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Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 29 2012,14:24) To all, I am filling ill. Since my immune system is compromised any illness can be serious. Hopefully it turns out to be nothing. I plan on posting in the future, the Lord willing.
Hi Kerwin, Hope that you will be okay.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 29 2012,03:16) If you listen very closely you can tell when God the Father is speaking or when Jesus is. , I have mentioned this before to you, remember when God the Father spoke these word through Jesus, “Jerusalem O Jerusalem, you that killed the prophets and stoned those sent unto you, how often would I (God the FATHER) would have gathered you, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you would not, therefore your house is left unto you desolate , you will no longer see me until you say, blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord”. Mike, that was God, not Jesus Speaking those word through Jesus' mouth.
Gene, I agree with this. That was God the Father IMO.Quote (jammin @ Dec. 29 2012,14:17) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 29 2012,06:21) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 28 2012,11:21) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 27 2012,20:46) Hi Jammin, Is Jesus the sword of the spirit?
1. Yes
2. No
give mt the verse and ill tell you my answer
Hi Jammin,At least you admit that you don't know.
God bless
Ed J
did i say i do not know?? do you know how to read??i said give me the verse. you know why im asking you the verse? bec i want to correct your false interpretation just like what you are doing in john 1.1
Hi Jammin,If you knew the meaning of this verse:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.…you wouldn't be confused by what the traditions of men have taught you.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi All,
I was considering the words of Jesus.
It is clear that he is speaking from a Son's perspective of his Father, and on behalf of his Father, though He also said that the Father was IN Him.I can understand this as the Son….. being the Holy Spirit which was in Jesus and speaking through Him.
I can also understand that the Holy Spirit is God (The Spirit of God)
(Who knows the thoughts of God….. but the Spirit that is in Him)Anyway, here is Jesus' words only, in red, and only to do with the topic.
I still have a bit to do, and I will post that afterward.
Something to keep as a reference anyway.JBPhilips.
What Jesus was Recorded as Saying – the New Testament with His Words in Red.http://www.ccel.org/bible/phillips/JBPRed.htm
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“Believe me,” returned Jesus, “a man cannot even see the kingdom of God without being born again.”
“And how can a man who's getting old possibly be born?” replied Nicodemus. “How can he go back into his mother's womb and be born a second time?”
“I assure you,” said Jesus,“that unless a man is born from water and from spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Flesh gives birth to flesh and spirit gives birth to spirit: you must not be surprised that I told you that all of you must be born again. The wind blows where it likes, you can hear the sound of it but you have no idea where it comes from and where it goes. Nor can you tell how a man is born by the wind of the Spirit.”
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“No one has ever been up to Heaven except the Son of Man who came down from Heaven. The Son of Man must be lifted above the heads of men – as Moses lifted up that serpent in the desert – so that any man who believes in him may have eternal life. For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that every one who believes in him shall not be lost, but should have eternal life. You must understand that God has not sent his Son into the world to pass sentence upon it, but to save it – through him. Any man who believes in him is not judged at all. It is the one who will not believe who stands already condemned, because he will not believe in the character of God's only Son. This is the judgment – that light has entered the world and men have preferred darkness to light because their deeds are evil. Anybody who does wrong hates the light and keeps away from it, for fear his deeds may be exposed. But anybody who is living by the truth will come to the light to make it plain that all he has done has been done through God.”
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“Believe me,” returned Jesus, “the time is coming when worshipping the Father will not be a matter of 'on this hill-side' or 'in Jerusalem'. Nowadays you are worshipping with your eyes shut. We Jews are worshipping with our eyes open, for the salvation of mankind is to come from our race. Yet the time is coming, yes, and has already come, when true worshippers will worship in spirit and in reality. Indeed, the Father looks for men who will worship him like that. God is spirit, and those who worship him can only worship in spirit and in reality.”
“Of course I know that Messiah is coming,” returned the woman, “you know, the one who is called Christ. When he comes he will make everything plain to us.”
“I am Christ speaking to you now,” said Jesus.
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Jesus said to them, “My food is doing the will of him who sent me and finishing the work he has given me. Don't you say, 'Four months more and then comes the harvest'? But I tell you to open your eyes and look to the field – they are gleaming white, all ready for the harvest! The reaper is already being rewarded and getting in a harvest for eternal life, so that both sower and reaper may be glad together. For in this harvest the old saying comes true, 'One man sows and another reaps.' I have sent you to reap a harvest for which you never laboured; other men have worked hard and you have reaped the results of their labours.”
