In the Beginning

[2besee]

Mike, I will definitely go with “Son”.

My RSV reads:

“No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.”

'The begotten God' does not seem right to me.

[2besee]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,22:08)

Hi 2Besee,   If all books are the same, why not get your truth from a comic book?  (Link) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,
To me, the RSV is one of the most accurate translations that we have.

I have compared many verses and seen the difference, and I trust my RSV.

NOT the KJV, not from what I have been shown. The NKJV is a continuation of the KJV is it not?

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,12:47)

Hi Kerwin, Here is the Textus Receptus: http://bibledatabase.net/html/stephanos_1550/index.htm And Here is the Strong's Concordance: http://biblesuite.com/strongs.htm Eloheem does not have the identical meaning as “God” does in English. The word Eloheem means Angels, Judges, magistrates, god's and “God”                            “God” in English ONLY means GOD. Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (in the AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever. Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue(that is English) will he speak to this people. 1Cor.14:27 (AKJV) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two(Hebrew, Aramaic), or at the most by three(Greek), and that by course; [and let one (“AKJV Bible”) translate]. The “AKJV Bible” we have today was no accident, it's exactly the way GOD wanted it! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed J,

Actually I think god has more meanings than you think as Jimi Hendrix is called a guitar god.

Even the KJV uses god so as it cannot be avoided in some cases:

John 10:35
King James Version (KJV)

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

[Ed J]

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 13 2013,20:19)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,22:08) Hi 2Besee,   If all books are the same, why not get your truth from a comic book?  (Link) God bless Ed J Hi Ed, To me, the RSV is one of the most accurate translations that we have. I have compared many verses and seen the difference, and I trust my RSV. NOT the KJV, not from what I have been shown. The NKJV is a continuation of the KJV is it not?

Hi 2Besee,

Compare Philp.2:6 in each of the altered versions.
And tell me which one you believe is correct; OK?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 13 2013,20:19)

Hi Ed, To me, the RSV is one of the most accurate translations that we have. I have compared many verses and seen the difference, and I trust my RSV. NOT the KJV, not from what I have been shown. The NKJV is a continuation of the KJV is it not?

Hi Wakeup,

NO, the NKJV is yet another perversion of God's word.  (Link)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 13 2013,23:50)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,12:47) Hi Kerwin, Here is the Textus Receptus: http://bibledatabase.net/html/stephanos_1550/index.htm And Here is the Strong's Concordance: http://biblesuite.com/strongs.htm Eloheem does not have the identical meaning as “God” does in English. The word Eloheem means Angels, Judges, magistrates, god's and “God”                            “God” in English ONLY means GOD. Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (in the AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever. Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue(that is English) will he speak to this people. 1Cor.14:27 (AKJV) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two(Hebrew, Aramaic), or at the most by three(Greek), and that by course; [and let one (“AKJV Bible”) translate]. The “AKJV Bible” we have today was no accident, it's exactly the way GOD wanted it! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed J, Actually I think god has more meanings than you think as Jimi Hendrix is called a guitar god. Even the KJV uses god so as it cannot be avoided in some cases: John 10:35 King James Version (KJV) 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Hi Kerwin,

You confuse the word “godfather” with God.
Jimi Hendrix is the godfather of acid rock;
not a god at all; did you think he was?

What you are doing is what the trins do with the word “Person”.
The dictionary will reflect any usage of a word over time.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi Kerwin

Using mans words to justify a claim is a fruitless pursuit.
That is why most use corrupted versions of the bible
to attempt to justify their beliefs. This is not wise.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 13 2013,02:35)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 12 2013,04:26) Now if Jesus said “only” then that means there are no others…….. Amen Gene, I agree Mike with Gene. Good points.

But then you make a dilemma for yourself, 2B, because you've already acknowledged in this thread the fact that Jesus IS called “god” in a few scripturres.

Your agreement with Gene's post would mean that you consider your Lord and Savior to be a “false god”.

What now?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 13 2013,03:12)

Mike, I will definitely go with “Son”.

