- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Some problems with the view that Jesus wasn’t the Word that was with God in the beginning.
We know that God created all things through his Word. But it is also written that he made all things through his son.
Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.There seems to be a direct link with the Word and the Son in the above verse. Or did God make all things through his Word as well as the Son?
If there was a time when there was only God and his Word, then know that we are taught that Jesus is the first-born of all creation and that God made the universe through him.
Jesus is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God according to Revelation 19:13. It seems that God making all things through his Word, through his Son, and even through Wisdom, either means that these are all different, thus God invoked a number of things to create the Universe, or they are one and the same, i.e., Jesus Christ before he was called Jesus. Christ
W are also told that the Word became flesh and that is an obvious reference to Jesus Christ in a passage of scripture about the origins of Jesus Christ. So this either means that Jesus was newly created from the Word or that he is the Word but took on another form, that of flesh. The latter seems more likely given that God created all things through the Son and the Word and that he is even called the ‘Word of God’.
Even if there is no direct evidence for either view, Jesus being the Word that was with God seems to fit all the verses better.
Then there are those verses that speak of Jesus existence before he came as a man (outside of any mention to the Word).
- “Before Abraham, I am”,
- “to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”
- He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
- etc.
Finally, we are told to not trust in the flesh, so if Jesus is only flesh, then should be trust him and we are explicitly taught that we are cursed if we trust in man. When we trust Jesus, are we trusting in man or the Word of God?
Jeremiah 17:5
This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD.Edj
Mt 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
so what as this to do with me being wrong in Col 1;15-21 ?
could you show me where I turned left when I should have stayed on line in the truth ?
Hi Pierre,
That happened when you decided to get your authoritative information about God from corrupted sources.
Edj
Mt 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
so what as this to do with me being wrong in Col 1;15-21 ?
Hi Pierre,
Matthew 17:21 is missing from many bibles sold today.
If you use corrupted bibles you will draw corrupted conclusions.Hi Pierre,
Col. 1:12-21 is about Jesus’ preeminence, it is NOT
a secret message that is saying that Jesus was created first.
If you choose to believe differently it does not change my life one bit.Don’t think I’m trying to change your mind, I’m simply stating the fact of the matter.
_______________
God bless
Ed Jt8,
We know that God created all things through his Word. But it is also written that he made all things through his son.
Jesus Christ is the word that comes out of God’s mouth which has been given the characteristic of humanity. The word existed before Jesus was made of a woman made under the Law as can be seen by the words of Genesis 1. Jesus was later conceived of the Seed of David, as of his flesh.
Look at John 1:1 and every characteristic he described of the word is true of the word that comes out of God’ mouth. It is also Jesus because he is the word that became flesh.
It is much what the non-believing Jews teach about the Christ but they refuse to believe Jesus is the Christ.
On Pentecost Peter not only did not claim Jesus is an angel but he literally called him a human being. (Acts 2:22)
Ed
You made a point that you cannot now prove to me ,and so have been dishonest, for you told me I miss understand those scriptures when I did not ,
Now you are telling me what I supposed to understand but this is your opinion not from scriptures, for Paul seem very convinced of what he said why are you not believe him ?
Ed,
Hi Kerwin,
How can you say this and then not conclude Jesus is God?
please explain ???
It is absurd to believe Jesus is God because God cannot be tempted by evil and Jesus was tempted even as we are. Both are in Scripture and Scripture is not broken and Trinitarian song and dance is so much nonsense that the more honest ones claim their teaching cannot be tested using logical reasoning.
Besides, Scripture tells us Jesus is a human being in at least two places and assumes we can figure it out in many more.
It is not literally written that Jesus is or ever was a creature composed of spirit.
Hi Kerwin,
How can you say this and then not conclude Jesus is God?
please explain ???
It is absurd to believe Jesus is God because God cannot be tempted by evil and Jesus was tempted even as we are. Both are in Scripture and Scripture is not broken and Trinitarian song and dance is so much nonsense that the more honest ones claim their teaching cannot be tested using logical reasoning.
