JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,01:11)

Is is better to have a spirit that is mastered by God or by man?

Kerwin,

Our heavenly masters are not only master of our spirits, but masters of all of us – including our physical bodies. End of story.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 14 2013,06:40)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 12 2013,20:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,08:18) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 11 2013,22:30) Mike, The only error the Pharisees made was an incomplete answer as Paul answers Jesus words by stating Jesus is made from the seed of David, according to the flesh. Their answer:  The son of David. Jesus rebuttal:  How CAN he be David's son if David himself calls him “My Lord”? And you see an “agreement” there between the Pharisees and Jesus?   Kerwin, how about YOU answer Jesus' question as posted above? Mike, In what manner CAN he be David's son if David himself calls him “My Lord”? Answer Jesus' question, Kerwin.

Mike,

The manner is his flesh.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 14 2013,06:42)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,01:11) Is is better to have a spirit that is mastered by God or by man? Kerwin, Our heavenly masters are not only master of our spirits, but masters of all of us – including our physical bodies.  End of story.

Mike,

So how does that go with the authorities Scriptures state are our masters according to the flesh.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,00:12)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,20:14) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,13:14) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,06:23) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,05:47) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,04:57) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,01:13) T, You are assuming that Jesus' choice to use “your” means the Law was not also his.  That assumption seems to be flawed as Jesus also chose to your when passing a message to his disciples when he stated “I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God”.  As you can see the use of “your” neither confirms or denies the Law was also Jesus'. Galatians 4:4 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 4 but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, So Jesus was made of Mary and made under the Law. In another was of speaking Jesus was not under the Law because he was under grace. K Quote T, You are assuming that Jesus' choice to use “your” means the Law was not also his.  That assumption seems to be flawed how is it flawed ,in your next scriptures Jesus says :MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER ,so he joint them together ,as one but not in my example so your answer his not valid , T, So you believe because Jesus did not say and my Law that the Law of the Jews was not Jesus' Law despite him practicing Passover as an observant Jew does, but a Gentile is forbidden to do. K Mt 17:25 “Yes, he does,” he replied. When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. “What do you think, Simon?” he asked. “From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes—from their own sons or from others?” Mt 17:26 “From others,” Peter answered. “Then the sons are exempt,” Jesus said to him. Mt 17:27 “But so that we may not offend them, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.” why did Christ should have said :our law or MY law does he not stand in the house of God and his sinless T, The sons are under the law of their Father though they do not pay taxes. K this is not an answer to my questions , you answered to another discussion T, I was under the impression that you quoted Matthew 17:25-27 to support your stand and so I pointed out why it does not. As for your question, I already pointed out that the use of your law is neither evidence that it was not Jesus' Law or that it was Jesus' Law.  The passage is silent on that point. Jesus was made under the Law, raised by his parents in accordance to the Law, and celebrated Passover in accordance to the Law. Acts 10:14 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. So while he was with Jesus, Peter observed the Law of the eating of clean and not eating the unclean.

K

show me some of the scriptures where Christ offers sacrifice for his sins as per the law

and also show me a scriptures where a sinless person is under the law

i am under the understanding that a sinless person is not under the law ,

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,00:22)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,20:22) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,13:16) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,05:49) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,05:42) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,04:38) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,03:13) T, John 6:45 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Jesus, like he brother born under the new covenant was taught by God, though his parents also brought him up as part of their service to God. John 14:26 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. The Spirit of God that was in him was the teacher, and so he was taught of God. K yes but those scriptures are related to Christ teachings right so how could it be refer to Christ T, Jesus leads and the believers follow but the path is the same.  The God through his Spirit taught Jesus first. It is us to follow him on the path he pioneered. k YES BUT CHRIST SAYS THAT HE HEARD THE WORDS FROM THE MOUTH OF THE FATHER ,HOW COULD THAT BE UNLESS YOU ARE THEIR TO LISTEN TO IT ,HE SAYS HE CAME FROM THE SIDE OF THE FATHER ,NO ? T, God lives in those that believe through his Spirit.  Where the Spirit is God is and teaches by it. k Quote T, God lives in those that believe through his Spirit.  Where the Spirit is God is and teaches by it. it seems that you can not see what I say or understand what you saying ; someone that believe most be a doer  of God's will ,not just a believer ,so how can this then apply to Jesus at the age of 12, it seems you are hiding behind the word “SPIRIT ” WHAT NEEDS TO INTERPRET FOR ITS RIGHT MEANING   T, Not all those that receive the Spirit and so are taught by God choose to learn.  Jesus chose too learn and in doing so did not sin.  Even at the age of 12 Jesus had not sinned though tempted as is common to a child.  His fruits were the fruits of the Spirit and not those of the flesh.

