JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Aug. 26 2012,03:36)

Mike, WHAT IS YOUR GOD MIKE???

The Spirit Being who created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them.

[mikeboll64]

Kerwin,

I agree with your post except for the part about God having a body.  I believe He does, and that we are taught as much many times in scripture.

But…………… how does your post answer the points I made in the quote box you included in your post?  

For example, are you able to understand that Jesus is called the Word of God, but Jesus is not the word of God that will be written on all men's hearts in the future? Do you understand that these teachings describe two different things that are called “the word of God”?

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2012,04:08)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 25 2012,19:22) Mike, Yes, Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word was MANIFEST (MADE KNOWN) in the flesh THROUGH (BY WAY OF) His son Yahshua! How many times do I have to tell you what it is that I believe before you get it through you thick head? This makes perfect sense to me! And how many times do I have to tell you that the word “IN” is not in John 1:14? John teaches us that the Word BECAME flesh – not that the Word “was manifested IN the flesh of God's Son Yahshua”. Your understanding relies upon ADDING a word to the scripture, Frank.  It is only one little word, but that word completely CHANGES the teaching.  Are you happy with CHANGING the teaching of John 1:14 so your doctrine comes out on top?

Mike,

My use of the word “in” was not in reference to or in substitution of the word “became” nor was I adding a word to Scripture, since I was not quoting Scripture in MY SAYING “Yes, Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word was MANIFEST (MADE KNOWN) in the flesh THROUGH (BY WAY OF) His son Yahshua! How many times do I have to tell you what it is that I believe before you get it through you thick head? This makes perfect sense to me!” This most certainly is not me quoting Scripture, but is instead ME STATING what it is that I believe in accordance with what Scripture clearly teaches.  Father Yahweh's word still became flesh and is MADE KNOWN (“manifested”) in His son Yahshua, since he is the spokesman of His word in this last time period. Father Yahweh's word was most certainly IN His son Yahshua. This is exactly what I was talking about in entering into an an endless dispute with you. All you do is continuously twist and pervert what I say and the inspired prophetic word of Father Yahweh. Scripturally speaking, you trample Father Yahweh's word under foot like the swine/dog that you obviously are.

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Yahshua is speaking to his and our Father Yahweh in Yahchanan [John] 17:5 about the ESTEEM (“GLORY”) that he had with his and our Father Yahweh before the world began. He is not speaking of his pre-existing with Him as an actual being. Following is an excerpt from a study much similar to other studies that I have presented here that explains in the same manner to what Yahshua was actually giving reference to:

In John 17:5 we read the following —

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

To the untrained mind it sounds as though this verse is upholding the teaching that the Messiah pre-existed before his fleshly birth. But, by comparing the Greek text to the English translation and then letting OTHER SCRIPTURES interpret this scripture for us, it becomes very obvious that this scripture was also TAMPERED WITH — TWISTED to fit prevailing pagan concepts!

The New International Version Greek-English New Testament by Alfred Marshall, shows the Greek word for word translation of this verse:

5. and now glorify me thou, Father, with thyself….with the glory which I had before the world to be with thee.

The first word underlined and translated “I HAD” is the IMPERFECT FORM of the Greek word “echo” — word #2192 in Strong's Greek Dictionary. This word means: to have to hold. However, Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament shows this word to mean: TO HAVE IN STORE! Notice —

…. to have a thing in readiness, have at hand, have in store:

Therefore, the word translated “I HAD” can — and should — have been translated “I AM TO HAVE.” This glory that the Messiah is said to have, is to be BEFORE the world TO COME.

The next word underlined — translated “BEFORE” — is word #4253 in Strong's, and means: PREVIOUSLY; that is, “PREVIOUS” to the world TO COME —

4253. …. pro, pro; a prim. prep.; “fore,” i.e. in front of, prior (fig. Superior) to:- above, ago, before, or ever. In comp. it retains the same significations.

The third word underlined — translated “TO BE” — is shown by A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament by Ethelbert W. Bullinger to mean “COME”:

elvai (pres. infinit.) to be, 33; be, 12; to have been, 1; have been, 1; that…am (art, is, are, be), 27; that…was (were), 10; had been, 1; that…may (might, should) be, 6; to be made, 1; come, 1.