Okay 2B.  You prefer “son”, and Ed prefers “son”.  Kerwin is undecided, and I believe either word fits the context just fine.

So let's just go with “son” for now.

Your understanding is that John was writing about the Word of God from verse 1 all the way up to verse 16, and then in verse 17, John abruptly stops talking about the Word, and begins talking about Jesus.

I want to examine that for a brief minute:

John 1
16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The word “for”, that I bolded above, is the Greek word “hoti”, which means: 1) that, because, since – according to NETNotes.

Let me re-write the words of that passage, leaving out the part about Moses and the Law, and using the meaning of “since” for the word “for”:

From the fullness of his (the Word's) grace we have all received one blessing after another, since grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.  

This is how I understand the passage.  And since I understand the passage this way, I can't see the reason you've decided that John has stopped talking about one subject, and has begun to talk about a different one. To me, it seems clear enough that the grace in verse 16 and the grace in verse 17 belong to the same person.

Your thoughts?

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,19:19)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 13 2013,23:50) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,12:47) Hi Kerwin, Here is the Textus Receptus: http://bibledatabase.net/html/stephanos_1550/index.htm And Here is the Strong's Concordance: http://biblesuite.com/strongs.htm Eloheem does not have the identical meaning as “God” does in English. The word Eloheem means Angels, Judges, magistrates, god's and “God”                            “God” in English ONLY means GOD. Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (in the AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever. Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue(that is English) will he speak to this people. 1Cor.14:27 (AKJV) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two(Hebrew, Aramaic), or at the most by three(Greek), and that by course; [and let one (“AKJV Bible”) translate]. The “AKJV Bible” we have today was no accident, it's exactly the way GOD wanted it! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed J, Actually I think god has more meanings than you think as Jimi Hendrix is called a guitar god. Even the KJV uses god so as it cannot be avoided in some cases: John 10:35 King James Version (KJV) 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Hi Kerwin, You confuse the word “godfather” with God. Jimi Hendrix is the godfather of acid rock; not a god at all; did you think he was? What you are doing is what the trins do with the word “Person”. The dictionary will reflect any usage of a word over time. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed J.

I looked up the word god on the Merriam-Webster site and that is one example they gave. Jimmie Hendrix is god of guitar in a manner of speaking; he is not Yahweh. No one with knowledge would confuse the two, even though both can be called god.

[mikeboll64]

From Webster's Dictionary:

god
any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature

There are MANY beings who fit this definition. Only one of those beings created the heavens and the earth. Only one of those beings is the Most High God and the God of gods. But those two titles, in and of themselves, prove to us that there MUST exist other “less high gods”, and other gods of whom this Most High God is the God.

When anybody makes the claim that there literally exists only one god, it is clear to those of us who have read the scriptures, that that person clearly hasn't.

Paul said there are many gods, both in heaven and on earth. Was he lying? If not, then who are some of these gods in heaven?

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 14 2013,02:11)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,19:19) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 13 2013,23:50) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,12:47) Hi Kerwin, Here is the Textus Receptus: http://bibledatabase.net/html/stephanos_1550/index.htm And Here is the Strong's Concordance: http://biblesuite.com/strongs.htm Eloheem does not have the identical meaning as “God” does in English. The word Eloheem means Angels, Judges, magistrates, god's and “God”                            “God” in English ONLY means GOD. Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (in the AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever. Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue(that is English) will he speak to this people. 1Cor.14:27 (AKJV) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two(Hebrew, Aramaic), or at the most by three(Greek), and that by course; [and let one (“AKJV Bible”) translate]. The “AKJV Bible” we have today was no accident, it's exactly the way GOD wanted it! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed J, Actually I think god has more meanings than you think as Jimi Hendrix is called a guitar god. Even the KJV uses god so as it cannot be avoided in some cases: John 10:35 King James Version (KJV) 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Hi Kerwin, You confuse the word “godfather” with God. Jimi Hendrix is the godfather of acid rock; not a god at all; did you think he was? What you are doing is what the trins do with the word “Person”. The dictionary will reflect any usage of a word over time. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed J. I looked up the word god on the Merriam-Webster site and that is one example they gave.  Jimmie Hendrix is god of guitar in a manner of speaking; he is not Yahweh.  No one with knowledge would confuse the two, even though both can be called god.

