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Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 12 2013,14:29) Because that Spirit is Jehovah's only he is good………. and anyone else that is good is good only because……
What do you mean by “anyone else who is good”? Didn't you just say “only God is good”?This is what I was trying to tell you before, Kerwin. If you say, Jesus is good BECAUSE OF God's Spirit, you are STILL saying “JESUS IS GOOD”. And Jesus can't possibly be good if God is LITERALLY the ONLY good one.
The “because of” part doesn't matter if the end result is “JESUS IS GOOD”. Can't you see this?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 12 2013,12:10) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,17:04) Hi Mike, You said,
Quote (Unless you believe that God the Father actually IS His own “Holy Spirit Son”.) Add it up.
Spirit gives birth to spirit (John 3:6)
God is spirit, the Holy Spirit is spirit.
But you say the Holy Spirit IS God. Did God “give birth” to Himself?
You can't say the Holy Spirit is the SON OF God, and at the same time say it is the very God it is the SON OF.
Hi Mike.
You say that the Son of God cannot also be the very God that He is the son of. And you also say “Did God give birth to himself”.
I do not really want to go there, but I will try.
————
Your mind and your spirit, plus the flesh are you. But your mind is not your spirit and your spirit is not your mind, is it. They both go together though, as one.
The problem here, when trying to understand the Spirit as being a Son while also being God – is when people try to think of God as Man (with a body as man).
We are flesh, flesh procreates.
God is not. God is spirit.We know that because scripture says this clearly, and also because Jesus said “A spirit does not have flesh and bone like you see that I have“, and we know that God is spirit, which, as Jesus said does not have flesh and bone, like Jesus had. as one example (basic stuff).
So, scripture tells us that flesh gives birth to flesh, and spirit gives birth to spirit.
So, God is spirit and the Holy Spirit is spirit.
So, can't the Holy Spirit also be called the Son?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 12 2013,08:34) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 11 2013,08:46) I noticed you did not commit on my complete post Reguarding Hebrews, but just piece milled it , why is that Mike.
Really Gene?
How many times have I told you that if you make a big post, I will skim it, and cherry pick the one thing I WANT to respond to?
If there are particular points you made in that post that you would like me to address, then put ONE of those points in ONE post. I will address the point. Then, put another ONE of those points in ANOTHER post. I will address that point. And so on, and so on.
Gene, I love you, but must be honest with you……….. you RARELY directly address any of the points I make that shoot down your points. (Ie: I'm STILL waiting to hear YOUR response about how “only God is good”, yet OTHER people are also good in scripture. I want to know how YOU THINK Jehovah could say He was the ONLY elohim, but then speak about many OTHER elohim, like judges, angels, Satan, etc.)
So if I were you, I wouldn't get too worked up over a missed question that was hidden in a huge post. You are still WAY behind me in the answers versus questions race.
peace,
mike
Mike…..HERE IS YOUR “ONE” QUESTION , do you believe like the serpent who told Eve.That they would be as gods knowing good and evil after they took of the fruit, It appears you do, by what you are saying right?
Genesis 3:4-5 ….Do you believe after they took of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they then became gods, Like Your satan god said they would?
This is just another of your YES OR NO questions. So please answer it as yes or no.
Peace and love to you and yours……………… ………..gene
Mike …….I do notice you certainly do cherrie pick posts and no only mine brother, I have noticed that for along time. Many posts just can't be one liners . I think if you want us to read your long posts you should have the decenty to read ours also brother.
Peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 13 2013,02:29) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 12 2013,12:37) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 12 2013,12:16) Mike and all, I believe God cannot be tempted by evil because his spirit is the only source of Love, similar to how a lake is the source of water. There is no other source of Love and his Love is greater than creation. In this way God is Love.
KWhy his God love ,???
God can not be tempted ,why would
If he did ,then he would be weaker than his own creation ,because you get tempted by your own desires So God desire and will his to do all things for the good of all,so because his desires are perfect in the fullness of the love he has he can not be tempted,
T,It is explicit stated twice in Scripture that he who is God is Love, 1 John 4:8 and 1 John 4:8.