Now let's read this verse in the way that it should have been translated —

And now, O Father, You glorify me beside Your own self, with the glory which I AM TO HAVE with You BEFORE the world to come.

The Messiah was only asking YEHOVAH God to glorify him beside the Father — or at the right hand of YEHOVAH's throne — with the glory that HE (YEHOVAH God) HAD IN STORE for him — BEFORE the Kingdom of God (YEHOVAH) and BEFORE the NEW WORLD that is to come.

The Messiah knew full well that he was to die and be resurrected by YEHOVAH God. He also knew that he was to be allowed to take his rightful place at the right side of YEHOVAH, and that is exactly what we find in the other scriptures that interpret this scripture. Notice Hebrews 1:1-3:

Therefore, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle (the one sent) and High Priest of our profession, Yeshua the Messiah; who was faithful to Him: YEHOVAH, Who BEGOT HIM, just as Moses was faithful in all his house. Now this one (the Messiah) was counted worthy of more GLORY than Moses, since he who has built the House of YEHOVAH has more honor than the House of YEHOVAH.

This GLORY was in fulfillment of Biblical prophecy — and this glory was only to BEGIN to take place in a certain time period. In the following verses we find written:

Hebrews 1:13: But to which of the angels has He (YEHOVAH) ever said: sit at my right hand — until I make your enemies your footstool?

Psalm 110:1: YEHOVAH said to my ruler and king: sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.

1 Peter 1:11: Examining closely to what things, or what manner of season, which the spirit that was in them made clear to them, when it testified BEFOREHAND to the sufferings of Messiah, and the GLORY THAT WOULD FOLLOW.

1 Peter 5:1: The elders who are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of the Messiah, and ALSO A PARTAKER of the GLORY THAT WILL BE REVEALED:

We must realize that we too can look forward to this SAME glory that the Messiah will receive. Just as the apostles looked forward to this glory, so should we. Notice 2 Peter 1:3:

As His holy power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and holiness, through the full knowledge of Him Who called US to GLORY and virtue.

This was the very glory that the Messiah was talking about — glory he knew he would receive because it was written in the prophets! He knew he would RECEIVE this glory AFTER HIS RESURRECTION — he did not have this glory before his human birth! Yeshua the Messiah, as the only BEGOTTEN son of YEHOVAH God, will always have the honor of being at his Father's right hand — but he did not receive this honor (glory) until AFTER his resurrection!

The word translated “glory” is word #1391 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon, and means:

2. magnificence, excellence, preeminence, dignity, a most glorious condition, most exalted state; a. of that condition with God the Father in heaven to which Christ was raised after he had achieved his work on earth: Lk. xxai. 26; Jn. xvii. 5

As the Bible says, the Messiah will receive his glory and then his enemies will be made his footstool. In 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 we clearly see that the last enemy that will be destroyed is DEATH — but we also can see that YEHOVAH God will always be exalted as THE SUPREME HEAD over ALL, even by Yeshua himself, who sits at YEHOVAH's right hand —

Then the end, when he (the Messiah) will have handed over the Kingdom to YEHOVAH, to our Father, when he (the Messiah) will have destroyed every other rule, and every authority and power. For he (the Messiah) MUST REIGN until he has put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For YEHOVAH has put all things under his feet. But when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE YEHOVAH HIMSELF, Who put everything under Yeshua. When He has done this, then the son himself WILL BE SUBJECT TO HIM Who put all things under him, so that YEHOVAH may be acknowledged as THE SUPREME HEAD OVER ALL.

Clearly, when the Messiah appears on this earth again (as pictured in Revelation 10) he will have all authority to destroy all other rules, authorities and powers. He will reign on earth until he has put all enemies under his feet and then, when YEHOVAH's Shekinah Glory returns to this earth (Revelation 19:11) to reside in the Temple built by the Messiah, the Messiah will hand all power over to Him and become subject to Him — acknowledging that YEHOVAH God is the SUPREME HEAD over ALL. Yeshua the Messiah will then become our High Priest, ministering to YEHOVAH his Father in the Temple of YEHOVAH God!

