JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[jammin]

kerwin,

you should tell that to yourself. you are a hardheaded boy.
you dont want GOD's word.
you want doctrine from men.

no scholars will agree to you. no version will agree to you.

the only thing you can do is create your own bible boy.

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ May 21 2013,09:36)

kerwin, you should tell that to yourself. you are a hardheaded boy. you dont want GOD's word. you want doctrine from men. no scholars will agree to you. no version will agree to you. the only thing you can do is create your own bible boy.

Jammin,

My doctrine is that each and every one of us can and will stop sinning by the power of God through faith in Jesus Anointed. Men do not find that pleasing to their ears.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,18:01)

Your problem is that ignorant and corrupt men have found the truth hard to understand and thus made the Spirit a person instead of the attribute of God he is.  This teaching you hold onto breaks Scripture.

Kerwin…….This is a true statement, People just do not understand what a Spiirt IS, a Spirit produces “IT'S” paticular type or Kind it is, in the persons they are “IN”. A Spirt is not a Person but indeed an atribute that influences the Bodies they are in. IMO

As it says, if the “spirit” of Him (God) that raised up Jesus from the dead be in you, “he” shall “also” quicken, (bring to life), Your Mortal, (dead), Body.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2013,19:45)

Quote (jammin @ May 21 2013,09:36) kerwin, you should tell that to yourself. you are a hardheaded boy. you dont want GOD's word. you want doctrine from men. no scholars will agree to you. no version will agree to you. the only thing you can do is create your own bible boy. Jammin, My doctrine is that each and every one of us can and will stop sinning by the power of God through faith in Jesus Anointed.  Men do not find that pleasing to their ears.

you should make your own bible

that could help you defend your fantasies

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,17:45)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,04:57) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,15:49) 1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Kerwin, Is the spirit of a man the son of that man? Mike, Are you aware you are asking if the relationship of a man's spirit to a man is in some aspect the same as a son to his father?

Please answer the question, Kerwin.

When you speak about a man and his father, you are speaking about TWO individual people with minds and wills of their own.

Is that an accurate comparison to a man and HIS OWN spirit?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ May 19 2013,21:32)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 20 2013,10:39) Hebrews 1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son…….. jammin, who is the “God” that spoke through prophets in the past, and through His Son in “these last days”? answer my question first before i can answer yours. you are changing the topic boy. LOL it is very obvious. i know you cant read that GOD is not everywhere.

First, there is no scripture that says God is everywhere all the time.  You keep saying “everywhere”, but the word “omnipresent” means a person is everywhere ALL THE TIME.  So say it right, okay?

Second, common sense should tell you that if God was truly everywhere all the time, then everything is made of God.  For example, if God is taking up every single bit of space that YOU take up (since you say He's EVERYWHERE all the time), then YOU must actually BE God.

And if you are NOT God, then there is a certain amount of space in the universe that YOU take up and God DOESN'T take up.  

And if there is even one inch in the universe that is taken up by YOU and NOT God, the God cannot literally be EVERYWHERE.

Listen, you have not produced a verse that says God is “everywhere all the time”.  You have produced verses that many people use to CLAIM God is everywhere all the time, but those verse really don't claim such a thing.

If you want to keep thinking God is everywhere all the time, then go for it.  As for me, the MANY scriptures that say God dwells in heaven, and the MANY scriptures that say beings “come to” and “go from” God, are enough for me to know He is NOT literally everywhere all the time.  (You cannot possibly “go TO”, or “leave FROM” someone who is everywhere you came from, everywhere you are, and everywhere you're going to be.)

So add those common sense logics to the one I mentioned above (about the space YOU take up in the universe), and you too will come to realize that “omnipresence” is just another one of those ideas that have been “grandfathered in” to our current society.  There is no scriptural grounds to believe it, though.  And there is much scriptural grounds to disbelieve it.

