JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[kerwin]

Quote (2besee @ July 19 2013,10:27)

T, I don't see what the scriptures that you posted have to do with what I posted. Kerwin, I believe that the book of wisdom is fine especially considering that the early church had it. I find it odd that some things seem to have been hidden.

2besee,

Scripture states the woman is hidden in her place.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,08:56)

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,04:39) Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,00:17) 2besee, Those particular words sound correct but I read the book of Wisdom a decade or so back and believe I found some contradictions with Scripture. My point is that since the just live by faith and Jesus is just then he lives by faith. T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith.  He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” k Quote T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith.  He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” WHAT CHRIST PRAYED FOR WAS NOT IN IGNORANCE AS I CAN UNDERSTAND IT ,A REQUEST IS NOT EQUAL TO FAITH ; AND YOU DID NOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION EITHER , WERE IN SCRIPTURES DOES IT SAYS THAT CHRIST WALKED BY FAITH THE FACT THAT HE IS A RIGHTEOUS DOES NOT EQUAL FAITH ONLY IF YOU ARE IGNORANT ,IF YOU BELIEVE THIS THEN YOU WOULD ALSO BELIEVE THAT ;THE ARCHITECT THAT BUILT A BUILDING IS ALSO HIS BUILDING ; A RIGHTEOUS IS A PERSON THAT WALKS IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF GODS WORDS AND APPLY THEM IN HIS LIFE ,AND HE DOES THAT BY THE BELIEVE THAT HE WILL BE APPROVED BY GOD ,BUT HE DOES NOT KNOW GOD ,ONLY THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES DOES HE KNOW HIM SO HE WALK IN FAITH UNTIL THE DAY THAT GOD WILL REVEL HIMSELF TO HIM THROUGH THAT PERSON RESURRECTION ,UNTIL THEN WE WALK IN FAITH T, Matthew 8:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. faith and knowledge are linked as this passage reveals.  It is also the same patern as Jesus' prayers.

K

those verses are talking about the centurion faith in Jesus not the faith OF JESUS CHRIST ,the humbleness of the centurion recognize that Christ was a great prophet and so show it by his own words ,by recognizing the power Christ has ,to be able just to say words of healing and it would be done ,because those who perform the miracle for Christ can and will act upon his request to God his father ,miracle are a godly prove that he was who he says he was,THE SON OF GOD ,THE FIRST OF CREATION ,

so show me that Christ as the same faith as any other men

like I say the architect does not built in faith his building he knows his building ,but the ones of those helping him do not know the building because they can not see the building ,only the part where they work at or in ,

Quote

faith and knowledge are linked as this passage reveals.

yes faith and knowledge are related but not the way you joint them ;

more faith is required to those that have less knowledge than those who have greater knowledge ,and to the one that has all the knowledge he does not need faith because it as been replaced by that knowledge ;

1Co 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
1Co 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

so NOW we do not have the full knowledge and so as Paul says FAITH,HOPE,AND LOVE DO REMAIN FOR US UNTIL FULL KNOWLEDGE IS ATTAINED,

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,09:22)

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,04:42) Quote (kerwin @ July 18 2013,11:12) T, James 1:6-7 King James Version (KJV) 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. Do you thing Jesus did not ask in faith? k YOU ARE MIXING FAITH WITH A SIMPLE REQUEST ,BUT CHRIST KNEW THE ANSWER BEFORE HE ASK ;BUT YOU MIST IT ,THINK T, He did know that he must suffer and die. Jesus asked if God would take the cup from him so he did not know whether God would or not.   He did know God had the power to do so and he did know God does all that is right.

k

YOU DID NOT THINK TO HARD ,

LK 22:42 saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.”

the request is made by Jesus “WILL” BUT HE KNEW THAT HE DID NOT CAME DOWN TO DO HIS OWN PERSONAL WILL BUT “THE WILL OF HIS FATHER “

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,10:30)

Quote (2besee @ July 19 2013,10:27) T, I don't see what the scriptures that you posted have to do with what I posted. Kerwin, I believe that the book of wisdom is fine especially considering that the early church had it. I find it odd that some things seem to have been hidden. 2besee, Scripture states the woman is hidden in her place.