The Messiah was NOT speaking of “past glory”, nor of a “past life” — as count-less deceived people have believed. Unfortunately, people are deceived because of the pagan lies that the translators have inserted into the scriptures! The Messiah was speaking of the glory he WAS to RECEIVE after he was resurrected; the glory of the only BEGOTTEN son of the Father, full of mercy and truth!

The glory of being the ONLY begotten son of YEHOVAH — the FIRSTBORN from the dead, is the glory the Messi
ah has NOW, and will forevermore have! But — and let this sink in – the Messiah DID NOT have this glory previously, because he simply DID NOT EXIST before he was begotten by YEHOVAH God and born as a flesh and blood human being! Read 1 Peter 1:19-20:

But with the precious blood of Messiah, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who truly was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was MANIFEST in these last times for you; who through him we do believe in YEHOVAH, who raised him up from the dead, and GAVE HIM GLORY; that your faith and hope might be in YEHOVAH.
SOURCE:
12 Proofs the Messiah DID NOT Pre-Exist!
The plan of YEHOVAH God has been overlooked by the people in this world because they have accepted the PAGAN DOCTRINE of a pre-existent savior who did it all for them — which has been taught to them by the SERVANTS OF SATAN! This pagan doctrine was contrived for the purpose of BLINDING people's minds to the TRUE Savior sent by YEHOVAH, and to YEHOVAH's true plan of bringing His sons to perfection. The following proofs show that Yeshua the Messiah NEVER EXISTED prior to his human birth in Bethlehem two thousand years ago.
John D. Keyser

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2012,04:08)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 25 2012,19:22) Mike, Yes, Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word was MANIFEST (MADE KNOWN) in the flesh THROUGH (BY WAY OF) His son Yahshua! How many times do I have to tell you what it is that I believe before you get it through you thick head? This makes perfect sense to me! And how many times do I have to tell you that the word “IN” is not in John 1:14?

“God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” (2 Cor 5:19)

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2012,04:11)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 25 2012,19:29) Mike, FACT: Nowhere in Scripture does it actually teach that Father Yahweh's word was an actual being that was with Him in the beginning and was “a god”! Sure it does – in MANY places.  Here's just one of them: John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. If THE BEING Jesus said that HE had glory in God's presence before the world began, then it is clear that THE BEING Jesus DID have glory in God's presence before the world began.  Either that, or your Lord lied to you, Frank.  Which is it?

Yahshua is speaking to his and our Father Yahweh in Yahchanan [John] 17:5 about the ESTEEM (“GLORY”) that he had with his and our Father Yahweh before the world began. He is not speaking of his pre-existing with Him as an actual being. Following is an excerpt from a study much similar to other studies that I have presented here that explains in the same manner to what Yahshua was actually giving reference to:

In John 17:5 we read the following —

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

To the untrained mind it sounds as though this verse is upholding the teaching that the Messiah pre-existed before his fleshly birth. But, by comparing the Greek text to the English translation and then letting OTHER SCRIPTURES interpret this scripture for us, it becomes very obvious that this scripture was also TAMPERED WITH — TWISTED to fit prevailing pagan concepts!

The New International Version Greek-English New Testament by Alfred Marshall, shows the Greek word for word translation of this verse:

5. and now glorify me thou, Father, with thyself….with the glory which I had before the world to be with thee.

The first word underlined and translated “I HAD” is the IMPERFECT FORM of the Greek word “echo” — word #2192 in Strong's Greek Dictionary. This word means: to have to hold. However, Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament shows this word to mean: TO HAVE IN STORE! Notice —

…. to have a thing in readiness, have at hand, have in store:

Therefore, the word translated “I HAD” can — and should — have been translated “I AM TO HAVE.” This glory that the Messiah is said to have, is to be BEFORE the world TO COME.

