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Irene……..I know you do not believe in the trinity, I don't recall of accusing you of that sis. And you are wrong it is a big deal if Jesus preexisted His Berth as some Kind of Being, which by the way no one seems to be able to identify what was His name and where in scripture is there any activity shown of HIM. Preexistence is simply a doctrine imposed by Trinitarian concepts and Has Nothing to do with the Scriptures, As I said, the Apostle Peter Said it right , Jesus was (foreordained) (BUT) was (MANIFESTED) in our time . That is simply the truth and you or anyone else don't have to add any thing to it.IMO
peace and love to you and Georg…………………………gene
Gene You do not explain the Scriptures I gave in my Post. Yes He was foreordained to be a man. But that has nothing to do with the other Scriptures that clearly teach us that He for instant had a ” glory with the Father, before the world was.” John 17:5. Or are you denying that Scripture? If you do, you are calling Jesus a liar, do you see that?
I do not want to say all of this, but you given me no choice. There are others that belief as I do. Just check the preexisting tread.
Prace and Love IreneQuote (Gene @ May 29 2009,14:53) Irene…and Thinker……….Peter doesn't agree with the Preexistence of Christ or he would have said He preexisted, in fact no Apostle said Jesus Preexisted his berth here on earth. Wouldn't you think something as important as that would have been very clearly explained in the Gospels, but we only have scripture that can be twisted to mean preexistence, Which the Trinitarians used to give support for their triune GOD ideology. The whole thing of The Trinity and Preexistence only Separates Jesus Likeness and Identity with US, and is a Creation of the Apostate Church. IMO peace and love………………………..gene
Gene,
How can you say that no apostle taught the pre-existence of Christ? Paul said that Jesus existed in the form of God PRIOR to His becoming a man (Philippians 2). What “bible” are you reading anyway?thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 29 2009,23:12) Quote (Gene @ May 29 2009,14:53) Irene…and Thinker……….Peter doesn't agree with the Preexistence of Christ or he would have said He preexisted, in fact no Apostle said Jesus Preexisted his berth here on earth. Wouldn't you think something as important as that would have been very clearly explained in the Gospels, but we only have scripture that can be twisted to mean preexistence, Which the Trinitarians used to give support for their triune GOD ideology. The whole thing of The Trinity and Preexistence only Separates Jesus Likeness and Identity with US, and is a Creation of the Apostate Church. IMO peace and love………………………..gene
Gene,
How can you say that no apostle taught the pre-existence of Christ? Paul said that Jesus existed in the form of God PRIOR to His becoming a man (Philippians 2). What “bible” are you reading anyway?thinker
I do not remember the “before” in Philippians 2.kerwin Phillippians 2:7 says this:” but made Him of no reputation, taking on the form of a servant,
and coming in the likeness of men.Question then is where did He come from? In order to get the answer to that question, we have to look at other Scriptures.
Co. 1:15
Rev.3:14
John 17:5
2 Scriptures do say that He was the firstborn of all creation.John 17:5 ” And now, O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”
Peace and Love Irene
Thinker ………..Look up the word existed in a Greek translation, you will find it says (EXISTING) a present tense word NOT a Past tense word as Trinitarians would like us to believe. The over all point is why do you and other have to try so hard to try to get scripture to say what in fact it specifically does not, Not to even mention what POINT would it BE for GOD to DO things that way. NO REASON, it would PROVE NOTHING TO US> If a already perfect being came and walked Perfectly, whats that got to do with Me or anyone else as far as that goes. Trinitarian and preexistences ideology do so much damage to the WORD of GOD and HIS Children it is appalling. Go reread what Paladin wrote and this time think about it. Brother IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ May 30 2009,11:17) Thinker ………..Look up the word existed in a Greek translation, you will find it says (EXISTING) a present tense word NOT a Past tense word as Trinitarians would like us to believe. The over all point is why do you and other have to try so hard to try to get scripture to say what in fact it specifically does not, Not to even mention what POINT would it BE for GOD to DO things that way. NO REASON, it would PROVE NOTHING TO US> If a already perfect being came and walked Perfectly, whats that got to do with Me or anyone else as far as that goes. Trinitarian and preexistences ideology do so much damage to the WORD of GOD and HIS Children it is appalling. Go reread what Paladin wrote and this time think about it. Brother IMO peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Gene,
Paladin says that God was an “it”. Yet you have the nerve to say that trinitarians do “damage” to the Word of God. You lose credibility by recommending Paladin's nonsense.Gene said:
Quote If a already perfect being came and walked Perfectly, whats that got to do with Me or anyone else as far as that goes. I have given you Hebrews 7 a zillion times now. God said it was “fitting” for us to have a high priest that was without weakness. So you need to take your objection to God Himself. It was His choice to give you a Savior that was “separate from sinners” (God's own words).
