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Quote (terraricca @ July 18 2013,05:53)
Knot so fast sonny ,you have to start living by your own rules ,like 'YOU LIKE ANSWERS OTHER LIKE THAT AS WELL ;SO COULD YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION FIRST SINS I HAVE ASK THEM FIRST ;
HERE THEY AGAIN ;
can an sinner become righteous
if yes what make him righteous can an sinner become a just man
if so how ???scripture pleaseis there a difference between a JUST MAN AND A RIGHTEOUS MAN
IF SO WHAT are all righteous the Christ
and are they also the only begotten son of God are they also the first born of creation ,and is all creation created through them
are all righteous sinless
if so then we should also have faith in them right
but they never talked about them selves but about Christ and his father right
T,I answered these but I believe you caught that after posting as you responded to my answers. I hope to answer that post.
T,
James 1:6-7
King James Version (KJV)6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.Do you thing Jesus did not ask in faith?
Quote (kerwin @ July 16 2013,19:05) Quote (terraricca @ July 16 2013,10:16) Quote (kerwin @ July 16 2013,10:13) T, Is Jesus just?
Do the just live by faith?
kerwinlet see if you know this ? WHAT IS A JUST MEN
T,A righteous man.
Kerwin,
Have you read any of the book of wisdom? It's in my bible (The Jerusalem Bible) but not in many others.
Apparently it was written approximately 50BC.
I'm posting this because I think it has a bit to do with what you are talking about, regarding the righteous man (upright in this version) -for your reading!Chapter 2.
10 'As for the upright man who is poor, let us oppress him; let us not spare the widow, nor respect old age, white-haired with many years.
11 Let our might be the yardstick of right, since weakness argues its own futility.
12 Let us lay traps for the upright man, since he annoys us and opposes our way of life, reproaches us for our sins against the Law, and accuses us of sins against our upbringing.
13 He claims to have knowledge of God, and calls himself a child of the Lord.
14 We see him as a reproof to our way of thinking, the very sight of him weighs our spirits down;
15 for his kind of life is not like other people's, and his ways are quite different.
16 In his opinion we are counterfeit; he avoids our ways as he would filth; he proclaims the final end of the upright as blessed and boasts of having God for his father.
17 Let us see if what he says is true, and test him to see what sort of end he will have.
18 For if the upright man is God's son, God will help him and rescue him from the clutches of his enemies.
19 Let us test him with cruelty and with torture, and thus explore this gentleness of his and put his patience to the test.
20 Let us condemn him to a shameful death since God will rescue him — or so he claims.'
21 This is the way they reason, but they are misled, since their malice makes them blind.
22 They do not know the hidden things of God, they do not hope for the reward of holiness, they do not believe in a reward for blameless souls.
23 For God created human beings to be immortal, he made them as an image of his own nature;
24 Death came into the world only through the Devil's envy, as those who belong to him find to their cost.
Chapter 3.
1 But the souls of the upright are in the hands of God, and no torment can touch them.
2 To the unenlightened, they appeared to die, their departure was regarded as disaster,
3 their leaving us like annihilation; but they are at peace.
4 If, as it seemed to us, they suffered punishment, their hope was rich with immortality;
5 slight was their correction, great will their blessings be. God was putting them to the test and has proved them worthy to be with him;
6 he has tested them like gold in a furnace, and accepted them as a perfect burnt offering.
7 At their time of visitation, they will shine out; as sparks run through the stubble, so will they.
8 They will judge nations, rule over peoples, and the Lord will be their king for ever.
9 Those who trust in him will understand the truth, those who are faithful will live with him in love; for grace and mercy await his holy ones, and he intervenes on behalf of his chosen.
2bee
Quote Have you read any of the book of wisdom? It's in my bible (The Jerusalem Bible) but not in many others.
Apparently it was written approximately 50BC.I have that bible as well and read it but the book you are quoting is apocrypha meams that is not accepted as part of the word of God ,but rather the words of men ,it is in those books that the Catholic find their truth ,most of those books if not all are glorifying men,instead of God almighty,
so I would not advice anyone to read them but they can if they so chose so ,but it is not godly food ,
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 18 2013,10:30) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 17 2013,11:46) God said there were no other Gods besides him and told us not to have any other Gods besides Him. Does the word hypocrisy mean any thing to you?