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Jesus said to them, ”I assure you that the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. What the Son does is always modelled on what the Father does, for the Father loves the Son and shows him everything that he does himself, Yes, and he will show him even greater things than these to fill you with wonder. For just as th
Jesus said to them, “My food is doing the will of him who sent me and finishing the work he has given me. Don't you say, 'Four months more and then comes the harvest'? But I tell you to open your eyes and look to the field – they are gleaming white, all ready for the harvest! The reaper is already being rewarded and getting in a harvest for eternal life, so that both sower and reaper may be glad together. For in this harvest the old saying comes true, 'One man sows and another reaps.' I have sent you to reap a harvest for which you never laboured; other men have worked hard and you have reaped the results of their labours.”
———————–
Jesus said to them, “I assure you that the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. What the Son does is always modelled on what the Father does, for the Father loves the Son and shows him everything that he does himself, Yes, and he will show him even greater things than these to fill you with wonder. For just as the Father raises the dead and makes them live, so does the Son give life to any man he chooses. The Father is no man's judge: he has put judgment entirely into the Son's hands, so that all men may honour the Son equally with the Father. The man who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him. I solemnly assure you that the man who hears what I have to say and believes in the one who has sent me has eternal life. He does not have to face judgment; he has already passed from death into life. Yes, I assure you that a time is coming, in fact has already come, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and when they have heard it they will live! For just as the Father has life in himself, so by the Father's gift, the Son also has life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is Son of Man. No, do not be surprised – the time is coming when all those who are dead and buried will hear his voice and out they will come – those who have done right will rise again to life, but those who have done wrong will rise to face judgment!
“By myself I can do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is true because I do not live to please myself but to do the will of the Father who sent me. You may say that I am bearing witness about myself, that therefore what I say about myself has no value, but I would remind you that there is one who witnesses about me and I know that his witness about me is absolutely true. You sent to John, and he testified to the truth. Not that it is man's testimony that I accept – I only tell you this to help you to be saved. John certainly was a lamp that burned and shone, and for a time you were willing to enjoy the light that he gave. But I have a higher testimony than John's. The work that the Father gave me to complete, yes, these very actions which I do are my witness that the Father has sent me. This is how the Father who has sent me has given his own personal testimony to me.
“Now you have never at any time heard what he says or seen what he is like. Nor do you really believe his word in your hearts, for you refuse to believe the man who he has sent. You pore over the scriptures for you imagine that you will find eternal life in them. And all the time they give their testimony to me! But you are not willing to come to me to have real life! Men's approval or disapproval means nothing to me, but I can tell that you have none of the love of God in your hearts. I have come in the name of my Father and you will not accept me. Yet if another man comes simply in his own name, you will accept him. How on earth can you believe while you are for ever looking for each other's approval and not for the glory that comes from the one God? There is no need for you to think that I have come to accuse you before the Father. You already have an accuser – Moses, in whom you put all your confidence! For if you really believed Moses, you would be bound to believe me; for is was about me that he wrote. But if you do not believe what he wrote, how can you believe what I say”?
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“The work of God for you,” replied Jesus, “is to believe in the one whom he has sent to you.”
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To which Jesus replied, “Yes, but what matters is not that Moses gave you bread from Heaven, but that my Father is giving you the true bread from Heaven. For the bread of God which comes down from Heaven gives life to the world.”
Then Jesus said to them, “I myself am the bread of life. The man who comes to me will never be hungry and the man who believes in me will never again be thirsty. Yet I have told you that you have seen me and do not believe. Everything that my Father gives me will come to me and I will never refuse anyone who comes to me. For I have come down from Heaven, not to do what I want, but to do the will of him who sent me. The will of him who sent me is that I should not lose anything of what he has given me, but should raise it up when the last day comes. And this is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son and trusts in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up when the last day comes.”
So Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. Nobody comes to me unless he is drawn to me by the Father who sent me, and I will raise him up when the last day comes. In the prophets it is written -'And they shall all be taught by God,' and this means that everybody who has heard the Father's voice and learned from him will come to me. Not that anyone has ever seen the Father except the one who comes from God – he has seen the Father. I assure you that the man who trusts in him has eternal life already. I myself am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate manna in the desert, and they died. This is bread that comes down from Heaven, so that a man may eat it and not die. I myself am the living bread which came down from Heaven, and if anyone eats this bread he will live for ever. The bread which I will give is my body and I shall give it for the life of the world.”
