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Quote (abe @ Mar. 02 2013,14:01) Is the Spirit of God part of Jesus? Please Yes or No??
No. Jesus was filled WITH the Holy Spirit. God GAVE him the Spirit without measure. If the Spirit of God was a “part of” Jesus, neither of those things could be said about him.Quote (abe @ Mar. 02 2013,14:01) 4. Jesus Christ/The Word was created as the first of God's works, before the ages. The Holy Spirit was not created. You say; The Holy Spirit is God?
I say what the scriptures say: The Holy Spirit is OF God….. just as our own spirits are OF us.And just like we can be filled with God's Holy Spirit, without that Spirit being a “part of” us, so can Jesus.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 02 2013,14:28) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2013,06:47) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 02 2013,08:55) Who spoke Mike through Jesus and the Prophets?, God Spoke (words) His words Mike through Jesus and the Prophets.
Was it God who spoke through Jesus, Gene? Or was it the “Holy Spirit Son of God” who spoke through the flesh Son of God, like Kerwin and 2B are claiming?
Mike……… Is God a SPIRIT ?, Was God “IN” Jesus reconciling the world unto himself.
Yes Gene,I agree with the scriptures that say God was in Jesus. I agree with the scriptures that say God spoke through Jesus.
I say these things as clear as I can in the hope that you will NEVER again try to imply that I DON'T believe them.
Now, that long post you made didn't even address the one little thing I wanted you to address. Here it is again, Gene:
Do you believe it was GOD who was in Jesus? Or do you believe, like Kerwin and 2B, that it was the “Holy Spirit Son of God” who was in Jesus?
Which one, please?
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 02 2013,14:58) Hi Mike, You believe that Jesus meant that He would be with them for 40 days, however, that is not what the scripture says.
“And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you FOREVR.” Not for 40 days, but for-ever.
Matthew 28:20
And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.John 14:18
I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.These scriptures say Jesus will come to them and be with them to the very end of the age.
2B and Gene have both posted that they realize Jesus will be coming back. And isn't that the point I made to Abe – that BOTH of them would come?
So where is the argument?
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 02 2013,14:58) 26But THE HELPER, THE HOLY SPIRIT, WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME, HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS AND BRING TO YOUR REMEMBERANCE ALL THAT I HAVE SAID TO YOU.
Who said those words, 2B?Was it the Father speaking through Jesus of Nazareth?
Was it the “Holy Spirit Son of God” speaking through Jesus of Nazareth?
Or was it actually Jesus of Nazareth who said those words?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2013,16:27) Quote (abe @ Mar. 02 2013,14:01) Is the Spirit of God part of Jesus? Please Yes or No??
No. Jesus was filled WITH the Holy Spirit. God GAVE him the Spirit without measure. If the Spirit of God was a “part of” Jesus, neither of those things could be said about him.Quote (abe @ Mar. 02 2013,14:01) 4. Jesus Christ/The Word was created as the first of God's works, before the ages. The Holy Spirit was not created. You say; The Holy Spirit is God?
I say what the scriptures say: The Holy Spirit is OF God….. just as our own spirits are OF us.And just like we can be filled with God's Holy Spirit, without that Spirit being a “part of” us, so can Jesus.
Hi Mike,Rom.8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Can you explain this verse?
Peace brother.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2013,11:35) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 02 2013,14:28) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2013,06:47) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 02 2013,08:55) Who spoke Mike through Jesus and the Prophets?, God Spoke (words) His words Mike through Jesus and the Prophets.
Was it God who spoke through Jesus, Gene? Or was it the “Holy Spirit Son of God” who spoke through the flesh Son of God, like Kerwin and 2B are claiming?
Mike……… Is God a SPIRIT ?, Was God “IN” Jesus reconciling the world unto himself.
Yes Gene,I agree with the scriptures that say God was in Jesus. I agree with the scriptures that say God spoke through Jesus.
I say these things as clear as I can in the hope that you will NEVER again try to imply that I DON'T believe them.
