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Quote (jammin @ Aug. 19 2012,21:05) 18 θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε μονογενης θεος the greek says monogenes theos. God the only son
jammin,In the ms you quoted, it says “only begotten god”. The word “son” (huios) isn't even in those Greek words you posted.
The word “theos” in Yahchanan [John] 1:1 does NOT refer to the person of Yahshua Messiah as a pre-eistent being that was with his and our Father Yahweh in the beginning!
ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter OneDid Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 20 2012,02:01) Jesus is the first as the Spirit was put on him and he is the way others have the Word placed in them.
Kerwin,In YOUR understanding, John 1:14 would have to say “the Word CAME TO BE IN SOMEONE WHO WAS ALREADY FLESH”.
Unfortunately for your understanding, John 1:14 says “the Word BECAME flesh”.
Your understanding has you ADDING your own words into the scripture – words that completely ALTER the meaning of the verse. It would be better for you to find a DIFFERENT understanding – one that doesn't have you altering God's written word.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 20 2012,14:56) Mike, It would be deceptive to acknowledge such possibilities!
Could you tell me WHY, Frank?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,08:24) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 20 2012,14:56) Mike, It would be deceptive to acknowledge such possibilities!
Could you tell me WHY, Frank?
Mike,Because Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being. Is not this what you have been lead to deceptively believe and what you are attempting others to deceptively believe?
ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter OneDid Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,22:53) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 20 2012,20:43) Hi Jammin, That's not what the bible says.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ed,really???
REALLY!Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,08:17) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 20 2012,02:01) Jesus is the first as the Spirit was put on him and he is the way others have the Word placed in them.
Kerwin,In YOUR understanding, John 1:14 would have to say “the Word CAME TO BE IN SOMEONE WHO WAS ALREADY FLESH”.
Unfortunately for your understanding, John 1:14 says “the Word BECAME flesh”.
Your understanding has you ADDING your own words into the scripture – words that completely ALTER the meaning of the verse. It would be better for you to find a DIFFERENT understanding – one that doesn't have you altering God's written word.
Mike,The fact is, “the Word [DID COME] TO BE IN SOMEONE [YAHSHUA] WHO WAS ALREADY FLESH”.
Unfortunately for your understanding, Yahchanan [John] 1:14 says “the Word BECAME flesh”.
It certainly does not say 'The word became flesh because Yahshua pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh as “a god” and as Father Yahweh's word.'
Your understanding has you ADDING your own words into the Scripture – words that completely ALTER the meaning of the verse. It would be better for you to find a DIFFERENT understanding – one that doesn't have you altering translations of Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word.
ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
Exodus 32
By Voy Wilks
3/9/98The Pre-existence
Philippians 2:5-11
By Voy Wilks
1/29/92WHO IS THE WORD?
John Chapter OneDid Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,08:24) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 20 2012,14:56) Mike, It would be deceptive to acknowledge such possibilities!
Could you tell me WHY, Frank?
Hi Mike,Because that is not the bible's message.
The bible's message is that there are no other gods.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 21 2012,10:07) It certainly does not say 'The word became flesh because Yahshua pre-existed in the beginning with his and our Father Yahweh as “a god” and as Father Yahweh's word.' 
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,08:07) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 19 2012,21:05) 18 θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε μονογενης θεος the greek says monogenes theos. God the only son
jammin,In the ms you quoted, it says “only begotten god”. The word “son” (huios) isn't even in those Greek words you posted.
lolmonogenes also means only son boy
LOL
study greek mike before talking to me LOL
you do not know the language. i suggest you go to school mike LOL LOL LOL LOL
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 21 2012,10:02) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,22:53) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 20 2012,20:43) Hi Jammin, That's not what the bible says.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ed,really???
REALLY!
do not be a hard headed edjif you cant read your opinion then stop talking. may God open your eyes
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,08:04) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 19 2012,21:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2012,13:28) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 19 2012,18:11) most greek scholars agree that the john 1.1 should be translated was God and not a god.
Yes jammin.
tnx for that answer. you agree now that most scholars agree that the right translation for john 1.1 is was God and not a god.