It is explicitly stated in Romans 13:9 that Jehovah's commands are summed up in the command to Love.
Galatians 5:14 and James 2:8 paraphrase that teaching.
The fruit of the Spirit is fulfillment of the Law, Galatians 5:16 & Galatians 5:22-23.
Those who live by the Spirit Love.
It is impossible for Jehovah not to live by the Spirit, James 1:13.
There is only one Spirit, Ephesians 4:4, Ephesians 2:18, 1 Corinthians 12:13, 1 Corinthians 6:17, and Philippians 1:27.
That one Spirit is Jehovah's. Because that Spirit is Jehovah's only he is good, Mark 10: 17-18, Matthew 19:16-17, and Luke 18:18-19, and anyone else that is good is good only because Jehovah dwells in them through that one Spirit, 1 Corinthians 3:16 and Ephesians 2:22.
To all,Mike,
Quote “A spirit does not have flesh and bone like you see that I have” You do notice that Jesus is not God – as Jesus has flesh and bone, right? and God is spirit.
You do believe that God's Son was sent from Heaven, correct.
That Son that was sent from heaven had to have been (In Heaven) Spirit, true?
Was that only Son, Holy?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 13 2013,03:31) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 12 2013,14:29) Because that Spirit is Jehovah's only he is good………. and anyone else that is good is good only because……
What do you mean by “anyone else who is good”? Didn't you just say “only God is good”?This is what I was trying to tell you before, Kerwin. If you say, Jesus is good BECAUSE OF God's Spirit, you are STILL saying “JESUS IS GOOD”. And Jesus can't possibly be good if God is LITERALLY the ONLY good one.
The “because of” part doesn't matter if the end result is “JESUS IS GOOD”. Can't you see this?
Mike,Jesus is not good in himself. He is only good in Jehovah
Jesus' will is not good. Only Jehovah's will is good.
Jesus prayed not my will, (which is not good), but Jehovah's will, (which is all good).
It is just a discussion of creature nature and the nature of Jehovah and how a man can deny his own nature and embrace the nature of Jehovah.
No creature is good without God is a paraphrase of only God is good.
So far, we've learned that the following things cannot be scripturally refuted:
1. John 1:1c can be faithfully translated as “and the Word was a god”. (Many expert Greek scholars)
2. Jesus is called a god in scripture. (Is 9:6, Heb 1:8-9, etc.)
3. Jesus was with God before the world began. (John 17:5)
4. All things were said to have been made through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, Heb 1:2)
5. In Jesus was life. (John 5:26)
6. Jesus was the “light of the world”, and the “light of life”. (John 8:12)
7. Jesus was the light that shined in the darkness. (Matthew 4:16, 2 Corinthians 4:6)
8. The one John the Baptist came to testify about was Jesus Christ. (John 1:29-34; 3:26; 5:32-36)
Moving on………………
9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
Supporting scripture:
Isaiah 42
6 “I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness;
I will take hold of your hand.
I will keep you and will make you
to be a covenant for the people
and a light for the Gentiles,
7 to open eyes that are blind,
to free captives from prison
and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.John 12
35 Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. The man who walks in the dark does not know where he is going. 36 Put your trust in the light while you have it, so that you may become sons of light.”Luke 1
78 Because of God's tender mercy, the morning light from heaven is about to break upon us, 79 to give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, and to guide us to the path of peace.The last verse was from the NLV. But it is interesting to know that the Greek word translated as “morning light” in that version is the same Greek word used to translate “branch” from Hebrew. (See the footnote in the KJV's translation of verse 78) So the words could literally be translated as, the branch from heaven shall visit us, to give light to those who sit in darkness. Also notice how the words of Luke 1:79 echo the words of Is 42:7 above.
Anyway, once again we can see how the same things John wrote about “the Word”, are written in many other scriptures about “Jesus”.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 12 2013,16:15) No creature is good without God is a paraphrase of only God is good.
