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Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2009,14:44) Hi KW,
God is light.
God's Spirit makes Jesus the light of the world.
Are you saying that the light is God's Spirit coming into the world?John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.John 1:2
He was in the beginning with God.1Jn1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2009,15:06) John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.John 1:2
He was in the beginning with God.1Jn1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
How do you know the word and word of life are the same?John 6:63(NIV) reads:
Quote The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
John 5:24-26(NIV) reads:
Quote I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.
Does verse 26 sound like John 1:1?
Here is something interesting I found. In the New Testament the word Logos was used over a thousand times. It was translated as “things”. Whenever you see the word “things” it is either Logos or Rhema which is more of a total discussion.But Logos itself was used approximately 1000 times. Peace, TK
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2009,21:24) Hi KW,
Jesus is
THE RESURRECTION.
THE LIFE
THE TRUTH
THE BREAD
THE WAY
and
THE WORD
Nick……….Wrong again brother, Jesus is the (REPRESENTATIVE) to us of those things, He himself is (NOT) them, GOD the FATHER is Those thing NOT Jesus, Jesus does not have Power to given or do those things (HIMSELF), ONLY GOD CAN. If you attribute those things to Jesus Himself then you should not be disputing with WJ ,because you also believe Jesus is a GOD then. IMOpeace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
but Gene… am I to take your word for it… or Jesus'? He said of Himself:
John 11:25 (ESV) Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live”
John 14:6 (ESV) 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
I just do not see that Jesus ever claimed merely to be the “representative”…. gonna have to go with Jesus on this one….
but I do agree with your conclusion re Nick… He should be bowing his knee before Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Holy One of Israel, mighty God, Alpha and Omega, King of Kings and Lord of Lords…. but then that would be to both correct in his understanding of who Jesus is, and then, to be consistent…. we can't have that now… can we? 😉
blessings,
kenQuote (epistemaniac @ April 15 2009,03:35) but Gene… am I to take your word for it… or Jesus'? He said of Himself: John 11:25 (ESV) Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live”
John 14:6 (ESV) 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
I just do not see that Jesus ever claimed merely to be the “representative”…. gonna have to go with Jesus on this one….
but I do agree with your conclusion re Nick… He should be bowing his knee before Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Holy One of Israel, mighty God, Alpha and Omega, King of Kings and Lord of Lords…. but then that would be to both correct in his understanding of who Jesus is, and then, to be consistent…. we can't have that now… can we? 😉
blessings,
ken
Hi KenTrue!
Good to see you again. Hope all is well with you and yours!
Blessings Keith
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 15 2009,04:41) Quote (epistemaniac @ April 15 2009,03:35) but Gene… am I to take your word for it… or Jesus'? He said of Himself: John 11:25 (ESV) Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live”
John 14:6 (ESV) 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
I just do not see that Jesus ever claimed merely to be the “representative”…. gonna have to go with Jesus on this one….
but I do agree with your conclusion re Nick… He should be bowing his knee before Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Holy One of Israel, mighty God, Alpha and Omega, King of Kings and Lord of Lords…. but then that would be to both correct in his understanding of who Jesus is, and then, to be consistent…. we can't have that now… can we? 😉
blessings,
ken
Hi KenTrue!
Good to see you again. Hope all is well with you and yours!
Blessings Keith
Hey Keith… good to see you again as well…..everything is good my way, thanks…..
hopefully the same is for you and yours as well….
blessings,
kenQuote (Gene @ April 15 2009,03:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2009,21:24) Hi KW,
Jesus is
THE RESURRECTION.
THE LIFE
THE TRUTH
THE BREAD
THE WAY
and
THE WORD
Nick……….Wrong again brother, Jesus is the (REPRESENTATIVE) to us of those things, He himself is (NOT) them, GOD the FATHER is Those thing NOT Jesus, Jesus does not have Power to given or do those things (HIMSELF), ONLY GOD CAN. If you attribute those things to Jesus Himself then you should not be disputing with WJ ,because you also believe Jesus is a GOD then. IMOpeace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
G,
Your argument is with Jesus.
Apart from saying he was the Word he made those claimsHi E,
Indeed all will bow the knee to King Jesus.