So Jesus said to them, “Unless you do eat the body of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you are not really living at all. The man who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up when the last day comes. For my body is real food and my blood is real drink. The man who eats my body and drinks my blood shares my life and I share his. Just as the living Father sent me and I am alive because of the Father, so the man who lives on me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from Heaven! It is not like the manna which your forefathers used to eat, and died. The man who eats this bread will live for ever.”
Then Jesus, knowing intuitively that his disciples were complaining about what he had just said, went on, “Is this too much for you? Then what would happen if you were to see the Son of Man going up to the place where he was before? It is the Spirit which gives life. The flesh will not help you. The things which I have told you are spiritual and are life. But some of you will not believe me.”
For Jesus knew from the beginning which of his followers did not trust him and who was the man who would betray him. Then he added, “This is why I said to you, 'No one can come to me unless my Father puts it into his heart to come.'”
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“The work of God for you,” replied Jesus, “is to believe in the one whom he has sent to you.”
Jesus replied to them, “My teaching is not really mine but comes from the one who sent me. If anyone wants to do God's will, he will know whether my teaching is from God or whether I merely speak on my own authority. A man who speaks on his own authority has an eye for his own reputation. But the man who is considering the glory of God who sent him is a true man. There can be no dishonesty about him.——————
Then Jesus, in the middle of his teaching, called out in the Temple, “So you know me and know where I have come from? But I have not come of my own accord; I am sent by one who is true and you do not know him! I do know him, because I come from him and he has sent me here.”
The Pharisees heard the crowd whispering these things about him, and they and the chief priests (of the Temple) sent officers to arrest him. Then Jesus said, “I shall be with you only a little while longer and then I am going to him who sent me. You will look for me then but you will never find me. You cannot come where I shall be.”
Then, on the last day, the climax of the festival, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If any man is thirsty, he can come to me and drink! The man who believes in me, as the scripture says, will have rivers of living water flowing from his inmost heart.” (Here he was speaking about the Spirit which those who believe in him would receive. The Holy Spirit had not yet been given because Jesus had not yet been glorified.) When they heard these words, some of the people were saying, “This really is the Prophet.” Others said, “This is Christ!” But some said, “And does Christ come from Galilee? Don't the scriptures say that Christ will be descended from David, and will come from Bethlehem, the village where David lived?”
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Later, Jesus spoke to the people again and said,“I am the light of the world. The man who follows me will never walk in the dark but will live his life in the light.”
This made the Pharisees say to him, “You are testifying to yourself – your evidence is not valid.”
Jesus answered, “Even if I am testifying to myself, my evidence is valid, for I know where I have come from and I know where I am going. But as for you, you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. You are judging by human standards, but I am not judging anyone. Yet if I should judge, my decision would be just, for I am not alone – the Father who sent me is with me. In your Law, it is stated that the witness of two persons is valid. I am one testifying to myself and the second witness to me is the Father who sent me.”
“And where is this father of yours?” they replied. “You do not know my Father,” returned Jesus, “any more than you know me: if you had known me, you would have known him.”
Jesus made these statements while he was teaching in the Temple treasury. Yet no one arrested him, for his time had not yet come.
Later, Jesus spoke to them again and said, “I am going away and you will try to find me, but you will die in your sins. You cannot come where I am going.”
This made the Jews say, “Is he going to kill himself, then? Is that why he says, “You cannot come where I am going'?”
“The difference between us,” Jesus said to them, “is that you come from below and I am from above. You belong to this world but I do not. That is why I told you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am who I am, you will die in your sins.”
Then they said, “Who are you?” “I am what I have told you I was from the beginning,” replied Jesus. “There is much in you that I could speak about and condemn. But he who sent me is true and I am only speaking to this world what I myself have heard from him.”
They did not realise that he was talking to them about the Father. So Jesus resumed, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will realise that I am who I say I am, and that I do nothing on my own authority but speak simply as my Father has taught me. The one who sent me is with me now: the Father has never left me alone for I always do what pleases him.” And even while he said these words, many people believed in him.
Jesus returned, “Believe me when I tell you that every man who commits sin is a slave. For a slave is no permanent part of a household, but a son is. If the Son, then, sets you free, you are really free! I know that you are descended from Abraham, but some of you are looking for a way to kill me because you can't bear my words. I am telling you what I have seen in the presence of my Father, and you are doing what you have seen in the presence of your father.”
“Our father is Abraham!” they retorted. “If you were the children of Abraham, you would do the sort of things Abraham did. But in fact, at this moment, you are looking for a way to kill me, simply because I am a man who has told you the truth that I have heard from God. Abraham would never have done that. No, you are doing your father's work.” “We are not illegitimate!” they retorted. “We have one Father – God.”
