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Thinker,
You said to Irene:Quote All the 71 year old ladies I know are going to church and ministering to people and taking meals to shut-ins and meeting together for prayer. But you choose to use your few remaining years judging those who do not agree with you. You don't even worship God but have the audacity to judge those who you think worship Him in vain. Jesus decides who worships God in vain and not you. thinker
Why don't you get your wife's opinion on that post, in fact it might be a good idea for you to have her read all your posts. If you do let her read this then I would like to tell her that Irene has lupus, congestive heart failure, diabetes, and is on oxygen 24/7 yet they take care of their grandchildren regularly and financially support their grown children and that is just from what I know. Irene would love to be doing more if she were able. Irene is the “shut in”…get it!??
How dare you try to put a quilt trip on her.
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 14 2009,11:34) Thinker,
You said to Irene:Quote All the 71 year old ladies I know are going to church and ministering to people and taking meals to shut-ins and meeting together for prayer. But you choose to use your few remaining years judging those who do not agree with you. You don't even worship God but have the audacity to judge those who you think worship Him in vain. Jesus decides who worships God in vain and not you. thinker
Why don't you get your wife's opinion on that post, in fact it might be a good idea for you to have her read all your posts. If you do let her read this then I would like to tell her that Irene has lupus, congestive heart failure, diabetes, and is on oxygen 24/7 yet they take care of their grandchildren regularly and financially support their grown children and that is just from what I know. Irene would love to be doing more if she were able. Irene is the “shut in”…get it!??
How dare you try to put a quilt trip on her.
Kathi
KathiYou are partly right.
But Irene preachs against going to any church and has admitted for years they have ceased from going to a local fellowship!
WJ
Hi WJ,
Should we fellowship with belial?
Fellowship with the Father and the Son is in abiding in scriptural truth.WJ……….. Irene going to church has nothing to do with what Kathi was talking about, Who are you to cast Judgment on IRENE , Why should she go to any Church and listen to a bunch of FALSE teachings and put on a happy face and fellowship in ignorance of truth and support a lying religion, by advancing it falsehood. WE are told to entreat the elderly as our Parents showing the same respect. I find you words about her offensive it surprises me you as a pastor would say that. Bad form WJ!
gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 13 2009,06:32) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 12 2009,20:34) Hi CA,
Catholicism is apostasy.
Nick……..Amen to that statement.gene
Apostasy is “falling away”. YOU fell away from US.We didn't fall away from anyone.
Quote Irene,
It is you who is shoveling the bull. How could the first Christians have interpreted scripture the way you do when the Catholic Church had not yet existed when the bible was written? The “whore” had to be an entity that the first Christians would have known. Since the Catholic Church did not exist when the Bible was written then the whore had to be something else. The whore was apostate Israel.Do you really expect rational people to believe that the first Christians could have come out of the Catholic Church when it did not exist in their day?
You fail to understand that the Bible has to make sense first of all to those to whom it was originally given. If you were to go back in time and say, “The whore is the Catholic church” they would say to you, “Huh?” You also fail to comprehend that the warnings that were given to God's people were not given as a license for you to judge others. You are supposed to guard your own self and let Christ be the judge of others.
Good post. I'm assuming that you are using “Catholic did not exist” as satire using her presuppositions.
Great point.
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 14 2009,13:35) WJ……….. Irene going to church has nothing to do with what Kathi was talking about, Who are you to cast Judgment on IRENE , Why should she go to any Church and listen to a bunch of FALSE teachings and put on a happy face and fellowship in ignorance of truth and support a lying religion, by advancing it falsehood. WE are told to entreat the elderly as our Parents showing the same respect. I find you words about her offensive it surprises me you as a pastor would say that. Bad form WJ! gene
GeneI am not casting judgment on her.
I stated facts, that she is against going to church.
And as far as the rest, the scriptures exhorts us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together “as the manner of some”.
