JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

Participant

OK, do you got it now?

September 9, 2012 at 5:31 pm#312206

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 09 2012,11:24)

……and we have seen the Word's glory IN God's only begotten Son.

There Ed,

I made it big and bold so everyone can see exactly what you think John 1:14 teaches. If it is your understanding, then why play games, drag this discussion out, and act all mysterious about it? If this is truly how you understand 1:14, then why wouldn't you just come out and say this 15 pages ago?

Now that I know what your mind-glitch is, I can help you.

The subject of the verse is “the Word”. There is no indication that the subject ever switches in that verse. Ie:

The Word is who became flesh.

The Word is whose glory they had seen.

And the Word is whose glory was the glory as of God's only begotten Son.

There is no word “IN” in the verse, so right there you understanding fails. See? If YOUR understanding requires the word “IN”, and the word “IN” isn't actually in the scripture, then YOUR understanding is faulty, and insists that you ADD YOUR OWN WORDS INTO THE TEACHING.

September 9, 2012 at 5:38 pm#312207

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 10 2012,04:24)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 10 2012,04:01)

Okay, I'm getting closer to understanding what you seem to be afraid to just come out an say.

Is this it:
We have seen the Word's glory IN someone else, who happens to be God's only begotten Son.

Hi Mike; Now remove: ' someone else, who happens to be' and add “ADD”…

(and we have seen the Word's glory IN God's only begotten Son,) full of grace and truth.

(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God bless
Ed J

Hi Mike,

“Our hands have handled, of “The Word” of life;” (1 John 1:1)
This means that they spread the word of God;
it's not about touching Jesus' body.

“the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63)
I don't know why John 6:63 is so difficult for you to understand?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

September 9, 2012 at 5:41 pm#312208

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 10 2012,04:31)

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 09 2012,11:24)

……and we have seen the Word's glory IN God's only begotten Son.

There Ed,

I made it big and bold so everyone can see exactly what you think John 1:14 teaches.

I can help you.

Hi Mike,

Great, love when people help me!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

September 9, 2012 at 5:52 pm#312209

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 10 2012,04:31)

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 09 2012,11:24)

……and we have seen the Word's glory IN God's only begotten Son.

There Ed,

I made it big and bold so everyone can see exactly what you think John 1:14 teaches.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 10 2012,04:31)

And the Word is whose glory was the glory as of God's only begotten Son.

Hi Mike,

Are you speaking in riddles now?
Were not my words plain enough for you?

How about God's words then…
“The word was God” (John 1:1)
“God was in Christ” (2Cor.5:19)

the glory as of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:14) com-
pared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8:18)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

September 9, 2012 at 7:23 pm#312240

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 05 2012,10:18)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Sep. 04 2012,17:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 05 2012,09:17)

……….perhaps it is time you check your glasses.

Strange that you mention that!

I have been noticing lately that my eyes are getting worse.

Well, there ya go.

mikebulls'64,

Note that I also said “No worry though on my part though, since I can simply tilt my head back slightly and see clearly through one of my other focal points in my lenses, since my glasses are tri-focals.”

I not only have to dispute to you the meaning of what Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word is saying to you, but must also dispute what the meaning of what it is that I say to you.

No, “Well there you go.”, taking my words out of context as you also take Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word out of context in attempt to promote your foolish, false, deceptive, and demonic doctrine “Jesus literally pre-existed his birth as an actual being that was “a god” and was also his and our Heavenly Father and Creator's word that was with Him in the beginning.”

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

…

September 10, 2012 at 4:08 am#312266

limjunus

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 10 2012,01:51)

Quote (carmel @ Sep. 08 2012,13:37)

The Father ONLY IN HIS SPIRIT FORM on the throne with the scroll in His hand, waiting for the true GOD AND JESUS CHRIST

The Father was waiting for the true God Jesus Christ?

Charles, how many Almighty Gods are there in existence?

Carmel saiid,

“The Father ONLY IN HIS SPIRIT FORM on the throne with the scroll in His hand,”

How come the Father in spirit form (no material/s) holding in His hand the scroll?

and Carmel said also this: “waiting for the true GOD AND JESUS CHRIST”

Father in heaven, has been introduced by Jesus Christ, the only true God, waiting for another true God and Jesus Christ?

What a very weird doctrine? Only true God waiting for another true God???

Are you still dreaming, Carmel???

