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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 29 2012,01:47) Hi KW,
The Word[of God's Spirit] was with God.
Nick,Could you please phrase your words differently as I am not sure I understand them correctly. Thank you.
Quote (jammin @ Feb. 27 2012,21:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 28 2012,09:22) jammin, there is also no scriptural evidence that Jesus wasn't already named Jesus in heaven before he was made into the likeness of a human being.
31 And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.that's what the bible says.
Yes, but that doesn't say his name wasn't already “Jesus” before. It could mean since his name is already Jesus in heaven, call him Jesus when he is born of a woman.I'm not making a claim that his name WAS Jesus in heaven. I'm only pointing out that there is no scriptural evidence that it wasn't. It is another one of those common understandings that have been “grandfathered in” for generations – without any scriptural support.
There are scriptures that lead me to believe his name was always Jesus, but we can discuss them in a new thread if anyone is interested in starting one.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2012,20:05) Hi MB,
Perhaps I went too far. SorryAnyway in reply to this question you said.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2012,18:54)
Hi MB,
Is the Spirit of Elijah in John of the Spirit of God?“N
NO, “
SO WHAT DID YOU MEAN?
Nick,I don't know where that post is. It is only today the 28th, and I haven't discussed Elijah today.
But start an “Elijah/John” thread if you want to discuss this further. jammin doesn't want us stepping on his thread with this discussion.
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 28 2012,00:59) Understand how Prophecy works (spiritual eyes) “The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” (Rev 13:8)
That is a poor, faulty translation of that verse, Ed. Almost all Bibles now render it correctly as all whose names have not been written from the creation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain.What about Simeon, Ed? God made him a promise that he would see the Christ. He saw the 8 day old Jesus and thanked God for keeping His promise.
How do you explain that?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 29 2012,02:27) Hi KW,
The Spirit of Christ is the Word.
The vessel of Jesus has become the Word by anointing.
Nick,I agree!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2012,20:05) Hi MB,
Perhaps I went too far. SorryAnyway in reply to this question you said.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2012,18:54)
Hi MB,
Is the Spirit of Elijah in John of the Spirit of God?“N
NO, “
SO WHAT DID YOU MEAN?
I found this post in the “For Wakeup” thread, Nick. You addressed it to me, but the answer you posted here was from Pierre. You have mistakenly attributed words to me that I didn't say. But you have apologized, and I realize it was a mistake. No harm done.Why is there a debate about this?
God created all things through Jesus Christ, his son, the Word of God.
Jesus existed in the form of God, emptied himself, came in the flesh, died, rose again, and is seated at the right hand of the Father in the glory that he had with the father before the world began.So he may not have been called Jesus before partaking of the flesh. He might not have had a body that people recognize as Jesus. And he may not have even been called the son before being conceived. But scripture tells us he is a mystery and that God indeed created all things through Jesus Christ, the son, the Word. So all we can do is accept it.
Ephesians 3:9
and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Colossians 1:15
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.To say that God did not create the cosmos through his Word, Son, or Jesus Christ is plain wrong as these scriptures clearly show.
So what is left to debate about now? He is a mystery and scripture says that God created all things through him. Why argue outside of what is revealed, because only that which comes from the Spirit is of God and the rest is of man? It is a son of God who is led by God's Spirit.
Quote (jammin @ Feb. 01 2012,14:46) anyone from the anti christ group willing to answer this topic? jammin,
Anti-christ group? of course you mean the “Jesus is God/trinity” group.
the general meaning of the word “logos” is message or communication or the thoughts behind the words used.
There is no reason to change that basic meaning in John 1:1
Figuratively, though, Since God's thoughts are of the utmost importance, we must recognize from Genesis 1:1 that God is the word.
However, since God's thoughts are no one else's but his own, his thoughts must be included here as well.
God does not reveal all his thoughts to us, but those that he wants us to know he has revealed by prophets speaking and/or writing. the written thoughts are scripture.
In the beginning, God, having foreknowledge, foreknew that man would sin and would need a redeemer. Thus his thoughts included a plan for man's redemption and salvation.
Jesus Christ is the central figure in this plan for our salvation.
God authored our salvation.
Jesus Christ is the agent of our salvation.
God's perfect plan was carried out.
His words/thoughts became flesh in the person of the man, the son of God Jesus Christ.
God is the word,
His words are the word.
His son Jesus Christ is the word.
Neither Jesus Christ nor scriptures existed until they became flesh, evident in the five senses. God did have them in mind even at the beginning. God has some good management skills. He had a perfect plan and implemented it.
barley
barley,
therefore do you believe that there was no christ in the beginning?
you said:the general meaning of the word “logos” is message or communication or the thoughts behind the words used.
that is the general meaning
but in john 1.1 it refers to CHRIST! HE IS CALLED THE WORD! YOU CANT READ THAT THE WORD IN JOHN 1.1 IS A MESSAGE OR COMMUNICATION OR THE THOUGHTS BEHIND THE WORDS USED.can you read that in john 1.1??
i do not need your opinion. i want you to read that in john 1.1Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 29 2012,09:53) Quote (jammin @ Feb. 27 2012,21:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 28 2012,09:22) jammin, there is also no scriptural evidence that Jesus wasn't already named Jesus in heaven before he was made into the likeness of a human being.
