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DAVID
Quote If the scripture very clearly and very plainly says in all bibles that he offered his “body”, his human body, and we are also told that he sacrificed his life, what does that tell us? If someone kills my body, then I am dead. Jesus was a human while on earth. He gave up his human body. He sacrificed his human life.
A human body is connected to their life. When you wake up tomorrow, try living without your body. It won't work.
Very sorry, quite ill. Will respond to posts in a day or two.
NO dAVID ONLY hEBREW 10;10 SAYS IN ALL BIBLE THE SAME THING
MT 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
MK 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
BUT THOSE TWO SCRIPTURES ARE ALSO IN ALL BIBLES AND THEY ARE TWO NOT ONE AND IT HIS FROM CHRIST NOT FROM PAUL
SO CHRIST WAS RIGHT WEN HE SAID FLESH MEANS NOTHING,
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2012,09:58) Quote (david @ Nov. 04 2012,12:41) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 03 2012,01:42) ] Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2012,11:38) “tell me, what was offered, was it the li[f]e or the body “– terr What does heb 10:10 say?
]davidMT 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
MK 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
LK 9:24 “For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it.
LK 12:15 Then He said to them, “ Beware, and be on your guard against every form of greed; for not even when one has an abundance does his life consist of his possessions.”
LK 12:22 And He said to His disciples, “ For this reason I say to you, do not worry about your life, as to what you will eat; nor for your body, as to what you will put on.
LK 12:23 “For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing.LK 15:24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.
LK 17:33 “ Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
so with those scriptures what is the body worth ???the onlything we have is the sacrifice to God the will of our flesh by doing the will of God and so not of the body or flesh,the body his NOT YOUR LIFE
If the scripture very clearly and very plainly says in all bibles that he offered his “body”, his human body, and we are also told that he sacrificed his life, what does that tell us?If someone kills my body, then I am dead. Jesus was a human while on earth. He gave up his human body. He sacrificed his human life.
A human body is connected to their life. When you wake up tomorrow, try living without your body. It won't work.
Very sorry, quite ill. Will respond to posts in a day or two.
davidyou are pointing the scriptures in Heb 10;10 Heb 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
but this are the words of Christ ;MK 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many
I have given you many scriptures that says he ransom his LIFE
so what his your take now
?
I never said he didn't sacrifice his lifeBut every bible I checked says at heb 10:10 that he offered his body.
Both statements are true.
So, combining them, it seems he offered his earthly, physical, fleshly human body (and of course his life)
Or, put another way, he offered his (human) life, which meant offering his (human) body.
Quote (david @ Nov. 05 2012,07:08) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2012,09:58) Quote (david @ Nov. 04 2012,12:41) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 03 2012,01:42) ] Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2012,11:38) “tell me, what was offered, was it the li[f]e or the body “– terr What does heb 10:10 say?
]davidMT 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
MK 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
LK 9:24 “For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it.
LK 12:15 Then He said to them, “ Beware, and be on your guard against every form of greed; for not even when one has an abundance does his life consist of his possessions.”
LK 12:22 And He said to His disciples, “ For this reason I say to you, do not worry about your life, as to what you will eat; nor for your body, as to what you will put on.
LK 12:23 “For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing.LK 15:24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.
LK 17:33 “ Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
so with those scriptures what is the body worth ???the onlything we have is the sacrifice to God the will of our flesh by doing the will of God and so not of the body or flesh,the body his NOT YOUR LIFE
If the scripture very clearly and very plainly says in all bibles that he offered his “body”, his human body, and we are also told that he sacrificed his life, what does that tell us?If someone kills my body, then I am dead. Jesus was a human while on earth. He gave up his human body. He sacrificed his human life.
A human body is connected to their life. When you wake up tomorrow, try living without your body. It won't work.
Very sorry, quite ill. Will respond to posts in a day or two.
davidyou are pointing the scriptures in Heb 10;10 Heb 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
but this are the words of Christ ;MK 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many
I have given you many scriptures that says he ransom his LIFE
so what his your take now
?
