there is NO OTHER “TRUE” God. No why don't you find a different translation that changes those word of Jesus, or maybe like you like Mike believe Those words Like Gods own Words saying he look for other Gods and found none is not meant to be taken emphatically.  Seems God the father and Jesus don't understand you people believe in all kinds of “OTHER GOD'S” . Maybe God the Father and Jesus, and the apostle Paul Just didn't know thar you people can see other Gods they can't see or for that matter never saw before. Well you can correct them when you meet then. BUT AS FOR ME I WILL JUST BELIEVE WHAT JESUS AND GOD THE FATHER HAVE SAID concerning OTHER GODS. You can believe in all the Gods you guys want to believe are true Gods. Peace and love…………………….gene jesus is not lying. there is only one TRUE GOD THE FATHER> i have no two God the father. i know only one. the problem with you is you dont understand what jesus told in john 17.1-3 you should know how to read your bible well. why dont you study first before you talk??? does it make sense? i give you verse and im not explaining without basis. do you understand what i mean? believe it or not, john knows that the Word in john 1.1 is Christ himself. do more research boy

Hi Jammin:

So, you believe that Jesus is the creator?

Then, please explain what God means by the following statement:

Quote

Isa 44:24 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

God said that He stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; and that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 29 2013,07:49)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 28 2013,18:52) Mike, So you have been owned and resort to insults. I've “been owned” because YOU think it is normal for a house builder to say a house was built by HIS HAMMER?     Whatever.   Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 28 2013,18:52) What framed the “worlds” according to this passage? Hebrews 11:3 NET © By faith we understand that the worlds were set in order at God’s command, so that the visible has its origin in the invisible. NIV © By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. NLT © By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen. 1.  Did you know that the word used in this verse isn't even “logos” – but “rhema”?  Does that change your understanding or argument in any way?  Does it make you remember a while back when I tried to convince people that “logos” and “rhema” were simply two different Greek words for “word” – but they weren't having it? 2.  Do you accept the translations above as accurately conveying the point of the statement? 3.  What do you think this “word” that framed the worlds was?  Do you think it was an ordinary word spoken by God – as depicted in the translations above?  Or do you think this “word” was a living ENTITY that physically went and framed the worlds when God told him/it to do so?

Mike,

I think his word is a device God used to create all that is created.  

I don't see a significant difference between logos and rhema in this case as either is an aspect of the Word, which is a device God used to create the world.  Command also works.

I do remember and I still say that in certain cases they mean the same thing.

Jehovah states the world was set in order by his device.  Normal or not it is equivalent to a man stating  this house was built by my hammer.

The translations are faulty in that is should be ages and not worlds or universe. I do not consider that fault or any other that might exist to be significant as the results are functionally true.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 29 2013,06:17)

s Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 29 2013,06:05) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 28 2013,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 28 2013,06:58) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2013,06:32) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 26 2013,00:23) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2013,12:12) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 25 2013,08:10) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2013,07:22) Kerwin this is Chinese to me ,so give me some examples please poetic and regular T, Poetically though written as a riddle. He is the sound that is not a sound. He is embodied in different media, including that of sound.   He created the Sun and the Moon.  He gathered the waters in one place.  He created light and all its rules. Who is he? kERWIN Colossians 1:15 Click this icon to open a printer friendly page Context NET © 1 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn 2  over all creation, 3 NIV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. NASB © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. NLT © Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation. MSG © We look at this Son and see the God who cannot be seen. We look at this Son and see God's original purpose in everything created. BBE © Who is the image of the unseen God coming into existence before all living things; NRSV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; NKJV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. is this poetic or plain words spoken by paul to the congregation of Colosse T, Poetic. K Which of the statements Paul says makes an allusion to some thing that is hidden in Paul,s words If nothing then they are plain words,,right??? T, God speaks in parables without telling his audience in order to test their heart.  God used Jesus to speak to the woman at the well using a poetic form of speech and she did not understand him at first.  He also spoke to the Jews and even his disciples in a like manner. kERWIN you avoiding to answer my question so here it is again ; Which of the statements Paul says makes an allusion to some thing that is hidden in Paul,s words If nothing then they are plain words,,right??? please answer directly and honestly ; T, “first born of the dead” is a poetic form of speech.   “who hath delivered us from the power of darkness:, “partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light” You may have even have puzzled out the meaning of some of them.[/quote] Kerwin you answer the question again ;i was talking about this part ; NIV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

T,

It seems reasonable that at least “firstborn of creation” is since “firstborn from the dead” is.

“image of the invisible God” is as “image” is not used literally but it is used figuratively.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 30 2013,07:16)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 29 2013,06:17) s Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 29 2013,06:05) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 28 2013,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 28 2013,06:58) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2013,06:32) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 26 2013,00:23) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2013,12:12) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 25 2013,08:10) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2013,07:22) Kerwin this is Chinese to me ,so give me some examples please poetic and regular T, Poetically though written as a riddle. He is the sound that is not a sound. He is embodied in different media, including that of sound.   He created the Sun and the Moon.  He gathered the waters in one place.  He created light and all its rules. Who is he? kERWIN Colossians 1:15 Click this icon to open a printer friendly page Context NET © 1 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn 2  over all creation, 3 NIV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. NASB © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. NLT © Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation. MSG © We look at this Son and see the God who cannot be seen. We look at this Son and see God's original purpose in everything created. BBE © Who is the image of the unseen God coming into existence before all living things; NRSV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; NKJV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. is this poetic or plain words spoken by paul to the congregation of Colosse T, Poetic. K Which of the statements Paul says makes an allusion to some thing that is hidden in Paul,s words If nothing then they are plain words,,right??? T, God speaks in parables without telling his audience in order to test their heart.  God used Jesus to speak to the woman at the well using a poetic form of speech and she did not understand him at first.  He also spoke to the Jews and even his disciples in a like manner. kERWIN you avoiding to answer my question so here it is again ; Which of the statements Paul says makes an allusion to some thing that is hidden in Paul,s words If nothing then they are plain words,,right??? please answer directly and honestly ; T, “first born of the dead” is a poetic form of speech.   “who hath delivered us from the power of darkness:, “partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light” You may have even have puzzled out the meaning of some of them. Kerwin you answer the question again ;i was talking about this part ; NIV © He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.[/quote] T, It seems reasonable that at least “firstborn of creation” is since “firstborn from the dead” is. “image of the invisible God” is as “image” is not used literally but it is used figuratively.

