In the Beginning

[Ed J]

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 15 2013,08:31)

Hi Ed, Nobody could be equal to God though, right? Well those translations say otherwise.

Hi 2besee,

Not equal in power.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[2besee]

Hi Ed.
But many people would take it to mean 'in power'.

[Ed J]

Hi 2Besee,

Sooner or later you “ARE” going to get this.
Equal – having God's motivation in our spirit.  

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 13 2013,14:38)

Hi Mike, For me I don't have a problem with it because I see the Word of God (God's Logos) being clothed in flesh (Being IN Jesus) so I can understand the wording of the whole chapter as meaning the Word and Jesus (the man) at the same time.

2B,

Since you can see verses 1 thru 18 applying to either Jesus or the Word, you are seeing it the way I see it.

The Word = Jesus = the Son of God = the Lamb = the Son of Man, etc.

So apparently then, your whole misunderstanding stems from you having to ADD the word “IN” into 1:14, right?  What would happen if you read 1:14 the way it was actually written – without adding in your own word?

(Once you are able to do that, you will then come to the TRUE understanding of John 1.  But until you are able to let go of your own personal wishes, you will continue to read “the Word came to be IN flesh”, instead of what John really wrote.  And until you are able to read it like John actually wrote it, you'll never come to the truth of the teaching.)

2B, are you so proud that you are willing to add your own words into the scriptures, thereby changing the entire teaching John wrote down for us? Or are you humble enough to let the scriptures teach YOU – instead of the other way around?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 13 2013,14:38)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2013,03:56) From the fullness of his (the Word's) grace we have all received one blessing after another, since grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Hi Mike, I see in a way Jesus (the flesh) and the Word as being one…

Point #2………

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Once again, we see parallel teachings about “grace and truth”.  Verses 14 and 16 speak about the Word's grace and truth.  But verse 17 lists the source of that grace and truth as Jesus Christ.

Is this a coincidence?  Did grace and truth come to us from the Word AND from Jesus Christ?  Or is John speaking about the same subject in both cases?

Point #3…………

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the only begotten Son,who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

In verse 14 above, John writes about the Word being the only begotten from the Father.  And in verse 18, he lists Jesus Christ as being the only begotten Son of God.

Another coincidence?  Does the Father have TWO “only begottens”?  Or is John speaking about the same subject in both cases?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,10:26)

You can't just sweep this verse under the rug Mike.

Isaiah also talks about Jehovah being the only Savior.  Does that mean Jesus is NOT our Savior?  Or does it mean Jesus IS Jehovah?

Ed, we've been through this over and over and over.  You ran away from my “Indeed there are many gods” thread, yet keep bringing up the same tired arguments against me in other threads – over and over.  These are arguments that I've already answered, Ed.

How can Jehovah call Satan “the god of Ekron”, if Jehovah considers Himself to LITERALLY be the only god in existence?  How can He even CALL someone else a god, if He is LITERALLY the only one?

Or better yet:

Hebrews 1:8 AKJV
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

How can Jehovah call His Son a god, if He is LITERALLY the only god?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 13 2013,14:36)

There are many 'so called gods' separate from the Father who is the only true God with Jesus who now works with God the father in authority and can also rightly be called God (remember the stories in the OT where Angels were also called YHVH).

Hi 2B,

Just so you know, there is no such phrase in all of scripture as “so called god”.  What Paul says in 1 Cor 8:5 is, For even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many gods and many lords).

Paul says nothing about “so-called gods” or “false gods”.  Those phrases are the inventions of men who think they have to protect the Bible from itself.

I'm with you on the other point, though.  Often in scripture, vice-regents OF God are called “YHWH” and “God”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 13 2013,16:22)

HAVE THIS MIND IN YOU ALSO. So the other translations are telling us (according to their translation) to think it not robbery to be equal to God!?

Good point, 2B.  

Your RSV has translated that verse correctly.  The 1984 NIV has it the same way as the RSV, but the 2011 version has did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage.

Many Trinitarian translations PURPOSELY butcher that passage in an attempt to FORCE the scriptures to teach something they clearly don't teach.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,18:56)

Here is your answer: As Christ, my spirit is equally “one” with God; taking nothing away from God.

And this is the same mind we should all have within ourselves, Ed?  