Jesus said ONLY God was good, but then called himself the “good shepherd”, and spoke parables about “good” human beings bringing “good” things out of the “goodness” of their hearts.Was Jesus a hypocrite, Gene? YES or NO?
And if “NO”, then how do you explain this conundrum?
Again, if you cannot explain it, it means you don't know. And those who don't know should remain silent and listen to others…….. instead of speaking.
Gene, there is a good adage that applies to you:
It's better to remain silent and let others think you're an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Did you find the words of my last two posts a little harsh, Gene? Good! Now you know how I feel about being called a “false teacher” and a person who “tries to separate Jesus from us”. You talk too much stupid crap, and then RUN AWAY from the simple questions I ask – questions that would scripturally prove you wrong if you were ever man enough to answer them. We get sick of it, Gene. We can only take so much before striking back.
Mike and Pierre……..I explained this before to you, but your biased filters seem to filter it out, I will restate it again for you. a Good MECHANIC or “Sheppard”, does not nessarely Make a GOOD “PERSON”. I Knew a “GOOD” Mechanic once, who was convicted of 4 MURDERS, and is Now on death row. But in you line of reasoning, i would have to say he was a “GOOD” PERSON also after all he was a “GOOD” Mechanic. Can you now see you folly? Learn to believe what Jesus said and if he said He did not take that title of being labeled Good on, and that “ONLY” GOD was GOOD ,Just believe it. Even if Jesus was a good person in a general sense, he did not want that glory put on him, espically sense he was doing the FATHERS WILL, not his own WILL.GOD only is Good, i agree with Jesus, but i realize you and your Co-hart, dont agree with him and God the Father on many things, and i think your own criticising CRAP, applies to you two more then anyone else here. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
2besee,
Those particular words sound correct but I read the book of Wisdom a decade or so back and believe I found some contradictions with Scripture.
My point is that since the just live by faith and Jesus is just then he lives by faith.
T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith. He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”
Quote (terraricca @ July 18 2013,09:01) K Quote T, 1)I already states a just man is a righteous man.
2)A sinner who changes his ways and does all that is right is a just(righteous) man. God does not remember his sins.
3)A just man, even a ex sinner, lives by faith.
4)There is but one Christ, the man Jesus son of David. 5) The fact he is Christ and all that applies does not mean he is an exception that the just live by faith.
6)We have to believe Jesus is the Christ, but that is seen by his teachings, his miracles and his other works. That does not negate that the righteous live by faith.
1)so a just man is the same than a righteous man ,correct ,those man are doing the will of God and so do not sin .
2)all man are sinner we have already agree on this with the scriptures so all of us have to get out of our sinful way and believe that Christ who is send by God his father can help us and do that all our sins are forgiven ,we do not know this but we hope it is done ,so we will see later in time of judgment if we deserved it ,this HIS OUR FAITH ,BUT UNLESS WE PRODUCE THE DEEDS OF THAT FAITH ,WE WILL NOT RECEIVE ANY OF THE PROMISES GOD AS GIVEN TO HIS SON FOR US ,
3)this is covered in #2
…
T,I get the feeling you do not want to answer my questions as they are.
The first 3 seem to be points we agree on.
Quote NO MAN BORN OF A WOMEN AND A MAN CAN SAVE ANYONE ;BECAUSE A SINNER CAN NOT EVEN SAVE HIMSELF FROM SIN AND UNTIL CHRIST Could you give me the Scripture because I am not sure where it is or what to search for to find it.
Even before Christ the Just lived by faith though like Abraham they were credited with righteousness.
Quote SHOW ME THAT JESUS IS A DESCENDANT OF DAVID IF JOSEPH IS NOT HIS FATHER Romans 1:3
King James Version (KJV)3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Quote ,AND SHOW ME UNDER WHAT LAW CAN SHE BREAK THE CURSE OF THE SIN FROM ADAM,??? I do not know who she is but God broke the curse because Jesus was upheld and elected by God to do so and he was true.