2BEE

Quote

I believe that the book of wisdom is fine especially considering that the early church had it.

if the apostles had it where is it say that in the scriptures written by them

to me the early church his the apostles church not the ones that ad run like chicken without an head after 70 AD few were those that stick to the truth of Christ teachings .

[terraricca]

2bee

Quote

T, I don't see what the scriptures that you posted have to do with what I posted.

the truth is in the eye of the beholder

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,19:24)

Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,08:56) Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,04:39) Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,00:17) 2besee, Those particular words sound correct but I read the book of Wisdom a decade or so back and believe I found some contradictions with Scripture. My point is that since the just live by faith and Jesus is just then he lives by faith. T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith.  He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” k Quote T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith.  He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” WHAT CHRIST PRAYED FOR WAS NOT IN IGNORANCE AS I CAN UNDERSTAND IT ,A REQUEST IS NOT EQUAL TO FAITH ; AND YOU DID NOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION EITHER , WERE IN SCRIPTURES DOES IT SAYS THAT CHRIST WALKED BY FAITH THE FACT THAT HE IS A RIGHTEOUS DOES NOT EQUAL FAITH ONLY IF YOU ARE IGNORANT ,IF YOU BELIEVE THIS THEN YOU WOULD ALSO BELIEVE THAT ;THE ARCHITECT THAT BUILT A BUILDING IS ALSO HIS BUILDING ; A RIGHTEOUS IS A PERSON THAT WALKS IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF GODS WORDS AND APPLY THEM IN HIS LIFE ,AND HE DOES THAT BY THE BELIEVE THAT HE WILL BE APPROVED BY GOD ,BUT HE DOES NOT KNOW GOD ,ONLY THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES DOES HE KNOW HIM SO HE WALK IN FAITH UNTIL THE DAY THAT GOD WILL REVEL HIMSELF TO HIM THROUGH THAT PERSON RESURRECTION ,UNTIL THEN WE WALK IN FAITH T, Matthew 8:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. faith and knowledge are linked as this passage reveals.  It is also the same patern as Jesus' prayers. K those verses are talking about the centurion faith in Jesus not the faith OF JESUS CHRIST ,the humbleness of the centurion recognize that Christ was a great prophet and so show it by his own words ,by recognizing the power Christ has ,to be able just to say words of healing and it would be done ,because those who perform the miracle for Christ can and will act upon his request to God his father ,miracle are a godly prove that he was who he says he was,THE SON OF GOD ,THE FIRST OF CREATION , so show me that Christ as the same faith as any other men like I say the architect does not built in faith his building he knows his building ,but the ones of those helping him do not know the building because they can not see the building ,only the part where they work at or in , Quote faith and knowledge are linked as this passage reveals. yes faith and knowledge are related but not the way you joint them ; more faith is required to those that have less knowledge than those who have greater knowledge ,and to the one that has all the knowledge he does not need faith because it as been replaced by that knowledge ; 1Co 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 1Co 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. so NOW we do not have the full knowledge and so as Paul says FAITH,HOPE,AND LOVE DO REMAIN FOR US UNTIL FULL KNOWLEDGE IS ATTAINED,

T,

The Centurion is an example of a man with faith, he acknowledges the authority and power, he acknowledges the choice, he asks for the favor. Jesus did these same things.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,19:30)

Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,09:22) Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,04:42) Quote (kerwin @ July 18 2013,11:12) T, James 1:6-7 King James Version (KJV) 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. Do you thing Jesus did not ask in faith? k YOU ARE MIXING FAITH WITH A SIMPLE REQUEST ,BUT CHRIST KNEW THE ANSWER BEFORE HE ASK ;BUT YOU MIST IT ,THINK T, He did know that he must suffer and die. Jesus asked if God would take the cup from him so he did not know whether God would or not.   He did know God had the power to do so and he did know God does all that is right. k YOU DID NOT THINK TO HARD , LK 22:42 saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” the request is made by Jesus “WILL” BUT HE KNEW THAT HE DID NOT CAME DOWN TO DO HIS OWN PERSONAL WILL BUT “THE WILL OF HIS FATHER “

T,

Why did he pray?