So then creatures WITH God CAN BE “good”, making the statement “only God is good” an EMPHATICAL statement instead of a LITERAL one – like I've been saying this whole time.Kerwin, do you go out of your way just to NOT agree with me? You know what I've been saying all along. And you know it is correct. Why are you making this molehill into a mountain?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 12 2013,15:38) Mike…..HERE IS YOUR “ONE” QUESTION , do you believe like the serpent who told Eve. That they would be as gods knowing good and evil after they took of the fruit, It appears you do, by what you are saying right?
This is just another of your YES OR NO questions. So please answer it as yes or no.
“YES” Gene, I do.Genesis 3
5 “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
See how easy it is to answer a “YES” or “NO” question WITH a “YES” or “NO”?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 12 2013,15:45) Mike …….I do notice you certainly do cherrie pick posts and no only mine brother, I have noticed that for along time.
Have you also noticed me forewarning people like Keith, Jack, Charles, you, Ed, etc. that if they make a huge post, I'm going to cherry pick the ONE point I WANT to address, and address only that ONE point?Because I warn EVERYONE that I will do this, Gene. Just like I've warned you about 5 times already.
If you want a particular question answered by me, then ONLY ask THAT PARTICULAR question, okay?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 12 2013,12:21) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,16:55) Quote 2. Is eternal life knowing God and “Jesus Christ, whom He sent”? Or is it knowing God and “the Holy Spirit, whom He sent”? Which one, please – according to the words of the scripture? God and the Holy Spirit are one, just as your spirit and your mind are one. Jesus Christ is the anointed messiah/savior of the world. So this fits perfectly with that verse.
Now you are just saying things. Look, I can do it too:Grass is green, and birds fly, so you can see it all fits perfectly with that verse.
You say God and the Holy Spirit are one? And you said that the words in this prayer were said by the Holy Spirit speaking through Jesus, right?
So first of all, we have God (the Holy Spirit) praying to HIMSELF.
Then we have God (the Holy Spirit) saying, 3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Why in the world is God referring to HIMSELF as “you”?
And what does it mean when the Holy Spirit God says this:
4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me…………..
God is calling Himself “you”, and talking about the work that He gave Himself to do? And then God calls Himself “Father”, and asks Himself to glorify Himself? And all this while He is praying to HIMSELF?
2B, you need to reconsider. This is just too much.
Mike,Can your Spirit be in “lingo” with your mind?
Look at this verse, and really think about it in regards to that question or post that you made (1Cor 2:11-16 (ISV)):
'Is there anyone who can understand his own thoughts except his own inner spirit? In the same way, no one can know the thoughts of God except God’s Spirit. Now, we have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who comes from God, so that we can understand the things that were freely given to us by God. We don’t speak about these things with words taught us by human wisdom, but with words taught by the Spirit, as we explain spiritual things to spiritual people. A person who isn’t spiritual doesn’t accept the things of God’s Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can’t understand them because they are spiritually evaluated. The spiritual person evaluates everything but is subject to no one else’s evaluation.
For:“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so that he can advise him?”However, we have the mind of the Messiah.'
—————-
Also, another point is: It says in that verse:
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so that he can advise him?”WHO has known the mind of the Lord?
NO-ONE, that is NO-ONE had, excpet His Spirit.AND YET –
NO-ONE, it says, knows the Father (God) except for the Son (The Lord is the Spirit, 2Cor 3:17)Can you not see that the Son is the Spirit?
Can you not also see that “In the Beginning” creation was as so:
“God created the heavens and the earth.
The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.
And God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.What was ACTIVE? What was MOVING? Yes, the Spirit. What SPOKE? GOD Spoke.
One God, Mike. Not lots of Gods all making the Earth, as scripture tells us SIMPLY God ALONE created the Heavens and the Earth.
Then God made man in His own image.
Mike, God does not HAVE an IMAGE such as a body to make man in His image in that way.The image before the dust had to have been mind and spirit.
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 12 2013,16:04) You do notice that Jesus is not God – as Jesus has flesh and bone, right? and God is spirit.
