JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[limjunus]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 18 2012,16:37)

Agreed Mike. When God is in us, we do not become God either.

t8,

I am 100% agreed.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 18 2012,16:26)

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 14 2012,18:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 14 2012,06:18) Quote (jammin @ Oct. 13 2012,02:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 13 2012,10:42) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 07 2012,15:55) Hi Charles, I asked Mike how many 'theos' are to be known, believed in, served, honored, and praised in order to have eternal salvation. Hey Charles and jammin………………………. When are you guys going to answer Kathi's question with a NUMERICAL answer? HOW MANY? there is ONE GOD THE FATHER there is one GOD THE ONLY SON! that is the answer mike. we told you about this a long long time ago Well jammin, One plus one equals TWO, right?  So are you saying we have TWO Almighty Gods?  YES or NO? TWO persons but one in nature, GOD. But Kathi is not asking how many PERSONS are to be known, believed in, served, honored, and praised in order to have eternal salvation, is she? She's asking how many GODS, right? Please answer HER question as she asked it. HOW MANY GODS, JAMMIN?

stop fooling people mike.
we know and it is very obvious that you are adding words to the bible.

you said before CHRIST WAS IN THE FORM OF HIS GOD

take note the word HIS

no version that says HIS God in phil 2.6. ONLY MIKE SAID THAT!
i asked you where can you find your illusion HIS GOD in phil 2.6 but you are keep ignoring my question.

to answer your question
my ANSWER IS who is the GOD that you are referring to?
if you say the father, my answer is ONE
if you say the son, my answer is ONE

they have the same nature, God.

the bible said the son is God
the father is also GOD

GOD is their nature.
my example will always be you and your father. you are two in numbers but one in nature, HUMAN.

[jammin]

Quote (limjunus @ Oct. 18 2012,18:09)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 18 2012,16:26) there is ONE GOD THE FATHER there is one GOD THE ONLY SON! TWO persons but one in nature, GOD. She's asking how many GODS, right? Please answer HER question as she asked it. HOW MANY GODS, JAMMIN? Mike, He will not answer. He will answer the wrong way. He will never answer your question faithfully. He even despising and discarding the Son, teaching that the only true God, is the Father alone and not the Son. See his style, see how he cheated himself by not putting the words “only true God, the Father. He is insisting at any rate that the Son is truly God and also the Father is truly God. He is insisting two persons composing the only true God, and later on and so on,.. they shall become three persons composing the only true God. adding the holy spirit. He is disregarding the other passages of the Bible that did not in conformity with his stand. He loved very much the verses he thought and understood wrongfully. The Son, said: “my Father is the only true God” Jammin, said: No! You (the Son) and the Father are the only true God. Here is another question to Jammin: ” Who is the only true God, the Father or the Son? You owe me a lot of answer, remember?

john 17.3 refers to the father.

but you are not telling the whole truth boy.
john 17.3 is not the whole bible.

let me post john 1.18
John 1:18

New International Version (NIV)

18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

the bible said that. Christ is God.
what you are telling is a LIE

[Lightenup]

Good answer jammin'

The two are one, that's what Jesus said.

John 10:30
“I and the Father are one.”

[Lightenup]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 17 2012,17:07)

To add LU: Οὐδεὶς (Oudeis)  The greek word used for “no one” or “no man” in the KJV.  Is used through the bible. Question: The same word is also used here: Young's Literal Translation: Rev 19:12 and his eyes are as a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems — having a name written that no one hath known, except himself So than does that mean the “father” as you cliam doesn't know that name as well? Than does this mean you believe that the Father is not omniscience, since there is something that He doesn't know??

Dennison,
Context will tell you if 'no one' knows or 'no one' can, means 'no man' or 'no one' in the fullest sense.

In Rev 5, the context tells us that the Lamb can open the scroll because He overcame and was slain. It also tells us that He was the only one in heaven or on earth or under the earth that was qualified to open the scroll. The setting here is in heaven right at the throne, in the presence of God the Father. For the Father to be included as one who is not qualified to open the scroll is not something that demonstrates a lack of power or knowledge, it just shows that the qualifications that the Father set for opening the scroll fit only one person who had to overcome and be slain.