But is that your idea of what true worship is??Jesus said something quite different in Jn4
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2009,08:51) Hi E,
Indeed all will bow the knee to King Jesus.
But is that your idea of what true worship is??
Jesus said something quite different in Jn4
NHThe problem you have is the same word “proskyneō” Jesus used in describing “true worship” to the Father is the same word that many times was practiced on him by believers and no one else, and yet not once did Jesus discourage their actions and say worship the Father only!
How do you explain this?
WJ
Nick……..why did Jesus tell the words he spoke were (NOT) his then, seeing (HE) is the word.
YOU and WJ are more alike in your beliefs then you think.Tell us what does this mean to you, Luke 11:27 …> and it came to pass, as he spake these things a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare you, and the paps which you hast sucked. But He (Jesus) said Yea reather belssed are they that hear the word of GOD, and Keep it. Interesting , He did not say His words did He. Therefore He was not taking credit for the words of GOD at all it appears. So how say you He (IS) the Word. When He doesn't rake credit for them.
Heres another one you and WJ can chew on. “He that believes on me, believes (NOT) on me, but on Him that sent me”. What does that mean to you both.
love and peace to you and yours………………gene
Nick………To say one is the true way and bread to life, is far from saying the person himself is the giver of the life . Again Jesus' who purpose was to show us the way to a right relationship with God , but to give him the credit of GOD Himself is error of the the meaning spoken in the text. We look to Jesus as the way to that life from the Father, but not to him as the life himself. You would think you would understand that seeing Jesus said He is the (WAY), why would he be the (WAY) if He was Himself the life. Jesus did not even give himself life much less anyone else. As i said you and WJ may be more alike then you think brother. You don't seem to be able to seperate a (MAN) from a GOD. IMO
love and peace to you and yours…………………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ April 15 2009,13:17) Nick……..why did Jesus tell the words he spoke were (NOT) his then, seeing (HE) is the word.
YOU and WJ are more alike in your beliefs then you think.Tell us what does this mean to you, Luke 11:27 …> and it came to pass, as he spake these things a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare you, and the paps which you hast sucked. But He (Jesus) said Yea reather belssed are they that hear the word of GOD, and Keep it. Interesting , He did not say His words did He. Therefore He was not taking credit for the words of GOD at all it appears. So how say you He (IS) the Word. When He doesn't rake credit for them.
Heres another one you and WJ can chew on. “He that believes on me, believes (NOT) on me, but on Him that sent me”. What does that mean to you both.
love and peace to you and yours………………gene
GeneThat is your problem bro. You like other Unitarians fail to take all scripture in account.
You quote parts of scripture without context.
Did you even read the next verse?
“And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me“. John 12:45
So Jesus is not saying at all what you are implying.
Jesus is saying when you believe in me you are believing in God and when you see me you are seeing God.
Now tie that in with this…
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and “YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME, PHILIP? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; AND HOW SAYEST THOU THEN, SHEW US THE FATHER”? John 14:9
Gene, Jesus would also ask you, “do you know me and how is it that you say show me God when you have seen me you have seen God”.
WJ
Thank you epistemaniac for this quote as it gives a look into Jesus' way of speaking that seems to confuse so many.
Quote John 11:25 (ESV) Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live” Notice that Jesus states “I am the resurrection and the life.” and then interprets his own words with his next statement “Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live”
In other words Jesus is only the resurrection and the life in the way that those who believe he is the Anointed One promised beforehand by God and thus obey his teaching will gain eternal life.
I believe John 1:1 is not speaking of Jesus but it is talking about the message(word) of salvation that has been hidden in God since before the creation of this world.
WJ………….Jesus is the work of the Father and the Father was in Him guiding Him in what ever He did, “the son of Man can do (nothing) of Himself”. Why , WJ if he is GOD He could do what ever he wanted , Doesn't it say, “for GOD does (ALL) things after the council of His own WILL”, But Jesus said He couldn't, and also said He came not to DO HIS WILL but the Will of Him who sent Him, so if Jesus was doing another's Will and not His, He could easily say if you have seen me you have seen the Father because it was the Fathers Will he was doing, But that does not make Jesus himself GOD or the FATHER as you say. IMO
love and peace to you and yours…………………………………….gene
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