JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

Participant

Hi tt,
There is no universal acceptance of the root of GENES

Number 3439
Transliteration:
monogenes {mon-og-en-ace'}
Word Origin:
from 3441 and 1096
TDNT:
4:737,606
Part of Speech:
adjective
Usage in the KJV:
only begotten 6, only 2, only child 1

Total: 9
Definition:
single of its kind, only
used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God

His uniqueness is part of the meaning but not unique sonship.

February 22, 2009 at 9:30 pm#122489

Participant

Hi TT,
So it does not mean ONLY begotten son.

Isaac also was a MONOGENES SON

Hebrews 11:17
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

February 22, 2009 at 9:43 pm#122494

Participant

Nick said:

Quote

Hi tt,
There is no universal acceptance of the root of GENES

Nick,
It's not accurate to say that there is no universal acceptance of the Greek “genes”. It is better to say that the meaning of the word varies depending on its use in context. John 1:1 explicitly says that the Word was “God”. Then it says that He was the true light and also the life.

God is light, Christ is light. God is life, Christ is life. Therefore, He is God's kind.

IT'S ALL ABOUT CONTEXT NICK! No degree in rocket science is needed to figure it out. Yet there are some who fancy themselves as knowledgable in the Greek and they try to make a case against Trinitarianism base on the Greek definite article in 1:1. Their treatment of the Greek definite article is a total fabrication. And their commentary of John 1:1 is totally out of context.

Thinker

February 22, 2009 at 9:51 pm#122496

Participant

Hi tt,
No the LIGHT WAS IN HIM.
He was only the light because he was FILLED WITH LIGHT AND TRUTH

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

A vessel filled with God does not become that God

Ephesians 3:19
and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

February 23, 2009 at 12:39 am#122517

Participant

Nick said:

Quote

No the LIGHT WAS IN HIM.
He was only the light because he was FILLED WITH LIGHT AND TRUTH

No Nick! It says that the Word Himself was the “TRUE light”. What Bible are you reading Nick?

thinker

February 23, 2009 at 12:55 am#122520

Participant

Hi tt,
1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

As Jesus was the LIGHT so are we
John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 9:5
As long as I am in the world, I am the light[ 5457] of the world.
Number 5457
Transliteration:
phos {foce}
Word Origin:
from an obsolete phao (to shine or make manifest, especially by rays, cf 5316, 5346)
TDNT:
9:310,1293
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
Usage in the KJV:
light 68, fire 2

Total: 70
Definition:
light
the light
emitted by a lamp
a heavenly light such as surrounds angels when they appear on earth
anything emitting light
a star
fire because it is light and sheds light
a lamp or torch
light, i.e brightness
of a lamp
metaph.
God is light because light has the extremely delicate, subtle, pure, brilliant quality
of truth and its knowledge, together with the spiritual purity associated with it
that which is exposed to the view of all, openly, publicly
reason, mind
the power of understanding esp. moral and spiritual truth For Synonyms see entry 5817
Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light [5457]of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Philippians 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

February 23, 2009 at 8:23 am#122588

Participant

Nick said:

Quote

As Jesus was the LIGHT so are we
John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Nick,
No person other then Christ is called the “true” light in the Scripture. John the baptist was not,

Quote

There was a man sent from God whose name was John. He came as a witness to bear witness about the Light. He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the Light. The TRUE light which enlightens everyone

We are NOT light “even as” Jesus was Light. We are light in the sense as John the Baptist in that we bear witness to the “True Light”. We are light in the sense that we lead people to the Light. Only Jesus is the True Light in Himself.

God is light, Jesus is the True Light, therefore, Jesus is God's kin.

I't all about context Nick!

thinker

February 23, 2009 at 9:14 am#122592

Participant

Hi TT,
We follow Jesus.
We are alike to him so that we can.
He is not a superman god we cannot follow.

We are as lights on the hill that cannot be hidden.

February 23, 2009 at 3:48 pm#122613

Participant

Nick said:

Quote

We follow Jesus.
We are alike to him so that we can.
He is not a superman god we cannot follow.

We are as lights on the hill that cannot be hidden.

Nick,
You said that we follow Jesus and you are correct. This makes Him the Light in a special way that no others can be,

Quote

I am the Light of the world. He that follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. (John 8:12)

God is Light. Jesus is the Light to be followed. Therefore, Jesus is God's kin.

It's all about CONTEXT Nick….

thinker

February 23, 2009 at 3:49 pm#122615

Participant

Nick said:

Quote

We follow Jesus.
We are alike to him so that we can.
He is not a superman god we cannot follow.

We are as lights on the hill that cannot be hidden.