Rev 5 does not say that 'no one, except the Father.' It says 'no one in heaven, or on earth, or under the earth,' which would include the Father Himself.

Here are the translations that bear witness to this:

New International Version (©1984)
But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.

New Living Translation (©2007)
But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll and read it.

English Standard Version (©2001)
And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it.

International Standard Version (©2008)
No one in heaven, on earth, or under the earth could open the scroll or look inside it.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And there was none able in Heaven or in Earth, nor any under The Earth, to open the scroll and to open its seals and look upon it.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
No one in heaven, on earth, or under the earth could open the scroll or look inside it.

American Standard Version
And no one in the heaven, or on the earth, or under the earth, was able to open the book, or to look thereon.

Darby Bible Translation
And no one was able in the heaven, or upon the earth, or underneath the earth, to open the book, or to regard it.

English Revised Version
And no one in the heaven, or on the earth, or under the earth, was able to open the book, or to look thereon.

Weymouth New Testament
But no one in Heaven, or on earth, or under the earth, was able to open the book or look into it.

World English Bible
No one in heaven above, or on the earth, or under the earth, was able to open the book, or to look in it.

Young's Literal Translation
and no one was able in the heaven, nor upon the earth, nor under the earth, to open the scroll, nor to behold it.

The fact is, the Father held the scroll but did not open it and only the Lamb was said to be qualified to open the scroll. The Lamb overcame and was slain, the Father was not slain.

The OT pattern for the perfect sacrifice was to sacrifice the firstborn, not the parent of the firstborn. Abraham was not asked to sacrifice himself but was asked to sacrifice his son.

[Proclaimer]

Jesus was the only one worthy to open the scroll. What most are missing out here is who wrote it. Because the one who wrote it would not need to open the scroll because they already know what is in the scroll.

Unless of course you think the scroll just popped out of nothing. Like the Atheist who believes that the universe came from nothing.

Sorry but magic doesn't cut it for me. I like to see real answers because no matter what the trick looks like, when you investigate, there are usually ropes and pulleys.

So who wrote the scroll, well it its likely that the one who knows when Jesus will return is a likely candidate. So why exactly would the Father need to open the scroll? And who in their right mind would say that the only true God is not worthy? Rather it is God who knows all things. And only those who are worthy can understand his plans.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 18 2012,00:51)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 17 2012,16:07) Young's Literal Translation: Rev 19:12 and his eyes are as a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems — having a name written that no one hath known, except himself So than does that mean the “father” as you cliam doesn't know that name as well? Good point, D. Kathi must also consider 1 Cor 15:27…….. Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. Obviously, the same would apply concerning the scroll, ie:  When it says NO ONE in heaven could open the scroll, it is clear this doesn't include God, who sealed the scroll in the first place, or His Lamb, who was obviously also “someone in heaven” who DID open the scroll.

Mike,
Show me where the Father was slain and then you will have proven that He was also qualified to open the scroll that He sealed. Otherwise, He was not qualified to open the scroll according to the qualifications that He, Himself established. This does not make Him less powerful than the Lamb, it just makes Him not qualified as one who had to overcome the temptation to sin and be slain. There are many things that the Lamb did that the Father did not do and many things that the Father does that the Lamb did not do. That only speaks to their different roles, not to their equality in nature. They are both equally theos in nature.

[Lightenup]

t8,
I don't get the impression that anyone is missing out on who wrote the scroll. The point that I am making is that the Father cannot also be the Lamb as Dennison teaches and the fact that the Lamb is only qualified to open the scroll and not the Father demonstrates that they are not the same person.

[Proclaimer]

Yes that is right. The Father cannot also be the Lamb. He is wrong if he says that.

