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Quote (abe @ Mar. 01 2013,13:58) I WILL COME TO YOU. Two became ONE.
So Jesus couldn't have been saying that he would send the Holy Spirit AND he himself would also come to them?Both are true, right?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2013,16:27) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 27 2013,01:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,14:46) 2B, Was the flesh Son elevated to an even higher position than the original Spirit Son?
Mike I believe I have maybe gone a little off track somewhere……….. how could the one true God's own Spirit be less than the one who is seated at the one true God's right hand side?
Well Jesus (the formerly flesh son) sits at the right hand of God in the highest position available.Where does God's other son, the Holy Spirit, sit?
The Holy Spirit Son is a part of God.
God is one.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2013,09:35) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 27 2013,04:57) The Son is in Jesus and gives its full authority over all things in heaven and earth to him. He even has authority to give the Son to others……………
Have you run that one by Gene yet, Kerwin?
He keeps on reminding us that THE FATHER was in Jesus, doing the works – just like scripture says. I don't believe I've read any scripture that speaks of God's Son being in God's Son.Yet you say one of God's Sons has authority to give the OTHER Son to us?
Hmmmm………………..
Mike,Paul declared the Son is in him.
Jesus is superior to Paul.
Therefore the Son is in him even more.
Scripture states that Jehovah dwells in believers by the Spirit.
Jesus states Jehovah is in him.
Therefore Jehovah is in Jesus though the Son.
The Son makes those that live according to it as well as receive it, sons.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2013,16:31) So keep on thinking it's “silly” for a while longer………… because after I'm done with the “Jesus” comparisons, we're going to do the same verse by verse thing with “the Holy Spirit Son” – and see how many hits and misses we come up with.
Hi mike,
It will be 'all hits', I am sure.Remember…
'How much more will the blood of the Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from dead actions so that we may serve the living God'
An comparison in words could be… Mike, who through the Internet made His post on heavnnet.
That is three things:
Mike
The Internet
Heaven net.Now see the above verse again.
The Lord is the Spirit.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 02 2013,20:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2013,09:35) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 27 2013,04:57) The Son is in Jesus and gives its full authority over all things in heaven and earth to him. He even has authority to give the Son to others……………
Have you run that one by Gene yet, Kerwin? He keeps on reminding us that THE FATHER was in Jesus, doing the works – just like scripture says. I don't believe I've read any scripture that speaks of God's Son being in God's Son.Yet you say one of God's Sons has authority to give the OTHER Son to us?
Hmmmm………………..
Mike,Paul declared the Son is in him.
Jesus is superior to Paul.
Therefore the Son is in him even more.
Scripture states that Jehovah dwells in believers by the Spirit.
Jesus states Jehovah is in him.
Therefore Jehovah is in Jesus though the Son.
The Son makes those that live according to it as well as receive it, sons.
Amen Kerwin.Mike………. No both are not true it was the holy Spirit Jesus sent not himself. When he comes ever one in this world will know it Just as he said. Now In times past God Spoke (words) to us “through' the Prophets,(by the Holy Spirit, has in these last days Spoken (words) to us “through” a son. Who spoke Mike through Jesus and the Prophets?, God Spoke (words) His words Mike through Jesus and the Prophets. God and his Words are one and the Same Mike just as you and your words are one and the same.
Jesus didn't say he himself was coming to them , that was the holy Spirit of God that was “IN” Jesus, that was coming to them, Speaking through Jesus. Remember when Jesus said he would Pray the Father and the Spirit that Abides with them, (being in Jesus), would be sent to be “IN them, also. That is what they received at Pentecost. Your trying to make Jesus “the Man” into a Spirit, yet your have no scripture that says Jesus is a Spirit , in fact Jesus said he was not a Spirit after his resurrection.
Mike it is Just like this remember when Jesus said if you get put on trial ,not to take “thought” or meditate on what we will say , because that very moment it would be given to you what to say, for it will not be “YOU” that Speaks, but the Spirit of your Father “IN” you hearts speaking through you. WHY can't you understand it was that same Spirit that was speaking (Gods Words) to us through Jesus the Christ. If you can understand this why are you having such a hard time applying it to Jesus also.