Nick,
You said that we follow Jesus and you are correct. This makes Him the Light in a special way that no others can be,

Quote

I am the Light of the world. He that follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. (John 8:12)

God is Light. Jesus is the Light to be followed. Therefore, Jesus is God's kin.

It's all about CONTEXT Nick….

thinker

February 23, 2009 at 4:53 pm#122620

Participant

To ALL…………..Here is an example, God=the sun, Jesus=the moon, the light Jesus gives is a reflection of the light of the FATHER. Jesus is (NOT) the source of that Light, it is the FATHER. and when the light of the Father is on us we to reflect it also as Jesus does. Remember to Image means to reflect, or mirror something, but itself is never what it reflects or images. What Its reflecting is never from it self. So as it is with Jesus and Us. WE IMAGE GOD, we or Jesus are not GOD Himself. IMO

peace and love to you all…………………….gene

February 23, 2009 at 6:11 pm#122633

Participant

Gene said:

Quote

Gene,
I disagree. Jesus is the “Sun”. He is explicitly called the True light (John 1:9). There is no getting around it. His people are the “moon.”

thinker

February 23, 2009 at 6:56 pm#122648

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 24 2009,02:49)

Nick said:

Quote

We follow Jesus.
We are alike to him so that we can.
He is not a superman god we cannot follow.

We are as lights on the hill that cannot be hidden.

Nick,
You said that we follow Jesus and you are correct. This makes Him the Light in a special way that no others can be,

Quote

I am the Light of the world. He that follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. (John 8:12)

God is Light. Jesus is the Light to be followed. Therefore, Jesus is God's kin.

It's all about CONTEXT Nick….

thinker

Hi tt,
The light in Christ is the same that can be in us.

February 24, 2009 at 3:44 am#122810

Participant

thinker ………i would tend to agree with you , but remember Jesus said the words were not His words , but the Fathers words, so He definitely showed a speration between Him and the Father. John 17:8 …> For i have given unto them the words which (YOU) gave me,… and again, John 17:14… > I have given them (THY) word; This shows that Jesus did not originate those words but received them. And passed them on to us. IMO.

peace……………gene

February 24, 2009 at 3:47 am#122812

Proclaimer

Participant

Yet Jesus calls us the light and the salt.

Matthew 5:13-14
13″You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
14″You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.

Surely his words are true?

February 24, 2009 at 4:01 am#122818

Participant

T8………i believe we are the light of the world , if His words abide in Us we should be able to give Hope to the world and everyone we come in contact with, I agree with your brother.

peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

February 24, 2009 at 2:59 pm#122854

Participant

Gene said:

Quote

Gene,
Jesus also said that the Father's truth was equally His truth too,

Quote

However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He shall not speak on His own, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He willl show you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take what is Mine and explain it to you. All things that the Father has ar Mine. Therefore, I said that He will explain what is Mine to you (John 16:13-15)

What you say is also true because Christ was God's Representative to men. Therefore, in terms of Christ's relationship to men He gave the words of God and passed them on to us. But in terms of Christ's relationship to His own Father He said that all truth was His as well as His Father's.

thinker

February 24, 2009 at 5:17 pm#122869

Participant

Thinker……….brother where you would say (HIS) own Father. I would say (OUR) Own Father, I see Jesus as an extension of ourselves, I am going to My Father and YOUR Father, My God and YOUR GOD. A common connection is the way I see it brother. Jesus is a heir but so are we, heirs and Joint heirs with Christ. “I do not say i will Pray the Father for you for the Father himself love you even as He loves me.”I never separate Jesus' likeness from our own. He is our elder brother in the Family of GOD , the Firstborn Member of that Family and as the first born he hold that position and always will. I am flexed to Jesus, he is my brother the King, who (OUR) Father has placed over us. IMO

love and Peace to you and yours…………………………………….gene

February 24, 2009 at 5:33 pm#122870

Participant

T8………..now with regards to the word Logos, I assume you are referring to John 1:1………remember in the Greek language every thing was written in Captials letters so there is no way we can determine if the word , word was upper or lower case as the translators have written it. If we read John 1:1, in very simple language, this is what we would get, “in (the) beginning was the word (expressed intellect) and the word (expressed intellect) was with GOD, (POWERS) and the word (expressed intellect)was GOD (POWERS)” This has nothing to do with separate beings but simply the expressed intellectual power of God Creating everything in the very beginning of everything. And this intellect is what enlightens every man coming into the earth. God give intellect (Spirit) to man and it enlightens him. This is all John was saying, to try to take beyond that is simply forcing the text as Trinitarians do to try to give Jesus and equality with GOD and a preexistence status. IMO

love and peace to you and yours………………….gene

February 24, 2009 at 5:45 pm#122871