The next word underlined — translated “BEFORE” — is word #4253 in Strong's, and means: PREVIOUSLY; that is, “PREVIOUS” to the world TO COME —

4253. …. pro, pro; a prim. prep.; “fore,” i.e. in front of, prior (fig. Superior) to:- above, ago, before, or ever. In comp. it retains the same significations.

The third word underlined — translated “TO BE” — is shown by A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament by Ethelbert W. Bullinger to mean “COME”:

elvai (pres. infinit.) to be, 33; be, 12; to have been, 1; have been, 1; that…am (art, is, are, be), 27; that…was (were), 10; had been, 1; that…may (might, should) be, 6; to be made, 1; come, 1.

Now let's read this verse in the way that it should have been translated —

And now, O Father, You glorify me beside Your own self, with the glory which I AM TO HAVE with You BEFORE the world to come.

The Messiah was only asking YEHOVAH God to glorify him beside the Father — or at the right hand of YEHOVAH's throne — with the glory that HE (YEHOVAH God) HAD IN STORE for him — BEFORE the Kingdom of God (YEHOVAH) and BEFORE the NEW WORLD that is to come.

The Messiah knew full well that he was to die and be resurrected by YEHOVAH God. He also knew that he was to be allowed to take his rightful place at the right side of YEHOVAH, and that is exactly what we find in the other scriptures that interpret this scripture. Notice Hebrews 1:1-3:

Therefore, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle (the one sent) and High Priest of our profession, Yeshua the Messiah; who was faithful to Him: YEHOVAH, Who BEGOT HIM, just as Moses was faithful in all his house. Now this one (the Messiah) was counted worthy of more GLORY than Moses, since he who has built the House of YEHOVAH has more honor than the House of YEHOVAH.

This GLORY was in fulfillment of Biblical prophecy — and this glory was only to BEGIN to take place in a certain time period. In the following verses we find written:

Hebrews 1:13: But to which of the angels has He (YEHOVAH) ever said: sit at my right hand — until I make your enemies your footstool?

Psalm 110:1: YEHOVAH said to my ruler and king: sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.

1 Peter 1:11: Examining closely to what things, or what manner of season, which the spirit that was in them made clear to them, when it testified BEFOREHAND to the sufferings of Messiah, and the GLORY THAT WOULD FOLLOW.

1 Peter 5:1: The elders who are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of the Messiah, and ALSO A PARTAKER of the GLORY THAT WILL BE REVEALED:

We must realize that we too can look forward to this SAME glory that the Messiah will receive. Just as the apostles looked forward to this glory, so should we. Notice 2 Peter 1:3:

As His holy power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and holiness, through the full knowledge of Him Who called US to GLORY and virtue.

This was the very glory that the Messiah was talking about — glory he knew he would receive because it was written in the prophets! He knew he would RECEIVE this glory AFTER HIS RESURRECTION — he did not have this glory before his human birth! Yeshua the Messiah, as the only BEGOTTEN son of YEHOVAH God, will always have the honor of being at his Father's right hand — but he did not receive this honor (glory) until AFTER his resurrection!

The word translated “glory” is word #1391 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon, and means:

2. magnificence, excellence, preeminence, dignity, a most glorious condition, most exalted state; a. of that condition with God the Father in heaven to which Christ was raised after he had achieved his work on earth: Lk. xxai. 26; Jn. xvii. 5

As the Bible says, the Messiah will receive his glory and then his enemies will be made his footstool. In 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 we clearly see that the last enemy that will be destroyed is DEATH — but we also can see that YEHOVAH God will always be exalted as THE SUPREME HEAD over ALL, even by Yeshua himself, who sits at YEHOVAH's right hand —

Then the end, when he (the Messiah) will have handed over the Kingdom to YEHOVAH, to our Father, when he (the Messiah) will have destroyed every other rule, and every authority and power. For he (the Messiah) MUST REIGN until he has put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For YEHOVAH has put all things under his feet. But when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE YEHOVAH HIMSELF, Who put everything under Yeshua. When He has done this, then the son himself WILL BE SUBJECT TO HIM Who put all things under him,
so that YEHOVAH may be acknowledged as THE SUPREME HEAD OVER ALL.

