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Quote (Oxy @ July 06 2010,20:37) No hangup Mike. It's like this. As I've stated before, we are a three part being consisting of body, soul and spirit, yet the body is subject to the decisions we make (soul) and though our spirit guides us (conscience) the soul still decides what we will do.
Hi Oxy,Which part is the greatest?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgbarley………..The Hebrews word for GOD in its original (pictorial) language was a drawing of a Ox Head with a Staff beside it . The ox represented Power and the staff was what a Shepard trusted for support. Simply put GOD was the Power they trusted in. When we read in John 1:1 . we could read it this way, IN the VERY BEGINNING WAS THE WORD (INTELLIGENT UTTERANCE) AND THE WORD (INTELLIGENT UTTERANCE) WAS WITH GOD (POWER) AND WAS GOD (POWER). God's words and he are one and the same thing. “The word of God is more powerful than a two edged sword, separating the bone from the marrow”. We are cleansed by the word of God as it say “being wash by the word of God”. Words are powerful they are the thoughts of the mind rather man or GOD . Whole civilizations have been created by words and destroyed by them also, we have a saying the Pen is more powerful then the sword, and that is a true statement , words are seeded in the mind they are very powerful indeed, in fact they are at the center of all power. Because they proceed forth from the mind rather man or YHVH who is our true GOD or Power. God and his word s are one and the same. They are Spirit and life. Jesus said the word (which were not his) i am saying to you are Spirit and Life, they were both. Now if God's Word abide in us then that life recieved by those word abides in us also , and that life is eternal life. Therefore as Jesus said all the believe in Him have passed (past tense) from judgement to life. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Quote (Ed J @ July 06 2010,22:50) Quote (Oxy @ July 06 2010,20:37) No hangup Mike. It's like this. As I've stated before, we are a three part being consisting of body, soul and spirit, yet the body is subject to the decisions we make (soul) and though our spirit guides us (conscience) the soul still decides what we will do.
Hi Oxy,Which part is the greatest?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
That's a good question. The soul is the one that makes decisions, so is therefore in charge. I think perhaps the spirit should be in charge, but it doesn't work that way.Quote (Oxy @ July 06 2010,20:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2010,04:41) Quote (Oxy @ July 05 2010,17:19) As I have said SOOOOO many times before, I have never claimed equality.
Hi Oxy,So what's the hang up then? You are right in saying Jesus is not equal to God. So how can he be our God when our God is the same person as his God?
mike
No hangup Mike. It's like this. As I've stated before, we are a three part being consisting of body, soul and spirit, yet the body is subject to the decisions we make (soul) and though our spirit guides us (conscience) the soul still decides what we will do.Even though we are a three part being, not all parts are equal. Some parts are subject to another.
We are mad4e in the likeness of God.
Hi Oxy,In your Godhead, who is the body, who is the soul, and who is the spirit?
And does your body have a mind of it's own? How about your spirit? Do they have free will like Jesus had? Can your body refuse to obey your soul if it chooses to? Do you consider your body “your only begotten son”? Did your soul beget your body? Does your body call your soul father? Does your spirit speak only what your soul tells it to?
Finally, where is the scriptural support of your theory?
mike
Quote (barley @ July 06 2010,04:02) Quote (RokkaMan @ July 04 2010,04:31) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 04 2010,00:56) Quote (barley @ July 04 2010,00:34) Quote (RokkaMan @ June 18 2010,21:25) I would like your thoughts on this. I am not trying to tie Jesus as being The Word of God even thought it is expressed in the bible.
But is The Word of God…God himself?
After i get a bunch of your responses, I'll post a verse explicitely showing WHO The Word of God is, so be careful in your analysis or else i'll embarrass you lol.
BTW a simple yes or no will suffice.
Feel free to post a scripture or two, but please no novels of scripture, and no questions redirected back to me.Just simply answer it and post (optional) a verse or two supporting your belief.
Matthew 12:34 …out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh….What comes out of your mouth is you speaking, what comes out of your mouth is you.
What comes out of my mouth is me.
The words that come out of God's mouth is God.
