JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 21 2010,15:44)

Quote (RokkaMan @ June 21 2010,02:54)

So Gene, don't be quick to jump onto someone's side until you at least hear a rebuttle, because then you make the person your defending, and yourself look like fools.

—–

All i ask is that we stay on topic…if you have questions, ask them and they will be addressed.

Don't go off condemning and pointing fingers when you yourself may actually be wrong.

Ask questions, so that answers may be provided.

RM……Sorry if you took what i said as a put down . I try to be more carefull brother. But You still have not addresse this statement by Jesus……”FOR (THOU) (someone other then the one talking ARE THE (ONLY) that is to say no other, TRUE GOD.

So if Jesus said someone other then him was the (ONLY) True GOD, should we believe this or not. I”ll not go into any of the other scripture that say the same thing even where GOD Himself said He could find (NO) other GOD then himself.

Please address this RM , was Jesus mistaking when he said that or what?

peace and love……………………………gene

Gene,

Wait so your stating that Jesus believed that God other then himself is the True God,

yet scripture states the eternal life is found in Jesus Christ and no one other than himself.

I thought God is life.

Yet Jesus is life,

here is a question who created the world according to Philipians 2, yet Job, and psalms cliam that God created the world.

which is it?

Who is life?
Who is the Light? is it God, Jesus or both.
IF Jesus and God are the same person, than we are talking about one being,

why do you keep on going off topic mentioning the counter arguement of other gods which doesnt connect to what rokkaman is saying.

June 21, 2010 at 10:10 am#198909

Participant

Hi SF,
Examine yourself?
The test is whether Christ is in you.[2Cor 13]
If so you will remember and respect his words and preach them

June 21, 2010 at 10:42 am#198914

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 21 2010,15:10)

Hi SF,
Examine yourself?
The test is whether Christ is in you.[2Cor 13]
If so you will remember and respect his words and preach them

Hi Nick,
1Jn 4

June 21, 2010 at 10:44 am#198915

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 21 2010,03:30)

Hi RM,

You said:

Quote

THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD dwelt in christ.

This is not in scripture. The word “godhead” is NEVER in scripture. Also, that the “fullness of God dwelt in Jesus” makes it clear that they cannot be the same being.

hey MIKE,

Here is the scripture that Rokkaman was reffering too

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
I think you have to take back your “Never” statement.

God bless,

June 21, 2010 at 2:11 pm#198933

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 21 2010,16:47)

Wait so your stating that Jesus believed that God other then himself is the True God,

SF……….Who say that, Me or Jesus. You are evading my question Lets not believe you or Me OK, let believe what Jesus HIMSELF Said > “FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD”, these are not (MY) words . Your argument is with Jesus not Me. Skirting all around an avoiding absolute clear word of Jesus only adds to confusion. It is exactly what TRINITARIANS and PREEXISTENCES DO. (Forcing) the text to meet there dogmas.

I only ask you this (ONE) Question Can you answer it without diverting to other things? We can't even begin to advance together in understanding if we can even get this simply scripture straight and clear. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

June 21, 2010 at 6:46 pm#198954

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 21 2010,19:11)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 21 2010,16:47)

Wait so your stating that Jesus believed that God other then himself is the True God,

peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

You mean the same Jesus who says that the Father and him are one.

Use more than one scripture for once in your life
your full of speculation

June 21, 2010 at 7:09 pm#198957

Participant

Hi SF,
Jesus prayed.

June 21, 2010 at 7:10 pm#198958

Ed J

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 21 2010,09:30)

Hi RM,

You said:

Quote

THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD dwelt in christ.

This is not in scripture. The word “godhead” is NEVER in scripture.

That is not scriptural either. Show me where it says that.

peace and love,
mike

Hi Mike,

Rom.1:20 For the invisible things of him(YHVH=63) from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood
by the things that are made, even his eternal power “and Godhead”=63; so that they are without excuse:

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God (John 15:26-27), we ought not to think that
the “Godhead is like”=109 unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Col.2:9 For in him(Christ=77) dwelleth all the fulness of “the Godhead”=77 bodily.

