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Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2013,05:14) 2bee 2Pe 2:9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
2Pe 2:10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority.
Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;do you ever wander what this scripture means ,or what Peter try to say ?
2Peter 2
[1]
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
[2] And many will follow their licentiousness, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled.
[3] And in their greed they will exploit you with false words; from of old their condemnation has not been idle, and their destruction has not been asleep.
[4]For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of nether gloom to be kept until the judgment;
[5] if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven other persons, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
[6] if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomor'rah to ashes he condemned them to extinction and made them an example to those who were to be ungodly;
[7] and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the licentiousness of the wicked
[8] (for by what that righteous man saw and heard as he lived among them, he was vexed in his righteous soul day after day with their lawless deeds),
[9] then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trial, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment,
[10] and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.Bold and wilful, they are not afraid to revile the glorious ones,
[11] whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a reviling judgment upon them before the Lord.
[12] But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and killed, reviling in matters of which they are ignorant, will be destroyed in the same destruction with them,
[13] suffering wrong for their wrongdoing. They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their dissipation, carousing with you.
[14] They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children!
[15] Forsaking the right way they have gone astray; they have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Be'or, who loved gain from wrongdoing,
[16] but was rebuked for his own transgression; a dumb ass spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
[17]These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm; for them the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved.
[18] For, uttering loud boasts of folly, they entice with licentious passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped from those who live in error.
[19] They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved.
[20] For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
[21] For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
[22] It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.——————-
Why do you ask?
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 01 2013,03:11) Okay, back to the Word (Logos)… He who does not love me does not keep my word (logos); and the word (logos) which you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.
http://biblos.com/john/14-24.htm
When anyone hears the word (logos) of the kingdom …..
http://biblos.com/matthew/13-19.htm
Why neither thought I myself worthy to come to you: but say in a word (logos) and my servant shall be healed.
http://biblos.com/luke/7-7.htm
But he said to them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word (logos) of God and do it.”
http://biblos.com/luke/8-21.htm
When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this; and they believed the scripture and the word (logos) which Jesus had spoken.
http://biblos.com/john/2-22.htm
Jesus said to him, “Go; your son will live.” The man believed the word (logos) that Jesus spoke to him and went his way.
http://biblos.com/john/4-50.htm
It was that the word (logos) spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled:
http://biblos.com/john/12-38.htm
Remember the word (logos) that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word (logos), they will keep yours also.
http://biblos.com/john/15-20.htm
It is all the same word used in these verses.Strongs 3056. And these are just a few examples. I can find more.
Hi 2B,It is not my intention to make you angry. I actually like you, and many of the things you post. I believe you are truly a man who wants desperately to seek God, and thinks of very little else. Please remember that my intent is to point you to scriptures that tell the story the way it was meant to be told………. nothing more.
That being said, I appreciate the enormous amount of time it took for you to write this huge “Part 2” post. But I can't discuss scriptural doctrines this way. Too much gets lost just in the sheer VOLUME of words posted.
You mentioned that you've posted many scriptures that support your view, while I only posted three. Well, I posted three for a reason, 2B. I could have posted the over 50 scriptures some of us here put together in the “Pre-existent Scriptural Database”. But then what? You would have to write a million word post to refute what I thought each of those scriptures taught. We would easily become bogged down in words.
Please keep that in mind for the future. Short and to-the-point posts work much better.
As for the scriptures in the quote box above, try replacing the word “logos” with “Holy Spirit” in all of those verses. Does it work? If it doesn't work in each scripture you posted, then you have a problem, right? And, just for a kicker, here is one of the many scriptures I can find where the word “logos” simply refers to any old “word” spoken or written by any old person:
1 Corinthians 2:4
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:Both of the bolded words above are the Greek word “logos”, 2B.
If anything, the scriptures you posted hurt your doctrine – not help it.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2013,10:51) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,10:28) Ed, 'spirit gives birth to spirit'.
2Besee.I agree.
wakeup.
Hi 2Besee and Wakeup,Yes, the “HolySpirit” concieved the “spirit of Christ” in Mary (Matt.1:20-21). <– Do you agree
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 02 2013,14:16) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2013,10:51) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,10:28) Ed, 'spirit gives birth to spirit'.