This info is from the JW's:
Philippians 2:5, 6:
KJV reads: “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.” (Dy has the same wording.  JB reads: “he did not cling to his equality with God.”)

However, in NW the latter portion of that passage reads: “who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure [Greek, har·pag·mon′], namely, that he should be equal to God.” (RS, NE, TEV, NAB convey the same thought.)

Which thought agrees with the context? Verse 5 counsels Christians to imitate Christ in the matter here being discussed. Could they be urged to consider it “not robbery,” but their right, “to be equal with God”? Surely not! However, they can imitate one who “gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” (NW) (Compare Genesis 3:5.) Such a translation also agrees with Jesus Christ himself, who said: “The Father is greater than I.”—John 14:28.

The Expositor’s Greek Testament says: “We cannot find any passage where [har·pa′zo] or any of its derivatives [including har·pag·mon′] has the sense of ‘holding in possession,’ ‘retaining’. It seems invariably to mean ‘seize,’ ‘snatch violently’. Thus it is not permissible to glide from the true sense, ‘grasp at’ into one which is totally different, ‘hold fast.’”—(Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1967), edited by W. Robertson Nicoll, Vol. III, pp. 436, 437.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 15 2013,10:41)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,10:26) You can't just sweep this verse under the rug Mike. Isaiah also talks about Jehovah being the only Savior.  Does that mean Jesus is NOT our Savior?  Or does it mean Jesus IS Jehovah? Ed, we've been through this over and over and over.  You ran away from my “Indeed there are many gods” thread, yet keep bringing up the same tired arguments against me in other threads – over and over.  These are arguments that I've already answered, Ed. How can Jehovah call Satan “the god of Ekron”, if Jehovah considers Himself to LITERALLY be the only god in existence?  How can He even CALL someone else a god, if He is LITERALLY the only one? Or better yet: Hebrews 1:8 AKJV But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. How can Jehovah call His Son a god, if He is LITERALLY the only god?

Hi Mike,

“God the Father”(117) is “The Savior”(117),
 God saves us THROUGH Jesus Christ.

 If you give a homeless person $20.oo, and he cry's out
“THANK YOU GOD”, is he calling you “God” or a god?

God doesn't call his son a god, that is a religious fallacy.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 15 2013,10:47)

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 13 2013,14:36) There are many 'so called gods' separate from the Father who is the only true God with Jesus who now works with God the father in authority and can also rightly be called God (remember the stories in the OT where Angels were also called YHVH). Hi 2B, Just so you know, there is no such phrase in all of scripture as “so called god”.  What Paul says in 1 Cor 8:5 is, For even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many gods and many lords). Paul says nothing about “so-called gods” or “false gods”.  Those phrases are the inventions of men who think they have to protect the Bible from itself. I'm with you on the other point, though.  Often in scripture, vice-regents OF God are called “YHWH” and “God”.

Hi Mike,

A 'called god' “IS” a 'so called god',
because there is only one “GOD”, JEHOVAH!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 15 2013,11:16)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,18:56) Here is your answer: As Christ, my spirit is equally “one” with God; taking nothing away from God. And this is the same mind we should all have within ourselves, Ed?

Yep

[2besee]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 15 2013,12:08)

Hi 2Besee, Sooner or later you “ARE” going to get this. Equal – having God's motivation in our spirit.   God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,
The RSV and other versions say something quite the opposite, including the Greek.

[Ed J]

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 16 2013,07:37)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 15 2013,12:08) Hi 2Besee, Sooner or later you “ARE” going to get this. Equal – having God's motivation in our spirit.   God bless Ed J Hi Ed, The RSV and other versions say something quite the opposite, including the Greek.