As i have told you before the religion you preach is a religion of “SEPARATION” which moves Jesus identity away from the rest of Humanity and is completely against what God the Father and Jesus want Brother. It would have made absolutely no difference if God would have taken any human being and fulled him with his Holy Spirit and spoke with him and told him what to do because the outcome would have been exactly the same if that person did what ever God told him to, and many died horrible deaths by remaining Faithfully by that Same Spirit that was “IN “Jesus the Christ.
The only difference between Jesus and us was God whom is Spirit work in creating another Adam the First human “Being” to receive eternal life from the Human race and as being the firstborn from humanity into the Kingdom of God he holds that position in the Family of God now and forever. I do not move Jesus away from me I am one of His many Brothers and sisters, he is my Kinsmen Redeemer IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 01 2013,19:42) Quote (abe @ Mar. 01 2013,13:58) I WILL COME TO YOU. Two became ONE.
So Jesus couldn't have been saying that he would send the Holy Spirit AND he himself would also come to them?Both are true, right?
Hi Mike,I WILL COME TO YOU. I will come to you.
After the marriage they are one. Are they not?
Peace brother.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 02 2013,01:08) Therefore Jehovah is in Jesus though the Son.
What the freak are you rambling on about, Kerwin?
Jesus IS the Son.
Where can I read about this OTHER Son of God being IN Jesus, the Son of God?
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Where is the mention of this OTHER Son of God that we must know?
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 02 2013,00:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2013,16:27) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 27 2013,01:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,14:46) 2B, Was the flesh Son elevated to an even higher position than the original Spirit Son?
Mike I believe I have maybe gone a little off track somewhere……….. how could the one true God's own Spirit be less than the one who is seated at the one true God's right hand side?
Well Jesus (the formerly flesh son) sits at the right hand of God in the highest position available.Where does God's other son, the Holy Spirit, sit?
The Holy Spirit Son is a part of God.
God is one.
So the formerly flesh Son, Jesus Christ, now sits at the right hand of God, who is really a Being comprised of Father and Holy Spirit Son?Kathi, what do you think about this?
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 02 2013,01:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2013,16:31) So keep on thinking it's “silly” for a while longer………… because after I'm done with the “Jesus” comparisons, we're going to do the same verse by verse thing with “the Holy Spirit Son” – and see how many hits and misses we come up with.
Hi mike,
It will be 'all hits', I am sure.Remember…
'How much more will the blood of the Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from dead actions so that we may serve the living God'
An comparison in words could be… Mike, who through the Internet made His post on heavnnet.
That is three things:
Mike
The Internet
Heaven net.Now see the above verse again.
The Lord is the Spirit.
Three things, to be sure. But tell me again where I can read in scripture that one of those things is the “Holy Spirit Son of God”.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 02 2013,08:55) Who spoke Mike through Jesus and the Prophets?, God Spoke (words) His words Mike through Jesus and the Prophets.
Was it God who spoke through Jesus, Gene? Or was it the “Holy Spirit Son of God” who spoke through the flesh Son of God, like Kerwin and 2B are claiming?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 02 2013,08:55) Jesus didn't say he himself was coming to them………
Not only did Jesus of Nazareth say he would return to them, he DID. He visited and strengthened their faith for 40 days after his resurrection.Later, Jesus is the one who came to Paul many times.
Who do you think will return on the clouds with God's angels? Jesus himself? Or the Holy Spirit?
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 02 2013,01:11) Hi mike,
It will be 'all hits', I am sure.
We'll see. I believe most of them will be misses. Right off the top of my head, I can foresee that you will once again have to alter 1:14, and pretend that it says the Word (Holy Spirit Son of God) came to be IN the flesh Son of God.That verse right there will shut your theory down, but I'm confident there will be many others as well.