Now, that long post you made didn't even address the one little thing I wanted you to address. Here it is again, Gene:
Do you believe it was GOD who was in Jesus? Or do you believe, like Kerwin and 2B, that it was the “Holy Spirit Son of God” who was in Jesus?
Which one, please?
Mike…….Can't you understand it is the “HOLY SPIRIT” that makes us Son of GOD , do you thinkit is any different with the Man Jesus? That is what Kerwin and 2besee are saying and there Point is right , it is God Seed or (holy Spiirt) that makes a man his child who is called a Son of GOD. Just as the seed of (Ha-Satan's) Spirit makes men the childern of the devil.2besee and Kerwin are both right , You brother Mike are wrong IMO> Now does that answer you question?
You say out of one side of your Mouth Jesus is a God , and the other side GOd was in Him , so now who was the Light was it Jesus the man or the HOLY SPIRIT that was in the man Jesus and in all saints of GOD> And if you believe GOD was truley “IN” Jesus what was He doing “IN” Jesus , tell us was he speaking His Own thoughts by his Spirit to Him, or was Jesus as a “little God speaking “HIS own thoughts and words to us. Which one was it Mike it can't be both now can it?
You on the one hand agree and on the other disagree , you are kinda bouble minded on this Mike.
You say God created every thing “through” a Preexisting Jesus and we have shown you over and over, where God said He did it all alone and by Himself, Youwould think that alone would make you question the word “THROUGH”, and we have Scriptures where God who is not a man said He gives His glory to no man but you say the Word mentioned in John 1.1 was Jesus and even add the word “He” was with God, instead of “IT” (the word) was with God meaning God and his word were one and the same thing.
WE have shown you where God Spoke things into existence over and over but you still believe he did it “through” a preexistent being which no scripture mention as this “beign” there anywhere .
I tell you as a brother MIke you have it all screwed up you have been infected with the False teachings of the trinitarians and other Preexistences as the JW'S who also believe Jesus preexisted as Michieal the Arch Angel.
Walk away from these false teaching and the Light of truth may shine on you and you can become a defender of the true Faith which was once and for all deliever unto the saint of the Most High. I love you brother but you have to dump that garbage your hanging on to and start afresh. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 03 2013,09:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2013,11:35)
Do you believe it was GOD who was in Jesus? Or do you believe, like Kerwin and 2B, that it was the “Holy Spirit Son of God” who was in Jesus?Which one, please?
2besee and Kerwin are both right , You brother Mike are wrong IMO> Now does that answer you question?
No Gene, it doesn't.The answer I'm looking for is:
1. It was God who was in Jesus.
2. It was the Holy Spirit Son of God who was in Jesus.
Please answer the question DIRECTLY this time.
Quote (abe @ Mar. 02 2013,21:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2013,16:27) Quote (abe @ Mar. 02 2013,14:01) Is the Spirit of God part of Jesus? Please Yes or No??
No. Jesus was filled WITH the Holy Spirit. God GAVE him the Spirit without measure. If the Spirit of God was a “part of” Jesus, neither of those things could be said about him.Quote (abe @ Mar. 02 2013,14:01) 4. Jesus Christ/The Word was created as the first of God's works, before the ages. The Holy Spirit was not created. You say; The Holy Spirit is God?
I say what the scriptures say: The Holy Spirit is OF God….. just as our own spirits are OF us.And just like we can be filled with God's Holy Spirit, without that Spirit being a “part of” us, so can Jesus.
Hi Mike,Rom.8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Can you explain this verse?
Peace brother.
Hi Abe,That scripture means that if we live our lives according to the Spirit, then it is AS IF we are no longer flesh, because we are no longer living our lives according to the sinful desires of the flesh.
We are able to live like this if we have the Spirit of God dwelling in us – which is a poetic way of saying that God is helping and guiding us via his Spirit.
Also, if we do not live our lives according to the spirit of Christ – which is a poetic way of saying “according to the way Christ demonstrated we should live” – then we do not belong to Christ.
In other words, if we belong to Christ, we should demonstrate this by living as Christ lived, and doing the things he did.