Isaiah 42:1
King James Version (KJV)42 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Quote believing that he his the true and only begotten son of God Yes
Quote that God his father as send him down to earth to be born from a women and so to fulfill all what it is said about him in the prophets and the Psalm No
Quote that he died for our sins as a righteous and sinless man Yes
Quote that after his resurrection he returned to his father and took his previous glory back Not written
Quote ) and that he now sits on the right side of God his father Yes
Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,00:17) 2besee, Those particular words sound correct but I read the book of Wisdom a decade or so back and believe I found some contradictions with Scripture.
My point is that since the just live by faith and Jesus is just then he lives by faith.
T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith. He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”
kQuote T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith. He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” WHAT CHRIST PRAYED FOR WAS NOT IN IGNORANCE AS I CAN UNDERSTAND IT ,A REQUEST IS NOT EQUAL TO FAITH ; AND YOU DID NOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION EITHER ,
WERE IN SCRIPTURES DOES IT SAYS THAT CHRIST WALKED BY FAITH
THE FACT THAT HE IS A RIGHTEOUS DOES NOT EQUAL FAITH ONLY IF YOU ARE IGNORANT ,IF YOU BELIEVE THIS THEN YOU WOULD ALSO BELIEVE THAT ;THE ARCHITECT THAT BUILT A BUILDING IS ALSO HIS BUILDING ;
A RIGHTEOUS IS A PERSON THAT WALKS IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF GODS WORDS AND APPLY THEM IN HIS LIFE ,AND HE DOES THAT BY THE BELIEVE THAT HE WILL BE APPROVED BY GOD ,BUT HE DOES NOT KNOW GOD ,ONLY THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES DOES HE KNOW HIM SO HE WALK IN FAITH UNTIL THE DAY THAT GOD WILL REVEL HIMSELF TO HIM THROUGH THAT PERSON RESURRECTION ,UNTIL THEN WE WALK IN FAITH
Quote (kerwin @ July 18 2013,11:12) T, James 1:6-7
King James Version (KJV)6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.Do you thing Jesus did not ask in faith?
kYOU ARE MIXING FAITH WITH A SIMPLE REQUEST ,BUT CHRIST KNEW THE ANSWER BEFORE HE ASK ;BUT YOU MIST IT ,THINK
K
Quote T, Is Jesus just?
Do the just live by faith?yes Jesus his a righteous man ,he is the son of God, he came down from heaven to do the will of his father and make is father known to us,and die for our sins ,he also came to accomplish all what was said about the Christ in the scriptures ,
A MAN THAT WALKED TO ACCOMPLISH A MISSION DOES NOT WALK BY FAITH BUT BY THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIS PAD ,HE BECAME THE LIVING PAD FOR US ALL AND CLAIM THAT ONE OF THE REQUIREMENT OF IS ,IS TO HAVE FAITH IN HIM ,IN WHAT HE AS TOLD US ,WHAT HE TOLD US COME FROM HIS FATHER WHOM HE KNEW WELL,;
FAITH = BELIEVING AND TRUSTING ,FAITH WILL GO AWAY WEN OUR KNOWLEDGE WILL TAKE OVER AND SO IS NO LONGER UNKNOWN BUT KNOWN AND SO THE IGNORANCE AS GIVEN PLACE TO THE KNOWLEDGE
Terraricca, It is NOT just the Catholic Bibles which have the extra books in them – they are also in the RSV and some versions of the KJV and probably more, including the eastern orthodox church and the Ethiopian church. They were accepted by the earliest Christians and fragments if them were found in the dead sea scrolls.
Quote Wikipedia:
Their acceptance among early Christians was widespread, though not universal, and the Bible of the early Church always included, with varying degrees of recognition, books now called deuterocanonical. Some say that their canonicity seems not to have been doubted in the Church until it was challenged by Jews after AD 100, sometimes postulating a hypothetical Council of Jamnia. Regional councils in the West published official canons that included these books as early as the 4th and 5th centuries.