And “a Person” is also a member of “The Trinity”, did you know that?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2013,02:39)

From Webster's Dictionary: god any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature There are MANY beings who fit this definition.  Only one of those beings created the heavens and the earth.  Only one of those beings is the Most High God and the God of gods.  But those two titles, in and of themselves, prove to us that there MUST exist other “less high gods”, and other gods of whom this Most High God is the God. When anybody makes the claim that there literally exists only one god, it is clear to those of us who have read the scriptures, that that person clearly hasn't.   Paul said there are many gods, both in heaven and on earth.  Was he lying?  If not, then who are some of these gods in heaven?

Hi Mike,

You do understand that metaphors are used in Scripture, right Mike?

The term “God of gods” is a metaphor meaning “God over all”,
that does not mean there is more than one God.
To say there is is to violate Isaiah 44:8.

Is there 'a God' beside me? yea,
there is 'no God'; I know not any. (Isa 44:8)

You can't just sweep this verse under the rug Mike.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,22:26)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2013,02:39) From Webster's Dictionary: god any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature There are MANY beings who fit this definition.  Only one of those beings created the heavens and the earth.  Only one of those beings is the Most High God and the God of gods.  But those two titles, in and of themselves, prove to us that there MUST exist other “less high gods”, and other gods of whom this Most High God is the God. When anybody makes the claim that there literally exists only one god, it is clear to those of us who have read the scriptures, that that person clearly hasn't.   Paul said there are many gods, both in heaven and on earth.  Was he lying?  If not, then who are some of these gods in heaven? Hi Mike, You do understand that metaphors are used in Scripture, right Mike? The term “God of gods” is a metaphor meaning “God over all”, that does not mean there is more than one God. To say there is is to violate Isaiah 44:8. Is there 'a God' beside me? yea, there is 'no God'; I know not any. (Isa 44:8) You can't just sweep this verse under the rug Mike. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

Isa 44:6 “This is what the LORD says—
Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.
Isa 44:7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people,
and what is yet to come—
yes, let him foretell what will come.
Isa 44:8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”

Isa 44:9 All who make idols are nothing,
and the things they treasure are worthless.
Those who would speak up for them are blind;
they are ignorant, to their own shame.
Isa 44:10 Who shapes a god and casts an idol,
which can profit him nothing?

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,22:18)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 14 2013,02:11) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,19:19) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 13 2013,23:50) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 13 2013,12:47) Hi Kerwin, Here is the Textus Receptus: http://bibledatabase.net/html/stephanos_1550/index.htm And Here is the Strong's Concordance: http://biblesuite.com/strongs.htm Eloheem does not have the identical meaning as “God” does in English. The word Eloheem means Angels, Judges, magistrates, god's and “God”                            “God” in English ONLY means GOD. Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (in the AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever. Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue(that is English) will he speak to this people. 1Cor.14:27 (AKJV) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two(Hebrew, Aramaic), or at the most by three(Greek), and that by course; [and let one (“AKJV Bible”) translate]. The “AKJV Bible” we have today was no accident, it's exactly the way GOD wanted it! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed J, Actually I think god has more meanings than you think as Jimi Hendrix is called a guitar god. Even the KJV uses god so as it cannot be avoided in some cases: John 10:35 King James Version (KJV) 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Hi Kerwin, You confuse the word “godfather” with God. Jimi Hendrix is the godfather of acid rock; not a god at all; did you think he was? What you are doing is what the trins do with the word “Person”. The dictionary will reflect any usage of a word over time. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed J. I looked up the word god on the Merriam-Webster site and that is one example they gave.  Jimmie Hendrix is god of guitar in a manner of speaking; he is not Yahweh.  No one with knowledge would confuse the two, even though both can be called god. And “a Person” is also a member of “The Trinity”, did you know that?

Ed J.

That is what Trinitarians claim about both theos and elohim as well.