[kerwin]

T,

Hebrews 11:1
King James Version (KJV)

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

So you claim Jesus had hoped for nothing and saw all things and I believed Jesus petitioned God that his hopes would be fulfilled and it is by faith he saw what was unseen.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,23:36)

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,19:24) Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,08:56) Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,04:39) Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,00:17) 2besee, Those particular words sound correct but I read the book of Wisdom a decade or so back and believe I found some contradictions with Scripture. My point is that since the just live by faith and Jesus is just then he lives by faith. T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith.  He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” k Quote T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith.  He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” WHAT CHRIST PRAYED FOR WAS NOT IN IGNORANCE AS I CAN UNDERSTAND IT ,A REQUEST IS NOT EQUAL TO FAITH ; AND YOU DID NOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION EITHER , WERE IN SCRIPTURES DOES IT SAYS THAT CHRIST WALKED BY FAITH THE FACT THAT HE IS A RIGHTEOUS DOES NOT EQUAL FAITH ONLY IF YOU ARE IGNORANT ,IF YOU BELIEVE THIS THEN YOU WOULD ALSO BELIEVE THAT ;THE ARCHITECT THAT BUILT A BUILDING IS ALSO HIS BUILDING ; A RIGHTEOUS IS A PERSON THAT WALKS IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF GODS WORDS AND APPLY THEM IN HIS LIFE ,AND HE DOES THAT BY THE BELIEVE THAT HE WILL BE APPROVED BY GOD ,BUT HE DOES NOT KNOW GOD ,ONLY THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES DOES HE KNOW HIM SO HE WALK IN FAITH UNTIL THE DAY THAT GOD WILL REVEL HIMSELF TO HIM THROUGH THAT PERSON RESURRECTION ,UNTIL THEN WE WALK IN FAITH T, Matthew 8:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. faith and knowledge are linked as this passage reveals.  It is also the same patern as Jesus' prayers. K those verses are talking about the centurion faith in Jesus not the faith OF JESUS CHRIST ,the humbleness of the centurion recognize that Christ was a great prophet and so show it by his own words ,by recognizing the power Christ has ,to be able just to say words of healing and it would be done ,because those who perform the miracle for Christ can and will act upon his request to God his father ,miracle are a godly prove that he was who he says he was,THE SON OF GOD ,THE FIRST OF CREATION , so show me that Christ as the same faith as any other men like I say the architect does not built in faith his building he knows his building ,but the ones of those helping him do not know the building because they can not see the building ,only the part where they work at or in , Quote faith and knowledge are linked as this passage reveals. yes faith and knowledge are related but not the way you joint them ; more faith is required to those that have less knowledge than those who have greater knowledge ,and to the one that has all the knowledge he does not need faith because it as been replaced by that knowledge ; 1Co 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 1Co 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. so NOW we do not have the full knowledge and so as Paul says FAITH,HOPE,AND LOVE DO REMAIN FOR US UNTIL FULL KNOWLEDGE IS ATTAINED,   T, The Centurion is an example of a man with faith,  he acknowledges the authority and power,  he acknowledges the choice, he asks for the favor.  Jesus did these same things.

K

Quote

The Centurion is an example of a man with faith,

tell me how does it fit with what Paul says;

1Co 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
1Co 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,23:49)

T, Hebrews 11:1 King James Version (KJV) 11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. So you claim Jesus had hoped for nothing and saw all things and I believed Jesus petitioned God that his hopes would be fulfilled and it is by faith he saw what was unseen.

K

how does that scripture fit with what Paul says in 1 Cor;

1Co 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
1Co 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

WHY IS THEIR”NOW ” ONLY REMAINS “FAITH ” AND “HOPE”

WE ALL KNOW THAT LOVE WILL REMAIN FOREVER SO LET ONLY TALK ABOUT THE TWO IN QUESTION

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,23:37)

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,19:30) Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,09:22) Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,04:42) Quote (kerwin @ July 18 2013,11:12) T, James 1:6-7 King James Version (KJV) 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. Do you thing Jesus did not ask in faith? k YOU ARE MIXING FAITH WITH A SIMPLE REQUEST ,BUT CHRIST KNEW THE ANSWER BEFORE HE ASK ;BUT YOU MIST IT ,THINK T, He did know that he must suffer and die. Jesus asked if God would take the cup from him so he did not know whether God would or not.   He did know God had the power to do so and he did know God does all that is right. k YOU DID NOT THINK TO HARD , LK 22:42 saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” the request is made by Jesus “WILL” BUT HE KNEW THAT HE DID NOT CAME DOWN TO DO HIS OWN PERSONAL WILL BUT “THE WILL OF HIS FATHER “ T, Why did he pray?