II Timothy 3:16. “All scripture is given by inspiration of God. That is, all scripture is God-breathed.
barely………..Right on brother , you have posted it right. God and His Words are ONE and The Same. Just as it says the Word WAS GOD> Just as our words ARE WHO WE ARE. Amen brother.peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
So you guys agree with me when I say The Word of God is God himself.Good.
Now do you believe Jesus Christ is The Word of God manifested in flesh?
“So you guys agree with me when I say The Word of God is God himself.Good.
Now do you believe Jesus Christ is The Word of God manifested in flesh?”
Rokkaman.
Mr. Rokkaman,
Although I would seem appropriate to agree with you here, prudence requires that we proceed slowly and one step at a time. We do not want to make conclusions on the basis of something that is not there. No more than we would want to walk up a 40 ft ladder with only one rung in it.
One caution is, since the logos of God is God, does the logos of God include everything that God is? Since the words or logos or message of God are those things that God chose to communicate, does that mean that God has communicated to us everything that He is?
No. And no.
I only know as much of you as can be communicated by the words you have shared on this website. Yet, there is a lot more to you than what has been recorded on this website. Although, this information might be available on this website somewhere, I do not know how old you are, who your parents are, what your real name is, what nationality you are, etc., etc., etc…..
Likewise with the word, the logos, that what we have in the form of scripture, we only know those things that God has revealed to us to know. See Deuteronomy 29:29, The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong to us, and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.”
All that God has revealed to us in His logos, His word, the written word, the scripture, is available for us to know and utilize, but God has not revealed all things to us. Nor to Jesus Christ. So since the logos of God is basically the words, the message of God, that He has revealed to us to know, Jesus Christ is limited to be like God only to the extent that the written word, the logos, is revealed to us. Therefore, although JC is the word in the flesh, he is certainly not a total communication of everything that is God, because God has not revealed all to us in His word.
Jesus Christ is the one and only example of someone choosing to and perfectly carrying out, perfectly doing that logos, the word that is revealed. As we carry out God's words' instructions in our lives, we also show God's word in the flesh for all to see, even as Jesus Christ did. However, Jesus Christ, as the word in the flesh, began at his conception. He was conceived and born to be the word in the flesh. Likewise, we were born again, to be the word in the flesh.
So, as you and I, as Jesus Christ did, believe God's Word are we the word in the flesh? Yes. People see truth in action, they see by our lives what God is about, they, in a very real sense, see the Father. Jesus Christ is the prime example of the word being in the flesh, but that does not exclude us from doing the same works that Jesus C. did.
Jesus Christ being the word in the flesh is not only God's doing, but Jesus Christ's doing as well. God decided to have a son, the son decided to do the will of the Father, rather than his own. It was a team effort. God, however, was and is the prime mover. The game plan was set and declared from God, JC carried out his part in it.
Even so, we should decide to learn and carry out our part in God's “game plan.” Just as JC did, we want to have God's will done here on earth, even as it is in heaven. Who is going to do God's will here on earth? Jesus Christ is no longer here, he is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Who is here to do the will of God here on earth?
You and I.
You and I are up to it.
God made us able to do it.
I'll do my best, based on what I understand clearly to do. What about you? Will you be the word in the flesh as JC was? Thank God, Jesus C. died for us, so we don't have to die in service to God, but rather be living sacrifices to God. Romans 12:1.
There are other issues to consider here, but for now this will suffice.
Agreeing with scripture that Jesus Christ is the word in the flesh, is not a difficult decision for me. After all, that is what scripture teaches. John 1:14,15. However, that scripture does not teach that Jesus Christ is God. No more than you or I could possibly be God, because we choose to do God's will over our own. No more than you or I could be God because we show the Father in our lives.
We do not want to take a mile, if only an inch is given to us. Let us take that inch in the right direction, and travel it as God would have us to travel it. We need to be faithful in that one inch, for when we are, God will give us more.
May our journeys for God be the prosperous ones that God intends.
I agree with you, and have no charge against your saying.I believe the folly among the boards is understanding each of our interpretations.
——-
I've have said Jesus is not YHVH himself.
I do believe Jesus Christ is the manifestation of The Word of God.
