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Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 21 2013,06:51) Yeah, but ARE you saying that the Word CREATED flesh?
Mike,These are the words I would speak to express the results of the Word being made flesh and dwelling among us. grammarly.com shows I am using good grammar.
The Word made flesh dwelt among us full of grace and truth with the glory we beheld, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father.
I do perceive make and created as being synonyms.
Quote (terraricca @ June 21 2013,09:07) Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2013,23:20) T, Quote God is not flesh,and he his not his own words but stands to backup his own words , God's Word is not flesh by nature so how is it made flesh?
Kbecause THE WORD OF GOD ” is the name of the son of God ,named Christ ,and Jesus but you do not believe it this as been discussed with you for years ,
T,Should I use Mike's words to Abe in a different thread to ask if you if you believe every time you see the words “the Word” you believe it is speaking of Jesus?
Quote (kerwin @ June 21 2013,15:12) Quote (terraricca @ June 21 2013,09:07) Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2013,23:20) T, Quote God is not flesh,and he his not his own words but stands to backup his own words , God's Word is not flesh by nature so how is it made flesh?
Kbecause THE WORD OF GOD ” is the name of the son of God ,named Christ ,and Jesus but you do not believe it this as been discussed with you for years ,
T,Should I use Mike's words to Abe in a different thread to ask if you if you believe every time you see the words “the Word” you believe it is speaking of Jesus?
KJn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.in this verses it does not talk about spoken or written words ,because NO ONE SAYS THAT HIS SPOKEN WORDS ARE “WITH HIM” IN THE BEGINNING ,BECAUSE IT WOULD IMPLY THAT BEFORE THE BEGINNING HE WOULD NOT HAVE ANY SPEECH OR WRITTEN ABILITIES ,
Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
in this verse John is talking about Christ ,so THE WORD must be the same person and it make the words of Christ true ,when he says that he came down from the father ,and that he as to return to the father after his resurrection
this is a clear cut,BUT IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THAT CHRIST CAME DOWN FROM THE FATHER AND SO EXISTED PRIOR OF HIS COMING IN THE FLESH ,IT IS THIS THAT MAKE YOU CHANGE THE SCRIPTURES INTO YOUR OWN BELIEVE AWAY FROM SCRIPTURES TRUTH,
Quote (kerwin @ June 21 2013,03:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 21 2013,06:51) Yeah, but ARE you saying that the Word CREATED flesh?
Mike,These are the words I would speak to express the results of the Word being made flesh and dwelling among us. grammarly.com shows I am using good grammar.
The Word made flesh dwelt among us full of grace and truth with the glory we beheld, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father.
I do perceive make and created as being synonyms.
Kerwin,There are many things wrong with your post. First of all, grammerly.com did NOT say you were using good grammer. I checked, remember? It gave you 67%. It's like they gave you a D on your assignment. And a D is a passing grade……. but just barely.
Secondly, “The Word made flesh dwelt among us” INSISTS that you are using the words “Word-Made-Flesh” as a title or name of some entity.
If you were in fact trying to say that the Word CREATED flesh, you would still need the conjunction “and” that is in the Greek text. Compare:
The Word CREATED flesh AND dwelt among us.
If you remove the conjunction, then the ONLY way it could be understood is as a title, like: The chicken-fried-steak dwelt among us.
So even after you've REMOVED an important conjunction from the Greek text, you are STILL not making your sentence say what you claim it says. Now, speaking of removing the conjunction, compare:
1. Mike ate AND drank.
2. Mike ate drank.
Do you really expect anyone in their right mind to believe that these two sentences make equal sense, and that grammerly.com would give you a passing grade for the latter one? Do you think a sentence says the same thing with or without the conjunction “and”?
Tell you what……….. IF and WHEN you decide to put the conjunction AND back into the Greek text where it belongs, and come to an understanding that INCLUDES that conjunction, let me know and we can discuss it further. As it stands, I really have no business feigning a bona fide scriptural discussion with a man who has changed the wording of the text to the point that it is no longer even a scripture.
not yet done?
kerwin,
why dont you make your own version and put in john 1.1 that the word is the HS. in that way, you can have basis. lol
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2013,10:22) Quote (kerwin @ June 16 2013,22:14) Mike, It is a change of English so it becomes “the Word made flesh lived among us…”.