John 15:26-27 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father,
even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye
also shall bear “witness”=109, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

June 21, 2010 at 7:14 pm#198961

Participant

Hi ED,
A word found only in the KJV bibles and of THREE DIFFERENT greek origins.

June 21, 2010 at 11:35 pm#199008

Participant

Hi RM:

You seem to want to use the words soul and spirit as being the same thing, and I do not believe that they are. The soul in my understanding is the mind, the will, and emotions. The spirit is the life that the person lives.

The Father and the Son (Jesus) are two distinct souls. They are not the same person each has his own mind, will and emotions. The Son was born into the world a living Soul. He was born an innocent man-child just like any other human being except that he was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of a woman, and not born the sperm of man. His body, then, was God's own flesh and blood.

Jesus said, that he who has seen him has seen the Father and he was speaking of seeing the Father through his obedience to the Father's Word, and therefore, the spirit that was formed within him, the Word of God, is God. God is a spirit of love. Jesus is the last Adam, and is the “express image of God's person”. God made man in his own image. The first man like Him in that he had a mind, a will, and emotions, and the last Adam like Him in that he is a spirit of love.

Yes, I believe we can say that God tasted death through the person of Jesus, His Christ and His Son in that He anguished through all that was done to His Son, but it was necessary in order to overcome what the most wicked man could do. Jesus obeyed God without sin in spite of what men could do to him.

The conclusion is that there is “Only One God”. All that is in this world and in this universe both seen and unseen comes from Him and Him alone.

Jesus is God's Christ, the Son of the Living God, and that is what the scripture states, and so, let's just leave it at that.

Love in Christ,
Marty

June 21, 2010 at 11:39 pm#199010

Ed J

Participant

Quote (942767 @ June 22 2010,10:35)

Hi RM:

Jesus said, that he who has seen him has seen the Father and he was speaking of seeing the Father the his obedience to the Father's Word, and therefore, the spirit that was formed within him, the Word of God, is God. God is a spirit of love. Jesus is the last Adam, and is the “express image of God's person”. God made man in his own image. The first man like Him in that he had a mind, a will, and emotions, and the last Adam like him in that he is a spirit of love.

The conclusion is that there is “Only One God”. All that is in this world and in this universe both seen and unseen comes from Him and Him alone.

Jesus is God's Christ, the Son of the Living God, and that is what the scripture states, and so, let's just leave it at that.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Shalom 942767,

Excellent Post brother Marty!

B'shem
YHVH

June 21, 2010 at 11:41 pm#199011

Participant

Hi ($,
The spirit gives life.[Jas2]
It is also the lamp of God in us.[Prov]

It returns to God at our death.[Ecc12]
I think you confuse it with the soul

June 21, 2010 at 11:47 pm#199014

Participant

Hi RM:

Let me just post the following scripture which I believe sums up what I have said:

Quote

1 Co 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live

Love in Christ,
Marty

June 22, 2010 at 1:11 am#199037

Participant

Quote (Oxy @ June 19 2010,18:46)

Quote (942767 @ June 19 2010,20:34)

Hi Oxy:

Is the bible the Word of God?

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hi Marty, I know that everyone calls the Bible the Word of God, but God Himself taught me differently. There are a few things that need to be considered.
1. There is not one Scripture in all the Bible that specifically calls the Bible the Word.
2. The Word of God was in the beginning with God and was God.
3. The Word of God was made flesh
4. THE Word of God indicates only one, the word THE being singular.
5. Jesus NEVER referred to Scrpture as the Word. He called them Scrptures, the words of God or “It is written”
6. If faith comes by hearing the Word and the Word is Scripture, why doesn't it say reading? What it actually means is that faith comes by HEARING.. in other words faith comes when the Word (Jesus) speaks to you.

My personal experience is that since God gave me this understanding it has greatly enhanced the meaning of Scripture to me and also revolutionised my relationship with Jesus.