I never said he didn't sacrifice his lifeBut every bible I checked says at heb 10:10 that he offered his body.
Both statements are true.
So, combining them, it seems he offered his earthly, physical, fleshly human body (and of course his life)
Or, put another way, he offered his (human) life, which meant offering his (human) body.
DavidSo how was I so clearly wrong as you put it,???
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2012,12:15) Quote (david @ Nov. 05 2012,07:08) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2012,09:58) Quote (david @ Nov. 04 2012,12:41) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 03 2012,01:42) ] Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2012,11:38) “tell me, what was offered, was it the li[f]e or the body “– terr What does heb 10:10 say?
]davidMT 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
MK 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
LK 9:24 “For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it.
LK 12:15 Then He said to them, “ Beware, and be on your guard against every form of greed; for not even when one has an abundance does his life consist of his possessions.”
LK 12:22 And He said to His disciples, “ For this reason I say to you, do not worry about your life, as to what you will eat; nor for your body, as to what you will put on.
LK 12:23 “For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing.LK 15:24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.
LK 17:33 “ Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
so with those scriptures what is the body worth ???the onlything we have is the sacrifice to God the will of our flesh by doing the will of God and so not of the body or flesh,the body his NOT YOUR LIFE
If the scripture very clearly and very plainly says in all bibles that he offered his “body”, his human body, and we are also told that he sacrificed his life, what does that tell us?If someone kills my body, then I am dead. Jesus was a human while on earth. He gave up his human body. He sacrificed his human life.
A human body is connected to their life. When you wake up tomorrow, try living without your body. It won't work.
Very sorry, quite ill. Will respond to posts in a day or two.
davidyou are pointing the scriptures in Heb 10;10 Heb 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
but this are the words of Christ ;MK 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many
I have given you many scriptures that says he ransom his LIFE
so what his your take now
?
I never said he didn't sacrifice his lifeBut every bible I checked says at heb 10:10 that he offered his body.
Both statements are true.
So, combining them, it seems he offered his earthly, physical, fleshly human body (and of course his life)
Or, put another way, he offered his (human) life, which meant offering his (human) body.
DavidSo how was I so clearly wrong as you put it,???
“Jesus said the body means nothing.”–terrThen I said: you are clearly wrong. (See heb 10:10, where all bibles say that he offered his “body.”)
If the body means nothing, then Jesus offered his body..nothing.
((I really dislike these little side conversations that take up so much space but have no meaning or connection to the topic.))
My first statement:
The Puzzle: Why would Jesus’ disciples who were standing in front of him ever have to ask Jesus: “Who are you”?
“Not one of the disciples had the courage to inquire of him: “Who are you?” because they knew it was the Lord.” (John 21:12)If they actually “KNEW” it was The Lord, if they actually knew who it was, why, oh why, would they have any reason to ever ask the question: “who…are….you?
(Rather than ignore this question and focus on why this whole thread is wrong, can someone please attempt to discuss this question)?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2012,12:53) Quote (david @ Oct. 31 2012,23:46) This one scripture in itself shows that it was the 'BODY' of Jesus Christ that was sacrificed! And if that is what was sacrificed, as a ransom sacrifice, does it make sense that it would be given back?
Okay, thanks for that! But the point still remains that Jesus sacrificed his LIFE, and got that back.You can distinguish between “lives” by saying his “human life” was sacrificed, and he got back a “different life” if you want to. But there is no scripture to say this. Nor is there any scripture that says a “human life” is a different kind of LIFE than a “spirit life”.
As I see it, you're either ALIVE (spirit or flesh)………….. or you're DEAD (spirit or flesh).
Why would he get back what he sacrificed (gave up)?He did not get his (human) body back that he offered up. He did not get his (human) life back either. You saying that the point still remains that he sacrificed his life and got it back is sort of exactly what we are discussing.
Did he get his human life back? (Or did he sacrifice it)?
I think he sacrificed it, gave it up.
He sacrificed (offered, forfeited, surrendered, relinquished, gave away) his body and life.
If he was then handed back that same life, in what since did he sacrifice it?
