JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 06 2012,07:20)

2) The LORD means “The Owner”, and that is JEHOVAH. Jesus is JEHOVAH's son, and that makes Jesus owner.

So then Jesus isn't LITERALLY the ONLY lord in existence after all, huh? So what then does Paul mean by the words, “..and one Lord, Jesus Christ……..”?

[mikeboll64]

Hi Ed,

First, you said this:

Quote (Ed J @ May 31 2012,19:29)

Why do you work to discredit Isa 44:8? “Ye are even my witnesses. Is there 'a God' beside me? yea, there is 'no God'; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8) God bless Ed J

Then, you said this:

Quote (Ed J @ June 05 2012,02:13)

Hi Mike, There are other ĔL-ō-Hêêms………..

First of all, we don't have to add the “s” to elohim, because the “im” signifies that the word is plural.

But let's look at the scripture YOU quoted again:
“Ye are even my witnesses.
Is there an elohim beside me? yea,
there is no elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8)

Hmmmm………….  It seems that Jehovah Himself clearly said that there were NO ELOHIM besides Him.  Yet YOU said, “There are other ĔL-ō-Hêêms……..”

So I have to ask:  Why do you work to discredit Isa 44:8?

[mikeboll64]

Kerwin,

I believe you overlooked this post from page 353:

I should have phrased that differently. What I want to know is:

To WHAT does the title “the Word of God” refer in Rev 19:13? Does that phrase refer to literal words that God has spoken? Or to God's main spokesman?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,10:01)

Quote (Ed J @ June 06 2012,07:20) 2) The LORD means “The Owner”, and that is JEHOVAH. Jesus is JEHOVAH's son, and that makes Jesus owner. So then Jesus isn't LITERALLY the ONLY lord in existence after all, huh?  So what then does Paul mean by the words, “..and one Lord, Jesus Christ……..”?

Hi Mike,

Did you not comprehend my post?
The answer is contained therein.

JEHOVAH is the owner of the universe.
Jesus bought and paid for our redemption.

There are Lords of Governments, houses, ect.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,10:16)

Hi Ed, First, you said this: Quote (Ed J @ May 31 2012,19:29) Why do you work to discredit Isa 44:8? “Ye are even my witnesses. Is there 'a God' beside me? yea, there is 'no God'; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8) God bless Ed J Then, you said this: Quote (Ed J @ June 05 2012,02:13) Hi Mike, There are other ĔL-ō-Hêêms……….. First of all, we don't have to add the “s” to elohim, because the “im” signifies that the word is plural. But let's look at the scripture YOU quoted again: “Ye are even my witnesses. Is there an elohim beside me? yea, there is no elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8) Hmmmm………….  It seems that Jehovah Himself clearly said that there were NO ELOHIM besides Him.  Yet YOU said, “There are other ĔL-ō-Hêêms……..” So I have to ask:  Why do you work to discredit Isa 44:8?

Hi Mike, that is why YHVH uses the “AKJV Bible” to interpret
Note: translate and interpret are from the same Greek word.

Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (in the AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever.
Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue(that is English) will he speak to this people.

1Cor.14:27 (AKJV) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two(Hebrew, Aramaic),
or at the most by three(Greek), and that by course; [and let one (“AKJV Bible”) translate].

The “AKJV Bible” we have today was no accident, it's exactly the way GOD wanted it!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2012,13:10)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 05 2012,20:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2012,12:16) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 05 2012,18:42) Mike, There Is A True Mighty One And There Are False Mighty Ones All other so-called “Gods” are nothing but mere idols Frank, Can you find the phrase “false god” or “so-called god” in any scripture? 2 Kings 3:27 Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The wrath against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land. Frank, this describes the King of Moab sacrificing his son to Chemosh, his god.  Who was it that brought wrath down upon the Israelites after this sacrifice? Mike, Can you find the phrase “true god” in reference to any other so-called “God” in Scripture? I'm still waiting for YOU to find the phrase “so-called god” or “false god” in any scripture.  (Oh, and I guess I should have specified:  IN THE GREEK OR HEBREW – not in English transliterations.) Btw, the words in 1 Cor 1:8 say “……there are THOSE CALLED GODS, both in heaven, and on earth, as indeed there ARE many gods and many lords………….” There is nothing in the Greek about any “so-called god”.  Try again.

