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And what word should it be in 1 Cor 8:6?
All things came FROM God and (blank) Jesus. Through? For? In?
What is YOUR choice Gene?
MIke………. MIke right and because there are choices that should alone show you you could be wrong, now go to the scripture i quoted in Isa 44 :24 and see if there are any of those choices and if not why not just believe those scriptures that are clear saying GOD created everything “ALONE AND BY HIMSELF”. Mike there is no creator but God alone and by himself why do you trinitarians and preexistences try so hard to steal the Glory that belongs to GOD alone and himself and give it to Jesus , when Jesus said himself he could do nothing of himself. Never did Jesus ever say he was at the creation of anything before he came into existence after his berth on this on this earth through Mary. If he did then produce your proof, Actually i would say the words you should choose there is FOR or BECAUSE OF in 1 Cor 8:6. all thing created were for the Purpose of what Jesus came to be a New creation of GOD and this was the intent of GOD from the very beginning of his physical creation on this earth it is all for that purpose IMO> You simply have bought into the great LIE taught and started by the Gnostic's , then trinitarians who also are Preexistences just like you are. Your work of separation will only work to separate yourself from Jesus' Identity, You have moved Jesus away from your own identity as one of mankind, and will recieve your work in the end unless repented of IMO>
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 15 2011,07:52)
Actually i would say the words you should choose there is FOR or BECAUSE OF in 1 Cor 8:6.
So then God created everything FOR Jesus? “Everything” would include the things that came before Jesus was born of a virgin, right? So, how about dinosaurs? Did God create dinosaurs FOR Jesus? In what way? If Jesus wasn't even around to appreciate the dinosaurs while they existed, how could they have been created FOR him?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 15 2011,07:52)
now go to the scripture i quoted in Isa 44 :24 and see if there are any of those choices and if not why not just believe those scriptures that are clear saying GOD created everything “ALONE AND BY HIMSELF”.
The only contradiction is in your own mind, Gene. God created YOU alone, but still did that THROUGH your parents.Who you you suppose God was saying this to: “Let US create man in OUR image”?
Gene, he who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another. T8 alone created HeavenNet, but he did that THROUGH others – such as Ikonboard, the Internet, etc.
There is NO contradiction in the fact that God ALONE created everything and the fact that He chose to do that THROUGH His Son.
Mike………T8 Had to do it that way because He is Not GOD the creator of all thing who Jesus said “ALL THINGS WERE POSSIBLE FOR HIM” You now limit GOD to the level of Man. Making Him Like a Man , that is a Joke at best . But then again it does shown us how far you will go to support you dogmas.
Mike why have you not answered the Isa 44:24 scriptures i quoted Why is that Mike? Is it because it flies in the face of all your false teachings of GOD who has to do his creation “THROUGH” another?.
As Far as the dinosaur thing goes that has nothing to do with the creation of God at the Beginning of Genesis , and Mans creation, that was a completely different age or eion.
peace and love…………………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 16 2011,09:32) As Far as the dinosaur thing goes that has nothing to do with the creation of God at the Beginning of Genesis , and Mans creation, that was a completely different age or eion.
But dinosaurs, if in fact created by God, would be INCLUDED in the “all things” that God created “for” Jesus, right?How could they have been created by God FOR someone who didn't even exist until they were extinct? In what way were dinosaurs created FOR Jesus, Gene?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2011,14:35) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 16 2011,09:32) As Far as the dinosaur thing goes that has nothing to do with the creation of God at the Beginning of Genesis , and Mans creation, that was a completely different age or eion.
But dinosaurs, if in fact created by God, would be INCLUDED in the “all things” that God created “for” Jesus, right?How could they have been created by God FOR someone who didn't even exist until they were extinct? In what way were dinosaurs created FOR Jesus, Gene?
Mikegene as a different time line in creation than anyone else ,and some things are not included he was there he knows
Pierre,
Job 38
1 Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:
2 “Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?8 “Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,
9 when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,
10 when I fixed limits for it
and set its doors and bars in place,
11 when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;
here is where your proud waves halt’?12 “Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.
15 The wicked are denied their light,
and their upraised arm is broken.16 “Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea
or walked in the recesses of the deep?
17 Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?
18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you know all this.19 “What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?
20 Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
21 Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived so many years!Maybe this was written about Gene?
Mike…………You and your ignorant Co-Hart need only produce ONE Scripture that Shows Jesus was there that is all Just ONE. Surely you two can put your heads together and come up with at leas ONE right? If you understood Genesis correctly you would see that the earth Became Tohu and Bohu now go and figure that out if you can. Another thing Mike If Jesus said he told His disciples all thing he recieved from the Father why did he neglect to tell them all about the creation seen he was Part of it and was there according to you preexistences, did he simply have a memory laps or what?
peace and love………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 17 2011,02:32) Mike………T8 Had to do it that way because He is Not GOD the creator of all thing who Jesus said “ALL THINGS WERE POSSIBLE FOR HIM” You now limit GOD to the level of Man. Making Him Like a Man , that is a Joke at best . But then again it does shown us how far you will go to support you dogmas. Mike why have you not answered the Isa 44:24 scriptures i quoted Why is that Mike? Is it because it flies in the face of all your false teachings of GOD who has to do his creation “THROUGH” another?.
As Far as the dinosaur thing goes that has nothing to do with the creation of God at the Beginning of Genesis , and Mans creation, that was a completely different age or eion.
peace and love…………………………………………….gene
Gene, You need another tile……accusation of a member should never take place….IreneQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 17 2011,06:33) Mike…………You and your ignorant Co-Hart need only produce ONE Scripture that Shows Jesus was there that is all Just ONE.