K

I believe that Christ preexisted and that is why he could argue with anyone at 12 but he also knew that his time was not yet there to show the way ,and so went with his so called parents and stay put so to say until that time of do the will of his father

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,00:28)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,20:50) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,13:19) T, I did not find any passage that states Jesus came from the side of his Father.  If you could please post it I would appreciate it. K JN 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. YOU STILL DO NOT BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES WITHOUT YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION ,BUT ANY WAY ; HE IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN FROM THE FATHER “HOW IS THAT ” THEIR ARE MILLIONS OF OTHER SONS OF GOD IN HEAVEN JN 15:26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, HERE AGAIN JESUS SAYS “I WILL SEND TO YOU “FROM THE FATHER ” NOW, WERE HIS CHRIST WEN HE SEND THE “SPIRIT OF TRUTH “ JN 16:27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father. WHAT DID THE APOSTLES BELIEVED ? ” THAT JESUS CAME FORTH FROM GOD ” NOT FROM A MEN SEED OR A WOMEN BUT FROM GOD ,WHY WOULD JESUS SAY THIS IF HE WAS A REGULAR SON OF GOD JUST LIKE HIS DISCIPLES DID HIS DISCIPLES HAD NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM THEY WERE WAITING FOR THE MESSIAH DID THEY NOT YES ,SO WHAT DOES IT MEAN THEN ” I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER ” JN 16:28 “ I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world ;again and going to the Father.” LOOK HERE; CHRIST SAYS ;”I came forth from the Father and have come into the world ”  IS THIS NOT WHAT JOHN SAYS ; Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” NOW SINS HE CAME INTO THIS WORLD OF US HE SAYS ;” I am leaving the world ” TO GO WERE ;and going to the Father ” SO IN THIS VERSE 28 OF JOHN 16;CHRIST SAYS HE CAME AND GO BACK TO HIS FATHER ,RIGHT YES ,DO YOU BELIEVE THIS JUST AS THE APOSTLES DID T, None of those say that Jesus was at God's side, nor do they mention the word side.  Nevertheless I believe I know what one you speak of and I find your conclusion in applying directly to Jesus to lack both reason and knowledge of the people of the time.

K

Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;

Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

this is my combination of scriptures ;but I do ask you the believe them ,this is in your power not mine

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,04:57)

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 13 2013,18:00) kerwin not yet done? cant you accept that the word in john 1.1 is the son>? pls make your own bible. why are you making this hard for you> Jammin, Can't you believe the Word is the Logos of God?

i believe the Word is the logos of God and that logos is the Christ.
rev 19.13

you believe not the whole truth

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,22:18)

Mike, The manner is his flesh.

The Pharisees EXPECTED the Messiah to be flesh, Kerwin. So “flesh” is not the correct answer to Jesus' question. In fact, you're not even in the ballpark.

Perhaps you should copy your friends the Pharisees, and just remain silent like they did.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,22:21)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 14 2013,06:42) Kerwin, Our heavenly masters are not only master of our spirits, but masters of all of us – including our physical bodies.  End of story. Mike, So how does that go with the authorities Scriptures state are our masters according to the flesh.

God and Jesus are the authorities over every ounce of our being. There are also some earthly authorities who have some control over ONLY our flesh.

What you say is that the fleshly lords have FULL control over every fleshly part of us, and Jehovah and Jesus ONLY have control over the spirit part of us.

I disagree. While the earthly lords don't have authority over our spirits, Jesus and Jehovah DO have authority over our hearts, souls, minds, BODIES, and spirits.

I'm done talking about it now. Believe what you want.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 14 2013,18:44)

i believe the Word is the logos of God and that logos is the Christ. rev 19.13 you believe not the whole truth

And that's the sad part about Kerwin's belief.  He's smart enough to know that the “logos” in Rev 19 IS Jesus.