And so,

If God speaks through anyone, is that the Word of God?

Quote

Hebrews 1

1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

Love in Christ,
Marty

June 22, 2010 at 1:18 am#199041

Participant

Hi Oxy:

You say:

Quote

My personal experience is that since God gave me this understanding it has greatly enhanced the meaning of Scripture to me and also revolutionised my relationship with Jesus

Please elaborate on this, thanks.

Love in Christ,
Marty

June 22, 2010 at 2:08 am#199057

Blocked

Quote (RokkaMan @ June 21 2010,13:03)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 21 2010,09:56)

Quote (RokkaMan @ June 21 2010,09:25)

HI Nick Hassan,

When Revelations says Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords what does that make YHVH?

Hi RM,

He will still be the God of gods,

Psalm 136:2 NIV
Give thanks to the God of gods. His love endures forever.

mike

I've said countless times…Jesus is not YHVH, but he is God!

Hi RM,

I don't understand. YHVH is God. You say Jesus is NOT YHVH. There is only one God, so……?

mike

June 22, 2010 at 3:01 am#199068

Blocked

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 21 2010,15:13)

1st Colossians 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Only one God.
If Jesus did nothing of his own, Than what is his distinct personality if all his choices were his Fathers will.

If you did all my will, that every choice you made was based on my will, could you not say it was me?

If i raised my right hand, and also did you,
and spoke the very same words at the very same time,
and did many things at the very same time, as if you were perfectly copying everything i did, like a mirror,
could you not say we are the same personality?

What was distinct about Jesus choices?

Hi Dennison,

You said:

Quote

1st Colossians 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

And….? If Jesus and God were one being, then it could not be said that the fullness of one dwelt in the other. The fullness of one would already be the fullness of the other, for the other was already one with the one. Make sense?

You said:

Quote

If Jesus did nothing of his own, Than what is his distinct personality if all his choices were his Fathers will.

If you did all my will, that every choice you made was based on my will, could you not say it was me?

No offense, but that doesn't even make sense. Jesus CHOSE to do his Father's will. He CHOSE to because he had the choice. He said he always does what pleases his Father. If Jesus didn't have free will, then the temptations of Satan would be a non-issue. When he asked the Father to remove the cup from him, why even ask? That showed that Jesus' will at that point was to find another way for God to accomplish His purpose. But over and above all, his wish was – no matter how bad he wanted it to be different – that his Father's will be done, not his. If he had no will of his own, why did he say, “not what I will, but what you will”?

mike

June 22, 2010 at 3:03 am#199070

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 22 2010,01:11)

Amen brother Gene.

If we all answer the questions that are asked of us, maybe we will all grow in understanding. Otherwise, we're just skirting the issues.

peace and love,
mike

June 22, 2010 at 3:30 am#199075

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ June 22 2010,06:10)

Hi Mike,

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God (John 15:26-27), we ought not to think that
the “Godhead is like”=109 unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Col.2:9 For in him(Christ=77) dwelleth all the fulness of “the Godhead”=77 bodily.

Hi Ed,

This is from Online Bible Study Tools.

Romans 1:20
Theiotes 3:123,322
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
thi-ot'-ace Noun Feminine

Definition
divinity, divine nature

No “godhead” here.

Acts 17:29
Theios 3:122,322
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
thi'-os Adjective

Definition
a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks

Out of the three times the KJV translates this word, one is as “godhead” and the other two are as “divine”.

Col 2:9
Theotes 3:119,322
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
theh-ot'-ace Noun Feminine

Definition
deity
the state of being God, Godhead

They all just basically apply to one who is divine. I did notice than many translations render it as “godhead”, but that doesn't surprise me, for the trend is definitely trinitarian.
And if this last one was to be rendered as “godhead”, which trinitarians think Jesus is a part of, then wouldn't it kind of be like saying, “All the fullness of Ed J dwells in Ed J”?

Anyway, I learned something today. Thanks RM, SF and Ed!

peace and love,
mike

June 22, 2010 at 3:43 am#199082