thinker
Thinker…….GOD is SPIRIT (intellect)…The LORD GOD. is not a man that he should lie, or a son of man that He should repent. But the Lord Said it repented Him that He had made man upon the earth. Go figure that out and you will have your answer. There is a difference between the word GOD and LORD, without understanding that you can't see what Paladin is saying, Paladin is right Spirit is an (IT) not a person as you assume (IT) is. If you add the LORD with GOD, then you have a HE. There are Seven SPIRITS of GOD each Spirit is and INTELLECT or and Attribute composing one GOD , The Spirit of truth is an IT, (an intellect that understands and recognizes truth). (IT this ability to understand truth is given unto all who have the (spirit of truth) in them, it is an attribute added to us. It is an IT, not a person. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Nick………So say the one who doesn't even know what Spirit means. Even when Jesus clearly defined (IT). We are told the things of GOD are foolishness to those of the World however. So i should expect no less from you (DUDE).
peace and love………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ June 02 2009,13:11) Thinker…….GOD is SPIRIT (intellect)…The LORD GOD. is not a man that he should lie, or a son of man that He should repent. But the Lord Said it repented Him that He had made man upon the earth. Go figure that out and you will have your answer. There is a difference between the word GOD and LORD, without understanding that you can't see what Paladin is saying, Paladin is right Spirit is an (IT) not a person as you assume (IT) is. If you add the LORD with GOD, then you have a HE. There are Seven SPIRITS of GOD each Spirit is and INTELLECT or and Attribute composing one GOD , The Spirit of truth is an IT, (an intellect that understands and recognizes truth). (IT this ability to understand truth is given unto all who have the (spirit of truth) in them, it is an attribute added to us. It is an IT, not a person. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Gene,
What has all this gobbledygook to do with anything we are saying?thinker
Nick……..So prove it instead of just mouthing off spewing out your ignorance. But Scripture say that Spirit is (words) , but you seem not able to understand what Jesus clearly explained, why is that NICK? That is odd for someone who believes scripture is (SACRED). Explain to us what a (WORD) is NICK. GOD'S words are sacred but they are a mystery to those who lack the Spirit of understanding. IMO
peace and love……………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ June 02 2009,10:03) Nick……..So prove it instead of just mouthing off spewing out your ignorance. But Scripture say that Spirit is (words) , but you seem not able to understand what Jesus clearly explained, why is that NICK? That is odd for someone who believes scripture is (SACRED). Explain to us what a (WORD) is NICK. GOD'S words are sacred but they are a mystery to those who lack the Spirit of understanding. IMO peace and love……………………………gene
Hi GeneThe problem is words are spirit but you seem to think that defines what Spirits are, therfore you think that God who is Spirit is “intellect” or words.
No God speaks words. He is not the word that he speaks!
The reason words are Spirit is because they are spoken by Spirit beings.
Intellect or words are not Spirit beings.
This kind of false teaching comes from Brenner who says that every Hebrew word or Greek word has to be interpreted the same therefore forcing the Hebrew or Greek text to mean something other than what was meant by the writers. That is ludicrous!