“If God were really your Father,” replied Jesus, “you would have loved me. For I came from God, and I am here. I did not come of my own accord – he sent me, and I am here. Why do you not understand my words? It is because you cannot hear what I am really saying. Your father is the devil, and what you are wanting to do is what your father longs to do. He always was a murderer, and has never dealt with the truth, since the truth will have nothing to do with him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks in character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. And it is because I speak the truth that you will not believe me. Which of you can prove me guilty of sin? If I am speaking the truth, why is it that you do not believe me? The man who is born of God can hear these words of God and the reason why you cannot hear the words of God is simply this, that you are not the sons of God.”
“How right we are,” retorted the Jews, “in calling you a Samaritan, and mad at that!”
“No,” replied Jesus, “I am not mad. I am honouring my Father and you are trying to dishonour me. But I am not concerned with my own glory: there is one whose concern it is, and he is the true judge. Believe me when I tell you that if anybody accepts my words, he will never see death at all.”
“Now we know that you're mad,” replied the Jews. “Why, Abraham died and the prophets, too, and yet you say, 'If a man accepts my words, he will never experience death!' Are you greater than our father, Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets – who are you making yourself out to be?”
“If I were trying to glorify myself,” returned Jesus, “such glory would be worthless. But it is my Father who glorifies me, the very one whom you say is your God – though you have never known him. But I know him, and if I said I did not know him, I should be as much a liar as you are! But I do know him and I am faithful to what he says. As for your father, Abraham, his great joy was that he would see my coming. Now he has seen it and he is overjoyed.”
“Look,” said the Jews to him, “you are not fifty yet, and has Abraham seen you?”
“I tell you in solemn truth,” returned Jesus, ”
before there was an Abraham, I AM!”At this, they picked up stones to hurl at him, but Jesus disappeared and made his way out of the Temple.
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“He was not born blind because of his own sin or that of his parents,” returned Jesus, “but to show the power of God at work in him. We must carry on the work of him who sent me while the daylight lasts. Night is coming, when no one can work. I am the world's light as long as I am in it.”
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Then Jesus said, “Believe me when I tell you that anyone who does not enter the sheepfold though the door, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a rogue. It is the shepherd of the flock who goes in by the door. It is to him the door-keeper opens the door and it is his voice that the sheep recognise. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out of the fold, and when he has driven all his own flock outside, he goes in front of them himself, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. They will never follow a stranger – indeed, they will run away from him, for they do not recognise strange voices.”
Jesus gave them this illustration but they did not grasp the point of what he was saying to them. So Jesus said to them once more, “I do assure you that I myself am the door for the sheep. All who have gone before me are like thieves and rogues, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If a man goes in through me, he will be safe and sound; he can come in and out and find his food. The thief comes with the sole intention of stealing and killing and destroying, but I came to bring them life, and far more life than before. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd will give his life for the sake of his sheep. But the hired man, who is not the shepherd, and does not own the sheep, will see the wolf coming, desert the sheep and run away. And the wolf will attack the flock and send them flying. The hired man runs away because he is only a hired man and has no interest in the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and I know those that are mine and my sheep know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father. And I am giving my life for the sake of the sheep.
“And I have other sheep who do not belong to this fold. I must lead these also, and they will hear my voice. So there will be one flock and one shepherd. This is the reason why the Father loves me – that I lay down my life, and I lay it down to take it up again! No one is taking it from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the power to lay it down and I have the power to take it up again. This is an order that I have received from my Father.”
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“I have told you,” replied Jesus, “and you do not believe it. What I have done in my Father's name is sufficient to prove my claim, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep recognise my voice and I know who they are. They follow me and I give them eternal life. They will never die and no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all. And no one can tear anything out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are One.”
Again the Jews reached for stones to stone him to death, but Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good things from the Father – for which of these do you intend to stone me?”
“We're not going to stone you for any good things,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy: because you, who are only a man, are making yourself out to be God.”
“Is it not written in your own Law,” replied Jesus, “'I have said you are gods'? And if he called these men 'gods' to whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken), can you say to the one whom the Father has consecrated and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? If I fail to do what my Father does, then do not believe me. But if I do, even though you have no faith in me personally, then believe in the things that I do. Then you may come to know and realise that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
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“I myself am the resurrection and the life,” Jesus told her. “The man who believes in me will live even though he dies, and anyone who is alive and believes in me will never die at all. Can you believe that?”
“Did I not tell you,” replied Jesus, “that if you believed, you would see the wonder of what God can do?”