Nonsense, Kerwin. Nothing but pure, unadulterated nonsense.The word AND is in the Greek text. Therefore, any understanding you come up with MUST include the word AND.
You can't just REMOVE a very important conjunction from the Greek text because that conjunction makes it harder for you to “explain away” the teaching of John 1:14.
Who do you think you are to REMOVE WORDS from the inspired scriptures – just to suit your own desires?
Shame on you! If you must change the scriptures for your understanding to be achieved, then you – WITHOUT A DOUBT – have the WRONG understanding.
jammin will be so proud of you for this one! The “student” has finally written a Bible of his own – just like jammin's been asking you to do!
hehehe.is that your first version kerwin? lol
the word made flesh lived among us…(kerwin's version, the bible with cult doctrine)
Hi All,
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
1 Corinthians 11:7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
The light of the gospel is the fact that a man, just like us, was not only resurrected from the dead, but was given eternal life. The glory that existed before time began, has nothing to do with a pre-existing being that warped into Mary's womb, like a pagan god, but has everything to do with the PLAN that God had in the beginning to PERFECT man, so he would BECOME the image of God.
Ecclesiastes 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end.
Titus 1: 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began
Hebrews 5: 5 So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.” 6 As He also says in another place: “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek”; 7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,”
The WORD that existed that was made flesh, was the promise that God would bring eternal life unto man.
Revelation 19:13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
Yeshua means God is Salvation!
Acts 13:32 “We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers 33 he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: ” 'You are my Son; today I have become your Father. ' 34 The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words: ” 'I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.'
Hebrews 7:28 For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.
The GLORY of Christ has nothing to do with pre-existing, it has everything to do with the fact that he was MADE into a perfect man through God's plan, of which existed before the world was, and was told unto David and the prophets.
I want to talk about Hebrews 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,
What does “in the days of his flesh” mean? I think I might understand it different than most.
Hebrews 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
would corruptible flesh be the same as incorruptible flesh? Man feels like he is bound in chains in his corruptible flesh, however in incorruptible flesh one would feel free.
In the days of Jesus in his corruptible flesh he too felt the temptation and bondage as we do today. The Spirit God gave Jesus kept him strong to where he only served God, never giving in and serving the temptation brought onto him by the carnal nature he was born with.
Paul talks about a struggle between his mind wanting him to serve God, but his body wanting him to serve himself.
Romans 7:8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God–through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
Jesus had all the temptation of sinful flesh but never sinned, thus making him in the likeness of sinful flesh.
Acts 2:30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,[/u] 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
According to the FLESH Christ sits on the throne! The flesh of Jesus did not decay after he died, it received immortality.
Through God's Spirit poured onto Jesus He was able to prove that FLESH can exist without sin!
How better is flesh that is not drawn to sin because death does not exist?
1 Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 55 “O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 22 2013,07:12) Quote (kerwin @ June 21 2013,03:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 21 2013,06:51) Yeah, but ARE you saying that the Word CREATED flesh?
Mike,These are the words I would speak to express the results of the Word being made flesh and dwelling among us. grammarly.com shows I am using good grammar.
The Word made flesh dwelt among us full of grace and truth with the glory we beheld, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father.
I do perceive make and created as being synonyms.
Kerwin,There are many things wrong with your post. First of all, grammerly.com did NOT say you were using good grammer. I checked, remember? It gave you 67%. It's like they gave you a D on your assignment. And a D is a passing grade……. but just barely.
Secondly, “The Word made flesh dwelt among us” INSISTS that you are using the words “Word-Made-Flesh” as a title or name of some entity.
If you were in fact trying to say that the Word CREATED flesh, you would still need the conjunction “and” that is in the Greek text. Compare:
The Word CREATED flesh AND dwelt among us.
If you remove the conjunction, then the ONLY way it could be understood is as a title, like: The chicken-fried-steak dwelt among us.
So even after you've REMOVED an important conjunction from the Greek text, you are STILL not making your sentence say what you claim it says. Now, speaking of removing the conjunction, compare:
1. Mike ate AND drank.
2. Mike ate drank.
Do you really expect anyone in their right mind to believe that these two sentences make equal sense, and that grammerly.com would give you a passing grade for the latter one? Do you think a sentence says the same thing with or without the conjunction “and”?