Kerwin,
My Jerusalem bible – I love it.
It has each Bible chapter with a heading title and does not have double columns but single, so it's more like a book and thick.
It has the name Yahweh all through the Old Testament.
It was translated word for word from the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic rather than from the Latin vulgate.Regarding the book of wisdom, this is from wikipedia:
Personification of Wisdom
There are found in the Book of Wisdom and other books of the wisdom literature to Wisdom as a personification with divine attributes.
In chapter seven, Wisdom is said to be “the fashioner of all things” (v. 22). Because she fashions all things, is “an associate in his [God’s] works” (8:4), and is a “pure emanation of the glory of the Almighty” (7:25), Wisdom is eternal and one in being (consubstantial) with the Father. Because Wisdom is God’s “creative agent”, she must be intimately identified with God himself.
It has been claimed that the most definite indication that personified Wisdom refers to the Messiah is the alleged paraphrasing of Wis 7:26 in Heb 1:3a. Wis 7:26 says that “she is a reflection of eternal light, a spotless mirror of the working of God, and an image of his goodness.” The author of Hebrews says of Christ: “He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power.”
Wisdom 9:17 “Who has learned your counsel, unless you have given wisdom and sent your holy spirit from on high?”. The next verse says that salvation is an act of Wisdom. In Christianity salvation is an activity reserved for God, but it is here given to Wisdom, thus identifying them with one another.
Wisdom 2
Some may see the second chapter of the Book of Wisdom (Wisdom 2) as building up to a prophecy of Christ’s passion. First the ungodly men are described (Wis 1:16-2:9), followed by their plotting against the righteous man (2:10-20). The passage describes in detail the treatment of Jesus by the Jewish authorities. The first indication for some that it is a prophecy of the Messiah is in verse 11. Where the RSV reads “weak”, the Greek has “achreston” (ἄχρηστον), which some may claim is a play on the title Christos (Χριστός). Verse 12 is a quote of the LXX version of Is 3:10; Is 3:10 was allegedly taken to refer to Jesus in the 1st-century Epistle of Barnabas.
On the whole, this treatment of the suffering of the righteous man is heavily indebted to Isaiah; particularly the fourth Suffering Servant song (Is 52:13-53:12). Verse 13 uses pais (παῖς), child or servant, from Is 52:13. Verse 15 says his very sight is a burden, referencing Is 53:2. In verse 16 he calls God his father, which is thought to be based on a poor understanding of pais as in Is 52:13. Verse 18 is comparable to Is 42:1. Verse 19 makes reference to Is 53:7. A final reference to the Messiah is the righteous man’s “shameful death” in verse 20. This death has been identified with Jesus’ death on a cross, a cursed death hanging on a tree.
In the realm of Bible criticism and theology, all sorts of opinions are held by all sorts of persons, whether ordinary persons or university professors. Some opine that the Gospel of Matthew may contain allusions to the Wisdom of Solomon in the structuring of Matthew's Passion Narrative. Supposed parallels between Wisdom and Matthew include the theme of testing, and the mocking of a servant of God's claim to be protected by God. Matthew's gospel teaches that Jesus is the suffering servant of God.
As another example of the myriad opinions and interpretations of the Bible: while some think that Wis 2:17-18, “Let us see if his words are true, and let us test what will happen at the end of his life; for if the righteous man is God’s son, he will help him, and will deliver him from the hand of his adversaries,” was an influence on Mt 27:43, “He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him; for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” it is more natural to see it as a reference to Ps 22:8 “He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.”
Quote My point is that since the just live by faith and Jesus is just then he lives by faith. T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith. He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Kerwin, Of course Jesus had faith.
Do you see anywhere in scriptures where it says “He did not have faith”, of course not. Jesus had faith, PLENTY of faith.
