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Quote (2besee @ May 05 2013,11:54) Abe. The spirit of the Lord,
The spirit of wisdom
The spirit of understanding
The spirit of counsel
The spirit of strength
The spirit of knowledge
The spirit of fear of the LordThat is seven! Well done.
2beeThose seven so called spirits are not seven but Six
All are included in the SPIRIT OF THE LORD(GOD ALMIGHTY)
Unless God is not a being ,with a soul and heart(deep feelings)
And God does not fear himself, it is men that should fear him,
Terrica………The Spirit of truth is also from God and has already been given to Some including Jesus, Now if you do not believe in the SEVEN SPIRITS of GOD that are before the very Throne of God, then you are in contradiction to “Plainly” written scriptures, we have posted. I thought you have said over and over you believed the Scriptures it appears you Don't in this case anyway. You look at God as you do an ordinary person, God is not a Person He is “Personified” as a Person. Like Wisdom is personified as a She, and Love also, ha-Satan is also personified as a Person, even Jesus Personified God as a Person, but what did he later say to the disciples regarding the Father?
“I have spoken to you about the Father in a “Proverbial” Language, “BUT” a time will come when i will Show you Plainly of or about the Father”. The word used there for a proverb means a “factious illustration”. Do you need scripture i can post them for you , but the question is will you “believe “them?
Many people think Satan is a Angel, because of the language used in Ezekiel, and even get the Idea that his name is Lucifer, But what they fail to do is read what God said before he sent Ezekiel to the King of Babylon, where he said take this Proverb (a factious illustration) to the King of Babylon.
They realize a human being could not really be that, so they ascribe it to a Satan “being”, but fail to realize it is not a true depiction of a real human, but what the King in his deceived puffed up heart was thinking about himself, thinking he was so great, God was ridiculing Him with those Word shown him his own Proud and haughty Heart the King had. Non of that had anything to do with a real “ha-satan” or a Persons name at All. It all was a proverb (factious illustration) to show the King his proud heart and what God was going to do about it. Go check it our for yourself and see if the word “PROVERB” is not there and then go look up the meaning of “PROVERB”.
peace and love to you and yours Pierre………………………………………………….gene
Quote (2besee @ May 04 2013,23:37) May I ask WHY you are continually quoting from “NETNOTES” and Trinitarian scholars? Everywhere I look are “NETNOTES” quotes.
Why does it bother you so much?
2B, if and when you can ever SCRIPTURALLY refute something I've posted from NETNotes, then DO SO. If you cannot refute what I've posted from them, then shhhhhh.
(BTW, your post is misleading. Did it not dawn on you that I was specifically using TRINITARIAN scholars for jammin to prove my point?)
Quote (kerwin @ May 04 2013,23:38) Mike, The heavenly team created man, each member doing his part according to Yahweh's command.
And how do you reconcile that claim against “God alone created”?I've identified your problem today. The word “said”, as in “God said”, is SINGULAR, not plural.
So one God said, “Let US make man in OUR image”. It wasn't multiple gods who said the words.
Does that help?
Quote (abe @ May 04 2013,23:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 04 2013,20:31) Quote (abe @ May 04 2013,12:53) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 04 2013,07:18) To All……….God was not speaking to his angles at all, they have no creative ability, but he was speaking to the SEVEN SPIRITS of GOD which are before the Throne of The LORD “YAHWEH” who is our God, he used those SEVEN SPIRITS to create all his creation. Jesus is not the us mentioned there nor are the Angles either. IMO peace and love to you all……………………………………………gene
Hi Gene,Amen.
Oh brother.Gene and Abe, are these 7 spirits of God PERSONS who have their own minds and thoughts? Are they spirit BEINGS?
Hi Mike,Is.11:1 Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse, And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
2The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him, The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and strength, The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.Rev.4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
The Spirit of the Lord is ONE of Seven.
Peace brother…
So you think Is 11 says, “The Spirit of the LORD and the spirit of wisdom and the spirit of understanding and……………………….. ?I never thought of it that way. I don't think those “ands” are in the Hebrew. Nor does it make sense to me that only one of those spirits is called “the Spirit of the LORD”. Wouldn't they ALL be “spirits of the LORD”? And if they are intended to be listed as various “spirits of the LORD”, then isn't there one missing? Because if you lump them all together as “spirits of the LORD”, then the list only contains six – not seven.