Kerwin

so sins when is now scriptures says that Christ is the first born of the dead ,and you make it that this is changing :first born of creation ” how is that

do you really understand what it means ? being made according to the :”image of the invisible God”

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 30 2013,08:23)

kerwin,Aug. wrote: Kerwin so sins when is now scriptures says that Christ is the first born of the dead ,and you make it that this is changing :first born of creation ” how is that do you really understand what it means ? being made according to the  :”image of the invisible God”

T,

First born does not mean first born unless you believe that creation literally gave birth to the Son.  It is poetic and simply means the first of all that is created.  The question is first what?  First one created? First one in rank of the created?  It is a vague statement but we know Jesus is first in rank of all the created.

Image does not mean image unless you choose to believe that Jehovah is a Jew, the descendant of David, as of the flesh. In that case humanity in general are in the image of the invisible God.

Since Jesus is not the outer image of the invisible God then he is the inner image.  His soul is not the image of God's for if it was he would be God.  That leaves his Spirit and we know he is like God in true righteousness and holiness.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 30 2013,11:59)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 30 2013,08:23) kerwin,Aug. wrote: Kerwin so sins when is now scriptures says that Christ is the first born of the dead ,and you make it that this is changing :first born of creation ” how is that do you really understand what it means ? being made according to the  :”image of the invisible God” T, First born does not mean first born unless you believe that creation literally gave birth to the Son.  It is poetic and simply means the first of all that is created.  The question is first what?  First one created? First one in rank of the created?  It is a vague statement but we know Jesus is first in rank of all the created. Image does not mean image unless you choose to believe that Jehovah is a Jew, the descendant of David, as of the flesh. In that case humanity in general are in the image of the invisible God. Since Jesus is not the outer image of the invisible God then he is the inner image.  His soul is not the image of God's for if it was he would be God.  That leaves his Spirit and we know he is like God in true righteousness and holiness.

KERWIN

so you really did not understand that scripture at all ,because you have only given me your expressions of ignorance of it,

but my question is why can you not see it

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 30 2013,22:01)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 30 2013,11:59) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 30 2013,08:23) kerwin,Aug. wrote: Kerwin so sins when is now scriptures says that Christ is the first born of the dead ,and you make it that this is changing :first born of creation ” how is that do you really understand what it means ? being made according to the  :”image of the invisible God” T, First born does not mean first born unless you believe that creation literally gave birth to the Son.  It is poetic and simply means the first of all that is created.  The question is first what?  First one created? First one in rank of the created?  It is a vague statement but we know Jesus is first in rank of all the created. Image does not mean image unless you choose to believe that Jehovah is a Jew, the descendant of David, as of the flesh. In that case humanity in general are in the image of the invisible God. Since Jesus is not the outer image of the invisible God then he is the inner image.  His soul is not the image of God's for if it was he would be God.  That leaves his Spirit and we know he is like God in true righteousness and holiness. KERWIN so you really did not understand that scripture at all ,because you have only given me your expressions of ignorance of it, but my question is why can you not see it

T,

I can tell you why you don't see it by using certain words from scripture but that is not the topic of this conversation. We are instead discussing whether or not Colossians 1 is written in a poetic form. You seemed to ask what I perceived the words meant and I told you and why I perceived that. That is where this particular conversation appears to presently rest.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 30 2013,23:56)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 30 2013,22:01) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 30 2013,11:59) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 30 2013,08:23) kerwin,Aug. wrote: Kerwin so sins when is now scriptures says that Christ is the first born of the dead ,and you make it that this is changing :first born of creation ” how is that do you really understand what it means ? being made according to the  :”image of the invisible God” T, First born does not mean first born unless you believe that creation literally gave birth to the Son.  It is poetic and simply means the first of all that is created.  The question is first what?  First one created? First one in rank of the created?  It is a vague statement but we know Jesus is first in rank of all the created. Image does not mean image unless you choose to believe that Jehovah is a Jew, the descendant of David, as of the flesh. In that case humanity in general are in the image of the invisible God. Since Jesus is not the outer image of the invisible God then he is the inner image.  His soul is not the image of God's for if it was he would be God.  That leaves his Spirit and we know he is like God in true righteousness and holiness. KERWIN so you really did not understand that scripture at all ,because you have only given me your expressions of ignorance of it, but my question is why can you not see it T, I can tell you why you don't see it by using certain words from scripture but that is not the topic of this conversation. We are instead discussing whether or not Colossians 1 is written in a poetic form.   You seemed to ask what I perceived the words meant and I told you and why I perceived that. That is where this particular conversation appears to presently rest.

kerwin

so you just hide yourself from that truth ,are you suffering of claustrophobia

poetic language means what poetry that it rhymes with other words in the sentence

is it the same as hidden wisdom

testing the scriptures means to SEE IF IT IS FROM GOD OR NOT ,this is something that can not be remove from any topic in this forum,

so answer the question

[942767]

Hi:

“firstborn” of all creation means that was the first man to be born of God, he is “the last Adam”, and he is the first man to be “born again from the dead”.

Quote

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Author]

Posts