Blessings WJ
Quote (thethinker @ June 02 2009,20:38) Quote (Gene @ June 02 2009,13:11) Thinker…….GOD is SPIRIT (intellect)…The LORD GOD. is not a man that he should lie, or a son of man that He should repent. But the Lord Said it repented Him that He had made man upon the earth. Go figure that out and you will have your answer. There is a difference between the word GOD and LORD, without understanding that you can't see what Paladin is saying, Paladin is right Spirit is an (IT) not a person as you assume (IT) is. If you add the LORD with GOD, then you have a HE. There are Seven SPIRITS of GOD each Spirit is and INTELLECT or and Attribute composing one GOD , The Spirit of truth is an IT, (an intellect that understands and recognizes truth). (IT this ability to understand truth is given unto all who have the (spirit of truth) in them, it is an attribute added to us. It is an IT, not a person. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Gene,
What has all this gobbledygook to do with anything we are saying?thinker
Thinker ……My point was that it say the (God) is not a man or a HE, but is SPIRIT (INTELLECT) and there are seven SPIRITS of GOD, these spirits are (NOT) beings but are mental ATTRIBUTES of (ONE LORD). These Spirits or Intellectual attributes, can very easily be described as (IT'S) as paladin brought out , what part of what he explained can't you understand. When we run GOD, Elohim, (POWERS) that compose ONE LORD, as a person instead of an attributes of a person , we are not seeing it right. Jesus said howbeit it when the Spirit comes (He) shall, is a wrong interpretation it should be read (IT) Shall teach you . Trinitarians are so wanting to make GOD PERSONS , they have changed scriptures to meet their goals. There are several bibles that use the word (IT) instead of (HE) though, and they are more accurate. IMOpeace and love to you and yours brother………………gene
WJ…….We are told to Judge the Spirits, so what exactly are we judging, are we not judging what a person is saying, His Words. The reason spirits can go through arid places looking for rest is because thoughts are useless unless it is in a body, and if all thoughts have always existed then, then we simply transpose them from one person to another, to me this is what spirit is, they are thoughts which impart intellect into a being , and once they are in a person they are expressed by that person. For not what goes into the Mouth defiles the person but what comes out, for it proceeds forth from the Heart (mind) of the person and these defile the man.
But we must remember they had to go into him first in order to come out of Him. So it is with SPIRIT (it is Intellect) expressed by WORDS just as Jesus Said. The WORDS I am telling you (ARE) SPIRIT, so are all words, SPIRIT expressed intellects or thoughts. That to me is what SPIRIT is , not a (BEING) at all, but knowledge being transported by WORD to one Being to another, Spirit is nothing without a BODY to animate. When we die the Spirit (intellect) goes back to him who gave it and the person ceases to exist. “When a man dies his thoughts PARISH”> He remains that way until GOD Creates a new body and put Spirit he gave back into it. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours WJ…………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ June 02 2009,11:01) WJ…….We are told to Judge the Spirits, so what exactly are we judging, are we not judging what a person is saying, His Words. The reason spirits can go through arid places looking for rest is because thoughts are useless unless it is in a body, and if all thoughts have always existed then, then we simply transpose them from one person to another, to me this is what spirit is, they are thoughts which impart intellect into a being , and once they are in a person they are expressed by that person. For not what goes into the Mouth defiles the person but what comes out, for it proceeds forth from the Heart (mind) of the person and these defile the man.
But we must remember they had to go into him first in order to come out of Him. So it is with SPIRIT (it is Intellect) expressed by WORDS just as Jesus Said. The WORDS I am telling you (ARE) SPIRIT, so are all words, SPIRIT expressed intellects or thoughts. That to me is what SPIRIT is , not a (BEING) at all, but knowledge being transported by WORD to one Being to another, Spirit is nothing without a BODY to animate. When we die the Spirit (intellect) goes back to him who gave it and the person ceases to exist. “When a man dies his thoughts PARISH”> He remains that way until GOD Creates a new body and put Spirit he gave back into it. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours WJ…………………………gene
Hi GeneQuote (Gene @ June 02 2009,11:01) WJ…….We are told to Judge the Spirits, so what exactly are we judging, are we not judging what a person is saying What if the person is saying nothing but doing something ant-christ?