Tell you what……….. IF and WHEN you decide to put the conjunction AND back into the Greek text where it belongs, and come to an understanding that INCLUDES that conjunction, let me know and we can discuss it further. As it stands, I really have no business feigning a bona fide scriptural discussion with a man who has changed the wording of the text to the point that it is no longer even a scripture.
Mike,You should check that(the whole sentence) again as I do mangle my English from time to time and may have corrected it. grammerly.com may be reading it as a title though I doubt it is. I believe it is you not me that is incorrectly understanding English but I only speak it fluently and am not an expert.
Quote (jammin @ June 22 2013,07:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2013,10:22) Quote (kerwin @ June 16 2013,22:14) Mike, It is a change of English so it becomes “the Word made flesh lived among us…”.
Nonsense, Kerwin. Nothing but pure, unadulterated nonsense.The word AND is in the Greek text. Therefore, any understanding you come up with MUST include the word AND.
You can't just REMOVE a very important conjunction from the Greek text because that conjunction makes it harder for you to “explain away” the teaching of John 1:14.
Who do you think you are to REMOVE WORDS from the inspired scriptures – just to suit your own desires?
Shame on you! If you must change the scriptures for your understanding to be achieved, then you – WITHOUT A DOUBT – have the WRONG understanding.
jammin will be so proud of you for this one! The “student” has finally written a Bible of his own – just like jammin's been asking you to do!
hehehe.is that your first version kerwin? lol
the word made flesh lived among us…(kerwin's version, the bible with cult doctrine)
Jammin,I believe the Word means the Word.
You do not.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 22 2013,18:21) I want to talk about Hebrews 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, What does “in the days of his flesh” mean? I think I might understand it different than most.
Hebrews 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
would corruptible flesh be the same as incorruptible flesh? Man feels like he is bound in chains in his corruptible flesh, however in incorruptible flesh one would feel free.
In the days of Jesus in his corruptible flesh he too felt the temptation and bondage as we do today. The Spirit God gave Jesus kept him strong to where he only served God, never giving in and serving the temptation brought onto him by the carnal nature he was born with.
Paul talks about a struggle between his mind wanting him to serve God, but his body wanting him to serve himself.
Romans 7:8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God–through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
Jesus had all the temptation of sinful flesh but never sinned, thus making him in the likeness of sinful flesh.
Acts 2:30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,[/u] 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
According to the FLESH Christ sits on the throne! The flesh of Jesus did not decay after he died, it received immortality.
Through God's Spirit poured onto Jesus He was able to prove that FLESH can exist without sin!
How better is flesh that is not drawn to sin because death does not exist?
1 Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 55 “O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
Jodi Lee……..Good to hear from you again, hope you and your husband and kids are all doing fine. I missed you posts, they were alway in depth posts, and I also agree with your posts on the last page. You are absolute right a flesh body can have eternal life and Jesus is living proof of that, he is eternal in that flesh body for ever alive and that body was resurrected to live forever.Right on, sis, we have some new members I thank you will like here now , 2besee, and Abe, seem to have an excellent scriptural understanding, I believe you remember Kerwin also. It's real good to hear from you because we do share many of the same view points.
Peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (kerwin @ June 22 2013,19:36) Quote (jammin @ June 22 2013,07:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2013,10:22) Quote (kerwin @ June 16 2013,22:14) Mike, It is a change of English so it becomes “the Word made flesh lived among us…”.
Nonsense, Kerwin. Nothing but pure, unadulterated nonsense.The word AND is in the Greek text. Therefore, any understanding you come up with MUST include the word AND.
You can't just REMOVE a very important conjunction from the Greek text because that conjunction makes it harder for you to “explain away” the teaching of John 1:14.
Who do you think you are to REMOVE WORDS from the inspired scriptures – just to suit your own desires?
Shame on you! If you must change the scriptures for your understanding to be achieved, then you – WITHOUT A DOUBT – have the WRONG understanding.
jammin will be so proud of you for this one! The “student” has finally written a Bible of his own – just like jammin's been asking you to do!
hehehe.is that your first version kerwin? lol
the word made flesh lived among us…(kerwin's version, the bible with cult doctrine)
Jammin,I believe the Word means the Word.