Quote (david @ Nov. 05 2012,09:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2012,12:53) Quote (david @ Oct. 31 2012,23:46) This one scripture in itself shows that it was the 'BODY' of Jesus Christ that was sacrificed! And if that is what was sacrificed, as a ransom sacrifice, does it make sense that it would be given back?
Okay, thanks for that! But the point still remains that Jesus sacrificed his LIFE, and got that back.You can distinguish between “lives” by saying his “human life” was sacrificed, and he got back a “different life” if you want to. But there is no scripture to say this. Nor is there any scripture that says a “human life” is a different kind of LIFE than a “spirit life”.
As I see it, you're either ALIVE (spirit or flesh)………….. or you're DEAD (spirit or flesh).
Why would he get back what he sacrificed (gave up)?He did not get his (human) body back that he offered up. He did not get his (human) life back either. You saying that the point still remains that he sacrificed his life and got it back is sort of exactly what we are discussing.
Did he get his human life back? (Or did he sacrifice it)?
I think he sacrificed it, gave it up.
He sacrificed (offered, forfeited, surrendered, relinquished, gave away) his body and life.
If he was then handed back that same life, in what since did he sacrifice it?
davidQuote Why would he get back what he sacrificed (gave up)? first ,answer to that question ;why not ,the sacrifice of his live was done ,and has a priest he can do with the sacrifice of the flesh what he wanted to do ;after Christ resurrection one more thing was left to be done and that was to show his disciples that all what he had said has come through and so uses his old body to show them that in fact he has resurrected ;but there his a more profound meaning to that what I can not say at the present time or do not want to say,
the 40 days that Christ spend with his disciple were more important than the previous 3.5 years to his disciples.
Jn 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
I have learn lately that JW are not trained to learn but to teach what they have learn from their organization ,and so have a preconceived mind of how to be submit and apply scriptures in regard of that received teachings.
Quote the 40 days that Christ spend with his disciple were more important than the previous 3.5 years to his disciples. Did he “spend” 40 days with his disciples? Or, does scripture tell us that he appeared, disappeared, appeared again, etc?
I have learned that almost everyone has a bias or preconceived idea (which just so happens to be what they believe). Although it happens, very few people on here have ever changed their beliefs very much.
How many ideas have you thrown away since you have been posting on here, terr? Now that we have established that people are generally biased, can we focus on the actual arguments?
It was called a sacrifice which suggests many things. It was also called a ransom.
If someone pays a ransom, to get something back, are they generally given the ransom back?You say that Jesus used his old body to prove that he was resurrected. This simply brings me back to the very first question I ever asked on here, which no one has touched:
If that is true, why would Jesus disciples, who had become extremely close to Jesus, and who were standing right in front of him, ever have to ask: “who are you,” given that it specifically says, “because they KNEW it was The Lord.”
Their mind wasn't blocked from seeing that it was Jesus, “because they KNEW it was The Lord.” So, why would they have to ask who he was.
The subject of physical and heavenly bodies is a bit of a mystery.
Yes we will be transformed just as he was.
Our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his and he will call us brothers.Looking at this another way. There were sons of God that left their abodes and took for themselves wives from among men. Their offspring were different to humans and God destroyed that world with water sparing Noah who was without blemish and was righteous. The Book of Enoch expands this story and mentions that these sons of God were able to take on human form. We also see in the Old Testament where angels looked like men and were thought to be men.
The only idea I have about all this is that the spiritual body has a physical dimension to it. So as scripture says that the seen came from the unseen, this tells me that the physical comes from the spiritual and is not a separate realm. Thus it begs the question, can a physical body come from a spiritual one?
We know that our physical bodies will be transformed to spiritual, so why not the other way round.
In fact the sin that these angels committed with humans is likened to homosexuality or at least sexual immortality by indulging in unnatural lusts.