I also believe The Word of God is YHVH himself…his communication, his expression to creation.
——-
Nothing can fully understand or encompass YHVH.
Not angels, men, just simple nothing.
YHVH is infinite, he is everything and continually everything.
He is what is not even.
Which means, he is everything that is, that hasn't even been.
———-
For example, he has the potential to be a father, but not until a son is born.
He has the potential to be a healer, but not until someone is afflicted.
————
So in the future, far when this world is gone.
He will continue to create.
And will become all that is good in that creation.
————
So if one day he creates something called (mookie pookie)
and beeing mookie is good, and pookie being bad.He won't be a mookie to us, until he creates mookie pookie.
————
So YHVH wasn't a creator, until he created…
this demonstrates his power.
He is the source of all things.
He has the potential to be all things, but isn't it until there is a need for it.
———
This is how he continually infinite creates, and how we'll live in a world full of entertainment for all eternity.
HOW GREAT IS OUR GOD =P
———
So when Jesus is the incarnate Word of God.
He is God expressed to creation.
———
So we will never be able to reach YHVH.
He is too infinite, too great to come close.
So in agreement with your understanding and what you have posted, that I have quoted above.
Jesus Christ is YHVH expressed to creation as The Word of God.
So when I tell you, he is NOT YHVH.
I tell you the truth.
but when I say he is God.
I so too, still tell you the truth.
Because he is everything God, that creation can possibly know.
Hi RM,
Yes Jesus CHRIST is God expressed in creation.
The son of Mary was an anointed man
The Spirit of Christ is eternal.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2010,15:44) Hi RM,
Yes Jesus CHRIST is God expressed in creation.
The son of Mary was an anointed man
The Spirit of Christ is eternal.
It's what i've been saying all along, yet we spent countless hours arguing.Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 07 2010,13:26) Quote (Oxy @ July 06 2010,20:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 06 2010,04:41) Quote (Oxy @ July 05 2010,17:19) As I have said SOOOOO many times before, I have never claimed equality.
Hi Oxy,So what's the hang up then? You are right in saying Jesus is not equal to God. So how can he be our God when our God is the same person as his God?
mike
No hangup Mike. It's like this. As I've stated before, we are a three part being consisting of body, soul and spirit, yet the body is subject to the decisions we make (soul) and though our spirit guides us (conscience) the soul still decides what we will do.Even though we are a three part being, not all parts are equal. Some parts are subject to another.
We are mad4e in the likeness of God.
Hi Oxy,In your Godhead, who is the body, who is the soul, and who is the spirit?
And does your body have a mind of it's own? How about your spirit? Do they have free will like Jesus had? Can your body refuse to obey your soul if it chooses to? Do you consider your body “your only begotten son”? Did your soul beget your body? Does your body call your soul father? Does your spirit speak only what your soul tells it to?
Finally, where is the scriptural support of your theory?
mike
Hi Mike, we are obviously not exactly like God, but there are interesting similarities.Our soul is in charge of us, our decision maker etc.
The Father has ultimate authority.Our body is subject to our soul.
Christ is subject to His Father.Our spirit convicts us of wrong or informs us (intuition).
The Holy Spirit makes known to us the things of God and is subject to the Father also.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2010,18:47) Hi Oxy,
The Spirit is OF God in Christ.
Yes, the Holy Spirit, sent by the Father is in Christ and hopefully in us.If the Holy Spirit can be in all, then the Holy Spirit probably is with God the Father who is spirit.
Hi Oxy,
God's Spirit is in Him and in His Son and in His adopted sons.
That is the eternally unifying plan.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2010,16:23) Hi RM,
Without the anointing he would have been unnoticed.
Can't agree there.He originated as The Word of God before he was made flesh, assumed the role of a son unto YHVH, and was born of a virgin birth.
I think everything was already laid out for him.
The annointing was just part of the process. He is who he is… The Word of God made flesh.I believe there is a significance in understanding who he was period.
——–
John 10-14
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
——-We know the creator of the worlds is God himself.
Specifically, The Word of God, but it is to be understood as YHVH creating the worlds by speaking it into existence.The action of speaking everything into existence is The Word of God.