If we belong to God, then we should try to live our lives according to what pleases God. When we do our utmost to live this way, God will help us and guide us through His Spirit.
I noticed you didn't refute the previous answers I posted.
Kerwin,
Were you ever going to answer the Kerwin's Hotel Saga question for me? How about you 2B? So far, only Gene and I have answered it.
Here is the gist of it:
If Kerwin tells the front dest clerk that he wants the room HE HAD last year, is he talking about:
A. The room HE HAD last year?
B. The room the hotel had been holding for him since last year?Which one do the words “HE HAD” imply?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2013,18:24) Quote (abe @ Mar. 02 2013,21:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2013,16:27) Quote (abe @ Mar. 02 2013,14:01) Is the Spirit of God part of Jesus? Please Yes or No??
No. Jesus was filled WITH the Holy Spirit. God GAVE him the Spirit without measure. If the Spirit of God was a “part of” Jesus, neither of those things could be said about him.Quote (abe @ Mar. 02 2013,14:01) 4. Jesus Christ/The Word was created as the first of God's works, before the ages. The Holy Spirit was not created. You say; The Holy Spirit is God?
I say what the scriptures say: The Holy Spirit is OF God….. just as our own spirits are OF us.And just like we can be filled with God's Holy Spirit, without that Spirit being a “part of” us, so can Jesus.
Hi Mike,Rom.8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Can you explain this verse?
Peace brother.
Hi Abe,That scripture means that if we live our lives according to the Spirit, then it is AS IF we are no longer flesh, because we are no longer living our lives according to the sinful desires of the flesh.
We are able to live like this if we have the Spirit of God dwelling in us – which is a poetic way of saying that God is helping and guiding us via his Spirit.
Also, if we do not live our lives according to the spirit of Christ – which is a poetic way of saying “according to the way Christ demonstrated we should live” – then we do not belong to Christ.
In other words, if we belong to Christ, we should demonstrate this by living as Christ lived, and doing the things he did.
If we belong to God, then we should try to live our lives according to what pleases God. When we do our utmost to live this way, God will help us and guide us through His Spirit.
I noticed you didn't refute the previous answers I posted.
Hi Mike,Quote (abe @ Mar. 02 2013,14:01)
4. Jesus Christ/The Word was created as the first of God's works, before the ages. The Holy Spirit was not created.You say; The Holy Spirit is God?
I say what the scriptures say: The Holy Spirit is OF God….. just as our own spirits are OF us.
And just like we can be filled with God's Holy Spirit, without that Spirit being a “part of” us, so can Jesus.
Acts2:33 “Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both SEE and HEAR.
Phl.2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Jn.5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
The Holy Spirit was not created.
No one at any time has seen God. Jn.1:18 Jn.6:46 1Jn.4:12 1Jn.4:20 1Tim.1:17 1Tim.6:16 Col.1:15
Why do you believe the Holy Spirit was not created??
God gave him that Spirit. Marriage Rev.21+22
2Cor.5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, NEW things have come
Peace brother.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2013,13:14) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 03 2013,09:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2013,11:35)
Do you believe it was GOD who was in Jesus? Or do you believe, like Kerwin and 2B, that it was the “Holy Spirit Son of God” who was in Jesus?Which one, please?
2besee and Kerwin are both right , You brother Mike are wrong IMO> Now does that answer you question?
No Gene, it doesn't.The answer I'm looking for is:
1. It was God who was in Jesus.
2. It was the Holy Spirit Son of God who was in Jesus.
Please answer the question DIRECTLY this time.
MIKE…….GOD AND HIS SPIRIT ARE ONE, JUST AS YOU AND YOURS SPIRIT ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING. When it tells us to try the Spirit to see if they are of God ,what are you trying if not the Persons own Spirit how by his own words.Mike God and His spirit Just like his words are one and the same thing. if the Spirit that raised Christ Jesus from the Grave be in you It shall also quicken you mortal body Get it it is the same Spirit of God which is God , or why do you think it says that God maybe All and in you all
Mike like i told over and over you simply do not understand what a Spirit is , you keep looking at a Spirit like a flesh human being , it is not a flesh person, spirit and flesh are different thing , Spirits are what is “IN” Flesh beings.