Gene,All I'm asking is HOW, if Jesus WASN'T there, could the dinosaurs have been created FOR him? In what way did God create the dinosaurs FOR someone who wasn't even around until they were all extinct?
Do you have an answer?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 18 2011,18:26) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 17 2011,06:33) Mike…………You and your ignorant Co-Hart need only produce ONE Scripture that Shows Jesus was there that is all Just ONE.
Gene,All I'm asking is HOW, if Jesus WASN'T there, could the dinosaurs have been created FOR him? In what way did God create the dinosaurs FOR someone who wasn't even around until they were all extinct?
Do you have an answer?
MikeQuote Do you have an answer? These threads would be funny if it weren't for the fact that they're so utterly pathetic! How hard is it to understand from John 1:1 and 14 that “Jesus” (still don't like to use that name as it's misleading) and the Word are one and the same?!? Look at Isaiah 55:8-12 (KJV), “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”
I have said several times now that due to the inadequacy of human understanding and the limitations of human language, it is often difficult to clearly define many Biblical doctrines. Therefore, “Jesus” is the Word only in that God took his attribute, the Word, physically separated it from himself, and caused it to become a human man that Mary was told to name “Jesus.” Prior to that incident there was no “Jesus” or Christ, other than the idea of them in the mind of God. Prior to the incarnation of the Word there was no difference between God and his Word whatsoever, just as there is no tangible difference between me and my hand. “Jesus” was and is a man, no more nor less (except perfect by virtue of being created out of the stuff that is God) and could not and did not do any works, miracles or whatever, until after being indwelt by the Holy Spirit at his baptism by John, the Gospel of Thomas notwithstanding. That being said, for the Bible writers to declare that things were done by “Jesus” that elsewhere are attributed to the Word, does not mean that “Jesus” preexisted the incarnation of the Word. “Jesus” and the Word are one and the same therefore anything that was done by, with, through, for, etc., etc. the Word can be said to have been done by “Jesus” because in reality, they were, but not as a conscious, self-willed entity! Were I to create a beautiful painting with my right hand and were it possible for me to detach said hand and cause it to become a human being named Ralph, it could then properly be said that I, my hand and Ralph created the painting, because in effect we all did, just not at the same time. Consider a carpenter: he needs to drive a nail into a board, but he cannot do so without utilizing a tool (a hammer), now once the nail is driven, who drove it, the carpenter or the hammer? BOTH! However, it was the carpenter who supplied the impetus and the power, without which the hammer could have done nothing. So is it with God and “Jesus;” God is the carpenter, “Jesus” is the hammer (but in this scenario, the hammer was made from a part of the carpenter). Just because the Word ceased to be after the incarnation because now it is the man “Jesus,” it does not negate anything that was done prior to the incarnation, nor must it be qualified who and/or what the Word, and later “Jesus” were or are. They are and always have been one and the same thing, but in time, their condition was different at different stages. Why is this so terribly difficult to apprehend?
Quote (rebellman @ Oct. 21 2011,19:04) Prior to the incarnation of the Word there was no difference between God and his Word whatsoever, just as there is no tangible difference between me and my hand.
Hmmmm…………….In the beginning was the Hand, and the Hand was WITH Rebel, and the Hand WAS Rebel.
Something that is a PART OF a particular being can't also be said to be WITH that particular being.
Your hand is not WITH you, because it is a PART OF you. Similarly, if the Word was a PART OF God, it would never have been said to be WITH God.
John 1:1 clearly speaks of TWO, one of which was WITH the other. And only one of those was referred to as “THE theos”, with the definite article.
But this thread is about John 1:3, Col 1:16, and 1 Cor 8:6 – all of which say that all things were created THROUGH, respectively, the Word, God's Son, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
And since all things were equally said to have been created through all three of these people – AND NOBODY ELSE – then all three of these people must be the same person.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2011,02:28) Quote (rebellman @ Oct. 21 2011,19:04) Prior to the incarnation of the Word there was no difference between God and his Word whatsoever, just as there is no tangible difference between me and my hand.
Hmmmm…………….In the beginning was the Hand, and the Hand was WITH Rebel, and the Hand WAS Rebel.
Something that is a PART OF a particular being can't also be said to be WITH that particular being.
Your hand is not WITH you, because it is a PART OF you. Similarly, if the Word was a PART OF God, it would never have been said to be WITH God.
John 1:1 clearly speaks of TWO, one of which was WITH the other. And only one of those was referred to as “THE theos”, with the definite article.
But this thread is about John 1:3, Col 1:16, and 1 Cor 8:6 – all of which say that all things were created THROUGH, respectively, the Word, God's Son, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
And since all things were equally said to have been created through all three of these people – AND NOBODY ELSE – then all three of these people must be the same person.
mike
Hi Mike! I got on here by going through the History of Firefox….. Don't know if it will let me do so again…. What server is HN using now…Can you send me a personal message, to tell me….It will go to our e-mail address….Thank you….Mike, forget what I said…. I just got back on the old way…. hopefully that stays that way….
Peace IreneQuote
These threads would be funny if it weren't for the fact that they're so utterly pathetic! How hard is it to understand from John 1:1 and 14 that “Jesus” (still don't like to use that name as it's misleading) and the Word are one and the same?!?Maybe you need to reconsider your understanding of who The Word of God is…..
Who is the only begotten of the Father….The Word of God who is called by the title God like His Father is in the beginning with God…1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
There are TWO BEINGS AND NOT JUST ONE
Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
And that Word of God who is the only begotten of the FATHER, became flesh….Now look at these Scriptures
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Is there any other being that fits this description, but Jesus?
God, The Word of God, KING OF LORD, lord are all titles…. Both Jesus and Almighty God have other names…Peace Irene
Hi Irene,
I think t8 located the problem and fixed it. I hope I will be able to get back on tomorrow.
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