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Mike, so if according to you, another god made the earth too, then according to that verse, that god will perish from the earth and under the heavens?
God made the earth and the heavens it says by his power, his wisdom, and his understanding.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 23 2013,09:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,13:28) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,21:59) I would not say or think 'It is God' because I know that God is 'God'. I need to work more on this.
Ah, that's better.So now what?
Are you ready to accept the scriptures that clearly call Jesus a god, while understanding that although he is a god (mighty one), he is the THE God, Jehovah?
Jeremiah 10.[11] Thus shall you say to them:
“The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens.
[12] It is he who made the earth by his power,
who established the world by his wisdom,
and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.“Remember, God alone made the heavens according to Scripture, and there was no other god beside Him.
I was only on that chapter because I was looking at something to do with 'Christmas' which is also in that Chapter, verse 3-4.
Yet Mike, you say that 'God's word' which it says in the OT is spoken through 'God's own mouth', is another god.So according to Jeremiah, this other god will be destroyed.
So, then this fits better:
Isaiah 55
[10]”For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
and return not thither but water the earth,
making it bring forth and sprout,
giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
[11] so shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth;
it shall not return to me empty,
but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
and prosper in the thing for which I sent it.Quote (2besee @ Jan. 23 2013,09:08) Mike, so if according to you, another god made the earth too,
Correction, according to you and others, through. (same thing).Remember that Hebrews chapter and the Greek translation, where it could say that the earth was made for or on account of, where translations have it as by or through.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 23 2013,02:19) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 23 2013,09:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2013,13:28) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,21:59) I would not say or think 'It is God' because I know that God is 'God'. I need to work more on this.
Ah, that's better.So now what?
Are you ready to accept the scriptures that clearly call Jesus a god, while understanding that although he is a god (mighty one), he is the THE God, Jehovah?
Jeremiah 10.[11] Thus shall you say to them:
“The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens.
[12] It is he who made the earth by his power,
who established the world by his wisdom,
and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.“Remember, God alone made the heavens according to Scripture, and there was no other god beside Him.
I was only on that chapter because I was looking at something to do with 'Christmas' which is also in that Chapter, verse 3-4.
Yet Mike, you say that 'God's word' which it says in the OT is spoken through 'God's own mouth', is another god.So according to Jeremiah, this other god will be destroyed.
So, then this fits better:
Isaiah 55
[10]”For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
and return not thither but water the earth,
making it bring forth and sprout,
giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
[11] so shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth;
it shall not return to me empty,
but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
and prosper in the thing for which I sent it.
2beesee,Good passage from Isaiah. I see that translators choose to interpret the Hebrew “he” as the English “it” when they translate. Some also do that with the Greek “he” in John 1:3 and other places.
John 1:3
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2013,09:34) John 1:3
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.
Hi Kerwin,Here is the Greek:
http://biblos.com/john/1-3.htmAnd if you click on the Greek word to the left 846 autos it can also be “it or the same”.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 23 2013,09:19) Isaiah 55
[10]”For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
and return not thither but water the earth,
making it bring forth and sprout,
giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
[11] so shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth;
it shall not return to me empty,
but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
and prosper in the thing for which I sent it.
Mike,What is the bread that came down from heaven?
According to this verse it says 'the words that came out of God's Mouth.'Remember what Logos means (Divine Speech)
John 6
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
[63] It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2013,02:04) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2013,01:49) k Quote The dwelling place of God was destroyed by mankind and on the third day it was rebuilt by the hands of Jehovah. you have in deed colorful expression to say the least ,but is it the truth
so show me scriptures ?
T,If you consider then you already know what passage I speak of. Never the less it is John 2:19.
kJn 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
this does not fully said what you imply with your comment does it
Quote The dwelling place of God was destroyed by mankind Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2013,03:23) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2013,02:04) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2013,01:49) k Quote The dwelling place of God was destroyed by mankind and on the third day it was rebuilt by the hands of Jehovah. you have in deed colorful expression to say the least ,but is it the truth
so show me scriptures ?
T,If you consider then you already know what passage I speak of. Never the less it is John 2:19.
kJn 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
this does not fully said what you imply with your comment does it
Quote The dwelling place of God was destroyed by mankind
T,The body is temple of God, in which God dwells by his Spirit, 1 Corinthians 3:16. There is a body, eternal in the heavens, that is not made by human hands, 2 Corinthians 5:1.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2013,04:29) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2013,03:23) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2013,02:04) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2013,01:49) k Quote The dwelling place of God was destroyed by mankind and on the third day it was rebuilt by the hands of Jehovah. you have in deed colorful expression to say the least ,but is it the truth
so show me scriptures ?