31 And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.that's what the bible says.
Yes, but that doesn't say his name wasn't already “Jesus” before. It could mean since his name is already Jesus in heaven, call him Jesus when he is born of a woman.I'm not making a claim that his name WAS Jesus in heaven. I'm only pointing out that there is no scriptural evidence that it wasn't. It is another one of those common understandings that have been “grandfathered in” for generations – without any scriptural support.
There are scriptures that lead me to believe his name was always Jesus, but we can discuss them in a new thread if anyone is interested in starting one.
you said:Yes, but that doesn't say his name wasn't already “Jesus” before.you cant read that in luke 1.31
are you joking mike? what a joke.
this is what the bible says
Luke 1:31
New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
31 You will become pregnant and give birth to a son. You must name him Jesus.Luke 1:31
New Life Version (NLV)
31 See! You are to become a mother and have a Son. You are to give Him the name Jesus.Luke 1:31
Common English Bible (CEB)
31 Look! You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus.pls read that carefully. after giving birth, she will give him a name JESUS.
better luck next time
kerwin,
do not explain.
i need your word in john 1.1pls read your illusion in john 1.1
read to me in john 1.1 that john says that the WORD is what comes out of the mouth of GOD.
if you cant read that in john 1.1 then better luck next time
Quote (jammin @ Feb. 29 2012,22:02) barley, therefore do you believe that there was no christ in the beginning?
you said:the general meaning of the word “logos” is message or communication or the thoughts behind the words used.
that is the general meaning
but in john 1.1 it refers to CHRIST! HE IS CALLED THE WORD! YOU CANT READ THAT THE WORD IN JOHN 1.1 IS A MESSAGE OR COMMUNICATION OR THE THOUGHTS BEHIND THE WORDS USED.can you read that in john 1.1??
i do not need your opinion. i want you to read that in john 1.1
Jesus Christ did not exist in the beginning. He was part of God's plan in the beginning, to redeem mankind, but did not exist until he was born.Logos is not a who, but a what.
Figuratively, it is a who, in some uses in scripture, but the basic meaning is a what.
I have no problem reading logos as message in John 1:1
God's message was with God. God's intended plan of redemption was with God, This plan of redemption included the foretold Christ.
If Jesus Christ is God, then in the phrase “the word was with God” Jesus Christ is included in the word,”God”.
Thus the word, “word” does not refer to Jesus Christ because Jesus Christ is God. The word, “word” then has to refer to something else.
Are we to believe that John 1:1 is telling us that God was with God? Is that the great truth we are to learn from John 1:1 b?
barley
barley if you have no problem reading logos as message in john 1.1 then read it. i do not need your opinion.
read in john 1.1 that john says the meaning of WORD is message.do not ask me. you must first read your opinion in john 1.1 then ill answer your question.
if you cant read your opinion in john 1.1, you have a big problem.
Quote (jammin @ Mar. 01 2012,00:58) barley if you have no problem reading logos as message in john 1.1 then read it. i do not need your opinion.
read in john 1.1 that john says the meaning of WORD is message.do not ask me. you must first read your opinion in john 1.1 then ill answer your question.
if you cant read your opinion in john 1.1, you have a big problem.
I guess, I will have to repeat myself.the general meaning of the word “logos” is message or communication or the thoughts behind the words used.
There is no reason to change that basic meaning in John 1:1
Figuratively, though, Since God's thoughts are of the utmost importance, we must recognize from Genesis 1:1 that God is the word.
However, since God's thoughts are no one else's but his own, his thoughts must be included here as well.
John 1:1
Word in “in the beginning was the word” is God only as Genesis 1:1 verifies.
and the word was with God.
If Jesus is God, then word does not refer to Jesus Christ, for “God” includes Jesus Christ.
Since logos means message or comm……
why not use that general meaning there?
God's thoughts, his ideas, his redemptive plans, his intended communication with mankind was with God. The agent of God's redemptive plan is Jesus Christ. That is what the word, the logos, says. Jesus Christ did the will of the Father and redeemed us, he did the works to save us just like God's word says.
Thus word, logos, in “the word was with God” refers to God's thoughts, his plans which include his future son Jesus Christ.
God's thoughts, His words are God, they have no outside source. Have you counseled God? I haven't. He had his plan of redemption ready to go in the beginning, it was not an eleventh hour plan. He was not surprised that the serpent successfully caused Eve to succumb to the temptation and that Adam would follow suit.
The word in Genesis 3:15 the words that spoke of a coming seed were made flesh in Mattthew 1:18
So simple and you don't have to complicate scripture with pagan triune mythology.
barley
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