But because he doesn't personally WANT Jesus to have pre-existed his fleshly manifestation, he is willing to fabricate all kinds of nonsense notions about how the logos in John 1:1 and 1:14 was some other “entity-type-thingy” that came to reside IN Jesus of Nazareth.

But he can't close the circle he opened.  He can't say when this logos actually BECAME the being of Jesus – as taught in Rev 19.

Sometimes he claims the logos is always separate from Jesus – like it just “visited” Jesus or something.

Sometimes he claims that the logos actually MERGED with Jesus, making one being.

Trust me, I have been having this discussion with him for over three years now.  And I have seen him change his belief many times when confronted with scriptural conflicts.

The bottom line is that he doesn't really know what he's talking about.  He's not sure if the one who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son was Jesus, or this imagined “entity-type-thingy” INSIDE OF Jesus.  

He's all over the place, and it's hard to keep up with his ever-changing doctrine.

He's making it up as he goes simply because he personally feels more empowered if he can keep his Jesus as nothing but a regular human being like him.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 14 2013,10:49)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,00:28) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,20:50) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,13:19) T, I did not find any passage that states Jesus came from the side of his Father.  If you could please post it I would appreciate it. K JN 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. YOU STILL DO NOT BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES WITHOUT YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION ,BUT ANY WAY ; HE IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN FROM THE FATHER “HOW IS THAT ” THEIR ARE MILLIONS OF OTHER SONS OF GOD IN HEAVEN JN 15:26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, HERE AGAIN JESUS SAYS “I WILL SEND TO YOU “FROM THE FATHER ” NOW, WERE HIS CHRIST WEN HE SEND THE “SPIRIT OF TRUTH “ JN 16:27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father. WHAT DID THE APOSTLES BELIEVED ? ” THAT JESUS CAME FORTH FROM GOD ” NOT FROM A MEN SEED OR A WOMEN BUT FROM GOD ,WHY WOULD JESUS SAY THIS IF HE WAS A REGULAR SON OF GOD JUST LIKE HIS DISCIPLES DID HIS DISCIPLES HAD NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM THEY WERE WAITING FOR THE MESSIAH DID THEY NOT YES ,SO WHAT DOES IT MEAN THEN ” I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER ” JN 16:28 “ I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world ;again and going to the Father.” LOOK HERE; CHRIST SAYS ;”I came forth from the Father and have come into the world ”  IS THIS NOT WHAT JOHN SAYS ; Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” NOW SINS HE CAME INTO THIS WORLD OF US HE SAYS ;” I am leaving the world ” TO GO WERE ;and going to the Father ” SO IN THIS VERSE 28 OF JOHN 16;CHRIST SAYS HE CAME AND GO BACK TO HIS FATHER ,RIGHT YES ,DO YOU BELIEVE THIS JUST AS THE APOSTLES DID T, None of those say that Jesus was at God's side, nor do they mention the word side.  Nevertheless I believe I know what one you speak of and I find your conclusion in applying directly to Jesus to lack both reason and knowledge of the people of the time. K Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind. Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning. Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. this is my combination of scriptures ;but I do ask you the believe them ,this is in your power not mine

T,

Wisdom is godly wisdom that was brought forth as the first of God's works.

The Word is God's Word by which light was created and the first day, and every one after came to be.

none of these verse state Jesus was at God's side before he was conceived and Scripture states he was made of a woman, the seed of David, according to the flesh.

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 15 2013,06:44)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,04:57) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 13 2013,18:00) kerwin not yet done? cant you accept that the word in john 1.1 is the son>? pls make your own bible. why are you making this hard for you> Jammin, Can't you believe the Word is the Logos of God? i believe the Word is the logos of God and that logos is the Christ. rev 19.13 you believe not the whole truth

Jammin,

So you believe “the word” in scripture should be translated the Christ.

Isaiah 1:10
Jammin's version?

10 Hear the Christ of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom;
give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah

Your version sounds strange to my ears.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,19:39)

Jammin, So you believe “the word” in scripture should be translated the Christ.

That's a silly argument, Kerwin. 99% of the time, “word” simply refers to a spoken or written word in scripture.