K

what is a prayer

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ July 17 2013,21:47)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 18 2013,06:09) Quote (kerwin @ July 17 2013,12:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 17 2013,03:18) Quote (kerwin @ July 15 2013,20:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2013,05:28) Quote (kerwin @ July 15 2013,10:54) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2013,05:36) Quote (kerwin @ July 14 2013,13:41) Mike, Demiurge is a personification. Personification of WHAT exactly? Mike, Philo, a Jew, uses demiurge, archangel, and other titles usually associated with a person to speak of logos in his version of the Jewish Divine Word Doctrines. What exactly is being personified as “archangel” and “a god”, and “other titles”? Mike, The logos. Kerwin, Yeah, but WHAT exactly IS the logos that is personified as an archangel, a god, and other titles? Mike, The divine Word of God by which he created light and all other things that were created. Sorry Kerwin………. I looked, but didn't see your response. Okay, so now we've been told it is the logos and the word of God (both are the same exact thing). And we've been told it is personified as an archangel, a god, and other titles. But you still haven't told me exactly WHAT it is?  Is it an actual word that Jehovah spoke?  Is it a part of Jehovah?  Is it Jehovah Himself?  Is it an entity OTHER THAN Jehovah? Tell me WHAT it is please. Mike, It is not Jehovah or any being.  It is more than just his spoken word which is why Philo personalized it as God's “archangel”, “mediator”, “the firstborn son,” “the archpriest,” “the paraclete(counselor) of humanity.”, and more.

If you don't even know WHAT it is you're believing in, how can you say your belief aligns with the first 4 chapters of John?

I want to challenge that claim, because I already know that the Word is Jesus Christ. But how can I challenge your claim when you won't or can't even tell me WHAT it is I'm challenging?

If it is not Jehovah Himself, and is called “the firstborn son”, then it sure seems like it is a being other than Jehovah – perhaps a being that Jehovah Himself brought forth into existence.

But let's focus on the fact that it is NOT Jehovah Himself for a minute. If that is the case, should John 1:1 say, “the Word was God”? Or “the Word was a god”?

Which translation aligns with Philo calling the Word “a god” and “an archangel”?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 18 2013,09:48)

Mike and Pierre……..I explained this before to you, but your biased filters seem to filter it out, I will restate it again for you.  a Good MECHANIC or “Sheppard”, does not nessarely Make a GOOD “PERSON”.

Gene,

Do you REALLY intend to tell us all how you believe your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is NOT a good person – just so you can pretend to “be right” about this subject?  

I sure hope not.  But even if that IS what you are willing to do in order to “win”, I offer you the following:

Matthew 12:35 KJV
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

So Gene, how do you think Jesus could even TALK ABOUT a “good man”, if he was being LITERAL when he said “God alone is good”?  Is the “man” Jesus was talking about in the verse above really “God Himself”?

Please explain this to me in simple and direct words (as opposed to your usual technique of posting a novel of personal beliefs and insults instead of an actual answer to the question).

Also, do you believe that Jehovah is the MOST HIGH god, like the scriptures say?  If so, can you name one of the LESS HIGH gods that Jehovah is higher than?

Thanks in advance for your clear and direct and honest answers to these questions.

[2besee]

Hi Gene,
When Jesus said that there was none good but God I believe that by that statement he was showing us who the true God was. That is humility, and even if WE tried our hardest we should always remember that it is God alone who is truly good.
So, it was not that Jesus was saying that he himself was not good but that he was a man of sorrows who loved his Father more than anything else, including himself.

You believe that Jesus was the only sinless man, right up to death?

[2besee]

Quote

the apostles had it where is it say that in the scriptures written by them

T,
If you are interested do some research on the net!