Mike,

I'm still waiting to find the word phrase “Jesus pre-existed his birth as 'a god'” in Scripture!

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (Ed J @ June 07 2012,11:08)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,10:16) Hi Ed, First, you said this: Quote (Ed J @ May 31 2012,19:29) Why do you work to discredit Isa 44:8? “Ye are even my witnesses. Is there 'a God' beside me? yea, there is 'no God'; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8) God bless Ed J Then, you said this: Quote (Ed J @ June 05 2012,02:13) Hi Mike, There are other ĔL-ō-Hêêms……….. First of all, we don't have to add the “s” to elohim, because the “im” signifies that the word is plural. But let's look at the scripture YOU quoted again: “Ye are even my witnesses. Is there an elohim beside me? yea, there is no elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8) Hmmmm………….  It seems that Jehovah Himself clearly said that there were NO ELOHIM besides Him.  Yet YOU said, “There are other ĔL-ō-Hêêms……..” So I have to ask:  Why do you work to discredit Isa 44:8? Hi Mike, that is why YHVH uses the “AKJV Bible” to interpret Note: translate and interpret are from the same Greek word. Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (in the AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever. Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue(that is English) will he speak to this people. 1Cor.14:27 (AKJV) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two(Hebrew, Aramaic), or at the most by three(Greek), and that by course; [and let one (“AKJV Bible”) translate]. The “AKJV Bible” we have today was no accident, it's exactly the way GOD wanted it! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Yeah Mike, that is why our Heavenly Father and Creator's name is substituted with the mere inferior title “the LORD” and James is designated with the greater title of a “KING” that includes his name on the cover of the AKJV!

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 06 2012,18:03)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,10:01) Quote (Ed J @ June 06 2012,07:20) 2) The LORD means “The Owner”, and that is JEHOVAH. Jesus is JEHOVAH's son, and that makes Jesus owner. So then Jesus isn't LITERALLY the ONLY lord in existence after all, huh?  So what then does Paul mean by the words, “..and one Lord, Jesus Christ……..”? Hi Mike, Did you not comprehend my post? The answer is contained therein. JEHOVAH is the owner of the universe. Jesus bought and paid for our redemption. There are Lords of Governments, houses, ect. God bless Ed J

Let me try this a different way:

Ed, is Jesus LITERALLY the ONLY lord in existence? YES or NO?

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ June 07 2012,09:49)

Quote (jammin @ June 06 2012,14:34) that is just your imagination boy they have different meaning phil 2.6 is different Jammin; I already pointed out that a thesaurus states image and shape mean the same thing.  You are arguing against the English language.  I know that calling a reflection in a mirror an image is the same as calling it a shape. Do you have any evidence that shape in Philippians 2:6 has a different meaning that image in other passages?

before christ took the human form, he was in the form of GOD

now, do you have this kind of scenario just like christ?
yes or no?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 06 2012,18:08)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,10:16) But let's look at the scripture YOU quoted again: “Ye are even my witnesses. Is there an elohim beside me? yea, there is no elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8) Hmmmm………….  It seems that Jehovah Himself clearly said that there were NO ELOHIM besides Him.  Yet YOU said, “There are other ĔL-ō-Hêêms……..” So I have to ask:  Why do you work to discredit Isa 44:8? Hi Mike, that is why YHVH uses the “AKJV Bible” to interpret. The “AKJV Bible” we have today was no accident, it's exactly the way GOD wanted it!

I see.  So when the KJV says……………

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given………… and his name shall be called…….. The mighty God…….

……….. are they “working to discredit Is 44:8”?  Or is it just ME who gets accused of doing that?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 06 2012,18:33)

Yeah Mike, that is why our Heavenly Father and Creator's name is substituted with the mere inferior title “the LORD” and James is designated with the greater title of a “KING” that includes his name on the cover of the AKJV!

Good one, Frank.  