Then they took the stone away and Jesus raised his eyes and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I know that you always hear me, but I have said this for the sake of these people standing here so that they may believe that you have sent me.”
And when he had said this, he called out in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!”
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Jesus told them, “The time has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. I tell you truly that unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains a single grain of wheat; but if it does, it brings a good harvest. The man who loves his own life will destroy it, and the man who hates his life in this world will preserve it for eternal life. If a man wants to enter my service, he must follow my way; and where I am, my servant will also be. And my Father will honour every man who enters my service.
“Now comes my hour of heart-break, and what can I say, 'Father, save me from this hour'? No, it was for this very purpose that I came to this hour. 'Father, honour your own name!'” At this there came a voice from Heaven, “I have honoured it and I will honour it again!”
When the crowd of bystanders heard this, they said it thundered, but some of them said, “An angel spoke to him.”
Then Jesus said, “That voice came for your sake, not for mine. Now is the time for the judgment of this world to begin, and now will the spirit that rules this world be driven out. As for me, if I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men to myself.” (He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.)
Then the crowd said, “We have heard from the Law that Christ lives for ever. How can you say that the Son of Man must be 'lifted up'? Who is this Son of Man?”
At this, Jesus said to them, “You have the light with you only a little while longer. Go on while the light is good, before the darkness come down upon you. For the man who walks in the dark has no idea where he is going. You must believe in the light while you have the light, that you may become the sons of light.”
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But later, Jesus cried aloud, “Every man who believes in me, is believing in the one who sent me; and every man who sees me is seeing the one who sent me. I have come into the world as light, so that no one who believes in me need remain in the dark. Yet, if anyone hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him – for I did not come to judge the world but to save it. Every man who rejects me and will not accept my sayings has a judge – at the last day, the very words that I have spoken will be his judge. For I have not spoken on my own authority: the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and what to speak. And I know that what he commands means eternal life. All that I say I speak only in accordance with w
hat the Father has told me.”———————–
When Jesus had washed their feet and put on his clothes, he sat down and spoke to them, “Do you realise what I have just done to you? You call me 'teacher' and 'Lord' and you are quite right, for I am your teacher and your Lord. But if I, your teacher and Lord, have washed your feet, you must be ready to wash one another's feet. I have given you this as an example so that you may do as I have done. Believe me, the servant is not greater than his master and the messenger is not greater than the man who sent him. Once you have realised these things, you will find your happiness in doing them.
Jesus spoke,“Now comes the glory of the Son of Man, and the glory of God in him! If God is glorified through him then God will glorify the Son of Man – and that without delay. Oh, my children, I am with you such a short time! You will look for me and I have to tell you as I told the Jews, 'Where I am going, you cannot follow.' Now I am giving you a new command – love one another. Just as I have loved you, so you must love one another. This is how all men will know that you are my disciples, because you have such love for one another.”
Simon Peter said to him, “Lord, where are you going?”
“I am going,” replied Jesus, “where you cannot follow now, though you will follow me later.”
“You must not let yourselves be distressed – you must hold on to your faith in God and to your faith in me. There are many rooms in my Father's House. If there were not, should I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? It is true that I am going away to prepare a place for you, but it is just as true that I am coming again to welcome you into my own home, so that you may be where I am. You know where I am going and you know the road I am going to take.”
“Lord,” Thomas remonstrated, “we do not know where you're going, and how can we know what road you're going to take?”
“I myself am the road,” replied Jesus, “and the truth and the life. No one approaches the Father except through me. If you had known who I am, you would have known my Father. From now on, you do know him and you have seen him.”
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Then Philip said to him, “Show us the Father, Lord, and we shall be satisfied.”
“Have I been such a long time with you,” returned Jesus,“without your really knowing me, Philip? The man who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The very words I say to you are not my own. It is the Father who lives in me who carries out his work through me. Do you believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? But if you cannot, then believe me because of what you see me do. I assure you that the man who believes in me will do the same things that I have done, yes, and he will do even greater things than these, for I am going away to the Father. Whatever you ask the Father in my name, I will do – that the Son may bring glory to the Father. And if you ask me anything in my name, I will grant it.
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“If you really love me, you will keep the commandments I have given you and I shall ask the Father to give you someone else to stand by you, to be with you always. I mean the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot accept, for it can neither see nor recognise that Spirit. But you recognise him, for he is with you now and will be in your hearts. I am not going to leave you alone in the world – I am coming to you. In a very little while, the world will see me no more but you will see me, because I am really alive and you will be alive too. When that day come, you will realise that I am in my Father, that you are in me, and I am in you.