I don't know what Terraricca is saying, I think he just likes to say that some are wrong?Quote (2besee @ July 19 2013,06:23) Terraricca, It is NOT just the Catholic Bibles which have the extra books in them – they are also in the RSV and some versions of the KJV and probably more, including the eastern orthodox church and the Ethiopian church. They were accepted by the earliest Christians and fragments if them were found in the dead sea scrolls. Quote Wikipedia:
Their acceptance among early Christians was widespread, though not universal, and the Bible of the early Church always included, with varying degrees of recognition, books now called deuterocanonical. Some say that their canonicity seems not to have been doubted in the Church until it was challenged by Jews after AD 100, sometimes postulating a hypothetical Council of Jamnia. Regional councils in the West published official canons that included these books as early as the 4th and 5th centuries.
that was not my point ,Quote (2besee @ July 19 2013,06:24) Kerwin,
My Jerusalem bible – I love it.
It has each Bible chapter with a heading title and does not have double columns but single, so it's more like a book and thick.
It has the name Yahweh all through the Old Testament.
It was translated word for word from the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic rather than from the Latin vulgate.Regarding the book of wisdom, this is from wikipedia:
Personification of Wisdom
There are found in the Book of Wisdom and other books of the wisdom literature to Wisdom as a personification with divine attributes.
In chapter seven, Wisdom is said to be “the fashioner of all things” (v. 22). Because she fashions all things, is “an associate in his [God’s] works” (8:4), and is a “pure emanation of the glory of the Almighty” (7:25), Wisdom is eternal and one in being (consubstantial) with the Father. Because Wisdom is God’s “creative agent”, she must be intimately identified with God himself.
It has been claimed that the most definite indication that personified Wisdom refers to the Messiah is the alleged paraphrasing of Wis 7:26 in Heb 1:3a. Wis 7:26 says that “she is a reflection of eternal light, a spotless mirror of the working of God, and an image of his goodness.” The author of Hebrews says of Christ: “He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power.”
Wisdom 9:17 “Who has learned your counsel, unless you have given wisdom and sent your holy spirit from on high?”. The next verse says that salvation is an act of Wisdom. In Christianity salvation is an activity reserved for God, but it is here given to Wisdom, thus identifying them with one another.
Wisdom 2
Some may see the second chapter of the Book of Wisdom (Wisdom 2) as building up to a prophecy of Christ’s passion. First the ungodly men are described (Wis 1:16-2:9), followed by their plotting against the righteous man (2:10-20). The passage describes in detail the treatment of Jesus by the Jewish authorities. The first indication for some that it is a prophecy of the Messiah is in verse 11. Where the RSV reads “weak”, the Greek has “achreston” (ἄχρηστον), which some may claim is a play on the title Christos (Χριστός). Verse 12 is a quote of the LXX version of Is 3:10; Is 3:10 was allegedly taken to refer to Jesus in the 1st-century Epistle of Barnabas.
On the whole, this treatment of the suffering of the righteous man is heavily indebted to Isaiah; particularly the fourth Suffering Servant song (Is 52:13-53:12). Verse 13 uses pais (παῖς), child or servant, from Is 52:13. Verse 15 says his very sight is a burden, referencing Is 53:2. In verse 16 he calls God his father, which is thought to be based on a poor understanding of pais as in Is 52:13. Verse 18 is comparable to Is 42:1. Verse 19 makes reference to Is 53:7. A final reference to the Messiah is the righteous man’s “shameful death” in verse 20. This death has been identified with Jesus’ death on a cross, a cursed death hanging on a tree.
In the realm of Bible criticism and theology, all sorts of opinions are held by all sorts of persons, whether ordinary persons or university professors. Some opine that the Gospel of Matthew may contain allusions to the Wisdom of Solomon in the structuring of Matthew's Passion Narrative. Supposed parallels between Wisdom and Matthew include the theme of testing, and the mocking of a servant of God's claim to be protected by God. Matthew's gospel teaches that Jesus is the suffering servant of God.
As another example of the myriad opinions and interpretations of the Bible: while some think that Wis 2:17-18, “Let us see if his words are true, and let us test what will happen at the end of his life; for if the righteous man is God’s son, he will help him, and will deliver him from the hand of his adversaries,” was an influence on Mt 27:43, “He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him; for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” it is more natural to see it as a reference to Ps 22:8 “He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.”