T,If you consider then you already know what passage I speak of. Never the less it is John 2:19.
kJn 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
this does not fully said what you imply with your comment does it
Quote The dwelling place of God was destroyed by mankind
T,The body is temple of God, in which God dwells by his Spirit, 1 Corinthians 3:16. There is a body, eternal in the heavens, that is not made by human hands, 2 Corinthians 5:1.
klets look at your scriptures ;
1Co 3:10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds.
1Co 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
1Co 3:13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work.
1Co 3:14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
1Co 3:15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
1Co 3:16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you?
1Co 3:17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
1Co 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a “fool” so that he may become wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”;
1Co 3:20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”
1Co 3:21 So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours,
1Co 3:22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours,
1Co 3:23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.it seems to me that it is a temple if only you are worshiping the true God and are in line with his will ,if not you are not a temple of God,
2Co 5:1 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.
2Co 5:2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling,
2Co 5:3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.Rev 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
so you have decreed that you are one of those that are redeemed from the earth
and so that all scriptures are applying to your live and hopes right Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2013,04:42) k lets look at your scriptures ;
1Co 3:10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds.
1Co 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
1Co 3:13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work.
1Co 3:14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
1Co 3:15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
1Co 3:16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you?
1Co 3:17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
1Co 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a “fool” so that he may become wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”;
1Co 3:20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”
1Co 3:21 So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours,
1Co 3:22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours,
1Co 3:23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.it seems to me that it is a temple if only you are worshiping the true God and are in line with his will ,if not you are not a temple of God,
2Co 5:1 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.
2Co 5:2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling,
2Co 5:3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.Rev 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
so you have decreed that you are one of those that are redeemed from the earth
and so that all scriptures are applying to your live and hopes right
T,I am applying those words to the words of Jesus in John 2:19 to reveal that men destroyed Jesus' body, that was the temple of God, and Jehovah built it anew.
As for me, I merely hope and strive to be counted among the elect.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2013,20:14) I already pointed out a situation when Jesus addresses a 'what' as if it is a 'who” to Pierre.
And do you believe that God's “only begotten” is the PERSON, Jesus Christ, like many scriptures say? Is Jesus Christ a “who”? Or a “what”?Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2013,20:14) We know that John 1:17 is talking about the Spirit because she knows all things and reveals them first to Jesus.
What!?! Who is the “we” who “KNOW” this?17 For the law was given by Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
I don't see any mention of any “spirit” in that verse, Kerwin. Where are YOU seeing it?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2013,20:14) The Spirit is also called the Son in other places.
Like where?Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2013,20:14) Jesus is the only begotten Son of God in the same way Isaac is the only begotten of Abraham.
And is the only begotten of Abraham a “who”? Or a “what”? How about the only begotten of God? A “who”? Or a “what”?Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,11:45) I believe that Emanuel means that the Word, that was God and was with God, was made flesh and that God dwells in Jesus via the Spirit.
So the Word was God Almighty Himself? And God Almighty Himself was made flesh? Is that it?Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,11:45) I met Mike and so hope was made flesh.
Okay, good. Now at least you are using the word “was” in your sample. Can you find me an example from anywhere in history where someone wrote similar words that would give creedence to your example sentence?Kerwin, John the Baptist speaks about God being able to make sons of Abraham from stones. Let's suppose God DID do that. And let's suppose John said, “These stones became (were made) flesh”. Now, wouldn't that imply that something that WASN'T flesh at first, was TURNED INTO flesh?
Or would you assume that “spirit stones” started to dwell IN someone who was already flesh, and John oddly worded it as “These stones WERE MADE flesh.” ?
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 17 2013,09:32) Quote (t8 @ Jan. 16 2013,10:18)
You would have to argue that the Comma Johanneum was scripture and would also have to assume that the Textus Receptus was accurate while older texts including the Dead Sea Scrolls were not as reliable.
Hi T8,No, I would argue that it is in there for a purpose.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
And why would you do that?
Because your Number thing requires that the KJV be perfect.
No other reason.A perfect example of a thought process from you.
We call that bias BTW.