Now, we are DONE with the omnipresent thing.  (Don't think I forgot WHY we were talking about it in the first place, because I didn't.  A long time ago, you posted a list where you were trying to list things in which Jesus was equal to his and our God.  And I SCRIPTURALLY shot down each thing on the list.  And the only thing on the list that you even had a chance of arguing over was this omnipresence thing.  But listen up………… even if you were to prove that GOD is omnipresent, you would still have to prove the same about Jesus.  And naturally, you'll list the verse where Jesus says, “Whenever two or more are gathered in my name, I'll be there too.”  But once again, being able to spiritually be in 1000 places at once is not the same as being in EVERY place ALL THE TIME.  Notice Jesus said, “WHENEVER two or more are gathered in my name……..”.  He did not say, “I am ALWAYS there with EVERYONE, whether or not two or more are gathered in my name”, right?)

So it's time we move on from this discussion and start discussing this other point.  I want to know which “God” spoke through the prophets in the past, and through His prophet Jesus in these last days.

What is your answer?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,01:01)

Jesus cannot be the Son mentioned in John 1:18 as that causes John 1:18 to come into conflict with 1 Corinthians 2:11.

No it doesn't.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2013,05:00)

Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,17:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,04:57) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,15:49) 1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Kerwin, Is the spirit of a man the son of that man? Mike, Are you aware you are asking if the relationship of a man's spirit to a man is in some aspect the same as a son to his father? Please answer the question, Kerwin. When you speak about a man and his father, you are speaking about TWO individual people with minds and wills of their own. Is that an accurate comparison to a man and HIS OWN spirit?

Mike,

No! That is not. The Jews, at least the Hellenistic ones, had a tradition of calling God's attributes his children. This is seen in the Wisdom writings. These children are not individual people with minds of their own though they may have that seeming at times. That seeming has led corrupt and ignorant people to come up with the tenet that the Spirit is a person.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2013,05:20)

Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2013,01:01) Jesus cannot be the Son mentioned in John 1:18 as that causes John 1:18 to come into conflict with 1 Corinthians 2:11. No it doesn't.

Mike,

If you cannot see that either Jesus or the Spirit are the primary one that knows the things of God then I cannot show you.  

The most reasonable hierarchy is the Spirit is the only one that knows the things of God, the Spirit is the one that reveals them to Jesus, Jesus reveals them to believers by the Spirit.  

I have not heard anything more reasonable.

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ May 22 2013,04:55)

Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2013,19:45) Quote (jammin @ May 21 2013,09:36) kerwin, you should tell that to yourself. you are a hardheaded boy. you dont want GOD's word. you want doctrine from men. no scholars will agree to you. no version will agree to you. the only thing you can do is create your own bible boy. Jammin, My doctrine is that each and every one of us can and will stop sinning by the power of God through faith in Jesus Anointed.  Men do not find that pleasing to their ears. you should make your own bible that could help you defend your fantasies

Jammin,

I am not called to translate God's word in whole.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2013,10:19)

Quote (jammin @ May 19 2013,21:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 20 2013,10:39) Hebrews 1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son…….. jammin, who is the “God” that spoke through prophets in the past, and through His Son in “these last days”? answer my question first before i can answer yours. you are changing the topic boy. LOL it is very obvious. i know you cant read that GOD is not everywhere. First, there is no scripture that says God is everywhere all the time.  You keep saying “everywhere”, but the word “omnipresent” means a person is everywhere ALL THE TIME.  So say it right, okay? Second, common sense should tell you that if God was truly everywhere all the time, then everything is made of God.  For example, if God is taking up every single bit of space that YOU take up (since you say He's EVERYWHERE all the time), then YOU must actually BE God. And if you are NOT God, then there is a certain amount of space in the universe that YOU take up and God DOESN'T take up.   And if there is even one inch in the universe that is taken up by YOU and NOT God, the God cannot literally be EVERYWHERE. Listen, you have not produced a verse that says God is “everywhere all the time”.  You have produced verses that many people use to CLAIM God is everywhere all the time, but those verse really don't claim such a thing. If you want to keep thinking God is everywhere all the time, then go for it.  As for me, the MANY scriptures that say God dwells in heaven, and the MANY scriptures that say beings “come to” and “go from” God, are enough for me to know He is NOT literally everywhere all the time.  (You cannot possibly “go TO”, or “leave FROM” someone who is everywhere you came from, everywhere you are, and everywhere you're going to be.) So add those common sense logics to the one I mentioned above (about the space YOU take up in the universe), and you too will come to realize that “omnipresence” is just another one of those ideas that have been “grandfathered in” to our current society.  There is no scriptural grounds to believe it, though.  And there is much scriptural grounds to disbelieve it. Now, we are DONE with the omnipresent thing.  (Don't think I forgot WHY we were talking about it in the first place, because I didn't.  A long time ago, you posted a list where you were trying to list things in which Jesus was equal to his and our God.  And I SCRIPTURALLY shot down each thing on the list.  And the only thing on the list that you even had a chance of arguing over was this omnipresence thing.  But listen up………… even if you were to prove that GOD is omnipresent, you would still have to prove the same about Jesus.  And naturally, you'll list the verse where Jesus says, “Whenever two or more are gathered in my name, I'll be there too.”  But once again, being able to spiritually be in 1000 places at once is not the same as being in EVERY place ALL THE TIME.  Notice Jesus said, “WHENEVER two or more are gathered in my name……..”.  He did not say, “I am ALWAYS there with EVERYONE, whether or not two or more are gathered in my name”, right?) So it's time we move on from this discussion and start discussing this other point.  I want to know which “God” spoke through the prophets in the past, and through His prophet Jesus in these last days. What is your answer?