September 10, 2012 at 4:36 am#312267

limjunus

Participant

Quote (carmel @ Sep. 10 2012,02:29)

mikeboll64,Sep. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

The Father was waiting for the true God Jesus Christ?

Charles, how many Almighty Gods are there in existence?

Mike,

CORECTION:

TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST

NOT

TRUE GOD JESUS CHRIST.

THERE'S IS ONLY ONE SPIRITUAL ALMIGHTY GOD. THE ONE ON THE THRONE.

THERE'S ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST,WHO GLORIFIED IN BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH UNITING BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON AS ONE MYSTICAL BODY IN JESUS CHRIST

WHO IS IN COMMAND OF THE ENTIRE CREATION PREVENTING THE FATHER FROM DESTROYING OUR SINFULL WORLD.

ON THE LAST DAY:

ALMIGHTY GOD WOULD BE ALL IN ALL

Peace nd love in Jesus

Charles

Carmel said:

“THERE'S IS ONLY ONE SPIRITUAL ALMIGHTY GOD. THE ONE ON THE THRONE.” Question: Who is He?

Carmel said: “THERE'S ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST,WHO GLORIFIED IN BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH UNITING BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON AS ONE MYSTICAL BODY IN JESUS CHRIST”

Question? Do you mean combining the Father and the Son as one mystical body (what do you mean mystical body?) in Christ Jesus. Do you mean Jesus Christ in human flesh, representing the Father and the Son as what?

Another Carmel said: “WHO IS IN COMMAND OF THE ENTIRE CREATION PREVENTING THE FATHER FROM DESTROYING OUR SINFULL WORLD. ON THE LAST DAY:

Question: Do you mean, Jesus Christ is more powerful than the Father, preventing his Father in destroying the sinful world on the last day?

In contrast with the Bible saying: “2 Peter 3:10-12
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

10 But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy manner of living and godliness,

12 looking for and hastening unto the coming of the Day of God, wherein the heavens, being on fire, shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

September 10, 2012 at 5:25 am#312269

jammin

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 10 2012,02:07)

Quote (jammin @ Sep. 08 2012,21:10)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 09 2012,02:57)

Can God take the scroll from the hand of HIMSELF? YES or NO?

LOL

who is that God mike???

the father is God
the son is God.

So there are TWO Almighty Gods? And one of our Almighty Gods took the scroll from the hand of the other Almighty God?

Is that what you think, jammin?

almighty is the nature of God

human is not almighty mike but God!

the father is God
the son is God

and i know that you believe Christ is God

…
before Christ is god to you and not God
but now, he is God to you and his father is GOD not God

LOL

if im going to follow your logic,
your father is HUMAN and you are Human LOL

non sense boy
LOL

the bible said the father and the son have the same nature. they are both God!

believe it or not

September 10, 2012 at 8:08 am#312283

journey42

Participant

Quote (carmel @ Sep. 08 2012,17:24)

[/quote]
Carmel

God is specifically speaking of the Israelites here in Jeremiah.

Quote

Jeremiah

32:28 And they shall be my people,

SO THEY NEVER WERE HIS PEOPLE

you have the verse wrong. That's ok I found it.

Look Carmel what God is saying
Jeremiah 32:36 And now therefore thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning this city, whereof ye say, it shall be delivered into the hand of the king of Babylon by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilince;
(prophecy, understand what it means…future for Israel- ezekiel 14:21, read whole chapter, and read all of Ezekiel)

Jeremiah 32:37 behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury and in great wrath, and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely.
(prophecy future. Israel will be brought into the kingdom during the millennium – chosen ones only. Only then can they dwell safely)

Jeremiah 32:38 And they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
(Speaking of Israel here)

Jeremiah 32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me forever, for the good of them, and of their children after them.
(God will turn their hearts back to him)

Quote

and I will be their God

SO HE WAS NEVER THEIR GOD

They turned their back on him,
now they also must be reconciled to God, but can only come through Christ,
this will be fulfilled during the Millennium.

Quote

: 39And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:

SO THEY NEVER HAD THE PROPER HEART,THE PROPER WAY, AND THEY NEVER FEARED HIM.

They did once, but strayed

Quote

40And I will make an everlasting covenant with them,

They didn't accept the new covenant with Christ,
this their stumbling block,
but God will make them know the new covenant, and write it in their hearts. They will be taught when Christ returns

Quote

SO ALL THE PREVIOUS COVENANTS WERE NEVER OF GOD ALMIGHTY IN THE TRUTH,SINCE THEY WERE NOT EVERLASTING LIKE HIMSELF THE UNIQUE ATTRIBUTE OF ALMIGHTY GOD!!