Besides, Scripture tells us Jesus is a human being in at least two places and assumes we can figure it out in many more.
Hi Kerwin,
I didn’t ask you: “Why do you not believe Jesus is God?” – which seems to be what you are answering.
Instead what I actually asked was: “How can you say:
‘It is not literally written that Jesus is or ever was a creature composed of spirit'”That is what I would like you to answer, not “Why do you not believe Jesus is God?”
You do understand my question now, right?
Edj
(2)what now ? (1)where are your ?
Hi Pierre,
(1)I’m right here. (2)Explain your last post to me
Ed
You made a point that you cannot now prove to me ,and so have been dishonest, for you told me I miss understand those scriptures when I did not ,
Now you are telling me what I supposed to understand but this is your opinion not from scriptures, for Paul seem very convinced of what he said why are you not believe him ?
Can you please tell me what you are talking about ???
Edj
Hi Pierre,
That happened when you decided to get your authoritative information about God from corrupted sources.well you seem to tell me that i get my understanding from corrupted sources but never could detail it so this his one of your lies
Ed.
I happen to know it is not literally written that Jesus is either an angel or a being created of Spirit. Those that believe it are convinced it is both or either inferred or/and implied by certain passages of Scripture.
From what I know there was not teaching that the Christ was either and angel or a spirit-being though the words of Hebrews are addressed to those who believed in the false teaching that the Christ was an angel. Hebrews should put to rest the claim Jesus is and angel or spirit being.
Jesus is a Spiritual human, his body is Spiritual though composed of flesh and bone just as is literally written in Scripture.
Edj
Hi Pierre,
Col. 1:12-21 is about Jesus’ preeminence, it is NOT
a secret message that is saying that Jesus was created first.
If you choose to believe differently it does not change my life one bit.Don’t think I’m trying to change your mind, I’m simply stating the fact of the matter.
no those scriptures give the curriculum vitae of Jesus since his creation and until after all is fulfilled (as per all the letters of Paul )
but you can believe what you want ;I am not the one that will stop you ,you want to see what is not there hey you are in title to your opinion ,but I stick to the scriptures ,and I have many bible and many programs to test all spirits if they are of God or not ,i have been doing this for over 55 years ,
Kerwin…..I ALSO BELIEVE JESUS IS A PHYSICAL HUMAN BEING ALWAYS WAS AND STILL IS, I BELIEVE HE IS EXACTLY AS HE WAS RESURECTED FROM THE GRAVE, AND IS THAT WAY TO THIS VERY DAY, AND WILL RETURN TO THIS EARTH THE SAME WAY HE LEFT IT. HE IS A SPRITUAL MAN , WHO HAS A SUSTAIBED SPRITUAL BODY, OF FLESH ND BONE, exactly like we will have at the resurection or bechanged into at his comming. He ne er preexisted his berth onthis earth either. I think we both agree on this. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
Gene,
I am convinced that Jesus is a human being conceived in the womb of a woman just like all of humanity with less than a handful of exceptions at this time. (Matthew 1:20)
Like with other human beings Jesus was a human until the day he died. (Acts 2:22)He is currently a human being in heaven.(1 Timothy 2:5)
I am convinced because Scripture literally states these things. They are not hard to understand teachings that rely on making a case for them or requiring to be revealed through careful reasoning. They are straightforward passages.
If they do not believed these things in Scripture then why would they believe me when I say the same thing?
kw
People make subconscious decisions that they are not aware of. It cushions them from things they find hard to deal with so they can consciously function while subconscious trying to resolve the issue. Some will be unable to resolve it. In other cases just is not important to them.
are you stating that the conscious and the subconscious are two different persons ?
I believe that you can pick and believe anything you want to believe and that your inside gut tells you that you are wrong but you kill this voice by doing the wrong things any way
Terrarica,
A human is one person with the ability to deceive themselves. A human thinks on different levels, some of which he or she is not aware of.
kw
no ,i believe we are aware of it ,we just kill it and don’t want to see /ear/nor known that it his there for some reason known to us
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