Never the less, I have pointed out English uses God much like Hebrew uses Elohim and Ancient Greek uses Theos.

I know the difference between calling the one Yahweh has set aside for his own God and calling Yawheh himself God just like I know the difference between calling Jimmie Hendrix a god and Yawheh God.  Jimmie Hendrix is not a god like Yawheh is God, neither is Jesus, the angels, nor anyone else.

[Ed J]

Hi Kerwin,

The logic is circular.

You can't use a definition to prove a point,
when the definition came about because of the point.

They've been saying the Holy Spirit is a person for centuries,
so that is how (Link 3a) THAT definition the word “person” came about. 

Then they try to prove he is because of the definition
that came about ONLY because of their incorrect usage of the word.

The same applies to your use of the word “God”.
Certainly you can see what I'm saying, right?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[2besee]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2013,03:33)

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 13 2013,02:35) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 12 2013,04:26) Now if Jesus said “only” then that means there are no others…….. Amen Gene, I agree Mike with Gene. Good points. But then you make a dilemma for yourself, 2B, because you've already acknowledged in this thread the fact that Jesus IS called “god” in a few scripturres. Your agreement with Gene's post would mean that you consider your Lord and Savior to be a “false god”. What now?

Hi Mike.

I do not usually say the word “God” when I pray so this is not a problem for me. I say “Father” or “Lord”.

When speaking or writing, then when I say or write “God” then I am usually always referring to the Father but sometimes I am referring to Jesus because Jesus is working on behalf of God the Father, so to me that is okay to say.

Where the problem comes into it is if you are talking or writing to a Trinitarian. They will think that “God” is always Jesus.

There are many 'so called gods' separate from the Father (the only true God) and Jesus who together (now) it seems. But people make them their gods.

[2besee]

Let me correct that last line so that it makes more sense…

There are many 'so called gods' separate from the Father who is the only true God with Jesus who now works with God the father in authority and can also rightly be called God (remember the stories in the OT where Angels were also called YHVH).

But, people make other things their gods (Zeus, the Sun, the Moon, their house, material things, them-self! etc).

So, though there are many so called Gods, to us there is only one true God and Jesus Christ.

[2besee]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2013,03:56)

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 13 2013,03:12) Mike, I will definitely go with “Son”. Okay 2B.  You prefer “son”, and Ed prefers “son”.  Kerwin is undecided, and I believe either word fits the context just fine. So let's just go with “son” for now. Your understanding is that John was writing about the Word of God from verse 1 all the way up to verse 16, and then in verse 17, John abruptly stops talking about the Word, and begins talking about Jesus. I want to examine that for a brief minute: John 1 16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. The word “for”, that I bolded above, is the Greek word “hoti”, which means: 1) that, because, since – according to NETNotes. Let me re-write the words of that passage, leaving out the part about Moses and the Law, and using the meaning of “since” for the word “for”: From the fullness of his (the Word's) grace we have all received one blessing after another, since grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.   This is how I understand the passage.  And since I understand the passage this way, I can't see the reason you've decided that John has stopped talking about one subject, and has begun to talk about a different one.  To me, it seems clear enough that the grace in verse 16 and the grace in verse 17 belong to the same person. Your thoughts?

Hi Mike,
For me I don't have a problem with it because I see the Word of God (God's Logos) being clothed in flesh (Being IN Jesus) so I can understand the wording of the whole chapter as meaning the Word and Jesus (the man) at the same time.

I see in a way Jesus (the flesh) and the Word as being one…

I can understand 'Son of God' to mean both Jesus the Son of Man and the Spirit the Son of God.

Flesh gives birth to flesh and Spirit gives birth to Spirit.

[2besee]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 14 2013,02:14)

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 13 2013,20:19) Hi Ed, To me, the RSV is one of the most accurate translations that we have. I have compared many verses and seen the difference, and I trust my RSV. NOT the KJV, not from what I have been shown. The NKJV is a continuation of the KJV is it not? Hi Wakeup, NO, the NKJV is yet another perversion of God's word.  (Link) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Well which bible do you follow?

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