Jude 1:6-7
6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.Genesis 6:1-5
6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
So how does an angel commit sexual immorality with humans. Does the idea of them taking a physical body explain it?
david
Quote How many ideas have you thrown away since you have been posting on here, terr? one or two ;one mike told you ,the other one can't remember right now,
david
Quote If that is true, why would Jesus disciples, who had become extremely close to Jesus, and who were standing right in front of him, ever have to ask: “who are you,” given that it specifically says, “because they KNEW it was The Lord.” Their mind wasn't blocked from seeing that it was Jesus, “because they KNEW it was The Lord.” So, why would they have to ask who he was.
I am almost sure that if I would have been there with them I would have reacted in the same way ;as long that Christ the man they knew ,talk to,walk with , discus with, see ,touched him ,eat with, and sew him die in an horrific way and same being there at his feet,
and then suddenly all his calm no more seeing him ,no more talking to him ,emotionally they are down ,not knowing what his to come ,Christ last message was that what happen has to be ;for the truth .then suddenly in a closed room their he was talking to them ,,,how would you feel
me I would be paralyzed in speech and moves ,unable to think ,at the leased for a good moment ,[/B]
Ac 2:32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all (the disciples (+- 500)witnesses of the fact.
So, can you work me through your thought process then, as to why you would be afraid to ask: “who are you”?
Why would eh have to ask this at all.
If I met you today, spent 1 hour with you, then you went away and I saw you 3 days or 3 weeks later, I wouldn't have any reason to ask: “who are you”? But these were people that basically lived with him for 3 1/2 years. If you lived with and spent most of your time with someone for that much time, why would you ever have to ask: “who are you”?, especially if you “knew” who it was.
Imagine you have a brother, who you know we'll, and are like brothers with. He goes away for a very short time. Then he shows up, and you “know” it is him. Yet, for some reason, you are afraid to ask: “who are you.”
Now, can you xplain your thought process as to why:
–You would have to ask “who are you”
–And, why you would be afraid to ask, on the basis that you already knew who it was.Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 06 2012,13:47) david Quote If that is true, why would Jesus disciples, who had become extremely close to Jesus, and who were standing right in front of him, ever have to ask: “who are you,” given that it specifically says, “because they KNEW it was The Lord.” Their mind wasn't blocked from seeing that it was Jesus, “because they KNEW it was The Lord.” So, why would they have to ask who he was.
I am almost sure that if I would have been there with them I would have reacted in the same way ;as long that Christ the man they knew ,talk to,walk with , discus with, see ,touched him ,eat with, and sew him die in an horrific way and same being there at his feet,
and then suddenly all his calm no more seeing him ,no more talking to him ,emotionally they are down ,not knowing what his to come ,Christ last message was that what happen has to be ;for the truth .then suddenly in a closed room their he was talking to them ,,,how would you feel
me I would be paralyzed in speech and moves ,unable to think ,at the leased for a good moment ,[/B]
Ac 2:32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all (the disciples (+- 500)witnesses of the fact.
If I remember, the account I refer to is on the beach. I should check that.You say you would have “reacted the same way.” But you don't seem to know how they reacted in the scripture I am asking about.
You say you would be paralyses in speech…
But the scripture I ask about doesnt say they were afraid to speak. It says they knew it was The Lord, and because of knowing, no one had the courage to ask of him “WHO ARE YOU?”
–if you were there, terr, why would you have to ask that question in e first place? Sure, you might be freaked out by seeing him. But, why would you have to ask: WHO ARE YOU?
Quote (david @ Nov. 06 2012,09:59) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 06 2012,13:47) david Quote If that is true, why would Jesus disciples, who had become extremely close to Jesus, and who were standing right in front of him, ever have to ask: “who are you,” given that it specifically says, “because they KNEW it was The Lord.” Their mind wasn't blocked from seeing that it was Jesus, “because they KNEW it was The Lord.” So, why would they have to ask who he was.
I am almost sure that if I would have been there with them I would have reacted in the same way ;as long that Christ the man they knew ,talk to,walk with , discus with, see ,touched him ,eat with, and sew him die in an horrific way and same being there at his feet,
and then suddenly all his calm no more seeing him ,no more talking to him ,emotionally they are down ,not knowing what his to come ,Christ last message was that what happen has to be ;for the truth .then suddenly in a closed room their he was talking to them ,,,how would you feel
me I would be paralyzed in speech and moves ,unable to think ,at the leased for a good moment ,[/B]
Ac 2:32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all (the disciples (+- 500)witnesses of the fact.