Clearly, when the Messiah appears on this earth again (as pictured in Revelation 10) he will have all authority to destroy all other rules, authorities and powers. He will reign on earth until he has put all enemies under his feet and then, when YEHOVAH's Shekinah Glory returns to this earth (Revelation 19:11) to reside in the Temple built by the Messiah, the Messiah will hand all power over to Him and become subject to Him — acknowledging that YEHOVAH God is the SUPREME HEAD over ALL. Yeshua the Messiah will then become our High Priest, ministering to YEHOVAH his Father in the Temple of YEHOVAH God!

The Messiah was NOT speaking of “past glory”, nor of a “past life” — as count-less deceived people have believed. Unfortunately, people are deceived because of the pagan lies that the translators have inserted into the scriptures! The Messiah was speaking of the glory he WAS to RECEIVE after he was resurrected; the glory of the only BEGOTTEN son of the Father, full of mercy and truth!

The glory of being the ONLY begotten son of YEHOVAH — the FIRSTBORN from the dead, is the glory the Messiah has NOW, and will forevermore have! But — and let this sink in – the Messiah DID NOT have this glory previously, because he simply DID NOT EXIST before he was begotten by YEHOVAH God and born as a flesh and blood human being! Read 1 Peter 1:19-20:

But with the precious blood of Messiah, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who truly was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was MANIFEST in these last times for you; who through him we do believe in YEHOVAH, who raised him up from the dead, and GAVE HIM GLORY; that your faith and hope might be in YEHOVAH.
SOURCE:
12 Proofs the Messiah DID NOT Pre-Exist!
The plan of YEHOVAH God has been overlooked by the people in this world because they have accepted the PAGAN DOCTRINE of a pre-existent savior who did it all for them — which has been taught to them by the SERVANTS OF SATAN! This pagan doctrine was contrived for the purpose of BLINDING people's minds to the TRUE Savior sent by YEHOVAH, and to YEHOVAH's true plan of bringing His sons to perfection. The following proofs show that Yeshua the Messiah NEVER EXISTED prior to his human birth in Bethlehem two thousand years ago.
John D. Keyser

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 27 2012,07:37)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2012,04:08) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 25 2012,19:22) Mike, Yes, Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word was MANIFEST (MADE KNOWN) in the flesh THROUGH (BY WAY OF) His son Yahshua! How many times do I have to tell you what it is that I believe before you get it through you thick head? This makes perfect sense to me! And how many times do I have to tell you that the word “IN” is not in John 1:14? “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” (2 Cor 5:19)

kerwin,

TWO THUMBS WAY UP!

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[carmel]

mikeboll64,Aug. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

The Spirit Being who created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them

MIKE,

ARE YOU CONFIRMING THAT GOD CANNOT BE VISIBLE??

[terraricca]

Quote (carmel @ Aug. 27 2012,15:16)

mikeboll64,Aug. wrote: [/quote] Quote The Spirit Being who created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them MIKE, ARE YOU CONFIRMING THAT GOD CANNOT BE VISIBLE??

yes, i do

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2012,04:13)

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 25 2012,19:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2012,03:37) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 25 2012,06:03) the bible said that Christ BECAME FLESH BUT BEFORE THAT, HE WAS IN THE FORM OF GOD. That's right, jammin. Jesus was in the form OF God.  Those words mean that Jesus was someone OTHER THAN God. that is just your illusion again mike.i did not say that the father is the son. the son is not the father. the father is not the son. Well jammin, If the Son is not the Father, and 1 Cor 8:6 teaches us that our one God is the Father, and Jesus teaches us the the Father is the only true God, what's left for you? If the Father is God, and Jesus is NOT the Father, what does that tell you?

i have a pending question for you. why are you afraid to answer the question boy?? LOL

ill repeat
are you in the form of MAN?? does it mean that you are not MAN if you have the form/nature of MAN?

yes or no???

are you an animal mike??? yes or no?
———-

btw, Christ told that the we have ONE FATHER who is Truly God.

let me post john 17.3
John 17:3

New International Version (NIV)

3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

i believe that there is ONE father who is Truly God.

how about you boy??? do you have TWO FATHERS WHO ARE TRULY GOD???

the bible also said that the son is Truly God!
ONE and ONLY SON who is Truly God.