Hi 2Besee,

Phil 2:5-6 (AKJV) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

I already showed you the Greek is exactly the same meaning:

2:5 τουτο γαρ φρονεισθω εν υμιν ο και εν χριστω ιησου
2:6 ος εν μορφη θεου υπαρχων ουχ αρπαγμον ηγησατο το ειναι ισα θεω

(Phil 2:5-6) 2:5 This understanding is in you in Christ Jesus:
2:6 In the form that God exists (Spirit), think it not robbery to be considered equal.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[2besee]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 15 2013,12:16)

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 13 2013,14:38) Hi Mike, For me I don't have a problem with it because I see the Word of God (God's Logos) being clothed in flesh (Being IN Jesus) so I can understand the wording of the whole chapter as meaning the Word and Jesus (the man) at the same time. 2B, Since you can see verses 1 thru 18 applying to either Jesus or the Word, you are seeing it the way I see it. The Word = Jesus = the Son of God = the Lamb = the Son of Man, etc. So apparently then, your whole misunderstanding stems from you having to ADD the word “IN” into 1:14, right?  What would happen if you read 1:14 the way it was actually written – without adding in your own word? (Once you are able to do that, you will then come to the TRUE understanding of John 1.  But until you are able to let go of your own personal wishes, you will continue to read “the Word came to be IN flesh”, instead of what John really wrote.  And until you are able to read it like John actually wrote it, you'll never come to the truth of the teaching.) 2B, are you so proud that you are willing to add your own words into the scriptures, thereby changing the entire teaching John wrote down for us?  Or are you humble enough to let the scriptures teach YOU – instead of the other way around?

Quote

2B, are you so proud that you are willing to add your own words into the scriptures, thereby changing the entire teaching John wrote down for us?  Or are you humble enough to let the scriptures teach YOU – instead of the other way around?

Mike, are you so proud that you are willing to add your own words into the scriptures (the word was a god), therby changing the entire teaching “John” wrote down for us? Or are you humble enough to let the scriptures teach YOU – instead of the other way around?

Scriptures tell us that only ONE GOD ALONE existed and that that one God alone created all that we see, therefore, when it says that the Word was with God and the Word WAS God, surely that must be truth.

Either Jesus was that one God alone or something else, and the words that Jesus say do not indicate that He WAS that one God, but that He was the Son of that one God.

Concentrate (read SLOWLY, go over it again and again):

'No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.' Matthew 11:27

'God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.' 1Corinthians 2:11

'That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. ' John 3:6

[2besee]

The Spirit must be the Son.

[2besee]

Hi Mike, I will have to get to your other points later on, okay.

[2besee]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 16 2013,09:56)

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 16 2013,07:37) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 15 2013,12:08) Hi 2Besee, Sooner or later you “ARE” going to get this. Equal – having God's motivation in our spirit.   God bless Ed J Hi Ed, The RSV and other versions say something quite the opposite, including the Greek. Hi 2Besee, Phil 2:5-6 (AKJV) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: I already showed you the Greek is exactly the same meaning: 2:5 τουτο γαρ φρονεισθω εν υμιν ο και εν χριστω ιησου 2:6 ος εν μορφη θεου υπαρχων ουχ αρπαγμον ηγησατο το ειναι ισα θεω (Phil 2:5-6) 2:5 This understanding is in you in Christ Jesus: 2:6 In the form that God exists (Spirit), think it not robbery to be considered equal. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed, where did you get the Greek from? How come Biblos.com has the Greek saying something different?

[2besee]

Mike, is a man and his spirit one?

[Ed J]

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 16 2013,08:04)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 16 2013,09:56) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 16 2013,07:37) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 15 2013,12:08) Hi 2Besee, Sooner or later you “ARE” going to get this. Equal – having God's motivation in our spirit.   God bless Ed J Hi Ed, The RSV and other versions say something quite the opposite, including the Greek. Hi 2Besee, Phil 2:5-6 (AKJV) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: I already showed you the Greek is exactly the same meaning: 2:5 τουτο γαρ φρονεισθω εν υμιν ο και εν χριστω ιησου 2:6 ος εν μορφη θεου υπαρχων ουχ αρπαγμον ηγησατο το ειναι ισα θεω (Phil 2:5-6) 2:5 This understanding is in you in Christ Jesus: 2:6 In the form that God exists (Spirit), think it not robbery to be considered equal. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Hi Ed, where did you get the Greek from? How come Biblos.com has the Greek saying something different?

Hi 2Besee: WHO CARES WHAT BIBLOS.COM HAS!    …not I!

Focus on the “Textus Receptus” – as the “Official Greek Text”!

And likewise, the “Masoretic Text” as the “Official Hebrew Text”!

…And furthermore – The “AKJV Bible” as the “Official English Text”!   (Link)

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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