But anyway, please answer the actual question I asked, okay?
Quote (terraricca @ May 05 2013,21:47) Those seven so called spirits are not seven but Six All are included in the SPIRIT OF THE LORD(GOD ALMIGHTY)
Oops. I answered before seeing that you already said the same thing.
Quote (2besee @ May 05 2013,16:31) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 06 2013,03:02) And to me this was who the Lord our God was speaking to when he said in Genesis “let us make man in “OUR” Image. Gene, yes I agree.
Okay Abe. You agree with Gene. Now, do you think these were BEINGS God was speaking to? Or do you also agree with Gene that these were seven “cognate thoughts” – or whatever he calls them?Gene, what does it mean for God to speak to a NON-being as if it were a being? I mean, why is God talking TO these spirits as if they were persons?
Quote (jammin @ May 05 2013,14:55) Mike im still waiting for your answer. You said God is not everywhere.but what if i cn read that to you,will you accept that you are a false teacher?
I already told you that if you can show me that God is “omnipresent” IN THE ACTUAL HEBREW OR GREEK TEXT OF THE SCRIPTURES, then I will admit that I was wrong about that one thing.No, I WON'T admit I am a “false teacher” in general.
So now your question has been answered AGAIN as clearly as I can answer it.
In other words, I'm calling you, jammin. It's now time for you to lay down your hand and show us your cards.
jammin,
Why are you trying to change the topic? Don't you want to comment on all those TRINITARIAN scholars Kerwin and I listed? You know – the ones who say God was talking to His divine counsel of angels in Gen 1:26.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2013,12:52) Quote (2besee @ May 05 2013,16:31) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 06 2013,03:02) And to me this was who the Lord our God was speaking to when he said in Genesis “let us make man in “OUR” Image. Gene, yes I agree.
Okay Abe. You agree with Gene. Now, do you think these were BEINGS God was speaking to? Or do you also agree with Gene that these were seven “cognate thoughts” – or whatever he calls them?Gene, what does it mean for God to speak to a NON-being as if it were a being? I mean, why is God talking TO these spirits as if they were persons?
Mike………I do not say Spirits were Congnate thoughts, i said they, (Spirits) gives us “our” cognate intellects again yet another misunderstand of what i posted. God according to Jesus is a Spirit right?, so is he a “BEING” so what Kind of “Being” is he? it all depends on what you call a “Being” right?God according to you must be an angel as you believe Angels are Spirit “beings” right?, so being God is a Spirit, and you believe Spirits are Angels , what kind of Angel is God Mike? O that's right Mike, Jesus is a Spirt now also according to you, and so that is why he is your “little” God. RIGHT!
peace and love to you and yours………………………………gen
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 07 2013,21:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2013,12:52) Quote (2besee @ May 05 2013,16:31) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 06 2013,03:02) And to me this was who the Lord our God was speaking to when he said in Genesis “let us make man in “OUR” Image. Gene, yes I agree.
Okay Abe. You agree with Gene. Now, do you think these were BEINGS God was speaking to? Or do you also agree with Gene that these were seven “cognate thoughts” – or whatever he calls them?Gene, what does it mean for God to speak to a NON-being as if it were a being? I mean, why is God talking TO these spirits as if they were persons?
Mike………I do not say Spirits were Congnate thoughts, i said they, (Spirits) gives us “our” cognate intellects again yet another misunderstand of what i posted. God according to Jesus is a Spirit right?, so is he a “BEING” so what Kind of “Being” is he? it all depends on what you call a “Being” right?God according to you must be an angel as you believe Angels are Spirit “beings” right?, so being God is a Spirit, and you believe Spirits are Angels , what kind of Angel is God Mike? O that's right Mike, Jesus is a Spirt now also according to you, and so that is why he is your “little” God. RIGHT!
peace and love to you and yours………………………………gen
GeneGod is a spirit but he his not lower than his creation
Angels beings are some what lower than Christ and we know that Christ is the second to God ,just as all earth mammals are not the same,
Men being the top of the line,and we do not know now what a spirit being looks like in his own environment (in heaven)Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 06 2013,17:42) Quote (abe @ May 04 2013,23:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 04 2013,20:31) Quote (abe @ May 04 2013,12:53) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 04 2013,07:18) To All……….God was not speaking to his angles at all, they have no creative ability, but he was speaking to the SEVEN SPIRITS of GOD which are before the Throne of The LORD “YAHWEH” who is our God, he used those SEVEN SPIRITS to create all his creation. Jesus is not the us mentioned there nor are the Angles either. IMO peace and love to you all……………………………………………gene
Hi Gene,Amen.