You do not.
what you are saying is not the whole truth.
you should also believe that the WORD is Christ.
it is a title/name of Christ.
rev 19.13
Revelation 19:13
New Life Version (NLV)
13 The coat He wears has been put in blood. His name is The Word of God.John 1:1
New Life Version (NLV)
Christ Lived Before the World Was Made1 The Word (Christ) was in the beginning. The Word was with God. The Word was God.
if you dont believe that then you can start printing your own version.
loldo not be a hard headed boy.
that is a word for word in the bible and you should believe that.Quote (jammin @ June 23 2013,06:46) Quote (kerwin @ June 22 2013,19:36) Quote (jammin @ June 22 2013,07:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2013,10:22) Quote (kerwin @ June 16 2013,22:14) Mike, It is a change of English so it becomes “the Word made flesh lived among us…”.
Nonsense, Kerwin. Nothing but pure, unadulterated nonsense.The word AND is in the Greek text. Therefore, any understanding you come up with MUST include the word AND.
You can't just REMOVE a very important conjunction from the Greek text because that conjunction makes it harder for you to “explain away” the teaching of John 1:14.
Who do you think you are to REMOVE WORDS from the inspired scriptures – just to suit your own desires?
Shame on you! If you must change the scriptures for your understanding to be achieved, then you – WITHOUT A DOUBT – have the WRONG understanding.
jammin will be so proud of you for this one! The “student” has finally written a Bible of his own – just like jammin's been asking you to do!
hehehe.is that your first version kerwin? lol
the word made flesh lived among us…(kerwin's version, the bible with cult doctrine)
Jammin,I believe the Word means the Word.
You do not.
what you are saying is not the whole truth.
you should also believe that the WORD is Christ.
it is a title/name of Christ.
rev 19.13
Revelation 19:13
New Life Version (NLV)
13 The coat He wears has been put in blood. His name is The Word of God.John 1:1
New Life Version (NLV)
Christ Lived Before the World Was Made1 The Word (Christ) was in the beginning. The Word was with God. The Word was God.
if you dont believe that then you can start printing your own version.
loldo not be a hard headed boy.
that is a word for word in the bible and you should believe that.
Jammin,Why do you need to explain why the Word does not mean the Word.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 21 2013,23:55) Hebrews 5:7
who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications…..
To all those who believe Jesus is STILL a human being in heaven: What does the writer of Hebrews mean by “in the days of his flesh”?According to you guys, Jesus continues to be “in the days of his flesh”, right? So what do those words mean to you?
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 21 2013,23:55) The GLORY of Christ has nothing to do with pre-existing, it has everything to do with the fact that he was MADE into a perfect man through God's plan, of which existed before the world was, and was told unto David and the prophets.
John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.But Jodi, Jesus had glory alongside his God before the world was created through him.
Quote (kerwin @ June 22 2013,02:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 22 2013,07:12) Quote (kerwin @ June 21 2013,03:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 21 2013,06:51) Yeah, but ARE you saying that the Word CREATED flesh?
Mike,These are the words I would speak to express the results of the Word being made flesh and dwelling among us. grammarly.com shows I am using good grammar.
The Word made flesh dwelt among us full of grace and truth with the glory we beheld, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father.
I do perceive make and created as being synonyms.
Kerwin,There are many things wrong with your post. First of all, grammerly.com did NOT say you were using good grammer. I checked, remember? It gave you 67%. It's like they gave you a D on your assignment. And a D is a passing grade……. but just barely.
Secondly, “The Word made flesh dwelt among us” INSISTS that you are using the words “Word-Made-Flesh” as a title or name of some entity.
If you were in fact trying to say that the Word CREATED flesh, you would still need the conjunction “and” that is in the Greek text. Compare:
The Word CREATED flesh AND dwelt among us.
If you remove the conjunction, then the ONLY way it could be understood is as a title, like: The chicken-fried-steak dwelt among us.
So even after you've REMOVED an important conjunction from the Greek text, you are STILL not making your sentence say what you claim it says. Now, speaking of removing the conjunction, compare:
1. Mike ate AND drank.
2. Mike ate drank.
Do you really expect anyone in their right mind to believe that these two sentences make equal sense, and that grammerly.com would give you a passing grade for the latter one? Do you think a sentence says the same thing with or without the conjunction “and”?