Yes 2B,I'm well aware that Jesus has never been God Almighty. And when he said the words of Luke 24:39, he had just been resurrected in the same flesh body in which he died. So yes, he WAS a flesh being at that time – just like he told the disciples. He has since “become a life giving spirit”. (1 Cor 15:45) So he is now back in heaven as a spirit being, at the right hand of his God. (Because God answered his prayer in John 17, and glorified him again with the glory he had before the world began. Actually, God gave him an even greater glory than the one he left behind to be made into a human being – but that is a different topic.)
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 12 2013,16:04) You do believe that God's Son was sent from Heaven, correct.
Of course I do. Jesus himself told us that he came down from heaven to do the will of God.Quote (2besee @ Feb. 12 2013,16:04) That Son that was sent from heaven had to have been (In Heaven) Spirit, true?
Absolutely. Flesh cannot enter heaven. Phil 2:6-8 tells us that Jesus was existing in the form of God before being made in the likeness of a human being. So yes, he was a spirit being like God before he “became flesh” (John 1:14), or “came in the flesh” (1 John 4:2).Quote (2besee @ Feb. 12 2013,16:04) Was that only Son, Holy?
I assume so. We are told that he is holy now. I can't think of a scripture offhand that says he was holy before he was sent into the world, but I'm quite sure he was.But before you make your point: son+holy+spirit=holy spirit son…………… remember that angels are also holy spirit sons of God. And surely you don't think the angels are the Holy Spirit of God, right?
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 12 2013,17:06) NO-ONE, it says, knows the Father (God) except for the Son (The Lord is the Spirit, 2Cor 3:17) Can you not see that the Son is the Spirit?
John 5:20
For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these.How does that scripture fit into to your theory?
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 12 2013,12:41)
read those scriptures;;His disciples came to him,
Mt 5:2 and he began to teach them, saying:
MT 5:14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden;
JN 8:12 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, “ I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”
JN 9:5 “While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.”you say it his God that his the light of the world ;but scriptures disagree with you ;the light of the world his Christ wen he was on earth and his disciples wen he left,
so could you show me your scripture that says what you claimT, I have already shown you scriptures, more than once.
Also, you read me wrong.
Please reread what i said, T.Quote God is called the light in the world, I have shown you scripture.
The light of God was seen in Jesus Christ the anointed.Is God light? Yes.
Was Jesus light? Yes.
Were the Disciples light? Yes.That is what it says.
But who is the source of the light?
God.Quote (2besee @ Feb. 12 2013,17:06) What was ACTIVE? What was MOVING? Yes, the Spirit.
From NETNotes:The traditional rendering “Spirit of God” is preserved here, as opposed to a translation like “wind from/breath of God” (cf. NRSV) or “mighty wind” (cf. NEB)………….
If one reads “mighty wind” (cf. NEB) then the verse describes how the powerful wind begins to blow in preparation for the creative act described in vv. 9-10. (God also used a wind to drive back the flood waters in Noah’s day. See Gen 8:1.)
We can't even be sure that “Spirit” is the correct translation of Gen 1:2. It could be the “wind” of God that was hovering/blowing across the waters.
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 12 2013,17:06) One God, Mike. Not lots of Gods all making the Earth, as scripture tells us SIMPLY God ALONE created the Heavens and the Earth. Then God made man in His own image.
Actually, God said, “Let US make man in OUR image”, right? And when they ate of the fruit, He said, “They have become like US”, right?God was not alone when He created the earth, 2B. The Book of Job tells how the morning stars sang, and the sons of God shouted for joy when He founded the earth.
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 12 2013,17:06) Mike, God does not HAVE an IMAGE such as a body to make man in His image in that way.
I disagree. I believe that God and His spirit sons (angels) have spirit bodies. And no, I don't say this just to disagree with you. Kerwin, Gene, Ed, and Pierre can all attest to the fact that I've spent countless hours arguing for this point on my “Do spirits have bodies? How about God?” thread.Hi 2B,
You didn't actually address these points, from John 17………..
God is calling Himself “you”, and talking about the work that He gave Himself to do? And then God calls Himself “Father”, and asks Himself to glorify Himself? And all this while He is praying to HIMSELF?