WJ
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 14 2009,13:35) WJ……….. Irene going to church has nothing to do with what Kathi was talking about, Who are you to cast Judgment on IRENE , Why should she go to any Church and listen to a bunch of FALSE teachings and put on a happy face and fellowship in ignorance of truth and support a lying religion, by advancing it falsehood. WE are told to entreat the elderly as our Parents showing the same respect. I find you words about her offensive it surprises me you as a pastor would say that. Bad form WJ! gene
GeneBy the way, why are you judging me?
Pull the beam out of your own eye brother!
WJ
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 14 2009,13:35) WJ……….. Irene going to church has nothing to do with what Kathi was talking about, Who are you to cast Judgment on IRENE , Why should she go to any Church and listen to a bunch of FALSE teachings and put on a happy face and fellowship in ignorance of truth and support a lying religion, by advancing it falsehood. WE are told to entreat the elderly as our Parents showing the same respect. I find you words about her offensive it surprises me you as a pastor would say that. Bad form WJ!
gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 14 2009,13:35) I find you words about her offensive it surprises me you as a pastor would say that. Bad form WJ! What words Gene? These…
Quote Kathi You are partly right.
But Irene preachs against going to any church and has admitted for years they have ceased from going to a local fellowship!
Why are you attacking me?Seems hypocritical to me!
WJ
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Oct. 15 2009,07:12) Quote Irene,
It is you who is shoveling the bull. How could the first Christians have interpreted scripture the way you do when the Catholic Church had not yet existed when the bible was written? The “whore” had to be an entity that the first Christians would have known. Since the Catholic Church did not exist when the Bible was written then the whore had to be something else. The whore was apostate Israel.Do you really expect rational people to believe that the first Christians could have come out of the Catholic Church when it did not exist in their day?
You fail to understand that the Bible has to make sense first of all to those to whom it was originally given. If you were to go back in time and say, “The whore is the Catholic church” they would say to you, “Huh?” You also fail to comprehend that the warnings that were given to God's people were not given as a license for you to judge others. You are supposed to guard your own self and let Christ be the judge of others.
Good post. I'm assuming that you are using “Catholic did not exist” as satire using her presuppositions.
Great point.
CA,
I am definitely not Roman Catholic as you know. But I insist that scripture be interpreted within its historical context and that its contents be intelligible to the original audiences. I have taken even my Protestant brethren to task on this. Many Protestants also believe that the Catholic Church is the whore.This is total nonsense. The Jewish Christians understood that Israel was supposed to be a faithful wife and that her rejection of the Messiah made her an adulteress whore. The new covenant Church is the faithful wife and is made up of only those who confess Christ as Lord and Savior.
Yes, I was using the word “catholic” to refer to the RCC.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 15 2009,07:20) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 14 2009,13:35) WJ……….. Irene going to church has nothing to do with what Kathi was talking about, Who are you to cast Judgment on IRENE , Why should she go to any Church and listen to a bunch of FALSE teachings and put on a happy face and fellowship in ignorance of truth and support a lying religion, by advancing it falsehood. WE are told to entreat the elderly as our Parents showing the same respect. I find you words about her offensive it surprises me you as a pastor would say that. Bad form WJ!
gene
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 14 2009,13:35) I find you words about her offensive it surprises me you as a pastor would say that. Bad form WJ! What words Gene? These…
Quote Kathi You are partly right.
But Irene preachs against going to any church and has admitted for years they have ceased from going to a local fellowship!
Why are you attacking me?Seems hypocritical to me!
WJ
TO IRENE:
It seems as if your judging others as “vain worshipers” has produced bad fruit. Just stick to defending your views from scripture and let the real Judge decide who worships “in vain.”thinker
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Oct. 15 2009,07:08) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 13 2009,06:32) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 12 2009,20:34) Hi CA,
Catholicism is apostasy.
Nick……..Amen to that statement.gene
Apostasy is “falling away”. YOU fell away from US.We didn't fall away from anyone.