To be a Son of God you must have God Spirit “IN” you are you simply are not one of His, Just that simple and if you are one of His by virtue of his sprite then you are a Son of God even Now. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2013,08:27) Kerwin, Were you ever going to answer the Kerwin's Hotel Saga question for me? How about you 2B? So far, only Gene and I have answered it.
Here is the gist of it:
If Kerwin tells the front dest clerk that he wants the room HE HAD last year, is he talking about:
A. The room HE HAD last year?
B. The room the hotel had been holding for him since last year?Which one do the words “HE HAD” imply?
Mike,Had and kept are synonyms in English as well as in Ancient Greek. That is where I believe our differences lie and the hotel example does not change that.
Quote (abe @ Mar. 03 2013,21:49) Why do you believe the Holy Spirit was not created?
The Holy Spirit of God is also called “the finger of God”. How can God be from everlasting, but at some point He CREATED one of His fingers?
The Holy Spirit is a part of God, not a creation of God.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 04 2013,09:00) MIKE…….GOD AND HIS SPIRIT ARE ONE, JUSTY AS YOU AND YOURS SPIRIT ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING.
My spirit is OF me, Gene. The being of “Mike” consists of a spirit, soul, and a body. All of these things make up “Mike”. You can't say “the spirit OF Mike IS Mike”, because you are leaving other things that Mike also consists of out of the picture.Gene, don't make me put you on the Hot Seat with this question. I want a DIRECT answer to a VERY SIMPLE question. I shouldn't have to ask the same thing over and over again just to get an answer.
Gene, do you believe there exists such a thing as “the Holy Spirit Son of God”?
Ie: Do you believe that God's Holy Spirit is His SON?
YES or NO?
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 04 2013,19:17) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2013,08:27) Kerwin, Were you ever going to answer the Kerwin's Hotel Saga question for me? How about you 2B? So far, only Gene and I have answered it.
Here is the gist of it:
If Kerwin tells the front dest clerk that he wants the room HE HAD last year, is he talking about:
A. The room HE HAD last year?
B. The room the hotel had been holding for him since last year?Which one do the words “HE HAD” imply?
Mike,Had and kept are synonyms in English as well as in Ancient Greek. That is where I believe our differences lie and the hotel example does not change that.
Answer “A” or “B”, Kerwin.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2013,17:25) Quote (abe @ Mar. 03 2013,21:49) Why do you believe the Holy Spirit was not created?
The Holy Spirit of God is also called “the finger of God”. How can God be from everlasting, but at some point He CREATED one of His fingers?The Holy Spirit is a part of God, not a creation of God.
Hi Mike,Acts2:33 “Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both SEE and HEAR.
Phl.2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a NAME which is above every NAME:
( The Holy Spirit of God is also called “the finger of God”.)
Could you please EXPLAIN this??
No one has seen God at any Time.
Peace brother….
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2013,07:32) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 04 2013,19:17) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2013,08:27) Kerwin, Were you ever going to answer the Kerwin's Hotel Saga question for me? How about you 2B? So far, only Gene and I have answered it.
Here is the gist of it:
If Kerwin tells the front dest clerk that he wants the room HE HAD last year, is he talking about:
A. The room HE HAD last year?
B. The room the hotel had been holding for him since last year?Which one do the words “HE HAD” imply?
Mike,Had and kept are synonyms in English as well as in Ancient Greek. That is where I believe our differences lie and the hotel example does not change that.
Answer “A” or “B”, Kerwin.
Mike,Here is a thesaurus entry for you.
Quote had16 results gripped (verb)
Synonyms:adhered, clasped, clutched, embraced, grappled, grasped, gripped, held, kept, retained, seized.
possessed (verb)
Synonyms:acquired, claimed, monopolized, owned, possessed
If we go by what I believe Jesus was saying the man is asking for the room that he kept/retained with the hotel the year before.