Oh brother.Gene and Abe, are these 7 spirits of God PERSONS who have their own minds and thoughts? Are they spirit BEINGS?
Hi Mike,Is.11:1 Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse, And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
2The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him, The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and strength, The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.Rev.4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
The Spirit of the Lord is ONE of Seven.
Peace brother…
So you think Is 11 says, “The Spirit of the LORD and the spirit of wisdom and the spirit of understanding and……………………….. ?I never thought of it that way. I don't think those “ands” are in the Hebrew. Nor does it make sense to me that only one of those spirits is called “the Spirit of the LORD”. Wouldn't they ALL be “spirits of the LORD”? And if they are intended to be listed as various “spirits of the LORD”, then isn't there one missing? Because if you lump them all together as “spirits of the LORD”, then the list only contains six – not seven.
But anyway, please answer the actual question I asked, okay?
Hi Mike,Rev.5:12 saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.”
Seven.
1Cor.1:24 but to those who are the Called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the Power of God and the Wisdom of God.
Two.
Rev.5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and OF the four beasts, and in the midst of the Elders, stood a Lamb as it had been Slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the SEVEN Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Peace brother….
Abe,
I asked (twice now) if the seven spirits of God are PERSONS, with their own minds and wills.
Please answer the question.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 07 2013,09:50) God according to Jesus is a Spirit right?, so is he a “BEING” so what Kind of “Being” is he? it all depends on what you call a “Being” right?
Yes Gene. And I assume most people understand the word “being” to refer to a cognizant entity – one who is an individual (separate from all others), and who has a mind and will of his own.When I say “alien being”, do you imagine an unconscious spirit who is sent by another, as a tool? Or do you imagine certain alien life forms that think for themselves, and have wills of their own?
When I say “human blood cell”, do you imagine that this blood cell IS a human BEING? What if I say “human intellect”? Do you imagine that this intellect IS a human BEING?
When I say God is a spirit BEING, I refer to God as a cognizant PERSON who has His own mind, feelings, will, emotions, heart, soul, power, etc. Are we now understanding each other? And if so, do YOU believe that God is a spirit BEING?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 07 2013,09:50) God according to you must be an angel as you believe Angels are Spirit “beings” right?,
Satan and his demons are also spirit beings, Gene. Does that mean I think God is a demon – or Satan himself?Angels are spirit sons of God who are often messengers OF God. God is a spirit being who DOESN'T deliver anyone else's message to others. Nor is He a son of anyone. So no, God is not an angel, although He IS a spirit being.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 07 2013,09:50) O that's right Mike, Jesus is a Spirt now also according to you, and so that is why he is your “little” God. RIGHT!
Correct, Gene. Jesus is now a spirit being. I've learned this fact from the holy scriptures. And Jesus is a god who is not the Most High God, so therefore he is a “less high god” than the Most High God. I've also learned this fact from the holy scriptures.Are you beginning to understand these things, Gene? And if you are too stubborn to even try to understand them, are you at least willing to accept that the things I believe come straight out of the holy scriptures?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2013,13:44) Abe, I asked (twice now) if the seven spirits of God are PERSONS, with their own minds and wills.
Please answer the question.
Hi Mike,Why do you have to ADD to the Scriptures? I don't SEE the word Person? Deal with your OWN Demons.
Peace.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2013,07:40) Quote (kerwin @ May 04 2013,23:38) Mike, The heavenly team created man, each member doing his part according to Yahweh's command.
And how do you reconcile that claim against “God alone created”?I've identified your problem today. The word “said”, as in “God said”, is SINGULAR, not plural.
So one God said, “Let US make man in OUR image”. It wasn't multiple gods who said the words.
Does that help?
Mike,The angels are Jehovah's tools and not his fellow workmen.
I have not looked at “said” or how it relates.
I do not know if plural majesties were used in Scripture or are in Hebrew to be used.