My question was simple, jammin. Do you acknowledge that there are THREE grammatical ways to translate John 1:1c? YES or NO?
you agree that most scholars believe that the right translation in john 1.1 is was God and not a god.i told you to go to school mike. dont you have money to pay the school?
that is for your own good.talk to me if you have enough knowledge in greek.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 20 2012,16:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,08:24) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 20 2012,14:56) Mike, It would be deceptive to acknowledge such possibilities!
Could you tell me WHY, Frank?
Mike,Because Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being.
Wow Frank. That's a pretty cynical stance – being afraid to even consider the FACTS of the matter, just because those facts might go against your doctrine.(Oh, and btw, no one “deceived me” about scriptural truth. I was an atheist who read the Bible for the first time about 3 years ago. I read it by myself, alone. Since then I've read it 3 more times, and have just started again for the 5th time. When I joined this site, it was to scripturally disprove the Trinity Doctrine. I seriously had no idea, in all my 47 years, that there even existed people who thought Jesus didn't pre-exist his flesh. One time, I checked out the “Pre-Existence” thread, just to see what it even meant. I was SHOCKED to learn that people who claimed to have read the Bible could believe such an asinine thing that flies in the face of SO many scriptures.
Yet here we are, a couple of years later.
)Now Frank, why not put your personal doctrine aside for just a second, and consider the facts about the translation of John 1:1c from Greek to English. It is an undeniable FACT that there are THREE ways it can be translated into English. There is nothing to be “deceived” about, for it is simply grammatical translational FACTS I'm trying to discuss with you.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 20 2012,17:07) Mike, 1. The fact is, “the Word [DID COME] TO BE IN SOMEONE [YAHSHUA] WHO WAS ALREADY FLESH”.
2. Unfortunately for your understanding, Yahchanan [John] 1:14 says “the Word BECAME flesh”.
Frank,1. Can you show me the word “IN” in the Greek text of John 1:14?
2. Yes, that is the correct translation of 1:14.
Jesus is the Word + The Word became flesh = Jesus became flesh and dwelled among us with the only possible glory he could have had as God's only begotten Son.
Do YOU know what glory the Word dwelled among us with, Frank? (Hint: John 1:14)
Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,17:37) monogenes also means only son boy LOL
study greek mike before talking to me LOL
Guess again, Mr. Greek expert.(You can ask for help.)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,08:07) Quote (jammin @ Aug. 19 2012,21:05) 18 θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε μονογενης θεος the greek says monogenes theos. God the only son
jammin,In the ms you quoted, it says “only begotten god”. The word “son” (huios) isn't even in those Greek words you posted.
btwit is not god but God.
make your own bible LOL
Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,17:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,08:04) My question was simple, jammin. Do you acknowledge that there are THREE grammatical ways to translate John 1:1c? YES or NO?
you agree that most scholars believe that the right translation in john 1.1 is was God and not a god.
But these are the same TRINITARIAN scholars who illogically conclude that the Son OF God can BE the very God he is the Son OF, jammin. Why would you want to believe those knuckleheads?But, to make you happy, I'll add these two TRINITARIAN Greek experts to the 25 TRINITARIAN scholars of NETNotes, whom I've already quoted:
Murray J. Harris has written: “Accordingly, from the point of view of grammar alone, [QEOS HN hO LOGOS] could be rendered “the Word was a god,….” -Jesus As God, 1992, p. 60.
C. H. Dodd says: “If a translation were a matter of substituting words, a possible translation of [QEOS EN hO LOGOS]; would be, “The Word was a god”. As a word-for-word translation it cannot be faulted.”
Those two guys are hardcore TRINITARIANS, jammin.
All I'm asking from you and Frank is to ADMIT what is already known FACT. Yet, you guys run away with your ears plugged and your eyes covered – as if you can somehow hide under the covers from these FACTS.
But the facts are still there, nonetheless, jammin.
Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,18:04) LOL sorry mike but i think you should really go to school mike.
that is for your own good.
jammin,This is just “trash talk”. It often comes into play on this forum when certain people can't actually confirm or support the things they claim. When it comes to the point that they know they can't actually answer the questions asked by others (like the three questions limjunis has REPEATEDLY asked you), then those of us who are “small minded” resort to trash talking in an effort to divert peoples' attention away from the fact that they simply can't answer the questions or address the points.
There really is no room for this kind of stuff on a Christian scriptural discussion forum, is there?
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