But in all fairness, the KJV society has recently published what they call “The Divine Name KJV”, in which they leave YHWH where it should be.  (But I'm sure you'll be disappointed to know that they use the translation “Jehovah”, and not “Yahweh”.   )

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 06 2012,18:20)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2012,12:16) 2 Kings 3:27 Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The wrath against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land. Frank, this describes the King of Moab sacrificing his son to Chemosh, his god.  Who was it that brought wrath down upon the Israelites after this sacrifice? Mike, I'm still waiting to find the word phrase “Jesus pre-existed his birth as 'a god'” in Scripture!

That particular word phrase does not exist in scripture, Frank.

Now, will YOU answer the bolded question above?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,11:55)

Quote (Ed J @ June 06 2012,18:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,10:01) Quote (Ed J @ June 06 2012,07:20) 2) The LORD means “The Owner”, and that is JEHOVAH. Jesus is JEHOVAH's son, and that makes Jesus owner. So then Jesus isn't LITERALLY the ONLY lord in existence after all, huh?  So what then does Paul mean by the words, “..and one Lord, Jesus Christ……..”? Hi Mike, Did you not comprehend my post? The answer is contained therein. JEHOVAH is the owner of the universe. Jesus bought and paid for our redemption. There are Lords of Governments, houses, ect. God bless Ed J Let me try this a different way:   Ed, is Jesus LITERALLY the ONLY lord in existence?  YES or NO?

Mike, you're just playing games with words.
I have answered your question twice now,
I'm sorry if you cannot accept my answer.

I believe you ask loaded questions that limit answers to a set of cleverly constructed
preconceived choices is meant to narrow the field to even more loaded questions.   …and a snare!
There only purpose is as leverage to make your belief sound reasonably true.
The thread I have started explains this premise in great detail.  (Link)

I sincerely hope you don't try to use this as an excuse for an unsavory attempt to tile me.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,12:07)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 06 2012,18:33) Yeah Mike, that is why our Heavenly Father and Creator's name is substituted with the mere inferior title “the LORD” and James is designated with the greater title of a “KING” that includes his name on the cover of the AKJV!   Good one, Frank.   But in all fairness, the KJV society has recently published what they call “The Divine Name KJV”, in which they leave YHWH where it should be.  (But I'm sure you'll be disappointed to know that they use the translation “Jehovah”, and not “Yahweh”.   )

Mike,

I was already quite aware of the “The Divine Name King James Bible” that is published by The Divine Name King James Publishing Co., but was not aware on any “KJV society”. There has long been a translation with the Name “Yahweh” restored in accordance with the KJV. I have both of these translations linked on my web page at:

YAHWEH Transliterated Scriptures

…

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,12:13)

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 06 2012,18:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 06 2012,12:16) 2 Kings 3:27 Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The wrath against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land. Frank, this describes the King of Moab sacrificing his son to Chemosh, his god.  Who was it that brought wrath down upon the Israelites after this sacrifice? Mike, I'm still waiting to find the word phrase “Jesus pre-existed his birth as 'a god'” in Scripture!   That particular word phrase does not exist in scripture, Frank. Now, will YOU answer the bolded question above?

Mike,

What “bolded” (?) question above?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,12:03)

Quote (Ed J @ June 06 2012,18:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,10:16) But let's look at the scripture YOU quoted again: “Ye are even my witnesses. Is there an elohim beside me? yea, there is no elohim; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8) Hmmmm………….  It seems that Jehovah Himself clearly said that there were NO ELOHIM besides Him.  Yet YOU said, “There are other ĔL-ō-Hêêms……..” So I have to ask:  Why do you work to discredit Isa 44:8? Hi Mike, that is why YHVH uses the “AKJV Bible” to interpret. The “AKJV Bible” we have today was no accident, it's exactly the way GOD wanted it! I see.  So when the KJV says…………… Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given………… and his name shall be called…….. The mighty God……. ……….. are they “working to discredit Is 44:8”?  Or is it just ME who gets accused of doing that?

Hi Mike,

Have not Kieth, Jammin, and others been calling Jesus this?
I see this as a fulfillment of the Prophecy in Isaiah 9:6.