It is only a few times that it refers to the main spokesman of God.

So go ahead and translate only those few times as “Christ”, and you'll be right on the money. Those times are John 1:1, 1:14, 1 John 1:1-2, and Revelation 19:13. (I know there are more, but I can't place my finger on them right now.)

And all the rest, you can continue to translate as “word”, because that's all they mean.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 15 2013,07:30)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 14 2013,10:49) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,00:28) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,20:50) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,13:19) T, I did not find any passage that states Jesus came from the side of his Father.  If you could please post it I would appreciate it. K JN 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. YOU STILL DO NOT BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES WITHOUT YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION ,BUT ANY WAY ; HE IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN FROM THE FATHER “HOW IS THAT ” THEIR ARE MILLIONS OF OTHER SONS OF GOD IN HEAVEN JN 15:26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, HERE AGAIN JESUS SAYS “I WILL SEND TO YOU “FROM THE FATHER ” NOW, WERE HIS CHRIST WEN HE SEND THE “SPIRIT OF TRUTH “ JN 16:27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father. WHAT DID THE APOSTLES BELIEVED ? ” THAT JESUS CAME FORTH FROM GOD ” NOT FROM A MEN SEED OR A WOMEN BUT FROM GOD ,WHY WOULD JESUS SAY THIS IF HE WAS A REGULAR SON OF GOD JUST LIKE HIS DISCIPLES DID HIS DISCIPLES HAD NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM THEY WERE WAITING FOR THE MESSIAH DID THEY NOT YES ,SO WHAT DOES IT MEAN THEN ” I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER ” JN 16:28 “ I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world ;again and going to the Father.” LOOK HERE; CHRIST SAYS ;”I came forth from the Father and have come into the world ”  IS THIS NOT WHAT JOHN SAYS ; Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” NOW SINS HE CAME INTO THIS WORLD OF US HE SAYS ;” I am leaving the world ” TO GO WERE ;and going to the Father ” SO IN THIS VERSE 28 OF JOHN 16;CHRIST SAYS HE CAME AND GO BACK TO HIS FATHER ,RIGHT YES ,DO YOU BELIEVE THIS JUST AS THE APOSTLES DID T, None of those say that Jesus was at God's side, nor do they mention the word side.  Nevertheless I believe I know what one you speak of and I find your conclusion in applying directly to Jesus to lack both reason and knowledge of the people of the time. K Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind. Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning. Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. this is my combination of scriptures ;but I do ask you the believe them ,this is in your power not mine T, Wisdom is godly wisdom that was brought forth as the first of God's works. The Word is God's Word by which light was created and the first day, and every one after came to be. none of these verse state Jesus was at God's side before he was conceived and Scripture states he was made of a woman, the seed of David, according to the flesh.

K

look how selective you are in picking you scriptures and avoiding,to answer verse 30,31,in Prov 8;why is that

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 15 2013,08:38)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,19:39) Jammin, So you believe “the word” in scripture should be translated the Christ. That's a silly argument, Kerwin.  99% of the time, “word” simply refers to a spoken or written word in scripture. It is only a few times that it refers to the main spokesman of God. So go ahead and translate only those few times as “Christ”, and you'll be right on the money.  Those times are John 1:1, 1:14, 1 John 1:1-2, and Revelation 19:13.  (I know there are more, but I can't place my finger on them right now.) And all the rest, you can continue to translate as “word”, because that's all they mean.

Mike,

It only “refers to the main spokesman of God” when you think it does but otherwise it simply simply refers to a spoken or written word in scripture.

God's Word is more than man's word as God spoke and all that is created came to be and nothing that is created came to be without God's Word.

Jesus is created.

[kerwin]

T,

I already pointed out that Proverbs 8 is not speaking of Jesus as it is not

By Jesus Christ kings reign,
and princes decree justice.

and it is

By godly Wisdom kings reign,
and princes decree justice.