Tell you what……….. IF and WHEN you decide to put the conjunction AND back into the Greek text where it belongs, and come to an understanding that INCLUDES that conjunction, let me know and we can discuss it further. As it stands, I really have no business feigning a bona fide scriptural discussion with a man who has changed the wording of the text to the point that it is no longer even a scripture.
Mike,You should check that(the whole sentence) again as I do mangle my English from time to time and may have corrected it. grammerly.com may be reading it as a title though I doubt it is. I believe it is you not me that is incorrectly understanding English but I only speak it fluently and am not an expert.
Okay Kerwin,Here we go AGAIN………………..
1. The chicken fried steak dwelt among us.
2. The chicken fried steak AND dwelt among us.
Can you see how the first sentence describes a thing that has the TITLE “chicken-fried-steak”, and how that thing dwelt among us?
Can you see how the second sentence describes a chicken that actually fried up some steak, and ALSO dwelt among us?
Are you seriously blind to the difference between these two sentences?
Like I said, WHEN you come up with an understanding that actually INCLUDES the conjunction “and” – which IS in the Greek text……. I'll be willing to discuss it further.
Quote (kerwin @ June 22 2013,02:36) Jammin, I believe the Word means the Word.
You do not.
That is an unfair and untrue statement, Kerwin.jammin and I both believe that the word “Word” refers to the Word of God. We believe it refers to this particular Word of God:
Revelation 19:13
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.The entire first chapter of John's gospel makes it abundantly clear that John was speaking about the same exact Word of God when he wrote John 1 as when he wrote 1 John 1:1 and Revelation 19:13.
We accept this easy teaching, while you go out of your way to PRETEND you can't see it.
BTW, your flippant remark masks your true belief. If you were to tell it truthfully, your comment to jammin would have been, “I believe the Word means the Holy Spirit Son of God. You do not.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 22 2013,01:21) I want to talk about Hebrews 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, What does “in the days of his flesh” mean? I think I might understand it different than most.
Acts 2:30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
According to the FLESH Christ sits on the throne!
Hi Jodi,Jesus was of the seed of David ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. He does not sit on the throne ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. In fact, Paul is also the one who told us the last Adam became a life-giving SPIRIT. (1 Cor 15:45) It was also Paul who told us that flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor 15:50) And Jesus himself told us that flesh can neither see, nor enter the kingdom of heaven. (John 3:3-7)
I am happy to see that you realize there is something amiss between your belief that Jesus is still flesh in heaven, and the words of Hebrews 5:7. I made my previous post about this verse before even reading your second post – so it is interesting to me that we were both thinking, “something's not right here”.
And while I appreciate your attempt to “explain 5:7 away”, you didn't really do it. Nothing in your second post explains the words “in the days of his flesh”.
Perhaps this one scripture will be the turning point for you and the others. Perhaps this one scripture will be enough for you guys to realize that Jesus is not still a flesh being dwelling in the spiritual realm of heaven.
Anyway, I know that you come and go on this site – never sticking around for too long. But in the off chance that you will return to read these responses, I offer you this scripturally based research I painstakingly did to show how the things John said about “the Word” in John 1 are also ALL said about “Jesus” elsewhere in scripture. Give it some consideration……………
The italicized words below are things said about “the Word” in John 1. The scriptures listed in parenthesis identify some of the places in scripture where those same exact things are said about Jesus.