“Every man who knows my commandments and obeys them is the man who really loves me, and every man who really loves me will himself be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and make myself known to him.”
Then Judas (not Iscariot), said, “Lord, how is it that you are going to make yourself known to us but not to the world?”
And to this Jesus replied, “When a man loves me, he follows my teaching. Then my Father will love him, and we will come to that man and make our home within him. The man who does not really love me will not follow my teaching. Indeed, what you are hearing from me now is not really my saying, but comes from the Father who sent me.
“I have said all this while I am still with you. But the one who is coming to stand by you, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will be your teacher and will bring to your minds all that I have said to you.
“I leave behind with you – peace; I give you my own peace and my gift is nothing like the peace of this world. You must not be distressed and you must not be daunted. You have heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you really loved me, you would be glad because I am going to my Father, for my Father is greater than I. And I have told you of it now, before it happens, so that when it does happen, your faith in me will not be shaken. I shall not be able to talk much longer to you for the spirit that rules this world is coming very close. He has no hold over me, but I go on my way to show the world that I love the Father and do what he sent me to do … Get up now! Let us leave this place.
——————-
“I am the real vine, my Father is the vine-dresser. He removes any of my branches which are not bearing fruit and he prunes every branch that does bear fruit to increase its yield. Now, you have already been pruned by my words. You must go on growing in me and I will grow in you. For just as the branch cannot bear any fruit unless it shares the life of the vine, so you can produce nothing unless you go on growing in me. I am the vine itself, you are the branches. It is the man who shares my life and whose life I share who proves fruitful. For the plain fact is that apart from me you can do nothing at all. The man who does not share my life is like a branch that is broken off and withers away. He becomes just like the dry sticks that men pick up and use for the firewood. But if you live your life in me, and my words live in your hearts, you can ask for whatever you like and it will come true for you. This is how my Father will be glorified – in your becoming fruitful and being my disciples.
“I have loved you just as the Father has loved me. You must go on living in my love. If you keep my commandments you will live in my love just as I have kept my Father's commandments and live in his love. I have told you this so that you can share my joy, and that your happiness may be complete. This is my commandment: that you love each other as I have loved you. There is no greater love than this – that a man should lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I tell you to do. I shall not call you servants any longer, for a servant does not share his master's confidence. No, I call you friends, now, because I have told you everything that I have heard from the Father.
“It is not that you have chosen me; but it is I who have chosen you. I have appointed you to go and bear fruit that will be lasting; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he will give it to you.
————–
“This I command you, love one another! If the world hates you, you know that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own. But because you do not belong to the world and I have chosen you out of it, the world will hate you. Do you remember what I said to you, 'The servant is not greater than his master'? If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you as well, but if they have followed my teaching, they will also follow yours. They will do all these things to you as my disciples because they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have been guilty of sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. The man who hates me, hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them things that no other man has ever done, they would not have been guilty of sin, but as it is they have seen and they have hated both me and my Father. Yet this only fulfils what is written in their Law – 'They hated me without a cause'.
But when the helper comes, that is, the Spirit of truth, who comes from the Father and whom I myself will send to you from the Father, he will speak plainly about me. And you yourselves will also speak plainly about me for you have been with me from the first.
————-
“I am telling you this now so that your faith in me may not be shaken. They will excommunicate you from their synagogues. Yes, the time is coming when a man who kills you will think he is thereby serving God! They will act like this because they have never had any true knowledge of the Father or of me, but I h
ave told you all this so that when the time comes for it to happen you may remember that I told you about it. I have not spoken like this to you before, because I have been with you ……”“…. but now the time has come for me to go away to the one who sent me. None of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' That is because you are so distressed at what I have told you. Yet I am telling you the simple truth when I assure you that it is a good thing for you that I should go away. For if I did not go away, the divine helper would not come to you. But if I go, then I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convince the world of the meaning of sin, of true goodness and of judgment. He will expose their sin because they do not believe in me; he will reveal true goodness for I am going away to the Father and you will see me no longer; and he will show them the meaning of judgment, for the spirit which rules this world will have been judged.
“I have much more to tell you but you cannot bear it now. Yet when that one I have spoken to you about comes – the Spirit of truth – he will guide you into everything that is true. For he will not be speaking of his own accord but exactly as he hears, and he will inform you about what is to come. He will bring glory to me for he will draw on my truth and reveal it to you. Whatever the Father possesses is also mine; that is why I tell you that he will draw on my truth and will show it to you.