2bee and kerwinplease read this and see if you can understand what is really going on and what really happen;
Lk 24:13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem.
Lk 24:14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened.
Lk 24:15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them;
Lk 24:16 but they were kept from recognizing him.
Lk 24:17 He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”
They stood still, their faces downcast.
Lk 24:18 One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?”
Lk 24:19 “What things?” he asked.
“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people.
Lk 24:20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him;
Lk 24:21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place.
Lk 24:22 In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning
Lk 24:23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive.
Lk 24:24 Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see.”
Lk 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Lk 24:26 Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”
Lk 24:26 Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”
Lk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
Lk 24:28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus acted as if he were going farther.
Lk 24:29 But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.
Lk 24:30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them.
Lk 24:31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight.
Lk 24:32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”
Lk 24:33 They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together
Lk 24:34 and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.”
Lk 24:35 Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,04:39) Quote (kerwin @ July 19 2013,00:17) 2besee, Those particular words sound correct but I read the book of Wisdom a decade or so back and believe I found some contradictions with Scripture.
My point is that since the just live by faith and Jesus is just then he lives by faith.
T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith. He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”
kQuote T claim that Jesus had knowledge and so did not have faith. He does not see that it was faith that led Jesus to say “if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” WHAT CHRIST PRAYED FOR WAS NOT IN IGNORANCE AS I CAN UNDERSTAND IT ,A REQUEST IS NOT EQUAL TO FAITH ; AND YOU DID NOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION EITHER ,
WERE IN SCRIPTURES DOES IT SAYS THAT CHRIST WALKED BY FAITH
THE FACT THAT HE IS A RIGHTEOUS DOES NOT EQUAL FAITH ONLY IF YOU ARE IGNORANT ,IF YOU BELIEVE THIS THEN YOU WOULD ALSO BELIEVE THAT ;THE ARCHITECT THAT BUILT A BUILDING IS ALSO HIS BUILDING ;
A RIGHTEOUS IS A PERSON THAT WALKS IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF GODS WORDS AND APPLY THEM IN HIS LIFE ,AND HE DOES THAT BY THE BELIEVE THAT HE WILL BE APPROVED BY GOD ,BUT HE DOES NOT KNOW GOD ,ONLY THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES DOES HE KNOW HIM SO HE WALK IN FAITH UNTIL THE DAY THAT GOD WILL REVEL HIMSELF TO HIM THROUGH THAT PERSON RESURRECTION ,UNTIL THEN WE WALK IN FAITH
T,Matthew 8:8-10
King James Version (KJV)8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.faith and knowledge are linked as this passage reveals. It is also the same patern as Jesus' prayers.
Quote (2besee @ July 19 2013,06:24) Kerwin,
My Jerusalem bible – I love it.
It has each Bible chapter with a heading title and does not have double columns but single, so it's more like a book and thick.
It has the name Yahweh all through the Old Testament.
It was translated word for word from the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic rather than from the Latin vulgate.Regarding the book of wisdom, this is from wikipedia:
Personification of Wisdom
There are found in the Book of Wisdom and other books of the wisdom literature to Wisdom as a personification with divine attributes.
In chapter seven, Wisdom is said to be “the fashioner of all things” (v. 22). Because she fashions all things, is “an associate in his [God’s] works” (8:4), and is a “pure emanation of the glory of the Almighty” (7:25), Wisdom is eternal and one in being (consubstantial) with the Father. Because Wisdom is God’s “creative agent”, she must be intimately identified with God himself.
It has been claimed that the most definite indication that personified Wisdom refers to the Messiah is the alleged paraphrasing of Wis 7:26 in Heb 1:3a. Wis 7:26 says that “she is a reflection of eternal light, a spotless mirror of the working of God, and an image of his goodness.” The author of Hebrews says of Christ: “He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power.”