John 1:18

New International Version (NIV)

18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

1 John 5:20

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

20 We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

study hard boy LOL

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2012,08:43)

Quote (carmel @ Aug. 27 2012,15:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2012,04:15) Quote The Spirit Being who created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them MIKE, ARE YOU CONFIRMING THAT GOD CANNOT BE VISIBLE?? yes, i do

Pierre,

Why do you respond to a question that was directed to Mike? Maybe you should respond to Richard on the Bible Wheel Forum after your asking him where his response was back some time ago (5-17-2010). He has been waiting for your response for quite some time I believe, right?

Following is his response to you and a link to the thread follows:

Quote

Hi Pierre, Sorry for the slow response. What is your native tongue? I notice you are writing phonetically. For example, you wrote “be on are” for “beyond our” in this sentence “God is spirit and powerful be on are wildest imagination” I find that very interesting. But also, it makes conversation a bit challenging. Now I notice that you are sharing your ideas – like your idea that the word had a beginning, and that Christ is our “god” like Moses was a “god” to Aaron. That's fine, but it seems like the conversation is just going to wander around one idea here and one idea there. I would prefer a more systematic approach. For example, we should be looking at the best and most powerful arguments for our two positions: You show me the best argument against some aspect of the Trinity, and I will show you the best argument for some aspect of the Trinity. This can be very interesting. For example, one of the strongest arguments for the pre-existence of Christ (a fundamental aspect of the Trinity) is found in John 17: John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. What glory did Christ have with the Father “before the world was” if he did not exist? On the other had, in a fascinating twist of irony, this same passage yields one of the strongest arguments against the Trinity: John 17:20 I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 “that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 “And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 “I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. The word “just as” (kathos) means that we are one with God in the same way that Christ is one with God. Obviously, we are not part of a Gazzillionty – a Godhead made up of gazzillions of separate believers. This is the approach I would like us to take. We each present the best arguments whether they support our case or not. That's how a properly functioning mind really works. Richard

SOURCE:
http://www.biblewheel.com/forum….e3

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 27 2012,11:52)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2012,08:43) Quote (carmel @ Aug. 27 2012,15:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2012,04:15) Quote The Spirit Being who created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them MIKE, ARE YOU CONFIRMING THAT GOD CANNOT BE VISIBLE?? yes, i do Pierre, Why do you respond to a question that was directed to Mike? Maybe you should respond to Richard on the Bible Wheel Forum after your asking him where his response was back some time ago (5-17-2010). He has been waiting for your response for quite some time I believe, right? Following is his response to you and a link to the thread follows: Quote Hi Pierre, Sorry for the slow response. What is your native tongue? I notice you are writing phonetically. For example, you wrote “be on are” for “beyond our” in this sentence “God is spirit and powerful be on are wildest imagination” I find that very interesting. But also, it makes conversation a bit challenging. Now I notice that you are sharing your ideas – like your idea that the word had a beginning, and that Christ is our “god” like Moses was a “god” to Aaron. That's fine, but it seems like the conversation is just going to wander around one idea here and one idea there. I would prefer a more systematic approach. For example, we should be looking at the best and most powerful arguments for our two positions: You show me the best argument against some aspect of the Trinity, and I will show you the best argument for some aspect of the Trinity. This can be very interesting. For example, one of the strongest arguments for the pre-existence of Christ (a fundamental aspect of the Trinity) is found in John 17: John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. What glory did Christ have with the Father “before the world was” if he did not exist? On the other had, in a fascinating twist of irony, this same passage yields one of the strongest arguments against the Trinity: John 17:20 I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 “that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 “And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 “I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. The word “just as” (kathos) means that we are one with God in the same way that Christ is one with God. Obviously, we are not part of a Gazzillionty – a Godhead made up of gazzillions of separate believers. This is the approach I would like us to take. We each present the best arguments whether they support our case or not. That's how a properly functioning mind really works. Richard SOURCE: http://www.biblewheel.com/forum….e3 …

Pierre,

BTW, I am also a member of the Bible Wheel Forum and would also find your response to Richard quite interesting in accordance with Richard's instruction of what he refers to a “more systematic approach.” I will also now be waiting for your response on this Bible Wheel Forum thread, since Richard has made an excellent point on “how a properly functioning mind really works” as he has so eloquently put it.  