————-
“In a little while you will not see me any longer, and again, in a little while you will see me.”
At this some of his disciples remarked to each other, “What is this that he tells us now, 'A little while and you will not see me, and again, in a little while you will see me' and 'for I am going away to the Father'? What is the 'little while' that he talks about?” they were saying. “We simply do not know what he means!”
Jesus knew that they wanted to ask him what he meant, so he said to them, “Are you trying to find out from each other what I meant when I said, 'In a little while you will not see me, and again, in a little while you will see me'? I tell you truly that you are going to be both sad and sorry while the world is glad. Yes, you will be deeply distressed, but your pain will turn into joy. When a woman gives birth to a child, she certainly knows pain when her time comes. Yet as soon as she has given birth to the child, she no longer remembers her agony for joy that a man has been born into the world. Now you are going through pain, but I shall see you again and your hearts will thrill with joy – the joy that no one can take away from you – and on that day you will not ask me any questions.
“I assure you that whatever you ask the Father he will give you in my name. Up to now you have asked nothing in my name; ask now, and you will receive, that your joy may be overflowing.
————–
“I have been speaking to you in parables – but the time is coming to give up parables and tell you plainly about the Father. When that time comes, you will make your requests to him in my own name, for I need make no promise to plead to the Father for you, for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God. Yes, I did come from the Father and I came into the world. Now I leave the world behind and return to the Father.”
“Now you are speaking plainly,” cried the disciples, “and are not using parables. Now we know that everything is known to you – no more questions are needed. This makes us sure that you did come from God.”
“So you believe in me now?” replied Jesus. “The time is coming, indeed, it has already come, when you will be scattered, every one of you going home and leaving me alone. Yet I am not really alone for the Father is with me. I have told you all this so that you may find your peace in me. You will find trouble in the world – but, never lose heart, I have conquered the world!”
————
When Jesus had said these words, he raised his eyes to Heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son now so that he may bring glory to you, for you have given him authority over all men to give eternal life for all that you have given to him. And this is eternal life, to know you, the only true God, and him whom you have sent – Jesus Christ.
“I have brought you honour upon earth, I have completed the task which you gave me to do. Now, Father, honour me in your own presence with the glory that I knew with you before the world was made. I have shown your self to the men whom you gave me from the world. They were your men and you gave them to me, and they have accepted your word. Now they realise that all that you have given me comes from you – and that every message that you gave me I have given them. They have accepted it all and have come to know in their hearts that I did come from you – they are convinced that you sent me.
“I am praying to you for them: I am not praying for the world but for the men whom you gave me, for they are yours – everything that is mine is yours and yours mine – and they have done me honour. Now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I am returning to you. Holy Father, keep the men you gave me by your power that they may be one, as we are one. As long as I was with them I kept them by the power that you gave me; I guarded them, and not one of them was destroyed, except the son of destruction – that the scripture might come true.
“And now I come to you and I say these things in the world that these men may find my joy completed in themselves. I have given them your word, and the world has hated them, for they are no more sons of the world than I am. I am not praying that you will take them out of the world but that you will keep them from the evil one. They are no more the sons of the world than I am – make them holy by the truth; for your word is the truth. I have sent them to the world just as you sent me to the world and I consecrate myself for their sakes that they may be made holy by the truth.
“I am not praying only for these men but for all those who will believe in me through their message, that they may all be one. Just as you, Father, live in me and I live in you, I am asking that they may live in us, that the world may believe that you did send me. I have given them the honour that you gave me, that they may be one, as we are one – I in them and you in me, that they may grow complete into one, so that the world may realise that you sent me and have loved them as you loved me. Father, I want those whom you have given me to be with me where I am; I want them to see that glory which you have made mine – for you loved me before the world began. Father of goodness and truth, the world has not known you, but I have known you and these men now know that you have sent me. I have made your self known to them and I will continue to do so that the love which you have had for me may be in their hearts – and that I may be there also.
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“My kingdom is not founded in this world – if it were, my servants would have fought to prevent my being handed over to the Jews. But in fact my kingdom is not founded on all this!”
“So you are a king, are you?” returned Pilate. “Indeed I am a king,” Jesus replied; “the reason for my birth and the reason for my coming into the world is to witness to the truth. Every man who loves truth recognises my voice.”
——————
“Why are you crying?” said Jesus to her. “Who are you looking for?”She, supposing that he was the gardener, said, “Oh, sir, if you have carried him away, p
lease tell me where you have put him and I will take him away.”Jesus said to her,“Mary!” At this she turned right round and said to him, in Hebrew, “Master!”