Hi 2B,
First of all, read Jeremiah 10 in context. Jehovah is railing against idols. Secondly, understand that angels of Jehovah are called gods in scripture (as you yourself have pointed out in this thread). Do you really think those faithful angels of God, who did not create the heavens and the earth, will perish from under heaven? Do you think it is these good, faithful “gods” that Jehovah is talking about in that passage? YES or NO, please.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 22 2013,14:05) Remember, God alone made the heavens according to Scripture………
Agreed – for the 40th time in this thread!Quote (2besee @ Jan. 22 2013,14:05) ………and there was no other god beside Him.
Remind me of what scripture says those words.Quote (2besee @ Jan. 22 2013,14:08) Mike, so if according to you, another god made the earth too………………
I've never once stated that anyone besides Jehovah created anything at all. I have told you this countless times, 2B. Did you hear me this time? YES or NO, please.Mike, men do not want to believe that God is eternal and his son came from him.
The Antichrist spirit denies the son, so people under that influence will deny the son in word and deed. Even Islam does this.
People will argue that Jesus is God, a 200 year old created man, and a number of other excuses to deny that truth that God is from everlasting to everlasting and that all things were made by this God through his first born son, who has first place in all things.
At times it seems weird that men cannot see what scripture is saying, but when you understand that there are spirits involved and that the chief of these spirit blinds the minds of unbelievers, then it becomes apparent that all manner of opposition to scripture is a given.
But remember, that they cannot with their mouth utter these great words.
Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2013,14:01) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 22 2013,14:08) Mike, so if according to you, another god made the earth too………………
I've never once stated that anyone besides Jehovah created anything at all. I have told you this countless times, 2B. Did you hear me this time? YES or NO, please.
2B, behave thyself.Quote (2besee @ Jan. 22 2013,14:19) Yet Mike, you say that 'God's word' which it says in the OT is spoken through 'God's own mouth', is another god.
The word of God came to many people through various ways (Heb 1:1-2). In fact, we can read the written word of God on a daily bases, if we choose to do so.On the other hand, the Word of God is the title for God's main spokesman, Jesus Christ.
In most cases, when scripture says the word of God came to someone, it is talking about the “commands/instructions/prophesies” from God, that came to a person by varying means – sometimes from an angel of God, sometimes through a vision. 95% of the time in scripture, “the word of God” refers to these spoken words from God, that came to a prophet or whoever through various means.
But in a few cases (John 1:1, 1:14, 1 John 1:1, Revelation 19:13), the phrase “the Word” doesn't refer to words that God relayed to someone else via angel or vision. In those cases, it refers to God's main spokesman, Jesus Christ.
Jesus has the title “the Word”, because he is God's main spokesperson. Similarly, the King of Abyssinia had a spokesman back in the day who was called “Kal Hatze”, which means “the word of the king”.
Sometimes, in the Hebrew scriptures, the word of God is also called “the mouth of God”. And Aaron was made “the mouth of Moses” by God, right? Doesn't “mouth”, in these cases, mean “spokesman”? Yet the word “mouth” doesn't ALWAYS mean “spokesman”, right?
It is the same with the word “word”. Sometimes it just refers to a written or spoken word from anyone at all.
Other times, it is used poetically, like when God says He will send His word forth, and it will not come back to Him without accomplishing His purpose. (That is a pretty way of saying, “The thing I just SAID would happen, definitely WILL happen the way I said it would!”)
And still other times, it refers to God's spokesman, Jesus Christ. It is only THESE LAST TIMES that “God's word” refers to another god, namely, Jesus Christ.
Do you understand these things, 2B?
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2013,18:02) People will argue that Jesus is God, a 2000 year old created man, and a number of other excuses to deny that truth that God is from everlasting to everlasting and that all things were made by this God through his first born son.
Amen, t8.Your input is much needed in this thread……. if you have the time.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 22 2013,15:07) Isaiah 55
[10]”For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
and return not thither but water the earth,
making it bring forth and sprout,
giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
[11] so shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth;
it shall not return to me empty,
but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
and prosper in the thing for which I sent it.Mike,
What is the bread that came down from heaven?
According to this verse it says 'the words that came out of God's Mouth.'
That passage says nothing of the sort, 2B.God is saying that as the rain falls from heaven, ultimately ending up putting bread in the mouth of humans, so is His word. And just as the rain accomplishes the purpose for which God sent it (making things grow, which give the seed to plant the crops, which end up in the bread that feeds human beings), His spoken words will do the same.
In other words, God is not just talking to hear Himself talk. There are divine reasons that God sent certain words to certain men at certain times throughout history. One example that comes quickly to mind is when God sent His word to Jonah. That word did not come back to Him empty. Instead, because of the word He sent to Jonah, the huge city of Ninevah was spared – and those particular sons of God continued on living.
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