The old covenant was of God, to them, but they disobeyed. The old covenant was a forerunner to the new one. They couldn't even keep the old one, let alone accept the new one, but that will change for the remnant.

Quote

that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

The Israelites have been complacent till this day, thinking that they are God's chosen people, so they think no harm will come to them,
but God will show them that he has not been happy with them, and he will correct them,
but he will punish them first,
as they are his first born,
and a Father that loves his children will chastise them
for their own good and for his name's sake.
He has mercy on us,
he will also show mercy on them.

Quote

SO NO MATTER WHAT, FROM JESUS DEATH ONWARDS,CHRISTIANS WERE NEVER AND WOULD NEVER DEPART FOR GOD!!

You misunderstood Jeremiah, read the letters to the 7 churches in revelations where God is telling his people to come out of Babylon.
Many Christians, will fall, because of lack of knowledge, and only possessing iip service, but God sees into the heart..
Many will be deceived
We can't be complacent
We must all strive to not be like these.

September 10, 2012 at 8:08 pm#312362

Participant

Christianity has a paganistic triune “God” that are worship! :laugh:

One of this so-called “Holy Trinity” they refer to as being 'The Word of “God”'.

Trinity sminity! :laugh:

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

…

September 10, 2012 at 8:29 pm#312363

Participant

In Christology, the conception that the Christ is the Logos (Greek: Λόγος for “word”, “discourse” or “reason”) has been important in establishing the doctrine of the divinity of Jesus Christ and his position as God the Son in the Trinity as set forth in the Chalcedonian Creed.
SOURCE

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

…

September 11, 2012 at 12:00 am#312367

jammin

Participant

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Sep. 11 2012,07:08)

Christianity has a paganistic triune “God” that are worship! :laugh:

One of this so-called “Holy Trinity” they refer to as being 'The Word of “God”'.

Trinity sminity! :laugh:

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

…

the apostles are christians

are you not christian??? oh yeah.. you are the pagan

September 11, 2012 at 12:08 am#312368

Participant

Quote

Finally I leave you with the following OT scripture that suggests that God had a Son before the birth Of Jesus Christ on earth.

Proverbs 30:4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!

SOURCE

Proverbs 30:4. This verse — in the King James Version — reads:

Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Once again, this particular scripture is TWISTED by the false ministers in the world who claim that it teaches that the Messiah was already in existence at that time. But this verse in NO WAY refers to the Messiah — and it is hard to believe that any serious student of the Bible could use this verse to justify such an under-standing. But, sadly, they do. Correctly translated, this verse reads:

Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound up the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is HIS NAME? What is THE NAME of His sons? Tell me if you know!

Here is a copy of Proverbs 30:4 from the Greek Septuagint Version, from which this verse was translated —

Who hath ascended up to heaven and come down? Who hath collected the winds in his bosom? Who hath infolded the water in a mantle? Who hath a dominion over all the ends of the earth? What is his name? or what is the name of his sons?

The Anchor Bible, Proverbs, on page 176, corroborates this translation and plainly says that the sons who are being spoken of refer to the HEAVENLY HOST — in other words, the ANGELS! Notice what it says —

4. Who has ascended the sky. Cf. Job xxxviii 3-38; Isa xl 12ff.; Unless his name is known, neither god nor man can be known as real' cf. Gen xxxii 29; Exod iii 13; Isa lii 6. his sons'. The divine beings of the heavenly host; cf. Ps lxxxii 6; Job xxxviii 7. Surely you know. Cf. Job xxxviii 5.

This was NOT speaking of the Messiah going back and forth from heaven to earth, this was speaking of YEHOVAH God's MESSENGERS — the angels! The Messiah was not an angel, as the Bible clearly states –

Hebrews 1:13 — But to which of the angels has He ever said: Sit at My right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool?

Hebrews 2:5 — For it is not to the angels that He has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.

Hebrews 2:16 — For truly, He does not take hold of angels, but He takes hold of the seed of Abraham.

There are absolutely NO direct statements to the effect that any beings existed beside YEHOVAH God before He created the angels. But, there are MANY direct scriptures which say emphatically that YEHOVAH God was ALONE at creation, and that there was NONE BESIDE HIM!