mike said:
First, there is no scripture that says God is everywhere

the bible said:
“Where can I go from Your Spirit? Where can I flee from Your presence? If I go up to the heavens, You are there; if I make my bed in the depths, You are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there Your hand will guide me, Your right hand will hold me fast” (Psalm 139:7–10).

‘Am I a God near at hand,' says the Lord, ‘and not a God afar off? Can anyone hide himself in secret places, so I shall not see him?' . . . ‘do I not fill heaven and earth?' says the Lord? (Jeremiah 23:23,24).

Ieremias 23:23

23 putasne Deus e vicino ego sum dicit Dominus et non Deus de longe

do you understand that?

maybe you need eyeglasses before you read those verses.
GOD is everywhere. the bible said that

believe it or not.,

you can make your own bible if you want.LOL

stop sniffing freon. it is bad for your health

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ May 22 2013,10:31)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2013,05:00) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,17:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,04:57) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,15:49) 1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Kerwin, Is the spirit of a man the son of that man? Mike, Are you aware you are asking if the relationship of a man's spirit to a man is in some aspect the same as a son to his father? Please answer the question, Kerwin. When you speak about a man and his father, you are speaking about TWO individual people with minds and wills of their own. Is that an accurate comparison to a man and HIS OWN spirit? Mike, No! That is not.  The Jews, at least the Hellenistic ones, had a tradition of calling God's attributes his children.  This is seen in the Wisdom writings.  These children are not individual people with minds of their own though they may have that seeming at times.  That seeming has led corrupt and ignorant people to come up with the tenet that the Spirit is a person.

Kerwin…………This is right, those who have God's Spirit attributes”IN” them are the Children of GOD . Because the Spirit of God “IN” them produce the same thinking as God the Father , it reveals to them God's way of thinking. It changes their hearts and minds to conform to God himself.

The personification of spirit has caused many to think they are Persons , some even think the spirit of Wisdom is a Person , and ha-satan is a person but we know they are spirits that can enter a person and give their attributes to a person.

Jesus even said he spoke about God in a Proverbial Language , the word Proverbial means a fictitious illustration Most cannot precieve what a Spirit is, so Jesus spoke about the Father in a Proverbial sense, because they were carnel minded, and just could not precieve what Spirits are. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene

[kerwin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 22 2013,19:35)