Actually, Biblically, “apostasy” is more than “falling away.” It is more of a willing purposeful withdrawl, and then, attacking that same group. Technically, I am a Catholic apostate. And therefore, Bibilically, CA should not speak with me.Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 15 2009,03:34) Thinker,
You said to Irene:Quote All the 71 year old ladies I know are going to church and ministering to people and taking meals to shut-ins and meeting together for prayer. But you choose to use your few remaining years judging those who do not agree with you. You don't even worship God but have the audacity to judge those who you think worship Him in vain. Jesus decides who worships God in vain and not you. thinker
Why don't you get your wife's opinion on that post, in fact it might be a good idea for you to have her read all your posts. If you do let her read this then I would like to tell her that Irene has lupus, congestive heart failure, diabetes, and is on oxygen 24/7 yet they take care of their grandchildren regularly and financially support their grown children and that is just from what I know. Irene would love to be doing more if she were able. Irene is the “shut in”…get it!??
How dare you try to put a quilt trip on her.
Kathi
Kathi,
I sincerely thank you for bringing Irene's situation to my attention. However, her situation does not give her license to wrench the scriptures out of their historical context and from that judge who and who is not a “vain worshiper.” When will people get it that Jesus ALONE is the Judge?thinker
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 15 2009,05:35) WJ……….. Irene going to church has nothing to do with what Kathi was talking about, Who are you to cast Judgment on IRENE , Why should she go to any Church and listen to a bunch of FALSE teachings and put on a happy face and fellowship in ignorance of truth and support a lying religion, by advancing it falsehood. WE are told to entreat the elderly as our Parents showing the same respect. I find you words about her offensive it surprises me you as a pastor would say that. Bad form WJ! gene
Gene,
Irene throws the stones first. Had she not placed herself as judge of who is and is not a “vain worshiper” this recent exchange would not be happening.Seeing that it has been brought to my attention that she has physical problems I will just let her critical spirit roll off me from now on.
thinker
Quote (david @ Oct. 15 2009,15:59) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Oct. 15 2009,07:08) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 13 2009,06:32) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 12 2009,20:34) Hi CA,
Catholicism is apostasy.
Nick……..Amen to that statement.gene
Apostasy is “falling away”. YOU fell away from US.We didn't fall away from anyone.
Actually, Biblically, “apostasy” is more than “falling away.” It is more of a willing purposeful withdrawl, and then, attacking that same group. Technically, I am a Catholic apostate. And therefore, Bibilically, CA should not speak with me.
David and CA are both dead wrong. Apostasy is specifically defined as the falling away from the new covenant and reverting back to the old (Hebrews chaps. 6-8).Anyone who “draws back” to the old is an apostate. Apostasy is narrowly defined in the scripture as it must be. If it was not narrowly defined then everyone would be an apostate. And if everyone is an apostate then there is no such thing as apostasy.
thinker
HiTT,
Hebrews 6 reminds the saved of the foundation of entry into the kingdom of God and urges them to move on.
But those who preach another trinity god have yet to go through the gate of God's Son.
Seek ye first the kingdom and everything else will be added to youQuote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 16 2009,06:19) HiTT,
Hebrews 6 reminds the saved of the foundation of entry into the kingdom of God and urges them to move on.
But those who preach another trinity god have yet to go through the gate of God's Son.
Seek ye first the kingdom and everything else will be added to you
Nick,
Hebrews 6 is not just a reminder. It is a command to “leave” the elementary principles of Christ.What “another” trinity god are you talking about? I speak of the Biblical trinity of the Father Son, and Holy Spirit. I have never spoken of “another” trinity like Zeus, Diana and whoever.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 16 2009,08:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 16 2009,06:19) HiTT,
Hebrews 6 reminds the saved of the foundation of entry into the kingdom of God and urges them to move on.
But those who preach another trinity god have yet to go through the gate of God's Son.
Seek ye first the kingdom and everything else will be added to you
Nick,
Hebrews 6 is not just a reminder. It is a command to “leave” the elementary principles of Christ.What “another” trinity god are you talking about? I speak of the Biblical trinity of the Father Son, and Holy Spirit. I have never spoken of “another” trinity like Zeus, Diana and whoever.
thinker
Trinity is not in the bible, it's suggested (due to interpretation) but it's not a concrete teaching.Either those 3 beings are one in the same, or they are seperate…
If they are seperate you have 3 God's, if they are the same…Then why do we need seperate identities if all 3 are god.