I'll finish up with the “Jesus” comparisons ASAP, so we can hurry up and find out which one of us is right about the other.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 01 2013,19:19) Quote (abe @ Feb. 26 2013,21:45) Hi Mike, 1. Christ is the Beginning of the creation. (WISDOM)
2. The WORD is another Part of HIM. (WORD)
3. The Spirit of God is another PART of him. (SPIRIT)
4. The different parts were created IN the First DAY or (LIGHT).
5. How did they get separated?
Peace brother…
Hi Abe,1. Yes. Christ is the beginning of God's creation. (Rev 3:14)
3. The Spirit of God is another PART of him. (SPIRIT)
3. I agree that the Spirit of God is a part of God, like an extension of Him.
4. Jesus Christ/The Word was created as the first of God's works, before the ages. The Holy Spirit was not created.
5. Who was separated? The Son of God has always been a different being than God – ever since God created him as the first of His works.
peace.
Hi Mike,3. The Spirit of God is another PART of him. (SPIRIT)
Is the Spirit of God part of Jesus?
Please Yes or No??
4. Jesus Christ/The Word was created as the first of God's works, before the ages. The Holy Spirit was not created.
You say; The Holy Spirit is God?
Peace brother.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2013,06:47) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 02 2013,08:55) Who spoke Mike through Jesus and the Prophets?, God Spoke (words) His words Mike through Jesus and the Prophets.
Was it God who spoke through Jesus, Gene? Or was it the “Holy Spirit Son of God” who spoke through the flesh Son of God, like Kerwin and 2B are claiming?
Mike……… Is God a SPIRIT ?, Was God “IN” Jesus reconciling the world unto himself. Now if you agree God is Spirit then is He HOLY or Not? If you say Yes then was GOD who is Holy Spirit (IN) Jesus not and if He was “IN Jesus what was He doing Mike , Just going along for the ride as you must think, or was He directing Jesus and giving Him His words to speak to Us . Which is It Mike , Jesus doing his own thing or God the Father >IN < Him doing the "Works" and if God who was IN Him was doing the Works How can you say Jesus who was a God or Spirit was doing it himself?Cant you see you quagmire your theology creates
Mike why do you think Jesus is called the Messiah the Anotinted ONE if he was not a “Man” who was “anointed” with Holy Spirit from GOD. Man that should be simple for you to understand . IMO
Mike if you don't believe God Spoke his own words “THROUGH” Jesus, through the eternal spirit “IN him , your not even close to the truth of scriptures or what Jesus Himself said either. Think about it man instead of trying to win an argument all the time Brother.
As i have said befor Mike your Problem is you do not understand what a Sprit “IS” . That alone if your understood it would take all the confusion away from you. God is not a Person but a Spirit and Sprits can come in and out of People, God a Spirit was “IN” Jesus Mike guiding, directing, and yes even at time speaking “FIRST PERSON” through Jesus' Mouth. i have showed you over and over where God was the one Speaking not Jesus even though it came theough Jesus' mouth.
I given you scriptures that Prove it was Possible for that to even happen with US. But you fail to acknowledge them as you have woth Many we have posted to you. Yousimply go alone as if the were not there or was never posted to you at all. So how can any head way be meant with you not acknowledging them. IMO
peace and Love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2013,08:47) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 02 2013,08:55) Who spoke Mike through Jesus and the Prophets?, God Spoke (words) His words Mike through Jesus and the Prophets.
Was it God who spoke through Jesus, Gene? Or was it the “Holy Spirit Son of God” who spoke through the flesh Son of God, like Kerwin and 2B are claiming?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 02 2013,08:55) Jesus didn't say he himself was coming to them………
Not only did Jesus of Nazareth say he would return to them, he DID. He visited and strengthened their faith for 40 days after his resurrection.
Hi Mike,You believe that Jesus meant that He would be with them for 40 days, however, that is not what the scripture says.
“And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you FOREVR.” Not for 40 days, but for-ever.
In context:
John 14.
15“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you FOREVER, 17even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for HE DWELLS WITH YOU AND WILL BE IN YOU…. (Who dwelled with them and would be in them? The Holy Spirit)
18“I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU AS ORPHANS; I WILL COME TO YOU. 19Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20In that day you will know that I AM IN MY FATHER, AND YOU IN ME, AND i IN YOU. 21WHOEVER HAS MY COMMANDMENTS AND KEEPS THEM, HE IT IS WHO LOVES ME. AND HE WHO LOVES ME WILL BE LOVED BY MY FATHER, AND I WILL LOVE HIM AND MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM”. 22Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23Jesus answered him, “IF ANYNOE LOVES ME, HE WILL KEEP MY WORD, AND MY FATHER WILL LOVE HIM, AND WE WILL COME TO HIM AND MAKE OUR HOME WITH HIM….. (How? Read on….)