Does this really make sense to you?
Also, you didn't answer this question…………..
Do you believe that in the beginning, the Holy Spirit was with the Father, and the Holy Spirit was the Father?
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 13 2013,02:29) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 12 2013,12:37) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 12 2013,12:16) Mike and all, I believe God cannot be tempted by evil because his spirit is the only source of Love, similar to how a lake is the source of water. There is no other source of Love and his Love is greater than creation. In this way God is Love.
KWhy his God love ,???
God can not be tempted ,why would
If he did ,then he would be weaker than his own creation ,because you get tempted by your own desires So God desire and will his to do all things for the good of all,so because his desires are perfect in the fullness of the love he has he can not be tempted,
T,It is explicit stated twice in Scripture that he who is God is Love, 1 John 4:8 and 1 John 4:8.
It is explicitly stated in Romans 13:9 that Jehovah's commands are summed up in the command to Love.
Galatians 5:14 and James 2:8 paraphrase that teaching.
The fruit of the Spirit is fulfillment of the Law, Galatians 5:16 & Galatians 5:22-23.
Those who live by the Spirit Love.
It is impossible for Jehovah not to live by the Spirit, James 1:13.
There is only one Spirit, Ephesians 4:4, Ephesians 2:18, 1 Corinthians 12:13, 1 Corinthians 6:17, and Philippians 1:27.
That one Spirit is Jehovah's. Because that Spirit is Jehovah's only he is good, Mark 10: 17-18, Matthew 19:16-17, and Luke 18:18-19, and anyone else that is good is good only because Jehovah dwells in them through that one Spirit, 1 Corinthians 3:16 and Ephesians 2:22.
Kyou quoted me scriptures ,but tell me witch is the scripture that I have broken by what I have stated
I can see you still do not understand what the LOVE of God is ,
you kind keep saying example ; this man is honest ,it is written ,he as a certificate of honesty,he as many actions and so on'
AND WEN SOMEONE ASK WHAT THAT MEAN BEING HONEST ;you can not answered it why
Mike,
Quote Jesus was with God before the world began. (John 17:5) That scripture does not support your claim.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 13 2013,06:08) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 13 2013,02:29) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 12 2013,12:37) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 12 2013,12:16) Mike and all, I believe God cannot be tempted by evil because his spirit is the only source of Love, similar to how a lake is the source of water. There is no other source of Love and his Love is greater than creation. In this way God is Love.
KWhy his God love ,???
God can not be tempted ,why would
If he did ,then he would be weaker than his own creation ,because you get tempted by your own desires So God desire and will his to do all things for the good of all,so because his desires are perfect in the fullness of the love he has he can not be tempted,
T,It is explicit stated twice in Scripture that he who is God is Love, 1 John 4:8 and 1 John 4:8.
It is explicitly stated in Romans 13:9 that Jehovah's commands are summed up in the command to Love.
Galatians 5:14 and James 2:8 paraphrase that teaching.
The fruit of the Spirit is fulfillment of the Law, Galatians 5:16 & Galatians 5:22-23.
Those who live by the Spirit Love.
It is impossible for Jehovah not to live by the Spirit, James 1:13.
There is only one Spirit, Ephesians 4:4, Ephesians 2:18, 1 Corinthians 12:13, 1 Corinthians 6:17, and Philippians 1:27.
That one Spirit is Jehovah's. Because that Spirit is Jehovah's only he is good, Mark 10: 17-18, Matthew 19:16-17, and Luke 18:18-19, and anyone else that is good is good only because Jehovah dwells in them through that one Spirit, 1 Corinthians 3:16 and Ephesians 2:22.
Kyou quoted me scriptures ,but tell me witch is the scripture that I have broken by what I have stated
I can see you still do not understand what the LOVE of God is ,
you kind keep saying example ; this man is honest ,it is written ,he as a certificate of honesty,he as many actions and so on'
AND WEN SOMEONE ASK WHAT THAT MEAN BEING HONEST ;you can not answered it why
T,I believe we are in agreement on this matter.
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