2Besee.I agree.
wakeup.
Hi 2Besee and Wakeup,Yes, the “HolySpirit” concieved the “spirit of Christ” in Mary (Matt.1:20-21). <– Do you agree
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
“For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.” (Luke 2:11)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 02 2013,15:51) Hi 2B, It is not my intention to make you angry. Please remember that my intent is to point you to scriptures that tell the story the way it was meant to be told………. nothing more.
I actually like you, and many of the things you post. I believe you are truly a man who wants desperately to seek God, and thinks of very little else.Quote It is not my intention to make you angry. You have not made me angry Mike.
Quote I actually like you, and many of the things you post. I believe you are truly a man who wants desperately to seek God, and thinks of very little else. And the same to you.
Quote That being said, I appreciate the enormous amount of time it took for you to write this huge “Part 2” post. But I can't discuss scriptural doctrines this way. Too much gets lost just in the sheer VOLUME of words posted. You mentioned that you've posted many scriptures that support your view, while I only posted three. Well, I posted three for a reason, 2B. I could have posted the over 50 scriptures some of us here put together in the “Pre-existent Scriptural Database”. But then what? You would have to write a million word post to refute what I thought each of those scriptures taught. We would easily become bogged down in words.
Please keep that in mind for the future. Short and to-the-point posts work much better.
Okay I will and I agree I do not like long posts either.
Can you limit your questions to perhaps one per post? That would help me.
Thanks Mike.
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,05:55) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2013,05:14) 2bee 2Pe 2:9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
2Pe 2:10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority.
Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;do you ever wander what this scripture means ,or what Peter try to say ?
2Peter 2
[1]
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
[2] And many will follow their licentiousness, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled.
[3] And in their greed they will exploit you with false words; from of old their condemnation has not been idle, and their destruction has not been asleep.
[4]For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of nether gloom to be kept until the judgment;
[5] if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven other persons, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
[6] if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomor'rah to ashes he condemned them to extinction and made them an example to those who were to be ungodly;
[7] and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the licentiousness of the wicked
[8] (for by what that righteous man saw and heard as he lived among them, he was vexed in his righteous soul day after day with their lawless deeds),
[9] then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trial, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment,
[10] and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.Bold and wilful, they are not afraid to revile the glorious ones,
[11] whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a reviling judgment upon them before the Lord.
[12] But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and killed, reviling in matters of which they are ignorant, will be destroyed in the same destruction with them,
[13] suffering wrong for their wrongdoing. They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their dissipation, carousing with you.
[14] They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children!
[15] Forsaking the right way they have gone astray; they have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Be'or, who loved gain from wrongdoing,
[16] but was rebuked for his own transgression; a dumb ass spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
[17]These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm; for them the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved.
[18] For, uttering loud boasts of folly, they entice with licentious passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped from those who live in error.
[19] They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved.
[20] For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
[21] For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
[22] It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.——————-
Why do you ask?
2beI assume you do not understand those scriptures ,because you only quoted them to me ,you did not have made them your own and so cannot explain them to me ,
see you did not came here to learn but to teach others ,without even think who are those you communicate with ,
you claim that you are right ,but do not show any righteousness
you claim knowing truth but you do not show truthfulness ,
if you would be a real believer and a truthful one you would show the qualities of it ,don't you think??? YES
but you do not ,why
people may agree with you because they share in your view ,but this does not mean that your view is the truth of God ,this is my truth that I am looking for ,Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 02 2013,15:51) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 01 2013,03:11) Okay, back to the Word (Logos)… He who does not love me does not keep my word (logos); and the word (logos) which you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.
http://biblos.com/john/14-24.htm
When anyone hears the word (logos) of the kingdom …..
http://biblos.com/matthew/13-19.htm
Why neither thought I myself worthy to come to you: but say in a word (logos) and my servant shall be healed.
http://biblos.com/luke/7-7.htm
But he said to them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word (logos) of God and do it.”
http://biblos.com/luke/8-21.htm
When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this; and they believed the scripture and the word (logos) which Jesus had spoken.
http://biblos.com/john/2-22.htm
Jesus said to him, “Go; your son will live.” The man believed the word (logos) that Jesus spoke to him and went his way.
http://biblos.com/john/4-50.htm
It was that the word (logos) spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled:
http://biblos.com/john/12-38.htm
Remember the word (logos) that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word (logos), they will keep yours also.
http://biblos.com/john/15-20.htm
It is all the same word used in these verses.Strongs 3056. And these are just a few examples. I can find more.