Are you saying we have to have words before we can test the Spirit of a person?
WJ
Gene So what do you think God the Father is? He was a Spirit from all eternity, and did not have a beginning. Who we call Jesus, had a beginning. John 1: 1 was the Word and the Word was with God. And that Word became flesh in verse 14. We do know, at least I do, that Jesus when He was called the Word had a name. The translators stood in Ow of Jehovah and called Him God and Jesus the Word and God. What you are saying in your post has very little to say about John 1. It has everything to say about Humans. Jesus was a Spirit being, before the world was, by Jesus own words. You are right that there also is a spirit in men. It is that Spirit when connected with God's Holy Spirit that understands the things of God. Without God's Holy Spirit we would understand very little. An example
when I talk to our Son about the trinity Doctrine, He just shakes His Head. The Father has to call us first in order to begot of His Holy Spirit. God did give us some of His Spirit, just enough, to understand to come out of the wrong Church.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Gene @ June 03 2009,03:01) WJ…….We are told to Judge the Spirits, so what exactly are we judging, are we not judging what a person is saying, His Words. The reason spirits can go through arid places looking for rest is because thoughts are useless unless it is in a body, and if all thoughts have always existed then, then we simply transpose them from one person to another, to me this is what spirit is, they are thoughts which impart intellect into a being , and once they are in a person they are expressed by that person. For not what goes into the Mouth defiles the person but what comes out, for it proceeds forth from the Heart (mind) of the person and these defile the man. But we must remember they had to go into him first in order to come out of Him. So it is with SPIRIT (it is Intellect) expressed by WORDS just as Jesus Said. The WORDS I am telling you (ARE) SPIRIT, so are all words, SPIRIT expressed intellects or thoughts. That to me is what SPIRIT is , not a (BEING) at all, but knowledge being transported by WORD to one Being to another, Spirit is nothing without a BODY to animate. When we die the Spirit (intellect) goes back to him who gave it and the person ceases to exist. “When a man dies his thoughts PARISH”> He remains that way until GOD Creates a new body and put Spirit he gave back into it. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours WJ…………………………gene
G,
You have parroted these thoughts of yours for years with no support from scripture or men.Why not go back to the rock foundation?
Irene……….You say we are spirit, truth is we have Spirit (Intellect) and all spirit has its origins from GOD who also is Spirit, all spirit comes from its source GOD, without GOD there would be (NO) Spirit. A WORD is simply an expression of INTELLECT or Thought, and (IS) spirit as Jesus said it is. “FOR the WORDS i am telling you (ARE) SPIRIT and life”. Why did He also say they were life (because all life is is Words or intellects) What can't you people understand about that. Don't you realize that Thoughts or intellect is the mind and is what is life, remove them and your dead. This may help (“For when a man dies (HIS) thoughts parish”, a mans thoughts is is mind and intellect, if not i would like any one to prove different if they can. Your beginning to sound like Nick who cant understand even simple written things.
Your assuming John meant Jesus when in fact, cant realize that If John meant Jesus he would simple have (written) Jesus there. Why do you and Trinitarians have to force scriptures to try to make it say what it does not actually say. Why is it so important that you try so hard to move Jesus away from our own identity, why try to make Him different then Us. If you and anyone else does not see Jesus as completely one of US (mankind) “son of man”, you simply don't see Jesus at all. But have turned Him into an image of an Idolater or a man of sin. Jesus is not a GOD or a Superman or demigod and to try to make him such is what Anti-Christ means. “For who so ever does not see Jesus as coming in Flesh is anti-Christ”. The word coming implies coming into (EXISTENCE), not (INCARNATION) of any kind as you and Trinitarians and preexistences preach. IMO
peace and love to you and Georg…………………..gene
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