The clerk is going to look at reservations and not at possession. B is the best choice because A is unrealistic.
Here is my source.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2013,12:31) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 04 2013,09:00) MIKE…….GOD AND HIS SPIRIT ARE ONE, JUSTY AS YOU AND YOURS SPIRIT ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING.
My spirit is OF me, Gene. The being of “Mike” consists of a spirit, soul, and a body. All of these things make up “Mike”. You can't say “the spirit OF Mike IS Mike”, because you are leaving other things that Mike also consists of out of the picture.Gene, don't make me put you on the Hot Seat with this question. I want a DIRECT answer to a VERY SIMPLE question. I shouldn't have to ask the same thing over and over again just to get an answer.
Gene, do you believe there exists such a thing as “the Holy Spirit Son of God”?
Ie: Do you believe that God's Holy Spirit is His SON?
YES or NO?
Mike………You have it wrong,,,,,,Your Livimg Soul consits of a body with Spirit “IN” it. Just that simple There is no such thing as “three componets to us , Just two A “body” that when united with Spirit makes up a “LIVING SOUL” nothing more and nothing less. We have been down this road befor MIke.When the Spirit is seperated from the Body we no longer EXIST as a Sentinel Being and will remain that way untill a “Body is remade and Our Spirit is added Back into It. It's just that simple nothiung complex about it. Our spirits we have we recieved from God and He adds to them His Spirit and at that time we have HIs Seed “IN us and we become the Sons of the Living GOD, again nothing complicated about it Mike.
Mike don't threaten me with this Hot seat crap either brother. You are simple trying to do what you do with scripture force us to saywhat ion fact scripture does not say IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Quote (abe @ Mar. 04 2013,22:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2013,17:25) Quote (abe @ Mar. 03 2013,21:49) Why do you believe the Holy Spirit was not created?
The Holy Spirit of God is also called “the finger of God”. How can God be from everlasting, but at some point He CREATED one of His fingers?The Holy Spirit is a part of God, not a creation of God.
Hi Mike,Acts2:33 “Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both SEE and HEAR.
Phl.2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a NAME which is above every NAME:
( The Holy Spirit of God is also called “the finger of God”.)
Could you please EXPLAIN this??
No one has seen God at any Time.
Peace brother….
Hi Abe,No man can see the face of God and live. Moses saw the “presence” or “glory” of God……… but not His face.
Exodus 33
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
That Acts verse you are quoting doesn't even have to do with literally seeing and hearing the Holy Spirit. I has to do with seeing and being told about THE EFFECTS OF the Holy Spirit. For example, many people saw the tongues of fire over the disciples' heads. And many people heard them speaking in languages they didn't previously know.
Paul is saying that the miracles you are seeing, and the gospel you are hearing, is the result of the Holy Spirit being poured out on the believers, IMO.
But there is the case of the Holy Spirit resting on Jesus. At that time, it was seen in “bodily form”, like a dove. But again, the Holy Spirit is not the FACE of God.
As for Phil 2:9, it speaks of Jesus – not the Holy Spirit.
And the scripture about the “finger of God”:
Luke 11:20
But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you.We can know “finger of God” is a euphemism for the “Holy Spirit of God”, because the same event is also quoted in Matthew 12:28……….
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
So can God have existed, and then at some later time CREATED one of His fingers? Or does it make more sense that the finger/spirit of God has always been a part of God?
ewwww Mike,
you just said this to abe:Quote So can God have existed, and then at some later time CREATED one of His fingers? Or does it make more sense that the finger/spirit of God has always been a part of God? Let me insert 'Arm of God' and see if you want to keep your statement as you put it. If so, you just said that this makes sense:
So can God have existed, and then at some later time CREATED one of His arms? Or does it make more sense that the Son/Arm of God has always been a part of God?
John 12
When Jesus had said these things, he departed and hid himself from them. 37Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him, 38so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled:“Lord, who has believed what he heard from us,
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”39Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said,
40 “He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their heart,
lest they see with their eyes,
and understand with their heart, and turn,
and I would heal them.”41Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him. 42Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.
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