Jesus is the Prince of Princes and King of kings but he is not Wisdom.  He reigns by it and decrees justice by it.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 14 2013,10:37)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2013,00:12) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,20:14) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,13:14) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,06:23) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,05:47) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 13 2013,04:57) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,01:13) T, You are assuming that Jesus' choice to use “your” means the Law was not also his.  That assumption seems to be flawed as Jesus also chose to your when passing a message to his disciples when he stated “I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God”.  As you can see the use of “your” neither confirms or denies the Law was also Jesus'. Galatians 4:4 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 4 but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, So Jesus was made of Mary and made under the Law. In another was of speaking Jesus was not under the Law because he was under grace. K Quote T, You are assuming that Jesus' choice to use “your” means the Law was not also his.  That assumption seems to be flawed how is it flawed ,in your next scriptures Jesus says :MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER ,so he joint them together ,as one but not in my example so your answer his not valid , T, So you believe because Jesus did not say and my Law that the Law of the Jews was not Jesus' Law despite him practicing Passover as an observant Jew does, but a Gentile is forbidden to do. K Mt 17:25 “Yes, he does,” he replied. When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. “What do you think, Simon?” he asked. “From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes—from their own sons or from others?” Mt 17:26 “From others,” Peter answered. “Then the sons are exempt,” Jesus said to him. Mt 17:27 “But so that we may not offend them, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.” why did Christ should have said :our law or MY law does he not stand in the house of God and his sinless T, The sons are under the law of their Father though they do not pay taxes. K this is not an answer to my questions , you answered to another discussion T, I was under the impression that you quoted Matthew 17:25-27 to support your stand and so I pointed out why it does not. As for your question, I already pointed out that the use of your law is neither evidence that it was not Jesus' Law or that it was Jesus' Law.  The passage is silent on that point. Jesus was made under the Law, raised by his parents in accordance to the Law, and celebrated Passover in accordance to the Law. Acts 10:14 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. So while he was with Jesus, Peter observed the Law of the eating of clean and not eating the unclean. K show me some of the scriptures where Christ offers sacrifice for his sins as per the law and also show me a scriptures where a sinless person is under the law i am under the understanding that a sinless person is not under the law ,

T,

I already told you that in a certain way he has always been under grace and not under the law, even when his body was made.

He ate the passover lamb that is a sacrifice.  I don't think that the bible tells us whether or not he chose to make a sacrifice for sin but as he did not sin I don't think he was required to by the Law.  

Never the less Jesus is zealous for the Law just as his fellow Jews in Acts 21:20.

Note: replaced Jews with “way he”

[kerwin]

T,

Quote

K I believe that Christ preexisted and that is why he could argue with anyone at 12 but he also knew that his time was not yet there to show the way ,and so went with his so called parents and stay put so to say until that time of do the will of his father

And yet Scripture states the he, as is common to 12 year olds, grew in both statue and wisdom after that time. By that time he had had been taught from the time he could first understand by the Spirit and brought up by his parents.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 15 2013,06:48)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,22:18) Mike, The manner is his flesh. The Pharisees EXPECTED the Messiah to be flesh, Kerwin.  So “flesh” is not the correct answer to Jesus' question.  In fact, you're not even in the ballpark. Perhaps you should copy your friends the Pharisees, and just remain silent like they did.

Mike,

Paul is the one I choose to emulate when I state Jesus is the Son of David, in the manner of the flesh. It is by the same flesh he is the Son of Man.

David calls his Son my Lord because in the manner of the Spirit Jesus is the Son of God.

The flesh is made of a woman and the Spirit came from God.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 15 2013,06:51)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2013,22:21) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 14 2013,06:42) Kerwin, Our heavenly masters are not only master of our spirits, but masters of all of us – including our physical bodies.  End of story. Mike, So how does that go with the authorities Scriptures state are our masters according to the flesh. God and Jesus are the authorities over every ounce of our being.  There are also some earthly authorities who have some control over ONLY our flesh. What you say is that the fleshly lords have FULL control over every fleshly part of us, and Jehovah and Jesus ONLY have control over the spirit part of us. I disagree.  While the earthly lords don't have authority over our spirits, Jesus and Jehovah DO have authority over our hearts, souls, minds, BODIES, and spirits. I'm done talking about it now.  Believe what you want.

Mike,

What I am saying is that God rules the Spirit. In those that live by the Spirit the Spirit rules their flesh.

On the other hand man can only rule your flesh but your spirit is your own, even when it is carnal.

[Author]

Posts