If I remember, the account I refer to is on the beach. I should check that.You say you would have “reacted the same way.” But you don't seem to know how they reacted in the scripture I am asking about.
You say you would be paralyses in speech…
But the scripture I ask about doesnt say they were afraid to speak. It says they knew it was The Lord, and because of knowing, no one had the courage to ask of him “WHO ARE YOU?”
–if you were there, terr, why would you have to ask that question in e first place? Sure, you might be freaked out by seeing him. But, why would you have to ask: WHO ARE YOU?
davidare you talking at each time or at all of the times
the first time i am convinced they recognized him and he made it that they would recognize him,but this would not stoped them to be like you say freeked out
Quote So how does an angel commit sexual immorality with humans. Does the idea of them taking a physical body explain it? Yes, taking on a physical body makes perfect sense to me.
I think it hits the nail on the head!Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2012,01:41) There are angels of God, and there are fallen angels. They are all spirits, regardless. You have to use discernment.
In other words, “Mike, I'm asking you to discern it the way that I discern it, because I don't really have an answer to the good point you made.”
Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2012,01:41) It doesn't appear that they recognised Christ, it says they were terrified and frightened, and thought they saw a spirit.
Are you implying that the spirit they thought they were seeing didn't look like Jesus? I have never thought such a thing. I have always understood that they recognized it was Jesus, but they knew Jesus had died, and so thought they were seeing the ghost of Jesus.Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2012,01:41) Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, ye see me have.
Obviously, this “spirit” looked just like Jesus, or he wouldn't have used the personal pronouns “I myself”. What would “it is I myself” mean to the disciples if the supposed apparition didn't even look like Jesus?Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2012,01:41) So can flesh appear in another form?
Matthew 17:2
There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2012,01:41) Can flesh vanish?
Acts 8
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2012,01:41) Mike, are you not aware that angels are spirit? Do you really think they eat our food?
There are many scriptures that clearly speak about angels eating food. Why would you ask that question?Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2012,01:41) Angels eat this same spiritual food. The Word of God, because they are obeying him and they are holy.
Psalm 78
18 They willfully put God to the test
by demanding the food they craved.
19 They spoke against God, saying,
“Can God spread a table in the desert?
20 When he struck the rock, water gushed out,
and streams flowed abundantly.
But can he also give us food?
Can he supply meat for his people?”
21 When the Lord heard them, he was very angry;
his fire broke out against Jacob,
and his wrath rose against Israel,
22 for they did not believe in God
or trust in his deliverance.
23 Yet he gave a command to the skies above
and opened the doors of the heavens;
24 he rained down manna for the people to eat,
he gave them the grain of heaven.
25 Men ate the bread of angels;
he sent them all the food they could eat.
26 He let loose the east wind from the heavens
and led forth the south wind by his power.
27 He rained meat down on them like dust,
flying birds like sand on the seashore.
28 He made them come down inside their camp,
all around their tents.
29 They ate till they had more than enough,
for he had given them what they craved.journey, in context, it is clear that the manna (bread of angels) is no more metaphorical than the flying birds God also provided. This psalm tells about the people's appetite for REAL food, and how God provided this REAL food for them. It is not about the Israelites hungering for God's word. It is about disobedient scoffers who were literally hungry and thirsty for literal food and water.
Think it out. If the manna in that psalm was metaphorical for God's word, then what did the flying birds represent?
Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2012,01:41) Don't even trust me, but let God teach you.
And what makes you think it WASN'T God who led me to adjust my erroneous first understanding?Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2012,01:41) I gave you scriptures, to guide you, but you don't address them?