[Lightenup]

t8,
Isn't the qualification of opening the scroll to actually be the one who was slain? Was the Father qualified to open the scroll, no…the Father was not slain. This does not make Him less God, or less powerful.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (limjunus @ Oct. 18 2012,01:09)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 18 2012,16:26) there is ONE GOD THE FATHER there is one GOD THE ONLY SON! TWO persons but one in nature, GOD. She's asking how many GODS, right? Please answer HER question as she asked it. HOW MANY GODS, JAMMIN? Mike, He will not answer. He will answer the wrong way. He will never answer your question faithfully. He even despising and discarding the Son, teaching that the only true God, is the Father alone and not the Son. See his style, see how he cheated himself by not putting the words “only true God, the Father. He is insisting at any rate that the Son is truly God and also the Father is truly God. He is insisting two persons composing the only true God, and later on and so on,.. they shall become three persons composing the only true God. adding the holy spirit. He is disregarding the other passages of the Bible that did not in conformity with his stand. He loved very much the verses he thought and understood wrongfully. The Son, said: “my Father is the only true God” Jammin, said: No! You (the Son) and the Father are the only true God. Here is another question to Jammin: ” Who is the only true God, the Father or the Son? You owe me a lot of answer, remember?

Good post, limjunis. All good points.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 18 2012,05:57)

to answer your question my ANSWER IS who is the GOD that you are referring to? if you say the father, my answer is ONE if you say the son, my answer is ONE

  Just answer the question AS KATHI POSTED IT, jammin.  Are you incapable of doing that?  Here it is again:

how many 'theos' are to be known, believed in, served, honored, and praised in order to have eternal salvation?

How many, jammin?  One?  Two?  Three?  More than three?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 18 2012,05:59)

18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Actually, John 1:18 speaks of an only begotten god, who is in close relationship to the Father.

Your version is bunk, and not even close to the teaching of the Greek words of 1:18.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 18 2012,06:15)

Good answer jammin' The two are one, that's what Jesus said. John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”

Jesus also hoped for some of us to become one with them. Will those ones ALSO be God Almighty?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 18 2012,06:44)

I like to see real answers because no matter what the trick looks like, when you investigate, there are usually ropes and pulleys.

Amen.

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 18 2012,06:44)

So who wrote the scroll, well it its likely that the one who knows when Jesus will return is a likely candidate.

I emphasized “one” because there is truly only ONE who knows that day and hour.  Not even Jesus Christ, the holy servant of God, knows.

[Lightenup]

Mike,

Jesus was speaking of being in unity in what the followers 'know'…truth in the Father and the Son, not in unity within the highest authority.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 18 2012,06:44)

This does not make Him less powerful than the Lamb, it just makes Him not qualified as one who had to overcome the temptation to sin and be slain. There are many things that the Lamb did that the Father did not do and many things that the Father does that the Lamb did not do. That only speaks to their different roles, not to their equality in nature. They are both equally theos in nature.

That sounds a lot better than what it seemed like you were saying before.

Perhaps Dennison and I misunderstood you before, but it seemed as if you were saying Jesus was more capable than his own God at certain things.

But I agree that if the qualifications have to do with being tempted and overcoming that temptation, then Jesus is qualified and his God is not, for God cannot even be tempted in the first place.

[Lightenup]

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 18 2012,09:03)

Mike, Jesus was speaking of being in unity in what the followers 'know'…truth in the Father and the Son, not in unity within the highest authority.

Show me the scriptural words from which you gain your understanding that “one with the Father” means a certain thing in the case of Jesus, and something different in the case of the elect.

[Lightenup]

Mike,
This context of being 'one' has to do with works/authority:

Quote

22At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; 23it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. 24The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. 26“But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29“My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30“I and the Father are one.”

This context about being one in regards to Christians is about knowledge and understanding, belief, being in Their name, but has nothing to do with them doing the 'works' of the Father or Son:

Quote

John 17:6“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7“Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; 8for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. 9“I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; 10and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. 11“I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, [/B]keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, [/B]that they may be one even as We are.[/B] 12“While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled. The Disciples in the World      13“But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. 14“I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15“I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. 16“They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17“Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18“As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19“For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in[/B] truth.[/B]      20“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Let's look at the different phrases:

Regarding the Father and the Son:

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.

John 17:11
so that they may be one as we are one.
(This regards being in one name.)

John 17:21  that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

I do not see the unity of believer's as one WITH Them but one AS They are…all in one name,  or as one AS being IN Them. Do you know of one of these 'unity' statements that says we are one WITH them?

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