“No!” said Jesus,“do not hold me now. I have not yet gone up to the Father. Go and tell my brothers that I am going up to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
———–
Jesus said to them again, “Yes, peace be with you! Just as the Father sent me, so I am now going to send you.”
And then he breathed upon them and said,“Receive holy spirit. If you forgive any men's sins, they are forgiven, and if you hold them unforgiven, they are unforgiven.”
Mike,
Quote Therefore, John 1:6 and 7 could very well STILL be talking about the Word from verse 1, only calling him “light” this time – as 2B and I agree. I will try to clarify my position by using an imprecise example of a set of fruit. Let us say is a banana in the set. We can loosely state the set taste like a banana as that is one flavor of the set. In actuality set can have multiple flavors but the banana is the one I am interested in at the moment, so I do mention the other ones.
Therefore is seems to me that both John 1:6 & 7 are emphasizing the Light aspect of the Word.
You cannot speak of a part without speaking of the whole to which it belongs so functionally seems something in what you concluded.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 29 2012,06:27) Therefore is seems to me that both John 1:6 & 7 are emphasizing the Light aspect of the Word.
Hi Kerwin,May God grace you with a quick recovery.
As for your quote above, I consider that close enough to continue with the knowledge that all of us, so far, agree that “the Word”, or at least “aspects OF the Word”, are still the subject of John's teaching.
Gene, I skimmed your manifesto, and it is all fine and good except for we are getting ahead of ourselves again. Right now, I'm just trying to get agreement on the fact that John's teaching in John 1 remains to be about the Word he mentioned in verse 1.
Wakeup, I also read your post, and hope you will offer your agreement on the exercise that is being done here. So far, it seems we are all in agreement that verses 2-9 (with the exception of verse 6, which introduces John the Baptist) have as their subject “the Word of God” from verse 1.
For this exercise, we are pretending that none us know who or what that “Word” is yet.
So far, 2B, I, and Kerwin all agree that John is teaching about the same subject (the Word) up until verse 9. How about you, Wakeup? Gene? Ed?
Moving on…………….
John 1:10 NIV
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.Is John STILL talking about the Word from verse 1?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 29 2012,12:24) To all, I am filling ill. Since my immune system is compromised any illness can be serious. Hopefully it turns out to be nothing. I plan on posting in the future, the Lord willing.
Kerwin……..Brother I have ask our Lord to help you brother.peace and love to you and Yours Brother………………………gene
Mike…….What you are really trying to do is to disconnect the Word from GOD as not being united as one and the same, Lets be honest here Mike. It will not work becasue a Word is never a PERSON it is an “INTELLEGENT UTTERANCE” of or from A PERSON , God and His word are one and the same thing Mike.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………..gene
Let's DO be honest here, Gene. You are AFRAID of my exercise, because you are AFRAID to get “tied down” to your own words.
Like I've repeatedly said, I am not yet making any claim about who or what this Word was. I am not yet arguing that it WASN'T the utterance of God. I am not yet arguing that it WASN'T, as the utterance of God, God Himself.
I am merely trying to find out if we all have the common sense to understand that John is STILL talking about the very same Word he mentioned in verse 1, all the way up to verse 10 (so far).
Is he?
Gene, if you are AFRAID to answer simple questions honestly, then how sure can you be of your doctrine? Every verse I list, you are going overboard to “nip it in the bud”. You are immediately putting your spin on how and why this is this, and that is that. You will have plenty of time to declare YOUR understanding, as I will mine.
But for right now, I'm only interested in finding out if we all agree John is still talking about the same subject.
MikeB.
I believe so;John 1:1–18. is about the word of God.
Lets not ignore Jesus words,luke 10:22. no man knows the son or the father,but he that the son will reveal him.
It is up to Jesus who he will give understanding of the word.
But seeking we must.wakeup.
Good to know, Wakeup. But I still want to take this one verse at a time – so I can try to figure out where common sense gives way to personal doctrines.
It is noted that you are in agreement up to verse 10.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 30 2012,04:11) Good to know, Wakeup. But I still want to take this one verse at a time – so I can try figure out where common sense gives way to personal doctrines. It is noted that you are in agreement up to verse 10.
Mike B.Yes,I agree.
Mike……….Yes John is talking about GOD the Father, he is referencing both GOD's Word and God's SPIRIT, (intellect) 0r (light) All these things are referencing GOD ONLY. But he is not just singeling out the Word if that is what you are meaning Mike.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………gene
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