I have discussed 1 Corinthians 15 backwards and forwards for about 600 pages of posts in my “Do spirits have bodies?” thread. I am well aware of Paul's teachings in that passage. But I am also well aware that the vast majority of Paul's teachings were directed at the ELECT. He would say things like, “Brothers, WE will be like the angels”, or whatever, in a way that ASSUMED that all who were hearing him or reading his letters WERE members of the ELECT. But obviously, there will be many exceptions, since not EVERYONE who ever heard Paul or read his letters is a member of the ELECT, right?I believe the teaching in 1 Cor is the same. It starts with a question: With what kind of body will the dead be raised? Now obviously, those who are raised just to go off to everlasting destruction will not be clothed with IMMORTALITY, right? So Paul's teaching in 1 Cor 15 reflects how the ELECT, who will dwell in heaven, will be raised.
Jesus is not part of the ELECT – for he preceded them. Nor is there any foreseeable reason for any of t
he elect to be raised in the flesh body they died in, just to be transformed into a spiritual body. Jesus was an exception, because there WAS a reason for him to first come back in the body in which he died. (Notice that Paul says the body that is sown is perishable – yet the body of Jesus was not allowed to see decay like all the perishable bodies of those who will follow him. See? Another exception to the rule. Paul also says that not all will sleep, but all will be changed- which is yet another exception to his general rule for the raised bodies of the elect.)journey, I enjoy your posts and the points you make. I just don't like doing the “answer 20 points in one post” thing anymore. If you have issues with the things I've said in this post (which I'm sure you will
), let's discuss these points one at a time, okay?peace and love,
mikeQuote (david @ Nov. 04 2012,16:15) What does one do when there is one scripture that seems to point in favour of one idea, and many other scriptures that seem to point in the other direction?
David,This is more a case of one scripture that SPECIFICALLY and EXPLICITELY teaches a certain thing, as compared to many other scriptures that can easily be understood many different ways.
Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 06 2012,01:56) Quote So how does an angel commit sexual immorality with humans. Does the idea of them taking a physical body explain it? Yes, taking on a physical body makes perfect sense to me.
I think it hits the nail on the head!
Can we touch or see air? NO. Is it made up of what we know to be PHYSICAL elements? YES.So whose to say that bodies made of spirit are not physical – perhaps just made of elements that we can't see, can't touch, and don't know anything about?
t8 and journey, do you think angels materialized FLESH bodies like humans have?
Quote (david @ Nov. 04 2012,21:46) My first statement: The Puzzle: Why would Jesus’ disciples who were standing in front of him ever have to ask Jesus: “Who are you”?
“Not one of the disciples had the courage to inquire of him: “Who are you?” because they knew it was the Lord.” (John 21:12)If they actually “KNEW” it was The Lord, if they actually knew who it was, why, oh why, would they have any reason to ever ask the question: “who…are….you?
(Rather than ignore this question and focus on why this whole thread is wrong, can someone please attempt to discuss this question)?
David,They eventually recognized it was Jesus, but knowing Jesus was “dead and gone”, they didn't want to be chastized by their Lord (just in case it was really him) by asking, “Who are you sir, because you remind us of Jesus, but we know he died”.
They KIND OF knew it was the Lord, but were understandably confused as to how exactly the Lord, who they knew was dead and gone, could be sitting there alive.
Does that make sense? I could come up with an analogy if needed.
At any rate, I don't think this scripture makes a point for either side of this discussion. If it does, I'm not seeing it yet.
david
Quote –if you were there, terr, why would you have to ask that question in e first place? Sure, you might be freaked out by seeing him. But, why would you have to ask: WHO ARE YOU? JN 21:12 Jesus *said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” None of the disciples ventured to question Him, “Who are You?” knowing that it was the Lord.
Jn 21:5 He called out to them, “Friends, haven’t you any fish?”
“No,” they answered.
Jn 21:6 He said, “Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some.” When they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of fish.
Jn 21:7 Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” As soon as Simon Peter heard him say, “It is the Lord,” he wrapped his outer garment around him (for he had taken it off) and jumped into the water.it is more obvious here that Christ would have appeared in a different looks ,but because of the miracle they knew it was him ,it seems that their new teaching from Christ was to recognize him in words and action and not only by an face ,
this would explain this words ;Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
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