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Hi DT,
Oh yes, the curse!
“Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper, none will sit on the throne of David or rule anymore in Judah.”
Well it’s scripturally obvious to me anyway, that this curse was lifted,
We can read all about Jeconiah’s grandson Zerubbabel in a number of OT books and other offspring of his are also spoken of (so he wasn’t rendered childless after all and there are even Babylonian tablets that list his sons).
Zerubbabel was set free from Babylon where he returns and rules as a governor over Judah (so his offspring did have a ruling position in Judah after all).
Additionally, God promised him, “You will succeed, not by military might or by your own strength, but by my Spirit. 7 Obstacles as great as mountains will disappear before you. You will rebuild the Temple, and as you put the last stone in place, the people will shout, ‘Beautiful, beautiful!’” (so Jeconiah did have offspring that prospered after all).
Additionally, God had said to Jeconiah, “”As surely as I live,” declares the LORD, “even if you, Jehoiachin son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, were a signet ring on my right hand, I would still pull you off”” but later to his grandson Zerubbabel God said, “I will make you like my signet ring, for I have chosen you” (doesn’t get more prosperous then that)!
Further, though scripture says that Jeconiah would be taken captive and the curse says he would not prosper in his lifetime, he was later set free by Evil-merodach king of Babylon and this king set Jeconiah’s throne above the throne of the other kings and he ate with the king at his table for the rest of his life. I don’t know about you DT but to me, him going from being a captive to later sitting at the kings table for the rest of his life while being honored above all the other kings sounds like prospering (advancing, making progress) to me!
Interesting enough, there are both Jews and Christians who also speak to the curse having been lifted. Jewish Literature speaks to the curse indeed having been lifted and even The Jewish Encyclopedia provides us with, “he repented of his sins which he had committed as king and he was pardoned by God, who revoked the decree to the effect that none of his descendants should ever become king; he even became the ancestor of the Messiah.”
Hi DT,
Yes, I have read Isaiah 7 many times in it’s entirety.
YOU: You go on to cite Isaiah 7 as being proof of the coming messiah.
ME: I believe God planned dual fulfillments where passages in certain books are revealed by other biblical writers to also pertain to the promised Messiah. Matthew had the understanding that indeed Isaiah 7 was speaking about the promised Messiah, a sign for the house of David concerning a rightful king. Yes, I believe what Matthew said and as far as “believing what I was told”, I have no idea what you are talking about. I haven’t attended church or followed any pastor since I was 18, so it’s been 30 years. I read and decide what scripture says for myself. I have gone through every Christian faith though and studied their doctrines to see how it lines up with the sum of all scripture.
After Jesus rose from the dead, ” beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself” (Luke 24:27. So it seems that it was not readily known by folks all the scriptures that in fact did pertain to the Messiah. I don’t have a problem with this, God reveals things according to His own plan and purpose and Matthew as well as others were given revelation to share. Future representation/fulfillment to events from the past that are later revealed as such that then hold a greater significance to God’s plan and purpose is AWESOME, God is CLEVER and God is GREAT!!
Jodi said…….>”After Jesus rose from the dead, ” beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself” (Luke 24:27. So it seems that it was not readily known by folks all the scriptures that in fact did pertain to the Messiah. I don’t have a problem with this, God reveals things according to His own plan and purpose and Matthew as well as others were given revelation to share. Future representation/fulfillment to events from the past that are later revealed as such that then hold a greater significance to God’s plan and purpose is AWESOME, God is CLEVER and God is GREAT!!”
AMEN TO THAT , Jodi
peace and love to you and your Jodi………..gene
Thank you Gene!
DT,
Let me clarify my position regarding the conception of Jesus.
Matthew tells us that Jesus is a biological son of Abraham and David through Joseph, we know this because Matthew specifically uses the words GENESIS (a book of one’s LINEAGE, ORIGIN) and the word GENEA (the successive members of a GENEALOGY).
Mary, a young woman of marriageable age, was betrothed to Joseph and by Mary’s own words she had never been with a man. If you are a young woman of marriageable age from any tribe of Israel and you have sex before marriage you are to be taken in front of your fathers house and are to be stoned to death. An “almah” is to be a virgin period, for if you are a young woman and you are not a virgin, you are as good as dead and certainly not marriageable!
Today, with man’s technology, virgins can become pregnant with the seed of a man of their choosing through in- vitro fertilization, but in Mary’s time the only way she could possibly conceive a biological son of Joseph as a virgin, is through the power of God’s Holy Spirit, which is exactly what scripture tells us. Similar to that which man can do now, is something most certainly God’s Spirit is able to accomplish, He did it in-vivo. DT, is a son born of artificial insemination biologically the son of the seed planted into the woman’s egg or is the son considered a son of the mechanism that planted the seed?
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