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Ed J,
Two things which deceivers can do, and how to tell them according to John:
1a) Deny that Jesus was flesh and bone like we are, 1b) Deny that Jesus will return in the flesh.
2) Deny the Father and Son.Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,20:21) Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,18:19) Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,18:10) No, it's the Christian that denies the flesh.
“walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1)
“That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Rom 8:4)
Ed J,
You mean to say that you don't understand what “flesh” means in that scripture?Ed J,
I
The flesh in verses like that are in regards to the ways of the world – the worries and problems – the going against God – doing our own will – sinning. That's what it means. Don't take it literal.
Our bodies are still clothed in this flesh, are they not?Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,18:34) Quote (2besee @ June 02 2013,15:26) T, most believers believe that Jesus will return in the same way that he left and that is as flesh and bone. See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself, Jesus said, Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.
Hi 2Besee,The Jews thought Jesus was going to physically reign as a man king as well. Looks like you share in their error.
“When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force,
to make him 'a man king', he departed again into a mountain (MT ZION) himself alone.” (John 6:15)“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.” (Hebrews 13:8)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
False prophets gave dates for Jesus' return, and when that day came and went, they then went on to say that Jesus DID return – in the spirit! deceivers.Quote (2besee @ June 02 2013,18:44) Ed J, Two things which deceivers can do, and how to tell them according to John:
1a) Deny that Jesus was flesh and bone like we are, 1b) Deny that Jesus will return in the flesh.
2) Deny the Father and Son.
Hi 2Besee,Please give Scriptural references for 1B.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (2besee @ June 02 2013,18:48) Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,20:21) Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,18:19) Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,18:10) No, it's the Christian that denies the flesh.
“walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1)
“That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Rom 8:4)
Ed J,
You mean to say that you don't understand what “flesh” means in that scripture?
Hi 2Besee,'Flesh' refers to the carnal mind.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMy posts continued…
And that is one of the ways we can tell the deceivers which come to us in SHEEP CLOTHING but inwardly are RAVENOUS WOLVES. These type of teachers will take us far away from God, deceivers who think after the flesh. Bold and willful or often appearing as if an angel of light.Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,21:09) Quote (2besee @ June 02 2013,18:44) Ed J, Two things which deceivers can do, and how to tell them according to John:
1a) Deny that Jesus was flesh and bone like we are, 1b) Deny that Jesus will return in the flesh.
2) Deny the Father and Son.
Hi 2Besee,Please give Scriptural references for 1B.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,
I looked into the word come/coming in the flesh.Quote (terraricca @ June 02 2013,09:13) Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2013,07:23) Quote (terraricca @ June 02 2013,07:05) Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2013,06:26) Mike, Quote “Spiritual body” doesn't say one word about flesh. There is no scripture that says spirits who dwell in heaven, like angels, have “spiritual FLESH” bodies. And there ARE at least two teachings in scripture (one of them from Jesus himself) that make it clear that flesh cannot enter or inherit the kingdom of God. I have a body and it is flesh. My current body is not Spiritual for it is strives with the Spirit. There is a flesh body that does not strive with the Spirit. The two flesh bodies are not the same, even as Paul wrote “all flesh is not the same” and gave examples that all bodies are not the same.
Quote And the reason Paul said all flesh is not the same was to give an example to his teaching that all BODIES are not the same. I see it as the opposite as not all bodies are flesh but all flesh are bodies. If Paul wanted to make the exclusive point that all bodies are not the same then instead of going misleading subset of bodies he simply could have stated “all bodies are not the same”.
——-
In 2 Corinthians Paul declares he is not sure whether flesh did not enter heaven while previously he was sure flesh and blood could not inherit the kingdom of God. It is clear that flesh can enter heaven or at the the least Paul does not know whether it can or not it can at a time as late as the second letter to the Corinthians. Both Jesus' words in John and Paul's in 1st Corinthians come before Paul's words in 2nd Corinthians.
KerwinQuote It is clear that flesh can enter heaven Christ says that the flesh stands for nothing ;it is men that follows the rudiments of the flesh ;the body of men contains two things 1) a flesh bone structure,and a spiritual soul what is also called THE SPIRIT OF MEN, and Jesus said that we have to free our selves from corruption but the flesh his corrupted at birth by the world in which we live,so it is the spirit our soul that we have to look for and make it according to Christ ,and love God and his son above all things even our body or live ,do you understand this
the flesh body will not save us under any condition
T,Flesh is subject to corruption until it is freed, Romans 8:20-21.