Isaiah 43:11 (King James Version) — I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 44:6, 8 (King James Version) — Thus saith the King of Israyl, and his redeemer [YEHOVAH] of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside ME there is NO GOD. Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a GOD beside ME? yea, there is NO GOD; I know not any.

Isaiah 45:5 (King James Version) — I am [YEHOVAH], and there is NONE ELSE, there is NO GOD beside ME: I girded thee, though thou has not known ME.
SOURCE

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

…

September 11, 2012 at 12:25 am#312372

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 09 2012,11:38)

Hi Mike,

“Our hands have handled, of “The Word” of life;” (1 John 1:1)
This means that they spread the word of God;
it's not about touching Jesus' body.

I disagree, Ed.

Read the whole passage:
1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us.

Surely this is about Jesus Christ, the Word of God. How do you suppose John and the others “SAW” and “HANDLED” the word of God they preached? I could see your point if John had only said they “HEARD” the Word, because that is exactly how God's word was spread among the people – by word of mouth that others HEARD.

But once you add “SAW” and “HANDLED WITH OUR OWN HANDS”, your interpretation can no longer be the correct one.

peace,
mike

September 11, 2012 at 12:37 am#312373

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ Sep. 09 2012,23:25)

the father is God
the son is God

You can say it as many times as you want, jammin.

If you think the Father is God Almighty, AND the Son is also God Almighty, then you believe in TWO God Almighties. There's really no way around it, because the word “AND” is a conjunction, and indicates that TWO (or more) are being spoken of.

September 11, 2012 at 12:41 am#312374

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Sep. 11 2012,11:00)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Sep. 11 2012,07:08)

Christianity has a paganistic triune “God” that are worship! :laugh:

One of this so-called “Holy Trinity” they refer to as being 'The Word of “God”'.

Trinity sminity! :laugh:

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

…

the apostles are christians

are you not christian??? oh yeah.. you are the pagan

jammit,

No, I am certainly not a Christian and I am certainly not a pagan. It is you and your fellow *cohorts who are clearly pagan in their following in paganistic Christian beliefs.

*cohort – 1. part of an ancient **ROMAN ***LEGION. There were from 300 to 600 soldiers in each cohort, and ten cohorts in each ***LEGION … Thorndike Barnhart Advanced Dictionary Second Edition by E. L. Thorndike/Clarence L. Barnhart, Scott, Foresman and Company ©1974 Scott, Foresman and Company, Greenview, Illinois (Emphasis in bold/underlining/capitalization mine.)

**NOTE:
Cf. “Holy ROMAN Catholic Church”
…
***LEGION:
Then Yahshua asked him [the evil spirit], “What is your name?” “My name is LEGION,” he replied, “for we are many” (Yahchanan Mark 5:9).

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

…

September 11, 2012 at 12:42 am#312375

Blocked

Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 10 2012,02:08)

Look Carmel what God is saying……………..

Good post, journey.

September 11, 2012 at 12:54 am#312376

Blocked

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Sep. 10 2012,18:08)

Isaiah 43:11 (King James Version) — I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

I'm surprised you used that one to illustrate your point, Frank. Since we know that Jesus is also called our Savior, and we know that Jesus is not Jehovah, then it proves the claim in Isaiah 43:11 to be an emphatic statement, and not a literal one.

Obviously, there have been many saviors – many of whom Jehovah Himself sent to His people. (Nehemiah 9:27)

So, knowing this from scripture, we can also know that Jehovah's statement was emphatical, and not literal.

Likewise, since we know the scriptures are loaded with “many gods, in heaven and on earth”, we can also know that Isaiah 44:6, 8, and 45:5 are emphatical (not literal) statements as well.

September 11, 2012 at 1:30 am#312380

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2012,11:54)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Sep. 10 2012,18:08)

Isaiah 43:11 (King James Version) — I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Obviously, there have been many saviors – many of whom Jehovah Himself sent to His people. (Nehemiah 9:27)

So, knowing this from scripture, we can also know that Jehovah's statement was emphatical, and not literal.

Likewise, since we know the scriptures are loaded with “many gods, in heaven and on earth”, we can also know that Isaiah 44:6, 8, and 45:5 are emphatical (not literal) statements as well.

Mike,

Why would you be surprised, since you know full well that I do not believe that Father Yahweh's son Yahshua pre-existed his birth as a “savior” and that I also believe that there is no other source of power (authority), strength or might [“god”] other than Father Yahweh “ALONE”, “BY HIMSELF” and with “NO OTHER BESIDE HIM”?

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92