Or maybe this would be too much of a real challenge for you and you would rather stay here and have a “conversation [that just goes] wander[ing] around [with] one idea here and one idea there” as Richard has also so eloquently put it and is what obviously what goes on in this forum   

WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter One

ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98

The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92

Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

“Jesus IS God!”?

…

[Ed J]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 27 2012,07:47)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 27 2012,07:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2012,04:08) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 25 2012,19:22) Mike, Yes, Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word was MANIFEST (MADE KNOWN) in the flesh THROUGH (BY WAY OF) His son Yahshua! How many times do I have to tell you what it is that I believe before you get it through you thick head? This makes perfect sense to me! And how many times do I have to tell you that the word “IN” is not in John 1:14? “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” (2 Cor 5:19) kerwin, TWO THUMBS WAY UP! …

[jammin]

these people are putting their own words in the bible.
there is no “IN” in john 1.1 and 1.14

why dont you make your own bible boys LOL

john did not say in john 1.1 that God was in Christ.
john did not say in john 1.14 that God was in Christ.

these people are really blind.
they are jumping to the other verse to support their illusion but if you read the context of john 1.1-14, john is talking about the Christ who is God by nature and became flesh. john is saying that the Word in john 1.1 is a title for Christ. the Word is the name of Christ. he is called the Word. john also said this in rev 19.13
John 1:1

Contemporary English Version (CEV)
The Word of Life

1 In the beginning was the one
who is called the Word.
The Word was with God
and was truly God.

Revelation 19:13

Contemporary English Version (CEV)

13 The rider wore a robe that was covered with[a] blood, and he was known as “The Word of God.”

John 1:1

Amplified Bible (AMP)

1 In the beginning [before all time] was the Word ([a]Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.

make your own bible boys LOL

[terraricca]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 27 2012,18:52)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2012,08:43) Quote (carmel @ Aug. 27 2012,15:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2012,04:15) Quote The Spirit Being who created the heavens, the earth, and everything in them MIKE, ARE YOU CONFIRMING THAT GOD CANNOT BE VISIBLE?? yes, i do Pierre, Why do you respond to a question that was directed to Mike? Maybe you should respond to Richard on the Bible Wheel Forum after your asking him where his response was back some time ago (5-17-2010). He has been waiting for your response for quite some time I believe, right? Following is his response to you and a link to the thread follows: Quote Hi Pierre, Sorry for the slow response. What is your native tongue? I notice you are writing phonetically. For example, you wrote “be on are” for “beyond our” in this sentence “God is spirit and powerful be on are wildest imagination” I find that very interesting. But also, it makes conversation a bit challenging. Now I notice that you are sharing your ideas – like your idea that the word had a beginning, and that Christ is our “god” like Moses was a “god” to Aaron. That's fine, but it seems like the conversation is just going to wander around one idea here and one idea there. I would prefer a more systematic approach. For example, we should be looking at the best and most powerful arguments for our two positions: You show me the best argument against some aspect of the Trinity, and I will show you the best argument for some aspect of the Trinity. This can be very interesting. For example, one of the strongest arguments for the pre-existence of Christ (a fundamental aspect of the Trinity) is found in John 17: John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. What glory did Christ have with the Father “before the world was” if he did not exist? On the other had, in a fascinating twist of irony, this same passage yields one of the strongest arguments against the Trinity: John 17:20 I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 “that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 “And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 “I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. The word “just as” (kathos) means that we are one with God in the same way that Christ is one with God. Obviously, we are not part of a Gazzillionty – a Godhead made up of gazzillions of separate believers. This is the approach I would like us to take. We each present the best arguments whether they support our case or not. That's how a properly functioning mind really works. Richard SOURCE: http://www.biblewheel.com/forum….e3 …