I flat out reject your interpretation of Scripture.
Trying to press the issue will not work.

However, as always, I would be willing
to reason the Scriptural meanings with you.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Ed,

I was having a discussion with NICK about the many gods mentioned in the scriptures.  YOU are the one who jumped into OUR discussion on page 344, claiming that I was “discrediting” Isaiah 44:8.

So, as I have done a dozen times before, I set out to ONCE AGAIN explain to you that Isaiah 44:8 doesn't mean that Jehovah is LITERALLY the ONLY elohim in existence.  It was an EMPHATICAL statement, Ed.

And so we went through the same things we've been through before:

1.  Jehovah says He is the ONLY savior, yet sent OTHER saviors.

2.  Scripture says Jesus is the ONLY lord, yet speaks of many other lords.

3.  How could Jehovah even be “the God of gods” if there were no other gods for Him to be the God of?

Etc, etc, etc.

But now you are caught in your OWN words, because YOU admit that there ARE other elohim in existence.  And now that you've admitted that there ARE other elohim, and Isaiah 44:8 records Jehovah as saying He is the ONLY elohim, you'll have no choice but to acknowledge what I've been telling you for years:  “Only elohim” is an EMPHATIC statement, meant to imply that all the other elohim (which do truly exist) are “nothing” compared to the One who created all those other elohim.

You see Ed, what I've been saying and saying is that there ARE other elohim (gods). And now you have agreed by saying the same thing.

So I hope you've learned something, Ed.  And I hope that the next time I'm discussing the MANY different gods that are described in scripture, you'll either back me (because what I'm saying is the truth of scripture), or you'll stay out of it.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ June 06 2012,19:29)

Hi Mike, Have not Kieth, Jammin, and others been calling Jesus this? I see this as a fulfillment of the Prophecy in Isaiah 9:6.

So you think Isaiah was prophesying about Jesus FALSELY being called “mighty god” in the future by Trinitarians?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,12:52)

Ed, I was having a discussion with NICK about the many gods mentioned in the scriptures.  YOU are the one who jumped into OUR discussion on page 344, claiming that I was “discrediting” Isaiah 44:8. So, as I have done a dozen times before, I set out to ONCE AGAIN explain to you that Isaiah 44:8 doesn't mean that Jehovah is LITERALLY the ONLY elohim in existence.  It was an EMPHATICAL statement, Ed. And so we went through the same things we've been through before: 1.  Jehovah says He is the ONLY savior, yet sent OTHER saviors. 2.  Scripture says Jesus is the ONLY lord, yet speaks of many other lords. 3.  How could Jehovah even be “the God of gods” if there were no other gods for Him to be the God of? Etc, etc, etc. But now you are caught in your OWN words, because YOU admit that there ARE other elohim in existence.  And now that you've admitted that there ARE other elohim, and Isaiah 44:8 records Jehovah as saying He is the ONLY elohim, you'll have no choice but to acknowledge what I've been telling you for years:  “Only elohim” is an EMPHATIC statement, meant to imply that all the other elohim (which do truly exist) are “nothing” compared to the One who created all those other elohim. You see Ed, what I've been saying and saying is that there ARE other elohim (gods).  And now you have agreed by saying the same thing. So I hope you've learned something, Ed.  And I hope that the next time I'm discussing the MANY different gods that are described in scripture, you'll either back me (because what I'm saying is the truth of scripture), or you'll stay out of it.

Hi Mike,

I've tried to explain to you, that is because of the limiting nature
of the languages used to express the deeper theology of God.
In many ways English does not have these same limitations.

But it would seem that you are attempting to put these same
limitations upon English, simply because it is the only
way that you currently understand Scripture.

I have been trying to get you to understand Scripture
in a far more comprehensive way. But it seems you're
only interested in making your belief sound correct.

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2012,12:54)

Quote (Ed J @ June 06 2012,19:29) Hi Mike, Have not Kieth, Jammin, and others been calling Jesus this? I see this as a fulfillment of the Prophecy in Isaiah 9:6. So you think Isaiah was prophesying about Jesus FALSELY being called “mighty god” in the future by Trinitarians?

Yep

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