Flesh is but a tent for the soul and does not teach anyone righteousness, 2 Corinthians 5:1. The Spirit teach all righteousness, John 14:26.
The body is flesh, bone, and blood and the soul dwells within.
Kerwinso now you know that flesh does not enter the heaven,RIGHT
T,Paul is not aware of that or he would have known that a certain man entered heaven out of body and not in. How are you more certain than him?
Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,21:26) Yea, and… ?
Flesh which we have now – of course it can't go into heaven. But if it is changed, then why couldn't it? It can adapt to different changes as it goes up and as it comes down – much like the Praying Mantis in my room who changed from bright green to pale cream which was the color of the wall!
An astronaut can survive when he puts on his MANMADE space suit – so do you doubt that God cannot clothe us in something BETTER?
How do you think some will survive the coming fire, if you know about that? Did the three men in the pit of fire in Daniel turn into spirits to survive the flames? NO, they did not. It says that their FLESH was not burnt, so, like the resurrected Jesus, they weren't ghosts!False prophets have dates and when that date never comes, they said that Jesus DID return in SPIRIT, and then they change everything else to fit in with that initial lie.
Ed, were you influenced by the JWs or Mormons out something??
Quote (2besee @ June 03 2013,00:36) Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2013,21:26) Yea, and… ?
Flesh which we have now – of course it can't go into heaven. But if it is changed, then why couldn't it? It can adapt to different changes as it goes up and as it comes down – much like the Praying Mantis in my room who changed from bright green to pale cream which was the color of the wall!
An astronaut can survive when he puts on his MANMADE space suit – so do you doubt that God cannot clothe us in something BETTER?
How do you think some will survive the coming fire, if you know about that? Did the three men in the pit of fire in Daniel turn into spirits to survive the flames? NO, they did not. It says that their FLESH was not burnt, so, like the resurrected Jesus, they weren't ghosts!False prophets have dates and when that date never comes, they said that Jesus DID return in SPIRIT, and then they change everything else to fit in with that initial lie.
Ed, were you influenced by the JWs or Mormons out something??
2besee……..Good point, those flesh bodies cast into the fire did not burn nor was a hair singed on them, and they were flesh bodies , also God said, Adam could have lived forever had he eaten of the tree of life. Not to mention Jesus after he was reserected, went through a door, and appeared and disappeared, and was raised in that body into the heavens also. Also Phillip was carred away afTer baptizing the eunuch .Many “profess God, but deny the POWER thereof.”
Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2013,15:29) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2013,09:20) Kerwin, are all BEINGS created? Is God?
Mike,All beings with either a heavenly or earthly body are created. God is not created and does not have a body.
Kerwin,Are you unable to directly answer a question anymore? I have grown so tired of you and Abe and Gene and jammin these days.
All of you refuse to answer simple questions, and it is frustrating.
See if you can answer this simple question:
Is God a being? YES or NO?
Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2013,18:26) In 2 Corinthians Paul declares he is not sure whether flesh did not enter heaven while previously he was sure flesh and blood could not inherit the kingdom of God.
WRONG! Paul did NOT say anything at all about this man's body being flesh, Kerwin. He does many times teach how our bodies will be TRANSFORMED from flesh to spiritual.So his comment means that he doesn't know whether this man (most commentators think “the man” was Paul himself) actually had his body transformed into a spiritual body, and was then taken to heaven………. OR if all the things the man saw were simply visions in his head as he himself remained in his flesh body on earth. Ie: He doesn't know whether he was PHYSICALLY there (in a body other than flesh), or if it was all a vision in his head.
I pray that some day God opens your eyes to see what you do on a daily basis. You fixate on what you WANT the scriptures to teach, and then go to absurd and nonsensical lengths to convince other people that the scriptures actually teach this nonsense you've invented.
There is NO such thing as “spiritual flesh”, Kerwin. Spirit and flesh are always at odds with each other in the scriptures. They are always antonyms. So the entire premise of your made up claim of “spiritual flesh” is flawed right from the jump. Yet you can't see this. And do you know WHY you can't see it? Let me tell you:
1. You WANT Jesus to have been nothing but a human being, and so twist many scriptures to force them into teaching this desire of yours.
2. You WANT Jesus (for some very odd reason) to REMAIN the one and only flesh being who dwells in the completely spiritual realm of heaven, and so have INVENTED a thing called “spiritual flesh” so your desire can be fulfilled in your own mind.
Kerwin, both of these are not only very odd, but they are completely unscriptural.