As for the scriptures in the quote box above, try replacing the word “logos” with “Holy Spirit” in all of those verses. Does it work? If it doesn't work in each scripture you posted, then you have a problem, right? And, just for a kicker, here is one of the many scriptures I can find where the word “logos” simply refers to any old “word” spoken or written by any old person:
1 Corinthians 2:4
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:Both of the bolded words above are the Greek word “logos”, 2B.
If anything, the scriptures you posted hurt your doctrine – not help it.
So, Mike, you admit then that 'Logos' is speech and word spoken and that in John 1:1 the 'Logos' is divine speech? So then, regarding pre-existance, where does that fit in with God's word (spoken speech) pre-existing apart from it being God's own word? And also, there would have been a time when God first spoke, it takes the spirit to make words. So to me then, God's own word and God's own spirit go together. They are the one God and God's word and God's spirit were then in Jesus, the chosen vessel, much like 'man' was made in God's image (mind and spirit) Genesis 1:26, and then later was put in a body (made a living soul – Genesis 2:7 – just thinking aloud here only).Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2013,17:16) 2be I assume you do not understand those scriptures ,because you only quoted them to me ,you did not have made them your own and so cannot explain them to me ,
see you did not came here to learn but to teach others ,without even think who are those you communicate with ,
you claim that you are right ,but do not show any righteousness
you claim knowing truth but you do not show truthfulness ,
if you would be a real believer and a truthful one you would show the qualities of it ,don't you think??? YES
but you do not ,why
people may agree with you because they share in your view ,but this does not mean that your view is the truth of God ,this is my truth that I am looking for ,
I have seen people like you. The reason that i tolerated your behavior was because I got used to ones like you in the past, and came to understand the reason why. But i only put up with it for so long.Bye bye.
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 02 2013,16:16) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2013,10:51) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,10:28) Ed, 'spirit gives birth to spirit'.
2Besee.I agree.
wakeup.
Hi 2Besee and Wakeup,Yes, the “HolySpirit” concieved the “spirit of Christ” in Mary (Matt.1:20-21). <– Do you agree
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed, I don't know I have not given that much thought honestly.When I see 'spirit gives birth to spirit' I see God and the Holy Spirit (Son).
Hi 2Besee,
When you say the “HolySpirit”, rather that the father, is Jesus it creates a bunch of problems.
1. Jesus conceived himself. …………………… (ref. Matt 1:20)
2. Jesus raised himself from the dead. ……. (ref. Rom 8:11)
3. Then, you stop short of saying “Jesus is God”, why?BUT, if the HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ all these problems disappear,
and the entirety of Scripture flows together beautifully.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,10:33) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 02 2013,17:16) 2be I assume you do not understand those scriptures ,because you only quoted them to me ,you did not have made them your own and so cannot explain them to me ,
see you did not came here to learn but to teach others ,without even think who are those you communicate with ,
you claim that you are right ,but do not show any righteousness
you claim knowing truth but you do not show truthfulness ,
if you would be a real believer and a truthful one you would show the qualities of it ,don't you think??? YES
but you do not ,why
people may agree with you because they share in your view ,but this does not mean that your view is the truth of God ,this is my truth that I am looking for ,
I have seen people like you. The reason that i tolerated your behavior was because I got used to ones like you in the past, and came to understand the reason why. But i only put up with it for so long.Bye bye.
Did I say some thing wrongNot T, don't worry.
I have decided that i have learnt heaps from this thread, thank you all.
But, before I get accused of being a false teacher (I honestly was not trying to teach, only learn) I think I am finished with this thread now.And I thank God for showing me so much.
Amen.Quote (2besee @ Feb. 02 2013,20:28) Not T, don't worry. I have decided that i have learnt heaps from this thread, thank you all.
But, before I get accused of being a false teacher (I honestly was not trying to teach, only learn) I think I am finished with this thread now.And I thank God for showing me so much.
Amen.
2Besee.And you can learn so much more,if you are open to the truth.
wakeup.
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