Quote (kerwin @ May 22 2013,10:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 22 2013,05:00) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,17:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,04:57) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,15:49) 1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Kerwin, Is the spirit of a man the son of that man? Mike, Are you aware you are asking if the relationship of a man's spirit to a man is in some aspect the same as a son to his father? Please answer the question, Kerwin. When you speak about a man and his father, you are speaking about TWO individual people with minds and wills of their own. Is that an accurate comparison to a man and HIS OWN spirit? Mike, No! That is not.  The Jews, at least the Hellenistic ones, had a tradition of calling God's attributes his children.  This is seen in the Wisdom writings.  These children are not individual people with minds of their own though they may have that seeming at times.  That seeming has led corrupt and ignorant people to come up with the tenet that the Spirit is a person. Kerwin…………This is right, those who have God's Spirit attributes”IN” them are the Children of GOD . Because the Spirit of God “IN” them produce the same thinking as God the Father , it reveals to them God's way of thinking. It changes their hearts and minds to conform to God himself. The personification of spirit has caused many to think they are Persons , some even think the spirit of Wisdom is a Person , and ha-satan is a person but we know they are spirits that can enter a person and give their attributes to a person. Jesus even said he spoke about God in a Proverbial Language , the word Proverbial means a fictitious illustration Most cannot precieve what a Spirit is, so Jesus spoke about the Father in a Proverbial sense, because they were carnel minded, and just could not precieve what Spirits are. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene

Gene,

The Satan is the chief angel of the fallen. He is named after the Spirit whose fruits he bears just as angels are called messengers when that is what they do.

It can be confusing to determine when Scripture is using a personification and when it speaks of a person.

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin ……I agree it can be confusiong , But I still believe that Satan is no Angels of any kind, because no scripture specifically calls him a Angel that i have seen so far, Not saying it is not possible. But I see the “Spirit” of ha-satan as a working spirit that can inter flesh beings and influence them and produce Childern, called the Childern of the devil according to Jesus, While i have seen no scripture that say an angel can have childern. So how can Satan or the devil have childern if he is an Angel ? I know he is Personified as a Person, but so is GOD Personified also. But Jesus said he Spoke of the Father in a Proverbial Language (fictious illistration) , i also thing ha-satan is personified the same way but is actually spirit created by God for his purposes. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Kerwin……………………………………..gene

[kerwin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 23 2013,20:23)

Kerwin ……I agree it can be confusiong , But I still believe that Satan is no Angels of any kind, because no scripture specifically calls him a Angel that i have seen so far, Not saying it is not possible. But  I see the “Spirit” of ha-satan as a working spirit that can inter flesh beings and influence them and produce Childern, called the Childern of the devil according to Jesus, While i have seen no scripture that say an angel can have childern. So how can Satan or the devil have childern if he is an Angel ?  I know he is Personified as a Person, but so is GOD Personified  also.  But Jesus said he Spoke of the Father in a Proverbial Language (fictious illistration) , i also thing ha-satan is personified the same way but is actually spirit created by God for his purposes. IMO peace and love to you and yours Kerwin……………………………………..gene

Gene,

Satan and his angels that fought Michael and his angels had a commander. That commander has the title The Satan because he is chief among the satans and bears the fruit of the satan spirit.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2013,17:31)

That seeming has led corrupt and ignorant people to come up with the tenet that the Spirit is a person.

But aren't YOU the one who is claiming the Spirit IS a person – namely, God's Son, who knows all the things of God?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 21 2013,17:37)

The most reasonable hierarchy is the Spirit is the only one that knows the things of God, the Spirit is the one that reveals them to Jesus, Jesus reveals them to believers by the Spirit. I have not heard anything more reasonable.

Matthew 11:27
………..no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Is Jesus the “Son” in this verse? Or is Jesus speaking about God's “Spirit Son” revealing God to certain people?

[mikeboll64]

Hebrews 1
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son……..

jammin, who is the “God” that spoke through prophets in the past, and through His Son in “these last days”?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2013,11:50)

Gene, Satan and his angels that fought Michael and his angels had a commander.

Hi Gene,

Surely you realize that the commander of the righteous angel armies will be an angel named Michael, right?

But who will be commanding the evil angel armies that Michael fights against?

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike…….Who was the cammander of those people Jesus called the childern of the Devil or Satan, was it another human beiing or a Sprit working “IN” those Human Beings, Or perhaps not,  was it an Angel working there and commanding those human beings.  Satan is Sprit and Spirit are not Angels Mike no matter how hard you try to make them be. Spirit are what is “IN” Human beings and Angels Also. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………….gene

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