There are at least 50 scriptures that speak of the pre-existence of Jesus, yet any sensible person should be able to figure it out with just two:
1. Phil 2 CLEARLY says Jesus WAS existing in the form of God, but then emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being. And what is YOUR take on this? You oddly imagine that Jesus was already a human being before he was “made into the likeness of a human being”. What?
2. John 1 CLEARLY describes Jesus as the one called “the Word”, and CLEARLY says that this particular Word who was with God in the beginning became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son. For Christ's sake, Kerwin, John even goes as far as to illustrate how John the Baptist came to testify about this very Word – and we know from many CLEAR scriptures that John the Baptist was sent to testify about NONE OTHER THAN Jesus Christ.
But you don't WANT this to be what the scriptures teach, and so you have INVENTED a “Holy Spirit Son of God” who somehow “became flesh” and was the one John the Baptist testified about. What?
I have been arguing about the trinity and related issues with Kathi for over three years on this site. And although it's painfully clear that she often must read things into the scriptures for her own dream to be fulfilled, she is at least using SCRIPTURES! But not you. You INVENT crap that isn't even IN any scripture…… like “spiritual flesh” and a “Holy Spirit Son of God”.
Look, I have recently walked away from jammin because it is always the same old UNSCRIPTURAL crap coming out of his mouth. He searches high and low for purposely flawed translations that say what he WANTS the scriptures to say, and then presents them to us as if they are some kind of “proof” or something. And when we point out that the Greek or Hebrew text doesn't even say what his translators wrote, it's like we're talking to a brick wall, and he can't hear us.
It has become the same with you. Like jammin's translators, you have taken up INVENTING your own words and theories that you think the scriptures SHOULD BE teaching, and then throw those made up theories at us as if they are some kind of “proof” or something. But just like in the case of jammin's twisted translations, they are NOT proof of anything – except how far you are willing to go to make the scriptures teach what you WANT them to teach.
Now I'm going to try this one more time from a simple angle – one you should be able to comprehend:
John 3
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
1. WHAT, according to Jesus, gives birth to flesh?
2. And can those who ARE born of flesh enter the kingdom of God?
3. Or must those who are born of flesh be born AGAIN – of something OTHER THAN flesh – in order to enter the kingdom of God?
4. And what does spirit give birth to? Does it say “spiritual FLESH”? Or does it say “spirit”?
Think long and hard on these things, Kerwin. I will most likely not be addressing any more of your posts unless they have a shred of scriptural support. I've simply grown tired of scripturally fighting against man's invented doctrines. When you are able to show SCRIPTURES for your claims, I might again become interested in discussing them.
Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2013,19:02) Unlike Seth's line which Scripture starts with God, Cain's line starts with Cain.
Really? This is the crap I'm talking about, Kerwin. Are you REALLY suggesting that Cain WASN'T the son of Adam, who was the son of God? You can't REALLY be suggesting such a thing, can you? Genesis 4:1
Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth a man.”Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2013,19:23) Flesh is but a tent for the soul………….
2 Corinthians 5
1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
The flesh tent in which we now dwell was metaphorically “built by human hands”. (See John 3: “flesh gives birth to flesh”.)
We do not look forward to being unclothed, but to being clothed with a new heavenly dwelling that is NOT built by human hands………….. ie: NOT flesh.
Quote (2besee @ June 01 2013,22:26) T, most believers believe that Jesus will return in the same way that he left and that is as flesh and bone.
2B,Enlightened people believe that Jesus will return the same way that he left, and that is “ON THE CLOUDS”.
Quote (2besee @ June 02 2013,01:13) Ed, No, it is you, Mike, T, and any other deceiver.
2B,Once again you are confused. Ed, T, and I all believe that Jesus CAME in the flesh.
It is you and Gene and Kerwin and other deceivers who DON'T believe Jesus CAME in the flesh. Instead, you guys believe Jesus has never been anything OTHER THAN flesh.
See the difference?
Quote (2besee @ June 02 2013,01:44) Ed J, Two things which deceivers can do, and how to tell them according to John:
1a) Deny that Jesus was flesh and bone like we are, 1b) Deny that Jesus will return in the flesh.
2) Deny the Father and Son.
#2 is correct.#1 is wrong on both counts. We are not to accept that Jesus HAS ALWAYS BEEN flesh, but that he CAME in the flesh. Nor is there any teaching that says Jesus will “return in the flesh”. That is simply YOUR misunderstanding of the words in Acts 1:11.
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