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 20 2013,03:42)

Quote (kerwin @ July 17 2013,21:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 18 2013,06:09) Quote (kerwin @ July 17 2013,12:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 17 2013,03:18) Quote (kerwin @ July 15 2013,20:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 16 2013,05:28) Quote (kerwin @ July 15 2013,10:54) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2013,05:36) Quote (kerwin @ July 14 2013,13:41) Mike, Demiurge is a personification. Personification of WHAT exactly? Mike, Philo, a Jew, uses demiurge, archangel, and other titles usually associated with a person to speak of logos in his version of the Jewish Divine Word Doctrines. What exactly is being personified as “archangel” and “a god”, and “other titles”? Mike, The logos. Kerwin, Yeah, but WHAT exactly IS the logos that is personified as an archangel, a god, and other titles? Mike, The divine Word of God by which he created light and all other things that were created. Sorry Kerwin………. I looked, but didn't see your response. Okay, so now we've been told it is the logos and the word of God (both are the same exact thing). And we've been told it is personified as an archangel, a god, and other titles. But you still haven't told me exactly WHAT it is?  Is it an actual word that Jehovah spoke?  Is it a part of Jehovah?  Is it Jehovah Himself?  Is it an entity OTHER THAN Jehovah? Tell me WHAT it is please. Mike, It is not Jehovah or any being.  It is more than just his spoken word which is why Philo personalized it as God's “archangel”, “mediator”, “the firstborn son,” “the archpriest,” “the paraclete(counselor) of humanity.”, and more. If you don't even know WHAT it is you're believing in, how can you say your belief aligns with the first 4 chapters of John? I want to challenge that claim, because I already know that the Word is Jesus Christ.  But how can I challenge your claim when you won't or can't even tell me WHAT it is I'm challenging? If it is not Jehovah Himself, and is called “the firstborn son”, then it sure seems like it is a being other than Jehovah – perhaps a being that Jehovah Himself brought forth into existence. But let's focus on the fact that it is NOT Jehovah Himself for a minute.  If that is the case, should John 1:1 say, “the Word was God”?  Or “the Word was a god”? Which translation aligns with Philo calling the Word “a god” and “an archangel”?

Mike,

It is God's Word.  

God spoke and his Word created all that is came to be.  
God speaks and his Word commands the angels.  
God speaks and his Word allows Satan to oppress Job.  
God speaks and his Word stops the oppression.
God speaks and his Word cause the tide to rolls in.
God speaks and his Word causes the tide to roll out.
God speaks and his Word condemns a man to the fiery lake.
God speaks and his Word blesses a man with eternal life.
God speaks and the Word caries his message to man.
God speaks and his Word gives Laws.
God speaks and his Word teaches men and angels.
God speaks and his Word comforts those in need.
It goes on and on and on.

Either the Word was God or was a god will work as the both serve to reveal that the Word is personified as either a god or as a God.  Philo only called the Word an archangel but according to you an archangel is a god.  John just used a doctrine and wording that is similar to Philo's.  Most, and possibly all, literal translations align to a divine Word doctrine similar to Philo's.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ July 20 2013,03:28)

Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,23:37) Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,19:30) Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,09:22) Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,04:42) Quote (kerwin @ July 18 2013,11:12) T, James 1:6-7 King James Version (KJV) 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. Do you thing Jesus did not ask in faith? k YOU ARE MIXING FAITH WITH A SIMPLE REQUEST ,BUT CHRIST KNEW THE ANSWER BEFORE HE ASK ;BUT YOU MIST IT ,THINK T, He did know that he must suffer and die. Jesus asked if God would take the cup from him so he did not know whether God would or not.   He did know God had the power to do so and he did know God does all that is right. k YOU DID NOT THINK TO HARD , LK 22:42 saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” the request is made by Jesus “WILL” BUT HE KNEW THAT HE DID NOT CAME DOWN TO DO HIS OWN PERSONAL WILL BUT “THE WILL OF HIS FATHER “ T, Why did he pray? K what is a prayer

T,

It is asking God for something or some other communication.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ July 20 2013,03:25)

Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,23:49) T, Hebrews 11:1 King James Version (KJV) 11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. So you claim Jesus had hoped for nothing and saw all things and I believed Jesus petitioned God that his hopes would be fulfilled and it is by faith he saw what was unseen. K how does that scripture fit with what Paul says in 1 Cor; 1Co 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 1Co 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. WHY IS THEIR”NOW ”  ONLY REMAINS “FAITH ” AND “HOPE” WE ALL KNOW THAT LOVE WILL REMAIN FOREVER SO LET ONLY TALK ABOUT THE TWO IN QUESTION

T,

We will never be all knowing.
Jesus was not all knowing.
Jesus faith was beyond strong and so he understood Scripture. Even though he understood Scripture he asked God if there was another way. Even though he knew Scripture he asked God if believers could be one as he and God are one.

He told his disciples have courage I have overcome the world. We are to follow in his footsteps having faith as he had faith and overcame the world.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ July 20 2013,03:22)

Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,23:36) Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,19:24) Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,08:56) Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,04:39) Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,00:17) 2besee, Those particular words sound correct but I read the book of Wisdom a decade or so back and believe I found some contradictions with Scripture. My point is that since the just live by faith and Jesus is just then he lives by faith. T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith.  He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” k Quote T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith.  He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” WHAT CHRIST PRAYED FOR WAS NOT IN IGNORANCE AS I CAN UNDERSTAND IT ,A REQUEST IS NOT EQUAL TO FAITH ; AND YOU DID NOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION EITHER , WERE IN SCRIPTURES DOES IT SAYS THAT CHRIST WALKED BY FAITH THE FACT THAT HE IS A RIGHTEOUS DOES NOT EQUAL FAITH ONLY IF YOU ARE IGNORANT ,IF YOU BELIEVE THIS THEN YOU WOULD ALSO BELIEVE THAT ;THE ARCHITECT THAT BUILT A BUILDING IS ALSO HIS BUILDING ; A RIGHTEOUS IS A PERSON THAT WALKS IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF GODS WORDS AND APPLY THEM IN HIS LIFE ,AND HE DOES THAT BY THE BELIEVE THAT HE WILL BE APPROVED BY GOD ,BUT HE DOES NOT KNOW GOD ,ONLY THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES DOES HE KNOW HIM SO HE WALK IN FAITH UNTIL THE DAY THAT GOD WILL REVEL HIMSELF TO HIM THROUGH THAT PERSON RESURRECTION ,UNTIL THEN WE WALK IN FAITH T, Matthew 8:8-10 King James Version (KJV) 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. faith and knowledge are linked as this passage reveals.  It is also the same patern as Jesus' prayers. K those verses are talking about the centurion faith in Jesus not the faith OF JESUS CHRIST ,the humbleness of the centurion recognize that Christ was a great prophet and so show it by his own words ,by recognizing the power Christ has ,to be able just to say words of healing and it would be done ,because those who perform the miracle for Christ can and will act upon his request to God his father ,miracle are a godly prove that he was who he says he was,THE SON OF GOD ,THE FIRST OF CREATION , so show me that Christ as the same faith as any other men like I say the architect does not built in faith his building he knows his building ,but the ones of those helping him do not know the building because they can not see the building ,only the part where they work at or in , Quote faith and knowledge are linked as this passage reveals. yes faith and knowledge are related but not the way you joint them ; more faith is required to those that have less knowledge than those who have greater knowledge ,and to the one that has all the knowledge he does not need faith because it as been replaced by that knowledge ; 1Co 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 1Co 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. so NOW we do not have the full knowledge and so as Paul says FAITH,HOPE,AND LOVE DO REMAIN FOR US UNTIL FULL KNOWLEDGE IS ATTAINED,   T, The Centurion is an example of a man with faith,  he acknowledges the authority and power,  he acknowledges the choice, he asks for the favor.  Jesus did these same things. K Quote The Centurion is an example of a man with faith, tell me how does it fit with what Paul says; 1Co 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 1Co 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

T,

Paul is speaking of prophecy and knowledge, not faith.

[2besee]

Quote

what is a prayer

Terraricca,
Prayer is worship, as is reading scripture. Apparently, these two things are what sums up 'worship' according to the Jews.

http://followtherabbi.com/guide/detail/he-went-to-synagogue

The above are some interesting facts.

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