Wisdom 9:17 “Who has learned your counsel, unless you have given wisdom and sent your holy spirit from on high?”. The next verse says that salvation is an act of Wisdom. In Christianity salvation is an activity reserved for God, but it is here given to Wisdom, thus identifying them with one another.
Wisdom 2
Some may see the second chapter of the Book of Wisdom (Wisdom 2) as building up to a prophecy of Christ’s passion. First the ungodly men are described (Wis 1:16-2:9), followed by their plotting against the righteous man (2:10-20). The passage describes in detail the treatment of Jesus by the Jewish authorities. The first indication for some that it is a prophecy of the Messiah is in verse 11. Where the RSV reads “weak”, the Greek has “achreston” (ἄχρηστον), which some may claim is a play on the title Christos (Χριστός). Verse 12 is a quote of the LXX version of Is 3:10; Is 3:10 was allegedly taken to refer to Jesus in the 1st-century Epistle of Barnabas.
On the whole, this treatment of the suffering of the righteous man is heavily indebted to Isaiah; particularly the fourth Suffering Servant song (Is 52:13-53:12). Verse 13 uses pais (παῖς), child or servant, from Is 52:13. Verse 15 says his very sight is a burden, referencing Is 53:2. In verse 16 he calls God his father, which is thought to be based on a poor understanding of pais as in Is 52:13. Verse 18 is comparable to Is 42:1. Verse 19 makes reference to Is 53:7. A final reference to the Messiah is the righteous man’s “shameful death” in verse 20. This death has been identified with Jesus’ death on a cross, a cursed death hanging on a tree.
In the realm of Bible criticism and theology, all sorts of opinions are held by all sorts of persons, whether ordinary persons or university professors. Some opine that the Gospel of Matthew may contain allusions to the Wisdom of Solomon in the structuring of Matthew's Passion Narrative. Supposed parallels between Wisdom and Matthew include the theme of testing, and the mocking of a servant of God's claim to be protected by God. Matthew's gospel teaches that Jesus is the suffering servant of God.
As another example of the myriad opinions and interpretations of the Bible: while some think that Wis 2:17-18, “Let us see if his words are true, and let us test what will happen at the end of his life; for if the righteous man is God’s son, he will help him, and will deliver him from the hand of his adversaries,” was an influence on Mt 27:43, “He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him; for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” it is more natural to see it as a reference to Ps 22:8 “He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.”
2besee,I doubt it is God's Word but it is Jewish literature and gives us an idea how the Jews at the time thought and communicated.
Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2013,04:42) Quote (kerwin @ July 18 2013,11:12) T, James 1:6-7
King James Version (KJV)6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.Do you thing Jesus did not ask in faith?
kYOU ARE MIXING FAITH WITH A SIMPLE REQUEST ,BUT CHRIST KNEW THE ANSWER BEFORE HE ASK ;BUT YOU MIST IT ,THINK
T,He did know that he must suffer and die.
Jesus asked if God would take the cup from him so he did not know whether God would or not.
He did know God had the power to do so and he did know God does all that is right.
T, you said:
Quote RIGHTEOUS IS A PERSON THAT WALKS IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF GODS WORDS AND APPLY THEM IN HIS LIFE ,AND HE DOES THAT BY THE BELIEVE THAT HE WILL BE APPROVED BY GOD ,BUT HE DOES NOT KNOW GOD ,ONLY THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES DOES HE KNOW HIM SO HE WALK IN FAITH UNTIL THE DAY THAT GOD WILL REVEL HIMSELF TO HIM THROUGH THAT PERSON RESURRECTION So, according to you, a person cannot KNOW God until AFTER he dies?
Not so.
According to scriptures, Jesus knew God, and Jesus' request is that people KNOW God.
Enoch, Noah, Abraham and others WALKED WITH GOD.You also say that people can only know (about) God through the scriptures.
Not so.
Not only through scriptures – but also through having a personal relationship with God and talking to God and listening.Why do you doubt that we can know God now?
God draws to him whom he chooses.
The thing that can come in between this (for those that are drawn) is continuance in sin/disobedience/drawing away from God, etc.
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