Might as well say, God came down from heaven…while still living in heaven. Became a man, died on the cross and rose himself to take over his own thrown, then to give it back to himself…
The whole identity between them being The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are irrelevent if all 3 are God one in ths same.
You don't need to worship in all three if they are one in the same, you'd just need to worship in God.
Scripture also doesn't require you to believe Jesus IS God, just that Jesus came FROM God…
If he is God wouldn't the first be emphasized through out scripture as an important understanding for salvation?
Also…I don't think God would come down as man himself, or would even need to.
Such idea sounds like a pagan belief…That a man can be God…who's to stop others from pretending to be God?
It's this same kind of idea that the Devil will feed upon to deceive many into think he's God in revelations…
I don't think God would purposely usher in this kin of confusion.
Rather, bringing Jesus…the focal point of God's love and reason for creation, his reflected image onto creation in the form of this physical world, then latter as a man…is enough.
Jesus wasn't God himself, but the personification of God.
Almost like a clone, the clone isn't the actual person…but a carbon copy.
It makes Jesus God to us all, (Better term is Lord) but not God himself.
Hi TT,
Hebrews 6 speaks of the basics of entry into the kingdom of God which Jesus preached.
You should enterQuote (RokkaMan @ Oct. 16 2009,09:02) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 16 2009,08:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 16 2009,06:19) HiTT,
Hebrews 6 reminds the saved of the foundation of entry into the kingdom of God and urges them to move on.
But those who preach another trinity god have yet to go through the gate of God's Son.
Seek ye first the kingdom and everything else will be added to you
Nick,
Hebrews 6 is not just a reminder. It is a command to “leave” the elementary principles of Christ.What “another” trinity god are you talking about? I speak of the Biblical trinity of the Father Son, and Holy Spirit. I have never spoken of “another” trinity like Zeus, Diana and whoever.
thinker
Trinity is not in the bible, it's suggested (due to interpretation) but it's not a concrete teaching.Either those 3 beings are one in the same, or they are seperate…
If they are seperate you have 3 God's, if they are the same…Then why do we need seperate identities if all 3 are god.
Might as well say, God came down from heaven…while still living in heaven. Became a man, died on the cross and rose himself to take over his own thrown, then to give it back to himself…
The whole identity between them being The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are irrelevent if all 3 are God one in ths same.
You don't need to worship in all three if they are one in the same, you'd just need to worship in God.
Scripture also doesn't require you to believe Jesus IS God, just that Jesus came FROM God…
If he is God wouldn't the first be emphasized through out scripture as an important understanding for salvation?
Also…I don't think God would come down as man himself, or would even need to.
Such idea sounds like a pagan belief…That a man can be God…who's to stop others from pretending to be God?
It's this same kind of idea that the Devil will feed upon to deceive many into think he's God in revelations…
I don't think God would purposely usher in this kin of confusion.
Rather, bringing Jesus…the focal point of God's love and reason for creation, his reflected image onto creation in the form of this physical world, then latter as a man…is enough.
Jesus wasn't God himself, but the personification of God.
Almost like a clone, the clone isn't the actual person…but a carbon copy.
It makes Jesus God to us all, (Better term is Lord) but not God himself.
Hi RokkaMan:I am glad to see that you are making progress in your understanding of the scriptures.
The scriptures tell us plainly that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God, and that “in the beginning God made man his own image” and that the first man Adam was made a living soul and that Jesus is the last Adam and is the “express image of God's person”. (Hebrews 1:1-3)
The scriptures also tell us that the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit and not a “third person”. (1 Co 2:10-12)
The scriptures also tell us there is “One God” and one Mediator between God and men, “the man, Christ Jesus. (1 Ti 2:5)
Also, that God is a Spirit and that He is not a man. (John 4:23-24) (Numbers 23:19)
And so, why all of the confusion? God is not the author of confusion.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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