So reading John 10-14, it helps us understand that…
10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
This can be read as.
God was in the world, and the world was made by him (God), and the world knew him not.
God came unto his own, and his own received him not.
….
He came unto his own (creation, specifically mankind).
So you have to understand, from the get go, Jesus Christ was the manifestation of The Word of God.
You make it seem like his annointing was a right of passage, when in reality it was just part of the process.
Without the annointing, I believe he still would have been God expressed to mankind, however…he would have not been able to be killed, being found sinless.
To die without sins would break God's own law, which would be impossible.
I also believe, we would not have free access to the holy ghost and be doomed to fall short of god's glory.
and because Jesus wasn't annointed, we too couldn't be annointed with God's gifts.
—–In so many words, Jesus would have came, and still been God in flesh.
but his purpose would not and could not of been fufilled without being annointed by The Source YHVH.
To have John bear witness that he is in fact The Son of God.
Therefore, him never seeing death, and never giving himself a ransom for the world's sins.
Would it of change who he was?
Absolutely not.Our fate on the other hand, would of been very different.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 04 2010,07:22) Okay RM, Hit me with the scriptures that prove the Word is YHVH. Let's break them down ONE AT A TIME. What's your first one? Post it and explain what YOU think it means, then I'll go.
ps, you make a point of always saying you don't think Jesus is YHVH, but then you say this:
Quote Well not that the word of God was A God…but that The Word of God, WAS God.
The God this verse is implying is YHVH himself.
Not a seperate God from the source, but one in the same.
So if Jesus ISN'T YHVH, but the Word is, then the Word isn't Jesus?
mike
Hello Mike,You're limited to comprehension that is why it's difficult to understand what i'm saying but i'll surely break it down for you.
———
God or better examined as YHVH is the source of all things.
The Word of God is his communication to creation.
We are to understand, that what ever comes out of someone's mouth comes from the heart and mind.
So when God communicates, he's communicating himself.
He is communicating his thoughts, his heart and his mind.
So when John 1 says,
The word was WITH God and Was God.
It literally means, that what God is communicating is knowledge of himself.
So his Word is about HIM.
—————
This Word, this communication, is God's Utterance that created everything.
When he spake, creation came into existence.
—————
The actual words itself literally CAME FROM GOD.It was not created or made, it CAME FROM HIM.
So YHVH and his Word are one in the same.
Just like you and the words you speak are one in the same because your words come from your heart and mind.
—————-
God is so great and vast and infinite, that his Word of course is a limitation of himself.For example, can you describe every aspect of yourself in it's entirety?
Nope.
Well if you a human can't describe yourself in entirety,
How can God, an infinite eternal being, describe himself entirely in a finite non-eternal world.
He can't.
He wouldn't be able to shove enough of himself into creation to fully fit into it.
So all he can do (which is not a limitation, but a demonstration that he is God and source of all things) is reveal himself to creation.
The same way, if I were to sit down and have a talk with you about who I am, I can tell you my whole life story and still you wouldn't know who I am in totality.
——–So you can only possibly know about me, as much as I reveal to you.
The same goes with God.
Nothing can fully encompass or know the totality of God.
We can only know what he reveals to us.
——–
What he reveals to us, is what we know to be His Word.
So The Word of God is God revealed to creation.
——–
God revealed to creation is a limitation compared to YHVH, God himself in totality.The Word is only what God tells us about himself, but it'd be impossible for him to reveal everything about himself because he is infinite.
——–
So if The Word of God, is God revealed…
he is the highest and closest thing creation can possibly perceive to be God.
———
Yet we are aware that God Revealed isn't God himself, but only what we can KNOW of God.and God Revealed has come in the person we know to be Jesus Christ
———-
So when I say Jesus is not YHVH.
I tell you the truth, because I am referring to The Source.
When I say Jesus is God, I still tell you the truth, because he is the manifestation of everything we could EVER know about The Source (YHVH).For he is God revealed, the perception, image or manifestation of The Source.
Do you understand?
He is not a seperate or different God than YHVH, he is YHVH revealed.
In otherwords, he is God limited within creation.
A manifestation of YHVH, the source of all things.
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