F

well my name appears on top any way ;

but yes you right I should have done it the way you describe it ,and yes I will pay closer attention so it not happen again

and as for the other quote ,this is long time ago May 2010 ,I left that forum I believe soon after that ,

and forgot all about it ,then I found this one ;this forum I LIKE,I also like what it stand for ,

[Ed J]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 27 2012,14:12)

these people are putting their own words in the bible. there is no “IN” in john 1.1 and 1.14 why dont you make your own bible boys LOL

Hi Jammin,

What (according to YOU) is the Apostle Paul then saying in 2 Cor 5:19?       …if it not an alternate account of John 1:14?

“God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” (2 Cor 5:19)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 27 2012,14:26)

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 27 2012,14:12) these people are putting their own words in the bible. there is no “IN” in john 1.1 and 1.14 why dont you make your own bible boys LOL Hi Jammin, What (according to YOU) is the Apostle Paul then saying in 2 Cor 5:19?       …if it not an alternate account of John 1:14? “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” (2 Cor 5:19) God bless Ed J

Hi Jammin,

Then when you connect Acts 10:38 to them, a bigger picture begins to emerge.
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the HolySpirit and with power (making him The Christ):
who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was [with(in)] him.” (Acts 10:38)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Mike,

The thing is that only created beings have bodies; even the naked body of a ghost; or the bodies of angels and demons.    Bodies are created and God is not.  Solomon even teaches us that a temple; much less a body can contain God.  Jesus can obviously not be the offspring of God’s body because God does not have a body; nor is that how Scripture states he fathers children.

Genesis 16:7-13
American Standard Version (ASV)

7 And the angel of Jehovah found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's handmaid, whence camest thou? and whither goest thou? And she said, I am fleeing from the face of my mistress Sarai.
9 And the angel of Jehovah said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
10 And the angel of Jehovah said unto her, I will greatly multiply thy seed, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
11 And the angel of Jehovah said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son; and thou shalt call his name Ishmael, because Jehovah hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he shall be as a wild ass among men; his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell over against all his brethren.
13 And she called the name of Jehovah that spake unto her, Thou art a God that seeth: for she said, Have I even here looked after him that seeth me?

Hagar states she saw Jehovah; even though it was literally one of his angels she saw.   Hagar knew that Jehovah dwelled inside his Messenger; even though he is not contained within that body; as is that Messenger’s soul.

John 1
American Standard Version (ASV)

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jesus received him and gained the right to become a child of God, believing on his name, being born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

This is what Scripture states about God fathering children:

Galatians 4:6
American Standard Version (ASV)

6 And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

That Spirit of God’s Son writes the Word on the hearts of believers into who it is sent.   It is that Spirit that Hagar saw in the Messenger that Jehovah sent to her; and the same Spirit that God places on his servant Jesus.

Since Jesus receives him, he clearly cannot be him.  If we deny that Jesus receives him then we deny that Jesus is a child of God.  

Jesus is called by the name of the Word of God because he is the incarnation of God’s Word; even to being the one by whom the Word is written on the hearts of men and to whom the angels, such as the one Hagar saw, have been submitted.

[jammin]

ed,

i do not have a problem with 2cor. do not put your own imagination to paul's words

i want you to read your imagination in john 1.1-14
can you read john said God was in Christ in john 1.1 and 1.14
yes or no?

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ Aug. 27 2012,14:09)

ed, i do not have a problem with 2cor. do not put your own imagination to paul's words i want you to read your imagination in john 1.1-14 can you read john said God was in Christ in john 1.1 and 1.14 yes or no?

Jammin,

You are deceived about John's words as it is clear that Jesus received the light that is in the Word and so gained the right to become a child of God, believing on his name, being born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

It is clear because is the Son of God; and the one by whom all those that believe are adopted as sons. Since his reception of the light that is in the Word makes him the Son of God he is not the light but he is the one by whom the light enters into the world.

[Author]

Posts