1. And the Word was a god: (Is 9:6, Heb 1:8-9, etc.)
2. He was with God in the beginning: (John 17:5)
3. All things were made through him: (Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, Heb 1:2)
4. In him was life, and that life was the light of men: (John 5:26, John 8:12)
5. The light shines in the darkness: (Matthew 4:16; John 3:19; 2 Corinthians 4:6)
6. John the Baptist came as a witness to testify concerning that light: (John 1:29-34; 3:26; 5:32-36)
7. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world: (Isaiah 42:6-7; John 3:19, 9:5, 12:35-36, 46; Luke 1:78-79)
8. Though he was in the world, the world did not recognize him: (Isaiah 53:3, John 4:10, Acts 13:27, John 12:37-38, 1 John 3:1)
9. He came to that which was his own: (Col 1:16; Matt 11:27; John 3:35, 13:3, 16:15; Eph 1:10; Heb 1:2)
10. but his own did not receive him: (Luke 9:53; John 5:43; Acts 13:46)
11. to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God: (Acts 4:12; John 3:14-16; Gal 3:26; Heb 2:10; Eph 1:5)
12. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us: (1 John 1:1-2, 4:2; Phil 2:6-7; Rom 8:3; Gal 4:4-5)
13. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten: (John 1:18, 3:16-18; 1 John 4:9)
14. who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.: (John 1:16, 14:6; Luke 2:40; Romans 1:5)
15. John testified concerning him.: (Mark 1:7-8; John 1:32, 34; John 3:26; John 5:32-33; John 10:41)
16. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”: (John 1:29-30; John 3:28,30; Micah 5:2; Acts 19:4)
Jodi, I truly hope you look those scriptures up, and realize how most of them could ONLY be said about Jesus – because no one else in scripture would fit. And as you come to this realization, remember that all these things are said about the one John called “the Word” in John 1, 1 John 1:1, and Rev 19:13. The Word is so obviously Jesus that it is beyond me how some people are unable to see it.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 23 2013,23:44) Quote (kerwin @ June 22 2013,02:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 22 2013,07:12) Quote (kerwin @ June 21 2013,03:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 21 2013,06:51) Yeah, but ARE you saying that the Word CREATED flesh?
Mike,These are the words I would speak to express the results of the Word being made flesh and dwelling among us. grammarly.com shows I am using good grammar.
The Word made flesh dwelt among us full of grace and truth with the glory we beheld, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father.
I do perceive make and created as being synonyms.
Kerwin,There are many things wrong with your post. First of all, grammerly.com did NOT say you were using good grammer. I checked, remember? It gave you 67%. It's like they gave you a D on your assignment. And a D is a passing grade……. but just barely.
Secondly, “The Word made flesh dwelt among us” INSISTS that you are using the words “Word-Made-Flesh” as a title or name of some entity.
If you were in fact trying to say that the Word CREATED flesh, you would still need the conjunction “and” that is in the Greek text. Compare:
The Word CREATED flesh AND dwelt among us.
If you remove the conjunction, then the ONLY way it could be understood is as a title, like: The chicken-fried-steak dwelt among us.
So even after you've REMOVED an important conjunction from the Greek text, you are STILL not making your sentence say what you claim it says. Now, speaking of removing the conjunction, compare:
1. Mike ate AND drank.
2. Mike ate drank.
Do you really expect anyone in their right mind to believe that these two sentences make equal sense, and that grammerly.com would give you a passing grade for the latter one? Do you think a sentence says the same thing with or without the conjunction “and”?
Tell you what……….. IF and WHEN you decide to put the conjunction AND back into the Greek text where it belongs, and come to an understanding that INCLUDES that conjunction, let me know and we can discuss it further. As it stands, I really have no business feigning a bona fide scriptural discussion with a man who has changed the wording of the text to the point that it is no longer even a scripture.
Mike,You should check that(the whole sentence) again as I do mangle my English from time to time and may have corrected it. grammerly.com may be reading it as a title though I doubt it is. I believe it is you not me that is incorrectly understanding English but I only speak it fluently and am not an expert.
Okay Kerwin,Here we go AGAIN………………..
1. The chicken fried steak dwelt among us.
2. The chicken fried steak AND dwelt among us.
Can you see how the first sentence describes a thing that has the TITLE “chicken-fried-steak”, and how that thing dwelt among us?
Can you see how the second sentence describes a chicken that actually fried up some steak, and ALSO dwelt among us?
Are you seriously blind to the difference between these two sentences?
Like I said, WHEN you come up with an understanding that actually INCLUDES the conjunction “and” – which IS in the Greek text……. I'll be willing to discuss it further.
Mike,I still say “the Word made flesh” when speaking of the Word that was made flesh after it was made.
The chicken was fried steak and lived among us.
The chicken fried steak lived among us.The first is what was done to/by to the chicken and the second describes the chicken in the same way the boy with the bouncing ball describes the boy.
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