25“THESE THINGS I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU WHILE I AM STILL WITH YOU. 26But THE HELPER, THE HOLY SPIRIT, WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME, HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS AND BRING TO YOUR REMEMBERANCE ALL THAT I HAVE SAID TO YOU. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. 28You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place you may believe. 30I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me, 31but I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise, let us go from here.
Quote Who do you think will return on the clouds with God's angels? Jesus himself? Or the Holy Spirit? I will let Gene answer, but I'll just say, this is the return of Jesus (still to come).
(2nd Peter chapter 3)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2013,08:28) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 02 2013,01:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 02 2013,16:31) So keep on thinking it's “silly” for a while longer………… because after I'm done with the “Jesus” comparisons, we're going to do the same verse by verse thing with “the Holy Spirit Son” – and see how many hits and misses we come up with.
Hi mike,
It will be 'all hits', I am sure.Remember…
'How much more will the blood of the Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from dead actions so that we may serve the living God'
An comparison in words could be… Mike, who through the Internet made His post on heavnnet.
That is three things:
Mike
The Internet
Heaven net.Now see the above verse again.
The Lord is the Spirit.
Three things, to be sure. But tell me again where I can read in scripture that one of those things is the “Holy Spirit Son of God”.
MIKE,It is no one verse but many verses.
It would take me half a day to go through the scripture and re-post them.
I am supposed to be limiting my time on the computer!
(The computer puts me into “hypertension crisis!” if I stay on it too long.. must be a sign)Mike……..Yes as 2besee said I believe Jesus will return , Just as He said he would to this earth . I do not believe He has already returned in the form of the Holy Spirit , I believe He did Just what He said He would Do, Send the Sprit of Truth which Comforts us into our Hearts crying Abba Father. We are connected with Jesus by that same Sprit that was in Him not one ounce of difference. We are at one with the Fathwr and Jesus by that same Spirit given us, guiding and directing the thoughts of our minds as ask and allow it to, and if we don't do those thing that will grieve the Sprit of God “IN” us. IMO
peace and love to you and your……………………………………………….gene
The italicized words below are things said about “the Word” in John 1. The scriptures listed in parenthesis identify some of the places in scripture where those same exact things are said about Jesus.
1. And the Word was a god: (Is 9:6, Heb 1:8-9, etc.)
2. He was with God in the beginning: (John 17:5)
3. All things were made through him: (Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, Heb 1:2)
4. In him was life, and that life was the light of men: (John 5:26, John 8:12)
5. The light shines in the darkness: (Matthew 4:16; John 3:19; 2 Corinthians 4:6)
6. John the Baptist came as a witness to testify concerning that light: (John 1:29-34; 3:26; 5:32-36)
7. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world: (Isaiah 42:6-7; John 3:19, 9:5, 12:35-36, 46; Luke 1:78-79)
8. Though he was in the world, the world did not recognize him: (Isaiah 53:3, John 4:10, Acts 13:27, John 12:37-38, 1 John 3:1)
9. He came to that which was his own: (Col 1:16; Matt 11:27; John 3:35, 13:3, 16:15; Eph 1:10; Heb 1:2)
10. but his own did not receive him: (Luke 9:53; John 5:43; Acts 13:46)
11. to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God: (Acts 4:12; John 3:14-16; Gal 3:26; Heb 2:10; Eph 1:5)
12. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us: (1 John 1:1-2, 4:2; Phil 2:6-7; Rom 8:3; Gal 4:4-5)
13. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten: (John 1:18, 3:16-18; 1 John 4:9)
Moving on…………………
John 1:14
…..who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.Supporting scriptures:
John 1:16
From the fulness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.Luke 2:40
And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.Romans 1:5
Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.
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