Quote (kerwin @ May 03 2013,19:47) Quote (jammin @ May 03 2013,10:57) Quote (kerwin @ May 03 2013,15:08) Quote (jammin @ May 03 2013,04:16) kerwin, they worshipped jesus bec he is God. (not the father but the Son)
john 20.28
thomas said to jesus , my Lord and my God.
what about commentary?
let me post what commentary saidmat 28.9
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
…and worshipped him: with divine adoration, expressing their love to him; their faith and hope in him, owning him to be their Lord and God; he being, by his resurrection from the dead, declared to be the Son of God, with power; and so the proper object of religious worship.
btw i still an assignment for you.
where is your hebrew bible that says in gen 1.26 that God is talking to his angels?i can wait boy.
ill give million yrs LOL
Jammin,And how does Gill get all that out of a few words that can mean they paid obeisance to the King of the Jews.
Elohim, translated God, means angels in some contexts.
then give me an english version that says in gen 1.26 that GOD is talking to his angels.
dont waste my time mate.
give me version and stop talking./
Jammon,So you wand me to quote the translations of the apostate church as evidence. Elohim is plural because the context is plural. That translation seems at odd with the fact God alone created the universe.
Quote This argument, however, is deeply flawed, and, accordingly, a great number of Trinitarian theologians have long rejected the notion that Genesis 1:26 implies a plurality of persons in the godhead. Rather, Christian scholars overwhelmingly agree that the plural pronoun in this verse is a reference to God’s ministering angels who were created previously, and the Almighty spoke majestically in the plural, consulting His heavenly court. Let’s read the comments of a number of preeminent Trinitarian Bible scholars on this subject. Note: My Source is Rabbi Singer
no version yet boy?ill give you 1m years to find one.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2013,12:56) Quote (jammin @ May 05 2013,14:55) Mike im still waiting for your answer. You said God is not everywhere.but what if i cn read that to you,will you accept that you are a false teacher?
I already told you that if you can show me that God is “omnipresent” IN THE ACTUAL HEBREW OR GREEK TEXT OF THE SCRIPTURES, then I will admit that I was wrong about that one thing.No, I WON'T admit I am a “false teacher” in general.
So now your question has been answered AGAIN as clearly as I can answer it.
In other words, I'm calling you, jammin. It's now time for you to lay down your hand and show us your cards.
what is the use of hebrew if you dont understand it boy?i am not asking you for hebrew bible to give me in gn1.26 that GOD is talking to his angels.
i am just asking you for a version not a footnote boy.
but you are asking me for hebrew? LOL
you are not even a scholar to discuss these things.
you are a kid boy. you need to study hard LOLim asking you again
what if i can read to you that GOD is everywhere, will you accept that you are a false teacher?and show me a version that says in gen 1.26 that GOD is talking to his angels.
ill give you 1m yrs
Quote (kerwin @ May 07 2013,19:20) Mike, The angels are Jehovah's tools and not his fellow workmen.
Agreed, which is why I wondered when you said this the other day:Quote (kerwin @ May 04 2013,23:38)
Mike,The heavenly team created man, each member doing his part according to Yahweh's command.
Quote (kerwin @ May 07 2013,19:20) I do not know if plural majesties were used in Scripture or are in Hebrew to be used.
Yes they were – with more words than “elohim”.Kerwin,
The following is from Wikipedia:
It is worthy of note that, in the Biblical Hebrew (as well as in many other languages, such as Yaqui) the customary grammatical “plurality” of a word is often simply that: a grammatical plural. The use of “plural” forms for singular nouns is common in the Hebrew Bible, and often connotes quintessence, uniqueness, or might rather than plurality (though it may connote both).
Thus, the phrase “מלך מלכי המלכים” (“melekh maləkêi ha-məlâkhim”) does not refer to “a king, kings of kings”, but to “a king of unsurpassed kingship”;
שיר השירים,
(“shir ha-shirim”) does not refer to “a song of songs”, but to “a song that is the quintessential song”;ימים רבים (“yamim rabim”) refers to “a great sea” as easily as to “great [or 'many'] seas”.
A clue to this is the Hebrew grammatical term for “plural”: lâshon rabbim, meaning “a term of grandiosities”.
The Hebrew word for “plural” actually means “a term of grandiosities”.
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